The ins and outs of living in Thailand

[webfact]

Phuket Opinion:
The ins and outs of living in Thailand
Jody Houton

PHUKET: -- Many foreigners ‘living’ in Thailand have to leave after 30 days’ stay, often braving hair-raising visa bus runs to the Malaysian border, only to turn on their heel and immediately re-enter the country as brand new tourist swith brand new visas. No need for a hat or fake moustache.

The trip to secure the new visa stamp – speeding drivers, bumpy roads, and a torturously long journey – can be hellish.

There are other ways to stay in Thailand, of course. You could actually work here in Thailand with a proper visa and work permit, pay taxes, contribute to the Thai economy and become part of Thai society.

Or you could enrol in an education programme that would entitle you to a one-year stay.

If you’re aged over 50 and have either B800,000 in the bank, or can prove you’re earning more than B65,000 (from overseas) per month then you can apply for a retirement visa.

You could also get married to a local, though you still have to show an adequate income if you want to stay long-term.

If you do manage to get the visas however, you’ll still have to drop by your local immigration department every 90 days (until the end of time) to ensure they know you are still learning, living, working or retiring in Thailand.

The routes to having the right to reside here – proof of earnings, learning Thai, finding employment – are presumably intended to allow the state to be selective about who is allowed to live in Thailand.

The reality however is quite different. There are many expats who ‘live’ here year round, on a revolving door of ‘tourist’ visas, who are officially jobless, doing what they can to make ends meet and who can barely string a Thai sentence together.

Thailand knows they’re here – the existence of so many visa run firms testifies to this. The continued, costly charade is an odd waste of time for all concerned.

For those who continue to brave the buses to the Malaysian border just to secure another 30 days in paradise, it might be better to settle on the other side, where for those with the funds, there is the successful MM2H (Malaysia My Second Home) scheme and the offer of a 10-year renewable visa.

But if the visa rules in Thailand appear overly complicated and perhaps lead to the temptation simply to ignore them all, a word of caution. This week’s arrests of a Canadian and Briton, found without visas and now facing fines and deportation offers a simple lesson: try it, and sooner or later they’ll get you.

Source: http://www.thephuketnews.com/phuket-opinion-the-ins-and-outs-of-living-in-thailand-40625.php


-- Phuket News 2013-07-06

[davejones]

Easy enough to enroll in a Thai language course and get a long-term visa. If people do visa runs, then that is their choice, so they shouldn't be complaining. In fact, they should be thankful that it's so easy to stay here, even if you're jobless and almost broke. There's not many countries that would allow that.

I don't agree at all that it's a charade. The rules are in place for very good reasons. If anyone wants to stay in Thailand without making any effort to get a long-term visa, then they deserve to have to make visa runs every month.

[bubblegum]

Even with a simple article like this the Phuket News cannot get it's facts right !! If you do a border crossing by car, bus, bike or whatever (elephant) you'll get a 15 day visa. ONLY by air do you get 30 days.

[davejones]

If you can't meet the long-term visa requirements for Thailand, I don't see what hope you have for meeting the requirements for Malaysia My Second Home. And if you want to leave in Thailand, how does living in Malaysia help? Seem like a bit of a silly suggestion to move to another country. Would seem much easier and less costly to enroll on a Thai language course and get an education visa.

Strikes me as slightly odd that many will endure hours of "hair-raising visa bus runs" and "speeding drivers, bumpy roads, and a torturously long journeys" rather then spend a few hours learning the language of the country they have chosen to live in. But it takes all sorts I suppose.

[Unwisemonkey]

The Visa rules are in need of reform. This article completely sidesteps issues regarding foreigners with Thai spouses, and treats those of us married to Thai's no better than a stoned backpacker. In my opinion the visa rules for Thai spouses are anti-family and destructive to the social fabric.

[chainarong]

The rules are okay, could do with a bit of a tweak here and there ,the only pain in the butt is doing those visa runs , should do one, then all others at local immigration , like the 30 day extension, then they would know where most are living, on that visa system, the retirement visa is reasonable, the best would be able to apply for Visa's without going all the way back to country of origin

[lee b]

I still dont understand why ppl overstay. Visa runs are a pain but i would rather do them than walk around illegally just waiting to be stopped for something and say BYE BYE THAILAND. Many places would not let you keep doing this kind of thing to get an extension of stay !!

[54321]

not quite "The ins and out of living in Thailand", more like a basic summary stretched into an article!

[jpinx]

Does Jody Houton actually live in Thailand ?

[BrianCR]

Even with a simple article like this the Phuket News cannot get it's facts right !! If you do a border crossing by car, bus, bike or whatever (elephant) you'll get a 15 day visa. ONLY by air do you get 30 days.

