Chulalongkorn Fine and Applied Arts Faculty dean apologizes for Hitler graduation mural

[FiestyFarang]

I am a Jew and the few Thais I do tell I am Jewish do not even know what a Jew is. I could not believe the first one I told I thought they were joking. I bet all the nationalities on here know what a Jew is, except if you are Thai. The Thai education is generally an insult to the people, keeping them uneducated to not take on in adult life the Thai elite. As many of my friends say Thais are only one step out of the jungle. But with internet access in most cities it is surprising they still don't know what a Jew is.

I would guess that 99.99% of Asians don't know what a Jew is. I would further venture that more than 50% of Western people have knowledge of the word itself and none or little other knowledge of Jews.

If you are so distressed by this you should start a campaign to teach Asians.

It doesn't help your cause to insult Thais for not having this knowledge.

Try asking anyone in Singapore or Hong Kong what a Jew is, they will all know. It is down to education and an international approach, why do you think both places speak English. Thailand is Xenophobic.

[wilcopops]

What's all this nonsense about "collage" in every other post?

Having attended. Chulalongkorn for a Master in Finance just prior to the Thais crashing the Asian financial system I knew the degree was worthless, though it did give me insight into Thai elite character. Insight I have often wished I didn't have.

But this new low has me considering mailing the dam_n fool thing back to the benighted <deleted>.

Can we decide what we are talking about...

"college"

or

"collage"

the backdrop illustrated is NOT really a "collage" and I know that some readers do not consider the word "college" a synonym with University.

so how about checking what you actually mean before posting?

or is simply that some posters are as badly (or well) educated as the students at the uni?

Edited July 16, 2013 by wilcopops

[DocN]

If everything is so cool about all this...why is her face pixalated?

Isn't she proud of her diploma and having a picture taken with a "bad superhero comic character" can't be that bad....

[scorecard]

It's easy to see that the dean is minimizing the incident. The artist was a 'freshman," The intention of the message was "good and bad heroes." This is a nonsensical reaction for a dean.

I do agree that this is a rather pathetic response.

And if the said University is acclaimed to be one of Thailand`s top end education facilities, than we have wonder as to the quality of Thailand`s education system as a whole? And it becomes clearer why Thais are lacking in their knowledge of both Thai and world history, as it seems that ignorance is bliss in that department.

I can't see how you can support this statement - it seems to be nothing but supposition. Could you explain the rationale behind it?

I have no intent to protect the overall image / quality of Chula, but let's remember that Finance students (just one example and many more professional areas / faculties) don't study world history as part of their course, in any university..

[wilcopops]

I am a Jew and the few Thais I do tell I am Jewish do not even know what a Jew is. I could not believe the first one I told I thought they were joking. I bet all the nationalities on here know what a Jew is, except if you are Thai. The Thai education is generally an insult to the people, keeping them uneducated to not take on in adult life the Thai elite. As many of my friends say Thais are only one step out of the jungle. But with internet access in most cities it is surprising they still don't know what a Jew is.

I would guess that 99.99% of Asians don't know what a Jew is. I would further venture that more than 50% of Western people have knowledge of the word itself and none or little other knowledge of Jews.

If you are so distressed by this you should start a campaign to teach Asians.

It doesn't help your cause to insult Thais for not having this knowledge.

"I would guess that 99.99% of Asians don't know what a Jew is." - and I would make an EDUCATED guess that you'd be wrong.

As with many on this thread , you have made a wild generalisation to give a baseless argument some

"color"

as many Jews live in asia and Asia covers from Europe to Japan your comment displays also a lack of geographical knowledge. However I feel you may be clinging to some naive and unsophisticated concepts of race and "innate" genetic differences that have been proven not to exist.

[ayayay]

 

Try and tell a Thai why it is inappropriate and wrong... and they will just tell you that foreigners have no right to tell them what to do because they were never colonised... their general benightedness knows no bounds...

I bet though, still, there are far more foreigners trying to tell thais what to do, and not do, than Thais going to a foreign country and approach total strangers on the street telling them what to do.

That is just proven by the law of averages.

20mn foreign visitors to Thailand every year. Only 60mn Thais.

