Understanding Etihad's pricing

[tartempion]

I tried to book a business class seat Bangkok-Abu Dhabi-Brussels depart aug 12 on the 20.30 flight and returning sept 14 on the 11.30 flight. Etihad's website shows No Seats available on both flights.

Thus I booked an economy fare at 43K baht, ticket refundable fare (you never know) and managed to upgrade the first leg with miles on their website minutes after having booked the economy ticket!!! (I hold gold status with them) How is that possible?

Checking Experflyer I see BKK-AUH business class has at least 7 seats available in all booking classes and AUH-BRU only in full fare J.

Thus they show some fare buckets to be unavailable although many seats are unsold.

Checking fare rules I find AUH-BRU to be High Season 01-15 aug. Thus Etihad is hoping to fill these AUH-BRU seats on full fare before 12 aug and out of BKK you cannot book/pay.

I bet one week before departure it will be possible to book/pay (but at what price?)

Otherwise I hope to find a way to upgrade the trip back to Bangkok, who knows?

[lomatopo]

I'm not certain what your question is exactly, but airlines do manage fare buckets with incredibly complex algorithms, and some fares may have APEX requirements which you may well be "inside of" already? I think you are just seeing a mis-match is fare buckets for BKK-AUH and AUH-BRU, and the EY web-site has issues trying to construct, or even present, a ticketing option?

You should be able to construct a ticket mixing C/D/J/W - I/CS fare buckets on individual segments

Obviously a seasoned travel agent could likely detail more options or explain the vagaries of your routing/city-pairs, and even EY's agents might be able to construct a ticket to your requirements.

FF's/TA's on FlyerTalk may be better able to address your specific concerns and questions?

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/etihad-airways-etihad-guest-692/

[yermanee]

As lomatopo says, sometimes a good travel agent can find exactly the flights you want because they have access to the abacus booking site and can make combinations which we don't.

Problem is finding a good travel agent.

However it's also my experience that sometimes agents are excluded by the airline from booking promotions. (I know of Qatar and Oman)

It is frustrating indeed.

Yermanee

[tartempion]

Well I was not asking a question

I do find it strange whilst seats are open on both legs BKK-AUH-BRU one can not book a ticket BKK-BRU for thise specific flights on EY's website. I tested and could book a return AUH-BRU at 2500 euros return on same flights.

And I see why I could upgrade with miles on the BKK-AUH segment since all booking classes are open.

I guess no one here is in the marketing secrets of EY able to explain why I can't book a business class ticket all the way.

I do book my flights online mostly direct with the airline and this is a first.

I have noticed in the past that one week before the flight they release seats in all booking classes with previously zero availability thus making it possible to get a good business class deal in the week leading up to the flight.

I never needed to take advantage of this knowledge, but this time I might.

I will report back on my findings just before departure.

[lomatopo]

I do find it strange whilst seats are open on both legs BKK-AUH-BRU one can not book a ticket BKK-BRU for thise specific flights on EY's website.

Do you mean that seats appear open on an EF seat-map? Or that there is fare bucket availability? I assume you understand that it is possible for someone to hold a ticketed reservation, but not yet have a seat assignment?

To me it looks like EY 401, EY 403 and EY 407 (BKK - AUH flights) are all sold out in all business class fare codes on 12 Aug 2013. Obviously there could be subsequent changes/cancellations of existing ticketed reservations. I did not see any "I" (business class upgrade/award) availability.

I suspect that EY's on-line booking interface does not allow one to construct all variations - mixed class on separate or married segments - on a ticket? That would not be unusual.

I have noticed in the past that one week before the flight they release seats in all booking classes with previously zero availability thus making it possible to get a good business class deal in the week leading up to the flight.

This can lead to conditioning of undesirable behavior on the part of customers. I suspect what you are seeing might be availability based on cancellations/changes?

[stoffel45]

I have found this "problem" when flying Etihad.

If I book economy and then upgrade 6 days before the flight - I get the promotion rate for Business Class and just upgrade.

I understand that an airline sells its 'premium' seats at a good rate either 6 months in advance, but if there are some still left just before departure, then as close to the departure date.