You won't! You'll get a 15 or 30 day visa EXEMPTION!! For a visa you'll need to visit a Thai Embassy. It's amazing how facts get mixed

[rgs2001uk]

The Visa rules are in need of reform. This article completely sidesteps issues regarding foreigners with Thai spouses, and treats those of us married to Thai's no better than a stoned backpacker. In my opinion the visa rules for Thai spouses are anti-family and destructive to the social fabric.

This article completely sidesteps issues regarding foreigners with Thai spouses, and treats those of us married to Thai's no better than a stoned backpacker.

Well as one married to a Thai I have to ask, have you ever actually applied for a visa extension based on being married to a Thai?

I have done eight of them, the last two all conducted in Thai, a painless experience, I was treated with courtesy and certainly wasnt made to feel like "a stoned backpacker"

The whole process takes about 15 minutes, after which the staff say to me something along the lines of, see you next year.

If you think Thai laws are harsh, try getting your wife to the UK for example.

[jcs360]

I just flew round trip to Kuala Lumpur to visit the Royal Thai Embassy BT4650, got a 60 day visa with 30 day extension at Phuket Town immigration. Instead of a pain in the ass, I had a great 3 days there & don't have to make another visa run for 3 months. Not sure what's the big deal?

[jamhar]

D'oh!

Need to get my mind out of the gutter

i had a completely different idea what this topic was about

[Curt1591]

The Visa rules are in need of reform. This article completely sidesteps issues regarding foreigners with Thai spouses, and treats those of us married to Thai's no better than a stoned backpacker. In my opinion the visa rules for Thai spouses are anti-family and destructive to the social fabric.

This article completely sidesteps issues regarding foreigners with Thai spouses, and treats those of us married to Thai's no better than a stoned backpacker.

Well as one married to a Thai I have to ask, have you ever actually applied for a visa extension based on being married to a Thai?

I have done eight of them, the last two all conducted in Thai, a painless experience, I was treated with courtesy and certainly wasnt made to feel like "a stoned backpacker"

The whole process takes about 15 minutes, after which the staff say to me something along the lines of, see you next year.

If you think Thai laws are harsh, try getting your wife to the UK for example.

Yes, you will see that section "next year". But, you have to report every 90 days to verify residence.

Address confirmation could all be done, quite efficiently, on the internet. But then, we wouldn't have need of all the government officials!

Make work; that's what it's all about

[dickyknee]

Even with a simple article like this the Phuket News cannot get it's facts right !! If you do a border crossing by car, bus, bike or whatever (elephant) you'll get a 15 day visa. ONLY by air do you get 30 days.

You won't! You'll get a 15 or 30 day visa EXEMPTION!! For a visa you'll need to visit a Thai Embassy. It's amazing how facts get mixed

depending on your home country. there is a class of "visa on arrival" that doesn't require a visit to an embassy.

I find it curious that the tourist visa exemption by name would indicate that it isn't a visa, and the tourist visa exception rule doesn't call it a visa, yet if you look up the definition of a visa that is exactly what it is.

[bigbamboo]

The rules are okay, could do with a bit of a tweak here and there ,the only pain in the butt is doing those visa runs , should do one, then all others at local immigration , like the 30 day extension, then they would know where most are living, on that visa system, the retirement visa is reasonable, the best would be able to apply for Visa's without going all the way back to country of origin:coffee1:

But at least you have the satisfaction of knowing you're doing your bit for TAT's tourist numbers.... even if you aren't quality!

[rgs2001uk]

The Visa rules are in need of reform. This article completely sidesteps issues regarding foreigners with Thai spouses, and treats those of us married to Thai's no better than a stoned backpacker. In my opinion the visa rules for Thai spouses are anti-family and destructive to the social fabric.

This article completely sidesteps issues regarding foreigners with Thai spouses, and treats those of us married to Thai's no better than a stoned backpacker.

Well as one married to a Thai I have to ask, have you ever actually applied for a visa extension based on being married to a Thai?

I have done eight of them, the last two all conducted in Thai, a painless experience, I was treated with courtesy and certainly wasnt made to feel like "a stoned backpacker"

The whole process takes about 15 minutes, after which the staff say to me something along the lines of, see you next year.

If you think Thai laws are harsh, try getting your wife to the UK for example.

Yes, you will see that section "next year". But, you have to report every 90 days to verify residence.

Address confirmation could all be done, quite efficiently, on the internet. But then, we wouldn't have need of all the government officials!

Make work; that's what it's all about

But, you have to report every 90 days to verify residence.

Really? News to me, why not send the maid or a local motorcycle taxi driver with the passport?