 

View it this way instead.

There are far more foreigners percentagewise who goes to Thailand and try to lecture Thai people, than the opposite,

[nahkit]

I don't know how many times I stumbled upon pics like this? A million?

It's apparently appropriate in American politics, and why should they care about the sensitivities of Europeans and Jews?

A million? Really?

So you've spent over 2 years of your life looking at the same picture? Seems a bit of a waste to me.

[Thai at Heart]

It's easy to see that the dean is minimizing the incident. The artist was a 'freshman," The intention of the message was "good and bad heroes." This is a nonsensical reaction for a dean.

I do agree that this is a rather pathetic response.

And if the said University is acclaimed to be one of Thailand`s top end education facilities, than we have wonder as to the quality of Thailand`s education system as a whole? And it becomes clearer why Thais are lacking in their knowledge of both Thai and world history, as it seems that ignorance is bliss in that department.

I can't see how you can support this statement - it seems to be nothing but supposition. Could you explain the rationale behind it?

I have no intent to protect the overall image / quality of Chula, but let's remember that Finance students (just one example and many more professional areas / faculties) don't study world history as part of their course, in any university..

Ironically, an understanding of hyperinflation and it's history and causes would lead you straight to a brief potted history of prewar Germany.

I would say the learning economics with little reference to political context is largely worthless.

[Thai at Heart]

It's easy to see that the dean is minimizing the incident. The artist was a 'freshman," The intention of the message was "good and bad heroes." This is a nonsensical reaction for a dean.

I do agree that this is a rather pathetic response.

And if the said University is acclaimed to be one of Thailand`s top end education facilities, than we have wonder as to the quality of Thailand`s education system as a whole? And it becomes clearer why Thais are lacking in their knowledge of both Thai and world history, as it seems that ignorance is bliss in that department.

I can't see how you can support this statement - it seems to be nothing but supposition. Could you explain the rationale behind it?

I have no intent to protect the overall image / quality of Chula, but let's remember that Finance students (just one example and many more professional areas / faculties) don't study world history as part of their course, in any university..

Ironically, an understanding of hyperinflation and it's history and causes would lead you straight to a brief potted history of prewar Germany.

I would say the learning economics with little reference to political context is largely worthless.

[wilcopops]

THere are several perspectives voiced on this thread largely by foreigners..........most of whom seem to think that the entire Thai population has only one perspective - that's bit of a non sequitur, isn't it?

Edited July 16, 2013 by wilcopops

[nahkit]

Silly, who's reporting this crap? Hey buddy, have you seen the Mural inside Denver, Colorado's airport? Political-correctness doesn't float here..and never will!

Yahoo UK are reporting it, they have it as one of the lead items on their news page.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/hitler-superhero-poster-forces-uni-apology-113146327.html#b55MUO1

[Netizen]

I am a Jew and the few Thais I do tell I am Jewish do not even know what a Jew is. I could not believe the first one I told I thought they were joking. I bet all the nationalities on here know what a Jew is, except if you are Thai. The Thai education is generally an insult to the people, keeping them uneducated to not take on in adult life the Thai elite. As many of my friends say Thais are only one step out of the jungle. But with internet access in most cities it is surprising they still don't know what a Jew is.

I would guess that 99.99% of Asians don't know what a Jew is. I would further venture that more than 50% of Western people have knowledge of the word itself and none or little other knowledge of Jews.

If you are so distressed by this you should start a campaign to teach Asians.

It doesn't help your cause to insult Thais for not having this knowledge.

"I would guess that 99.99% of Asians don't know what a Jew is." - and I would make an EDUCATED guess that you'd be wrong.

As with many on this thread , you have made a wild generalisation to give a baseless argument some

"color"

as many Jews live in asia and Asia covers from Europe to Japan your comment displays also a lack of geographical knowledge. However I feel you may be clinging to some naive and unsophisticated concepts of race and "innate" genetic differences that have been proven not to exist.

It is more likely, using your own words, that you are "clinging to some naive and unsophisticated concepts of race and "innate" genetic differences that have been proven not to exist".

For a start, to support your arguments tell me how many Jews live in Thailand. We can take it from there. I surmise you cannot even acquire that information.

