Jump to content

Whats this DTAC Trinet all about?


KRS1

Recommended Posts

so i read on net that truemove h 2100mhz is only central bangkok

is it trinet 2100mhz works in pattaya?

To answer your question the DTAC coverage map doesn't show Pattaya on 3G at all.

But these maps are not always the most accurate. Just buy a DTAC prepaid data SIM and give it a try for a few days before signing in a postpay service.

post-56999-0-12019800-1375873032_thumb.p

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 190
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Part 2 42 MB ? not really !

A 5 MHz 3G or 3.5 channel can transport up to 42 MB/s, this is right ! This amount of data is really at best theoretical.

Why? spit this into up and down bandwidth and you end up with 21 MB/s

On top of that every connected handset and neighbouring overlapping cell site produces noise inside the channel.

This means your handset and site have to resend packages.

Never mind. Let's say you are livng in Nakhon Nowhere, this is the only DTAC tower within 35 km (max range 70km by the way)

than you would have a fair chance to get around 40MB/s because Rx/Tx (send/receive) are dynamic.

So let's take a quick look what would happen to a 15 channel tower under full load.

15x42 (up/down)= 620 MB/s To get this covered you have to hang a tower like this on a 1 TB fibre cable.

This may be possible in Bangkok Pattaya? The cat fibre between bangkok and pattaya is somewhere between 1-5 TB

How on earth then, you get all the bandwidth you need to need to the sites? Plain and simple: you don't. This is why your 3G works like, uhm, crap.

Edited by JakeBKK
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think at the end of the day, you should give all of the networks a try and see which one you are the most happiest. Coverage and experience differs usually based on where you are. Perhaps you live in that little area where there is a stronger 850MHz Dtac network than 1800MHz hence having a pretty good connection to a 3G network with no bouncing back to 2G.

42 Mbps 3G is a "standard", which the major service providers all promote as supporting here.

DTAC does have the most available spectrum.

Nearly everything in post #45 is erroneous.

Please elaborate which part of my post was inaccurate, lomatopo. Please don't tell me all you did was a simple mathematical addition to tell which one has the best network! Post #57 by JakeBKK pretty much explained it all quite clearly. It doesn't matter how many (or wide) spectra a telco has. A phone will connect only to one single band at a time therefore it's useless.

DTAC may say they have a 3 lane street compared to others, which have only two. But a car can only drive in one lane at a time (just like your phone) and then that car is most likely going to jump to the lane that is the easiest to get into (which is unfortunately the slow 1800MHz 2G network). Then if that car were to jump to a different lane, if you are on a phone call then you may suffer call drop outs as inter-spectra handover has a VERY HIGH failure rate.

The only way DTAC Trinet would perform well, is to require phone companies to make phones that support technology similar to AWS which utilizes two network bands at the same time (but remains hugely unpopular worldwide but the US)

Hope this post clarifies a few things.

Yeh, typically low on facts, and tons of hype.

Lets face the facts, DTAC will never expand their 3G on 850 cause of concession hand back, 2G frequency ..... Who the hell is talking about 2g these days. They have the lowest 3G coverage in the country.

Summary - hype up the Try-Net and make it into something its not. Their advert materials also said its 4g ( and in very vey small text " upgradable " )

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeh, typically low on facts, and tons of hype.

Lets face the facts, DTAC will never expand their 3G on 850 cause of concession hand back, 2G frequency ..... Who the hell is talking about 2g these days. They have the lowest 3G coverage in the country.

Summary - hype up the Try-Net and make it into something its not. Their advert materials also said its 4g ( and in very vey small text " upgradable " )

4G/LTE need 20 MHz - dire straits for DTAC biggrin.png they can fit two channels in the 1900 MHz band.

Tri-net? *fg* this is better:

TRI_TROP_1.jpg

Edited by JakeBKK
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeh, typically low on facts, and tons of hype.

Lets face the facts, DTAC will never expand their 3G on 850 cause of concession hand back, 2G frequency ..... Who the hell is talking about 2g these days. They have the lowest 3G coverage in the country.