Why not do it by post, why not fly down to Singapore for the weekend and restart the 90 days on your arrival back in Thailand?

[KireB]

I also find it rather easy to get a marriage visa, and never had any problems in the process. Courtesey and even fun with the immigration officers visiting us to check our whereabouts. The only catch is the 400k in the bank that becomes useless, as you'll need it the next year again. I can only hope the rules will stay as they are.

[NoshowJones]

The rules are okay, could do with a bit of a tweak here and there ,the only pain in the butt is doing those visa runs , should do one, then all others at local immigration , like the 30 day extension, then they would know where most are living, on that visa system, the retirement visa is reasonable, the best would be able to apply for Visa's without going all the way back to country of origin

Some of the Thai immigration rules are fine, not them all, but at the end of the day, they don't want us, they only want our money.

[LivinLOS]

The Visa rules are in need of reform. This article completely sidesteps issues regarding foreigners with Thai spouses, and treats those of us married to Thai's no better than a stoned backpacker. In my opinion the visa rules for Thai spouses are anti-family and destructive to the social fabric.

This article completely sidesteps issues regarding foreigners with Thai spouses, and treats those of us married to Thai's no better than a stoned backpacker.

Well as one married to a Thai I have to ask, have you ever actually applied for a visa extension based on being married to a Thai?

I have done eight of them, the last two all conducted in Thai, a painless experience, I was treated with courtesy and certainly wasnt made to feel like "a stoned backpacker"

The whole process takes about 15 minutes, after which the staff say to me something along the lines of, see you next year.

If you think Thai laws are harsh, try getting your wife to the UK for example.

Yes but what path to your own citizenship ?? As a married person without tax history none..

And dont say it doesnt matter as I hope you dont find out like I did after a wife dies what your options are after becoming committed to the country.

[Mudcrab]

The Visa rules are in need of reform. This article completely sidesteps issues regarding foreigners with Thai spouses, and treats those of us married to Thai's no better than a stoned backpacker. In my opinion the visa rules for Thai spouses are anti-family and destructive to the social fabric.

This article completely sidesteps issues regarding foreigners with Thai spouses, and treats those of us married to Thai's no better than a stoned backpacker.

Well as one married to a Thai I have to ask, have you ever actually applied for a visa extension based on being married to a Thai?

I have done eight of them, the last two all conducted in Thai, a painless experience, I was treated with courtesy and certainly wasnt made to feel like "a stoned backpacker"

The whole process takes about 15 minutes, after which the staff say to me something along the lines of, see you next year.

If you think Thai laws are harsh, try getting your wife to the UK for example.

Yes but what path to your own citizenship ?? As a married person without tax history none..

And dont say it doesnt matter as I hope you dont find out like I did after a wife dies what your options are after becoming committed to the country.

jeez mate...care to expand on what you are saying. You live here for many years then your missus passes away...and....?

[NoshowJones]

The Visa rules are in need of reform. This article completely sidesteps issues regarding foreigners with Thai spouses, and treats those of us married to Thai's no better than a stoned backpacker. In my opinion the visa rules for Thai spouses are anti-family and destructive to the social fabric.

This article completely sidesteps issues regarding foreigners with Thai spouses, and treats those of us married to Thai's no better than a stoned backpacker.

Well as one married to a Thai I have to ask, have you ever actually applied for a visa extension based on being married to a Thai?

I have done eight of them, the last two all conducted in Thai, a painless experience, I was treated with courtesy and certainly wasnt made to feel like "a stoned backpacker"

The whole process takes about 15 minutes, after which the staff say to me something along the lines of, see you next year.

If you think Thai laws are harsh, try getting your wife to the UK for example.

But if it was eastern Europeans etc, wanting to get into the UK, their free houses and benefits will be waiting for them.

[NoshowJones]

The Visa rules are in need of reform. This article completely sidesteps issues regarding foreigners with Thai spouses, and treats those of us married to Thai's no better than a stoned backpacker. In my opinion the visa rules for Thai spouses are anti-family and destructive to the social fabric.

This article completely sidesteps issues regarding foreigners with Thai spouses, and treats those of us married to Thai's no better than a stoned backpacker.

Well as one married to a Thai I have to ask, have you ever actually applied for a visa extension based on being married to a Thai?

I have done eight of them, the last two all conducted in Thai, a painless experience, I was treated with courtesy and certainly wasnt made to feel like "a stoned backpacker"

The whole process takes about 15 minutes, after which the staff say to me something along the lines of, see you next year.

If you think Thai laws are harsh, try getting your wife to the UK for example.

Yes but what path to your own citizenship ?? As a married person without tax history none..