[Thai at Heart]

 

Try and tell a Thai why it is inappropriate and wrong... and they will just tell you that foreigners have no right to tell them what to do because they were never colonised... their general benightedness knows no bounds...

I bet though, still, there are far more foreigners trying to tell thais what to do, and not do, than Thais going to a foreign country and approach total strangers on the street telling them what to do.

That is just proven by the law of averages.

20mn foreign visitors to Thailand every year. Only 60mn Thais.

 

View it this way instead.

There are far more foreigners percentagewise who goes to Thailand and try to lecture Thai people, than the opposite,

Sitting on Thaivisa cogitating the news of Thailand doesn't represent lecturing the Thai people. It's a members only discussion group. I don't think that is at all representative of the 20mn+ tourist visitors to Thailand.....

[Jingthing]

It is more likely, using your own words, that you are "clinging to some naive and unsophisticated concepts of race and "innate" genetic differences that have been proven not to exist".

For a start, to support your arguments tell me how many Jews live in Thailand. We can take it from there. I surmise you cannot even acquire that information.

In any case, Jews are not a race and never were a race. Jewish is a religion and also represents a people. The majority of Jews fit into different ethnic groups. Ethnicity is NOT race. The majority are Ashkenazim (more German and Eastern European origin). Another large group are Sephardim (more Latino). Also the Mizrahim, Jews of the East (from places like Iraq and North Africa, etc.) and the Falasha (black Ethiopian Jews). In the U.S. now with so much intermarriage Jewish gatherings are now appearing much more like a rainbow with plenty of Asian faces too.

Edited July 16, 2013 by Jingthing

[radiochaser]

So a hollow apology was issued. Has the mural been removed?

The mural went up sometime after 8:30 am on Friday. The mural was there at 12:15 pm Friday. It, along with all the other trappings of the graduation were gone Monday morning.

[Zooheekock]

I am a Jew and the few Thais I do tell I am Jewish do not even know what a Jew is.

Why on earth should they? It's an extreme minority religion which has no bearing whatsoever on the life of all but a tiny handful of Thais. How many people in America or Europe know what a Jain is or what they believe or do?

[Zooheekock]

What's the point of apologising to presumably the Thai public as they have no idea who or what he was and even if they did they wouldn't give a monkey's ?

What's the point of my pointing out that racist nonsense like this is its own counter-argument? None, I suspect.

[Jingthing]

I am a Jew and the few Thais I do tell I am Jewish do not even know what a Jew is.

Why on earth should they? It's an extreme minority religion which has no bearing whatsoever on the life of all but a tiny handful of Thais. How many people in America or Europe know what a Jain is or what they believe or do?

I think many more Thais would know what Israel is because its a common destination for Thai guest workers. I generally don't bother telling Thais because frankly I think many Thais are extremely prejudiced against Indians and Arabs and I reckon many Thais would group Jews with those groups. It's more convenient to just be another f-rang.

[NCC1701A]

http://www.khaosod.co.th/en/view_newsonline.php?newsid=TVRNM016ZzRNemN3TkE9PQ==&catid=03

[radiochaser]

If I had known this was going to be in international news, I would have taken some pictures. I thought it was a very strange looking mural.

[yoshiwara]

The university would have picked up on the news that they were a laughing stock around the world and certainly in the academic community. Someone had to take the fall and the Dean it is who had to do the business. Not exactly an unreserved apology, but they won't pull that stunt again in a hurry.

[Netizen]

The university would have picked up on the news that they were a laughing stock around the world and certainly in the academic community. Someone had to take the fall and the Dean it is who had to do the business. Not exactly an unreserved apology, but they won't pull that stunt again in a hurry.

I hardly think anyone was laughing least of all the Simon Weisenthal Institute.

[Jingthing]

The university would have picked up on the news that they were a laughing stock around the world and certainly in the academic community. Someone had to take the fall and the Dean it is who had to do the business. Not exactly an unreserved apology, but they won't pull that stunt again in a hurry.

I hardly think anyone was laughing least of all the Simon Weisenthal Institute.

No. Some are laughing for sure.