I like Etihad but it has behaved in a very buccaneering way with its "regulars". Guest member miles were slashed to 50% last year. Redemption fares Europe to BKK return are now double. (when you buy a ticket with your points) and this week the "Free Chauffeur" service for First or Business class pax had a 60 km distance limit slapped on it. Exit seats in Economy are now available at an extra cost (even for disable pax) and a charge is levied for online booking of a seat.

Etihad has a great recipe and their service in the air is superb. Price wise they are now near the middle of fares available where they used to be first and best.

We are reluctantly looking around.

[tartempion]

Iomatopo, I use Expertflyer.com (a paying site), a site showing available seats by booking code for most airlines on the planet. They get this info from the airlines. You then can navigate to the corresponding seat map (but many people do not choose their seat at booking time) and corresponding fares form the airline for each of the booking classes. It is a very handy tool at 99usd/year.

I use this website mainly to assess available seats in the lowest business class fare.

What I experience more and more with Etihad, directly booking on their website, is that many of their seats showing up on Expertflyer are not sellable at that time with their own system, probably for some dark marketing reason or their own systems stupidity.

In my example on both legs BKK-AUH-BRU 7+ business seats are available (all booking codes on BKK-AUH, only full fare J on AUH-BRU) but Etihad's website shows zero availability in business class on that flight.

Keeping an eye on these things I noticed unavailable seats become available one week before due date, and checking with Etihad's website these seats could be bought indeed day 7 to 2 before departure according to available booking class showing up on Expertflyer. Therefore I guess the info I see on Experflyer any time to be correct.

Since a few months Etihad uses a bidding system selling unsold business class seats for upgrade, probably 7 days before departure by emailing customers who booked on their website. Thus I wonder if I will get such a mail in the week before I fly out.

Once in BRU I will also have enough miles to upgrade one segment on the return flight.

I might have several options left to upgrade the 3 remaining legs.

I still don't understand why I can't purchase a business class seat whilst Expertflyer shows availability for 7+ seats on all segments

[tartempion]

As I guessed this while late june/early july Etihad had no seats available in business class BKK-AUH-BRU I could book seats one week before departure at around 103K baht. Thus one week before the flight they release seats for sale...strange marketing it is.

Checking with expertflyer.com they still have at least 7 seats available for sales in biz less than 7 days before the flight.

During july it was possible to book a (very expensive) biz ticket between AUH and BRU but not BKK-BRU

It seems SABRE is the software they use for their marketing lately, it also seems AUH-BRU and BRU-AUH is considered high season for august and BKK-AUH not, thus SABRE can't handle such a mix???

Anyway, booked a economy ticket, upgraded one leg with miles, will have enough miles to upgrade a segment on return trip and got mail to bid for the other legs, minimum bid on AUH-BRU is 100 euro+ than for the BKK-AUH leg (seasonality?)

Thus flying biz all the way might cost me around 75k baht.

OK, I guess no one here cares really but myself

[lomatopo]

I still don't understand why I can't purchase a business class seat whilst Expertflyer shows availability for 7+ seats on all segments

I've used EF for a few years. I'm not 100% certain how "timely" their "view" of every airline's fare bucket availability is; I do know some airlines restrict rapid EF-like queries.

Does EF show availability on the same fare bucket for both BKK-AUH and AUH-BRU?

Have you tried using the multi-city booking engine: http://www.etihad.com/en/plan-and-book/multi-city-booking/

When I looked at EF originally, for your travel dates of 12(/13) August, EF showed all BKK-AUH flights were zeroed out in all business class buckets.

EY agents may be able to construct mixed-CoS/bucket fares for you which are not possible on the web-site. Obviously a ticket constructed with a single full-fare (J) segment will be more expensive.

Thus one week before the flight they release seats for sale...strange marketing it is.

Assuming the flight showed as zeroed out previously then I assume that some previously ticketed reservations were canceled or changed. This is not unusual for business class travelers who often modify their travel plans as their departure date approaches owing to changes in schedules, business meetings, etc.