And dont say it doesnt matter as I hope you dont find out like I did after a wife dies what your options are after becoming committed to the country.

jeez mate...care to expand on what you are saying. You live here for many years then your missus passes away...and....?

and he will get about one week to leave the country.

[LuckyLew]

The Visa rules are in need of reform. This article completely sidesteps issues regarding foreigners with Thai spouses, and treats those of us married to Thai's no better than a stoned backpacker. In my opinion the visa rules for Thai spouses are anti-family and destructive to the social fabric.

I have been married to a Thai before ... I would now prefer to be a stoned backpacker lol

[Unwisemonkey]

The Visa rules are in need of reform. This article completely sidesteps issues regarding foreigners with Thai spouses, and treats those of us married to Thai's no better than a stoned backpacker. In my opinion the visa rules for Thai spouses are anti-family and destructive to the social fabric.

This article completely sidesteps issues regarding foreigners with Thai spouses, and treats those of us married to Thai's no better than a stoned backpacker.

Well as one married to a Thai I have to ask, have you ever actually applied for a visa extension based on being married to a Thai?

I have done eight of them, the last two all conducted in Thai, a painless experience, I was treated with courtesy and certainly wasnt made to feel like "a stoned backpacker"

The whole process takes about 15 minutes, after which the staff say to me something along the lines of, see you next year.

If you think Thai laws are harsh, try getting your wife to the UK for example.

So what. Just because they give service with a smile doesn't mean anything. We are still regarded as second class citizens, stoned backpackers, or whatever moniker that suits you, and the laws reflect that. I went through the immigration process with my wife in the U.S. (not the U.K.) And it was painless, It was expensive but once it is done, there is no more milking the foreigner for money.

They are given resident status and a work permit, and allowed to support their family. In short the entire country is opened up to a foreign spouse in our home countries and the sky is the limit for them. There are no restricted job categories, Every time I have to go on a visa run, or pay money to immigration it's money out of my family's pocket, and I say hand off to the government. And woe to those who's relationships go sour and their are kids involved. Just because your experience had been pleasant doesn't mean that the laws reflect justice and equality for foreign spouses.

[upena]

And, TAT recounts you as a tourist each and every time you enter the country

[rishi]

I find it curious that the tourist visa exemption by name would indicate that it isn't a visa, and the tourist visa exception rule doesn't call it a visa, yet if you look up the definition of a visa that is exactly what it is.

Being a bit bored, I actually did look it up. Here's how my favrite online dictionary defines it:

"Visa: an endorsement made by an authorized representative of one country upon a passport issued by another, permitting the passport holder entry into or transit through the country making the endorsement.

No endorsements are made to your passport or anywhere else whene you are granted a visa-exempt entry - you are simply just let in despite the lack of said endorsements. All you get is a permitted to stay stamp - which certainly isn't a visa neither. Thus it is perfectly correct to call the phenomon a visa-exempt entry.

Back to topic.

[Ianatlarge]

The visa rules are in need of reform, as was stated earlier. The rules as they exist provide a gold mine for officials, and a noticeable bump in greenhouse emissions due to all those visa runs. My years in Thailand suggest to me that 99% of foreigners are of benefit to the kingdom. Many western men (not me, but that is me) support a Thai family, with children not their own. Others live in villages and towns and rely on visa runs and marginal practises to stay where they stay. These men at the very least bring in some hard cash and often provide a little expertise, even if it is just teaching a little Eng on the side.

How about a monthly fee to live in Thailand, lets say 5000b, payable at the local post office? Simple.

[Phatcharanan]

The Visa rules are in need of reform. This article completely sidesteps issues regarding foreigners with Thai spouses, and treats those of us married to Thai's no better than a stoned backpacker. In my opinion the visa rules for Thai spouses are anti-family and destructive to the social fabric.

Why is that?

Not sure what country you are from but the UK has now implemented new rules for non - EU spouses.

Brit sponsor to earn 18,000 UK pounds minimum a year (I think) or its a 'no no'

That's the equivalent of approx. 70,000 baht a month.

[VINCENT2012]

thailand is not the land of smile ,no sir .....today .... it is the land who use foreigners to make money.

thats it.and we are so stupid that we let them doing it.....well not me..!

they dont understand us, and they dont like us or the way we are, especially the high society who make the rules.

i leaved there long enough to see and feel that for sure.

in my opinion we should aplicate exactly the same rules to them when they go to our country ,instead of giving them visas, help for free, money for free, hospital care for free etc and etc for free.... ... but we are democratic..thats the diference!

i hope one day they will realise they are wrong and change their visa regulation ! and during that time i would say to all new people who want to go to live to thailand .... to choose another country, because in my opinion,.... thailand, today is not worth it