[SCARLETIBIS1]

The thing is, if Thais were unaware of Hitler how did he appear on the mural. They somehow know he was famous but not sure what he was famous for. How can students at a top university create a mural of super heroes without quite knowing what it was they were heroic for. Same as the school where they all came dressed up and goose-stepping and Nazi saluting, they knew all that but were apparently completely unaware of what Hitler actually did. Ditto the fried chicken shop, the owner decided it was a iconic image but didn't bother to look into the background of someone they were going use for their branding. Complete empty-headedness or just utter lack of tact.

This is the same point I tried to make in an earlier post. Common sense tells you that whoever drew Hitler had to know he stood for something and since he stood for nothing good it had to be bad. But I keep getting my posts deleted when I use the term and get accused of cussing. Maybe a post on common sense alone is needed? That should be interesting.

Edited July 17, 2013 by SCARLETIBIS1

[BanTamo]

It's easy to see that the dean is minimizing the incident. The artist was a 'freshman," The intention of the message was "good and bad heroes." This is a nonsensical reaction for a dean.

I do agree that this is a rather pathetic response.

And if the said University is acclaimed to be one of Thailand`s top end education facilities, than we have wonder as to the quality of Thailand`s education system as a whole? And it becomes clearer why Thais are lacking in their knowledge of both Thai and world history, as it seems that ignorance is bliss in that department.

I can't see how you can support this statement - it seems to be nothing but supposition. Could you explain the rationale behind it?

I have no intent to protect the overall image / quality of Chula, but let's remember that Finance students (just one example and many more professional areas / faculties) don't study world history as part of their course, in any university..

Probably because a course that presumes to cover "world history" is more likely to be taught in high school. At least when I studied History at Cornell there was no such course. Maybe at some community college?

[Jingthing]

Yes, at least "highlights" of world history should be taught as a core curriculum much earlier than university. There is nothing at all wrong with Thai schools spending lots of time on Thai history but that doesn't justify leaving out the rest of the world entirely.

However, given the reality of large gaps in basic historical literacy of Thai students already at university, in Thailand's case it might be wise to include a core history requirement at that level for first year students.

Edited July 17, 2013 by Jingthing

[Bagwan]

Many complaining about this may remember Price Harry of the UK Parading around at a Uni party in Nazi regalia.

I presume he knew what he was doing!

i wouldn't count on it. The UK Royal Family's attitude to Nazi Germany was far less than hostile. The Duke of Windsor ( a passenger in any boat) wasn't the only one to walk to close to that evil mob.

[Bagwan]

John Lennon wanted to include an image of Hitler on their Sergent Peppers LP. All of the Beatles goosestepped on stage during their time in Hamburg. I think people got it. They knew it wasn't racist. I think many posters here are being angry-of-Tunbridge-Wells and really don't get it either.

I still have memories for Fat Hermann sending his lads over for 89 consecutive nights to bomb the life out of us. I still recall sitting in an underground air raid shelter with my school books on my lap. I still remember my mother crying because there was nothing in the larder to feed us kids. I remember empty shops and long queues when there were supplies. If you had such memories you may not be so crass and dismissive.There may well be those who suffered under German occupation who come to this board. It is shameful that you didn't take their take on events before posting. Even German folk accept that not only did the Allies free the occupied countries from the grip of a madman, but it freed them too.

[Bagwan]

I suggest that this Uni should organise some field trips to a museum in Kanchanaburi.

Perhaps you should go. Then you can see that what happened there was not related to Hitler. Doh!

I suggest that Japan would not have dared to take on the US and the European powers unless every free country's attention was focused on what was going on in Europe.

[Bagwan]

Try and tell a Thai why it is inappropriate and wrong... and they will just tell you that foreigners have no right to tell them what to do because they were never colonised... their general benightedness knows no bounds...

If they are that enlightened how come they don't know the Chinese have been colonising Thailand for a couple of hundred years or more. Or asian colonisation is ok?

But what on earth do you mean? Thai people believe they are Chinese people. They believe they get the vast majority of their culture from China, including: their food (especially curry), their religion, their medicine, their language...

I beg to difer on all points.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curry#Curries_of_China Read and learn.