Summary - hype up the Try-Net and make it into something its not. Their advert materials also said its 4g ( and in very vey small text " upgradable " )

4G/LTE need 20 MHz - dire straits for DTAC biggrin.png they can fit two channels in the 1900 MHz band.

Tri-net? *fg* this is better:

TRI_TROP_1.jpg

Can i have a glass of Orange ? :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

so i read on net that truemove h 2100mhz is only central bangkok

is it trinet 2100mhz works in pattaya?

To answer your question the DTAC coverage map doesn't show Pattaya on 3G at all.

But these maps are not always the most accurate. Just buy a DTAC prepaid data SIM and give it a try for a few days before signing in a postpay service.

i put in my sim that i dont use i registered it for trinet before, i was by mimosa pattaya

it was switching between H and H+ on screen

like going H then H+

unfortunetely i had no credit on it

might test it again tommorow

H+ means 2100mhz i guess, but it was going back to H

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Looks like DTAC will soon transition the Thai wife and I to TriNet. We live in Bangkok and have separate DTAC post paid accounts...one in her name...one in my name. We first registered for the TriNet service back on 20 May 13. When we registered we got this SMS in Thai which basically said, "You have registered successfully. Waiting for more information to complete the task. I will let you know later."

OK, ever week or two after that we would register again just to see what would happen and we would get the same SMS each time. I have 5 such DTAC SMSs in my messaging inbox.

Ok, this morning, we both get an SMS in English which said, "DTAC TrinNet is now ready to serve you. You will be transferred according to your billing cycle within Aug. Please wait for another SMS for more info."

Our next DTAC post paid billing cycle starts on 18 Aug, so based on today's SMS I guess our registration worked and on/about 18 Aug we will be switched to TriNet....for better or worst.

I had read somewhere on the DTAC website they would have some type of phased transition...sounds fair enough compared to taking the chance of trying to switch everybody who registered to switch over a very short period...say over a few days or even on the same date. Now I hope there just ain't any surprises/fine print which might increase the price of our current plan which is Bt539 for 550 voice minutes and Unlimited 3G to 2GB (after 2GB each month the speed is reduced to 384KB until the start of the next billing month). I know AIS/DTAC/True all said they will lower their plan costs by approx. 10-15% under the 2100Mhz licenses they got, but I expect in some cases they may just say our plans have already been reduced cost......you were getting the reduced cost in the plan you recently signed up for in May 13....time will tell.

Edited by Pib
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4G/LTE need 20 MHz - dire straits for DTAC

TrueMove H is offering 4G/LTE on their 15 MHz slice of 2100 MHz.

TrueMove also have a similar allotment of frequencies, with ~ 17 million customers on GSM 1800 - at least until September 15, ~ 3.2 million customers on CAT/850 MHz, and presumably a few thousand on 4G/LTE on 2100 MHz and maybe some on 3G/2100 MHz. Arguably, TrueMove could market "quad-NET". wink.png

I think most understand that one's phone can only utilize a single frequency at any given time. As a TrueMove H customer I roam onto TrueMove's old GSM1800 network when I am outside of the CAT/850 MHz coverage. With DTAC I roam onto their GSM/1800 MHz network when I am outside of their 3G/850 MHz network. Not sure about AIS's 2100 MHz 3G network as I've only ever used that where they have 2100 MHz 3G coverage.

There are still a lot of customers using 2G. Obviously all of TrueMove's 17 million customers are using 2G only, and the bulk of those are low-ARPU pre-paid customers, and conversely probably (nearly) all of TrueMove H/CAT's customers are higher-value ARPU post-paid customers. The mix is probably 80% 2G and 20% 3G, when measured by the number of subscribers.

AIS, TrueMove and DTAC all market their 3G services as "42 Mbps" capable.

It's not clear how TrueMove is progressing with their 2100 MHz/3G build-out. Obviously they have to meet certain coverage targets by contract: 50% population within 2 years, 80% population within 4 years. They also have indicated a plan to offer up to 2,000 4G/LTE base stations. But then they are short on capital. They are trying to raise money but it's not clear how that effort is progressing. Maybe more will be revealed when they announce their Q2/2013 numbers next week (Aug. 14); I think they were supposed to announce this past Wednesday (Aug. 7), but that got pushed out a week.