Just to reiterate what I said in post #2, which seems to have gone unnoticed:

I think you are just seeing a mis-match is fare buckets for BKK-AUH and AUH-BRU, and the EY web-site has issues trying to construct, or even present, a ticketing option?

You should be able to construct a ticket mixing C/D/J/W - I/CS fare buckets on individual segments

Obviously a seasoned travel agent could likely detail more options or explain the vagaries of your routing/city-pairs, and even EY's agents might be able to construct a ticket to your requirements.

[tartempion]

Indeed Iomatopo multicity booking might have provided a way to book business for all segments, I have not considered that.

But I did book economy when I understood no seats availble for business. I upgraded first segments with miles minutes later on EY's website, having checked business class seat availlability EF, knowing I will have enough miles for a second upgrade for sector 3 or 4 after flying out and expecting to make a bid on the two remaining sectors.

As for common database update used by EF I did a test last year, booked the last seat available in a booking class on EY's website and checked EF before and afterward the booking, the only seat in that class was gone indeed.

Checking AUH-BRU on EF for 13 aug 02.30 less than 48h before departure: J7 C7 D0 W0 Y7 B7 H7 K7 M6 Q0 L0 V0 U0 E0 T0 and seat map shows 11 seats free, thus high probability for bidding upgrade to become successful.

I rest convinced something is wrong marketing wise and I suspect the Sabre software to be the culprit, dealing with different seasonalities between city pairs.

Anyway, I am warned to better watch out for booking my next trip

[fatfather]

Well I was not asking a question

I do find it strange whilst seats are open on both legs BKK-AUH-BRU one can not book a ticket BKK-BRU for thise specific flights on EY's website. I tested and could book a return AUH-BRU at 2500 euros return on same flights.

 

And I see why I could upgrade with miles on the BKK-AUH segment since all booking classes are open.

 

I guess no one here is in the marketing secrets of EY able to explain why I can't book a business class ticket all the way.

I do book my flights online mostly direct with the airline and this is a first.

 

I have noticed in the past that one week before the flight they release seats in all booking classes with previously zero availability thus making it possible to get a good business class deal in the week leading up to the flight. 

 

I never needed to take advantage of this knowledge, but this time I might.

I will report back on my findings just before departure.

That's the way to go. I usually book only some days in advance for then there are more options and always book through a travel agent. EY is nice to fly with

Fatfather

Sent from my phone

[lomatopo]

One single data point hardly qualifies as proof of EF's "reliability", but if that works for you OK.

I did see the pop in inventory on 13 Aug for AUH-BRU (EY 57). I assume you understand that even when you see inventory it doesn't necessarily mean you can buy that fare bucket? And that even if you see empty seats, that doesn't mean that there aren't many people holding ticketed reservations, but do not yet have seat assignments?

My best guess, other than previous bookings/ticketed reservations and subsequent cancellation/changes, is that EY holds business class inventory for certain routes/days of travel based on historical data, a bit like over-selling but in this case under-selling, perhaps due to contractual/government arrangements to accommodate last-minute VIP travelers. But this is just my theory, and you have yours as well.

Obviously an early morning departure giving an early Monday morning arrival in BRU might be desirable for some business/government travelers?

Your approach, learn the nuances of city-pairs/carriers, assign a value, buy, then work the upgrade path is definitely the way most of us savvy travelers have been working the system for the last ~ 20 years. You might want to expand your information channels to include EY's retail/wholesale distribution channel, and don't just rely on EF and FT.

In the end, EY's "systems stupidity" (your words) may allow you to travel in business class with smaller spend, so some might view that positively?

Good luck with the upgrades, and maybe next time just wait until a few days before travel to purchase.

[tartempion]

Not wanting to bore Iomatopo one minute more:

Flew BKK-AUH 12aug business, upgraded with miles, 9 seats were still free.

AUH-BRU upgraded with Etihad Select upgrade, apparently zero seats free .

Have enough miles to upgrade return BRU-AUH with miles, but currently no seats available, wait they will release seats 7 days before flight.

Have put out bid for AUH-BKK, plenty of seats available.