Regarding DTAC specifically, to me it looks like they are migrating existing post-paid customers to 2100 MHz first. I assume that these users will be able to roam onto existing 850/3G or 1800/2G networks when outside of 2100 MHz coverage, but am not sure how they will account for the different revenue streams. DTAC did invest a lot of money, and suffered multiple massive network outages as a partial result, in their network management infrastructure. In theory that should make them better able to respond to customer requirements. AIS is generally recognized as having the least robust network management infrastructure, and TrueMove H does (or is supposed to) rely on CAT to manage their 3G/850 network.

DTAC could utilize some of their existing 1800 MHz spectrum for 4G/LTE, the downside being that they'd have to pay the higher concession fee on that revenue.

When TrueMove's GSM/1800 concession ends on Sep. 15 (along with DPC's), the NBTC had planned to auction 1800 MHz spectrum. My best guess is that TrueMove will not return that spectrum, or if they do, they will turn it over to CAT, if only because leaving 17 million customers without service might be viewed negatively, even though the concession date has been known for 15 years. So any subsequent 1800 MHz auction might not realistically happen until 2018, unfortunately.

TrueMove H/CAT 850 MHz has the most coverage. I think CAT has ~ 15,000 3G/850 MHz base stations and TrueMove H resells service on 13,500 of those. CAT has, at most, 350,000 subscribers. So recommending TrueMove H first is a no-brainer; they have most coverage and the fewest customers (3.2 million). Plus with more subscribers, hopefully, TrueMove H can eventually become profitable and represent a significant #3 position. Having more viable operators is a good thing.

I think you can determine if you are on a 2100 MHz 3G network by examining the MNC. SO DTAC would be 52018 for GSM/1800 or 3G/850 and 52005 for 2100 MHz (Tri-NET). Note that Tri-NET is the name of DTAC 2100 MHz subsidiary - a new subsidiary is required for accounting. AIS's 2100 MHz sub. is AWN and their MNC is 52003. I think TrueMove's 2100 MHz sub is called RealMove, and their MNC is 52004.

If coverage is paramount, and you travel throughout Thailand, and your device supports 850 MHz 3G then the obvious choice is TrueMove H.

Given that SIMs are ~ 50 baht, and daily plans are available for 49 baht, it is very easy to evaluate service providers.

I'll leave the "jumping cars" analogy alone as it makes almost no sense.rolleyes.gif

Edited by lomatopo
Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is why your 3G works like, uhm, crap.

I understand that you are frustrated, and your 3G works like, uhm, crap but I have been using DTAC 3G/850 MHZ now for two years and the speed, performance, call quality, customer service have all been decent for me.

Current speed-test, DTAC, 52108, 850 MHz 3G, Wireless Road, Bangkok (understanding that a lot of people have bugged out for the long weekend):

post-9615-0-33657500-1376034240_thumb.jp

Link to comment
Share on other sites

See my speed Truemove-H in pattaya. I think i had faster on dtac sim... http://www.speedtest.net/android/541850883.png

Wysłane z mojego GT-I9505 za pomocą Tapatalk 4

I tend to average 3 Mbps/1 Mbps with TrueMove H. Obviously in those areas where this is the only 3G option it is more than acceptable. For most/all of my mobile data applications 3 Mbps is more than adequate. I use a fair amount of Android apps, rather than straight-up browsing, also run AdAway which helps.

I am fairly certain DTAC has both 850 MHz/3G coverage and GSM/1800 MHz (2G) coverage in Pattaya. I can't get the DTAC coverage mapper to work for me, but there are many, many other first-hand, real-world "maps" which indicate coverage, along with more than a few posts here on ThaiVisa.

I'm not sure where, exactly, DTAC has turned-up 2100 MHz 3G (52005, 520-5, 520-05, et al), but there are quite a few spottings on Thai social forums:

http://pantip.com/topic/30524363

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Honestly compared to true or AIS dtacs online services are a dream.

I can go online switch my service every month if I like back between the cheapest 150 baht plan and my 899 w 3G plan depending on if I'm in or out of the country. My invoices are emailed and I'm billed on autopay. This is not only as a post pay customer my friend does this with a prepaid happy account registered to a email address.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just to show that users can "fall back" to DTAC's GSM1800 service, I was in a spot today which apparently did not have DTAC 3G, so "my car jumped to a different lane", and then it jumped back, isn't it amazing what cars can do! I received and originated a few voice calls, and received an SMS, after my car jumped to GSM1800. Amazing Thailand.

I also added a speedtest result on DTAC, on the MRT (subway) platform at Petchaburi station.

post-9615-0-28507400-1376052241_thumb.jp

post-9615-0-86677300-1376052254_thumb.jp

post-9615-0-14949400-1376052267_thumb.jp

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just to show that users can "fall back" to DTAC's GSM1800 service, I was in a spot today which apparently did not have DTAC 3G, so "my car jumped to a different lane", and then it jumped back, isn't it amazing what cars can do! I received and originated a few voice calls, and received an SMS, after my car jumped to GSM1800. Amazing Thailand.

I also added a speedtest result on DTAC, on the MRT (subway) platform at Petchaburi station.

Please post some results from independent sites like speedtest.nectec.or.th. or so. the app you are referring to is cached on transparent proxy's. lomatopo, and ping your own host does not count ether, sorry. being in bangkok and ping a bkk host? nah, nothing personal but this is not representative!

How about run a test on UoS (Singapore) only http ( no apps) to here http://speedtest.sgix.sg/ (Singapore stock exchange ) good and fast servers.

Let me know how that goes, please. I would appreciate it.

Edited by JakeBKK
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Speedtest.net is fine for checking your local connection speed and I think that all we are really trying to show...that is, what 3G connection speed are you getting to your local 3G tower. Yes, Speedtest.net as a Flash-based speedtester and is easily fooled by hidden/transparent cache servers when testing to international web sites/servers....plus, the speed throttling Thai ISPs seem to do to international sites.

Edited by Pib
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Speedtest.net is fine for checking your local connection speed and I think that all we are really trying to show...that is, what 3G connection speed are you getting to your local 3G tower. Yes, Speedtest.net as a Flash-based speedtester and is easily fooled by hidden/transparent cache servers when testing to international web sites/servers....plus, the speed throttling Thai ISPs seem to do to international sites.

There is no cheating on local testing then? Try yourself: run speedtest.net bangkok and then use the technical university in bangkok speedtest.nectec.or.th

Okay, the critical point is:don't use the internal servers of your ISP. This means: AIS and DTAC operate their own ookla servers. If you consider their results as real you are fooling yourself.

Edited by JakeBKK
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Speedtest.net is fine for checking your local connection speed and I think that all we are really trying to show...that is, what 3G connection speed are you getting to your local 3G tower. Yes, Speedtest.net as a Flash-based speedtester and is easily fooled by hidden/transparent cache servers when testing to international web sites/servers....plus, the speed throttling Thai ISPs seem to do to international sites.

There is no cheating on local testing then? Try yourself: run speedtest.net bangkok and then use the technical university in bangkok speedtest.nectec.or.th

Okay, the critical point is:don't use the internal servers of your ISP. This means: AIS and DTAC operate their own ookla servers. If you consider their results as real you are fooling yourself.

Appears that nectec web site requires a person to register with a User ID and password. Don't want to do that just for a speedtest. And that sgix speedtester you referenced is a OOKLA (Flash-based tester) which could also be more easily fooled than a Java based tester. For my 3G connection I'm more concerned about getting a fast local connection; now for my home internet connection having a fast local and international connection is desired but a person is limited by the local ISPs serving your area like True, TOT, 3BB, etc., but they have throttle speed through their international gateways. I have a TrueOnline DOCSIS/cable home internet...a 14Mb speed plan....yeap, I get 14Mb speed for my local connection (flash based or java based testing) but when it comes to international speeds I only get around 5Mb speeds when using a Java-based tester...but when using a Flash/OOKLA tester like speedtest.net it can be easily fooled to give me 14Mb speed to most any server on Earth because its pulling cache results from a "local" cache server. But for testing the speed of your local connection to your nearby speed testing site/3G tower, a Flash/OOKLA based tester like Speedtest.net is fine. Besides, when 3G and ISP provides are selling their service they advertise their "local" speed...the speed to the DSLAM or possible perfect world speed to the 3G tower---they are not advertising/saying you will get that speed to international sites/servers. All speedtesting results, whether flash or java based, need to be taken with a grain of salt....preaching to the choir I know.

But with above being said about the "local" speed, sure the speed you get internationally is important without a doubt. I wish I could get speeds internationally that I get to local/in-Thailand sites but that ain't going to happen until Thai ISP/3G carriers buy a lot more international bandwidth which probably ain't going to happen any time soon since the great, great majority of their customers are Thai and most likely spend the great majority of their time connecting to in-Thailand websites/servers.

Edited by Pib
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Speedtest.net is fine for checking your local connection speed and I think that all we are really trying to show...that is, what 3G connection speed are you getting to your local 3G tower. Yes, Speedtest.net as a Flash-based speedtester and is easily fooled by hidden/transparent cache servers when testing to international web sites/servers....plus, the speed throttling Thai ISPs seem to do to international sites.

There is no cheating on local testing then? Try yourself: run speedtest.net bangkok and then use the technical university in bangkok speedtest.nectec.or.th

Okay, the critical point is:don't use the internal servers of your ISP. This means: AIS and DTAC operate their own ookla servers. If you consider their results as real you are fooling yourself.

Appears that nectec web site requires a person to register with a User ID and password. Don't want to do that just for a speedtest. And that sgix speedtester you referenced is a OOKLA (Flash-based tester) which could also be more easily fooled than a Java based tester. For my 3G connection I'm more concerned about getting a fast local connection; now for my home internet connection having a fast local and international connection is desired but a person is limited by the local ISPs serving your area like True, TOT, 3BB, etc., but they have throttle speed through their international gateways. I have a TrueOnline DOCSIS/cable home internet...a 14Mb speed plan....yeap, I get 14Mb speed for my local connection (flash based or java based testing) but when it comes to international speeds I only get around 5Mb speeds when using a Java-based tester...but when using a Flash/OOKLA tester like speedtest.net it can be easily fooled to give me 14Mb speed to most any server on Earth because its pulling cache results from a "local" cache server. But for testing the speed of your local connection to your nearby speed testing site/3G tower, a Flash/OOKLA based tester like Speedtest.net is fine. All speedtesting results, whether flash or java based, need to be taken with a grain of salt....preaching to the choir I know.

no they don't . just hit quick test.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

no they don't . just hit quick test.

Ok, I didn't see that little menu selection.

When running my the test on my home computer from my home internet on my TrueOnline 14Mb/1.4Mb plan I get a download speed of 9.38Mb down/1.91Mb up...but I ain't believing it because it a Flash-based tester and it's testing to an Australia / international server.

When testing on my Samsung S4 with Wifi turned on I get 18.29Mb down/191.MB up. High upload/download speed also affected by bursting which True DOCSIS plans use....gives a much higher upload/download speed for X-seconds...usually the bursting will last significantly longer than the speed testing period of time which only takes a few seconds. Appears the DOCSIS fooled the sgix speed tester big time. And when testing with the DTAC 3G turned-on instead of the Wifi I get a 8.12Mb down / 0.779Mb up. Once again, I'm not believing these download speeds to an Australia / international server because its' a flash based tester.

Now, when running the Speedtest.net test again on the S4 hooked to the DTAC 3G connection I got a 10.2Mb down/3.18Mb up to a Bangkok server...and I'm in Bangkok. When wanting to change the mobile App version to another server for testing I didn't see any for Australia server...less servers offered compared to the computer/PC version...but there was another sgix server located in Singapore so I run the test against that server....I got a 3.33Mb down/0.84Mb up with a 176ms ping time on the DTAC connection. I expect I may have got an accurate reading this time....maybe not...but as expected it was much less than the in-Thailand speed as expected since Thai ISPs, whether home internet or 3G internet providers, don't buy enough international bandwidth out of Thailand....they seem to limit it to around 5Mb (or less) regardless of your speed plan...unless maybe you are paying for a premium plan which advertises higher international speed connections.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here's my DTAC 3G 850MHz speed on this fine Friday afternoon at about 3:30 p.m. in western Bangkok.

{style_image_url}/attachicon.gif 1376038149319.jpg

The above speed was obtained downstairs in my concrete house at around 3:30pm...and right now at approx 11:30pm I'm getting similar speeds downstairs in my concrete house. However when I walk up to the second story of my house which apparently gives me a better/stronger signal because I've got less concrete for the signal to go through to reach me I'm getting download speeds of 15 to 20Mb like the results below. Goes to show how signal strength can affect your speed.

post-55970-13760663404121_thumb.jpg

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Link to comment
Share on other sites

when i spoke to truemove h customer cervices they said they use 2100mhz in pattaya

how can i see what freequency my phone picking up ?

What is the exact make and model of your phone?

TrueMove H could have 2100 MHz 3G in Pattaya but I think it is unlikely. There certainly is TrueMove H/CAT 850 MHz 3G in Pattaya.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

when i spoke to truemove h customer cervices they said they use 2100mhz in pattaya

how can i see what freequency my phone picking up ?

What is the exact make and model of your phone?

TrueMove H could have 2100 MHz 3G in Pattaya but I think it is unlikely. There certainly is TrueMove H/CAT 850 MHz 3G in Pattaya.

Samsung Galaxy S4

the speedtest.net i gets its not that fast like around 3Mbps

i was geting 6mbps on dtac

and 8Mbps on tot3G

i think dtac was better cuz i was doing it on thier own servers

I was told by Truem.H they use 2100mhz, how to verify this?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was told by Truem.H they use 2100mhz, how to verify this?

Not sure exactly. I guess you could search for available networks (Settings, Wireless & networks, More, Mobile networks, Network operators, Search networks - you can also remove any SIM and try this same procedure) and if you see "52004" then that represents TrueMove H/2100 MHz.

Someone told you this? In person? Over the phone? You would need a TrueMove H/2100 MHz SIM, you'd need to be provisioned on that network, you'd need to configure an APN. Maybe you could visit a TrueMove H shop?

Is there any specific reason why you need 2100 MHz? Your phone is 850 MHz/3G compatible and would work fine on the TrueMove H/CAT 850 MHz 3G network. This would seem to be the obvious choice, as it is most certainly available in Pattaya.

post-9615-0-50831500-1376115277_thumb.jp

Edited by lomatopo
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

when i spoke to truemove h customer cervices they said they use 2100mhz in pattaya

 

how can i see what freequency my phone picking up ?

 

What is the exact make and model of your phone?

 

TrueMove H could have 2100 MHz 3G in Pattaya but I think it is unlikely. There certainly is TrueMove H/CAT 850 MHz 3G in Pattaya.

 

 

Samsung Galaxy S4

 

the speedtest.net i gets its not that fast like around 3Mbps

 

i was geting 6mbps on dtac

 

and 8Mbps on tot3G

 

i think dtac was better cuz i was doing it on thier own servers

 

I was told by Truem.H they use 2100mhz, how to verify this?

You can change servers you sre testing to...like for Bangkok choose either AIS, SBN, STS Group, or DTAC. I use the STS server since it's usually the fastest. All the speedtest.net results I posted above were to STS.

Sent from my Samsung S4 (GT-I9500)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was told by Truem.H they use 2100mhz, how to verify this?

Not sure exactly. I guess you could search for available networks (Settings, Wireless & networks, More, Mobile networks, Network operators, Search networks - you can also remove any SIM and try this same procedure) and if you see "52004" then that represents TrueMove H/2100 MHz.

Someone told you this? In person? Over the phone? You would need a TrueMove H/2100 MHz SIM, you'd need to be provisioned on that network, you'd need to configure an APN. Maybe you could visit a TrueMove H shop?

Is there any specific reason why you need 2100 MHz? Your phone is 850 MHz/3G compatible and would work fine on the TrueMove H/CAT 850 MHz 3G network. This would seem to be the obvious choice, as it is most certainly available in Pattaya.

Hi, thanks for tip

now I stay at mimosa, pattaya so its like 7km from pattaya.

here i can scan for 52003 and TRUE only

i will check again when back to town

Well 2100Mhz is faster data transfers right...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.






×
×
  • Create New...