Best No Fee & Low-Fee Bank Cards for Americans 2013-

[SurfRider]

.

I recall one case where Schwab sent the new card via FedEx to the customer in Thailand - I'm not sure about the others, but will try to find out.

E-Trade did the same for me a few years ago when I had a problem. Two cards were sent via FedEx at their expense, but the problem was an erroneous closing of my accounts due to their security people detecting what they thought was a hacking incident with one of my accounts-- so it was their fault - but it took 2 months to resolve.

On a related issue, I asked Schwab if I could get a duplicate debit card and they said no. For security reasons, they won't issue duplicate cards. I told them that I spend a lot of time in Asia and didn't want to risk losing a card or finding out that it wouldn't work in an ATM because of a card malfunction. They said that they deal with replacing cards overseas all the time and always accommodate customers as fast as they can.

One friend here opened secondary Schwab Checking and Brokerage accounts as a hedge against this potential problem.

.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

SR, can you explain what you mean about opening "secondary" Schwab accounts? In the same individual's name or some other person's name?

I don't know that I've ever encountered that issue... But when it came to the same kind of brokerage account, Schwab One for example, I would have presumed they would have said one per named individual.

Different kinds of accounts, that I can easily understand. A brokerage account, an IRA account, a Roth account, etc. But two of the same kind?

Edited August 5, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[SurfRider]

.

"But two of the same kind?"

Yes, PRECISELY, and using the same name and address. He opened secondary accounts that are exact duplicates (different account numbers, of course) of his first Checking and Brokerage accounts. I've been intending to do the same, but haven't yet gotten around to it.

Doesn't seem that strange to me. What if you wanted to have several Brokerage accounts at the same Broker to contain different types of investments? I've had two Brokerage accounts at E-Trade for years - never been questioned.

.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Not strange that someone would have reason to want to do it... Just surprised that the brokerage would allow it, for the same type of account and the same account holder.

But it's good to hear that it's possible, because I can certainly see the reasons for wanting to do so. Live, read and learn...

[Pib]

I have a TD Ameritrade account and called them regarding their debit card. I called twice, 1st call to get information then 2nd call to confirm the information. Of course, I got 2 different answers regarding their foreign transaction fee. The 1st rep said, there was no fee, while the 2nd rep said there was a 1% fee. Add the possibility that like Fidelity, we are told there is a 1% visa fee but actually the fee is not passed to us. I am hoping someone has used their debit card overseas and can clarify their fee policy.

As much as I hated what Schwab did, I really miss their card. It was the Emperor of DCs.

"If" you already have their debit card just give it a test. Go to an AEON ATM, withdraw Bt500, and then see if a separate 1% fee or a 1% lower exchange rate charge hits your account...worst case you get hit with 1% in fees which amounts to a 5 baht (16 cents) fee/lower exchange rate to do the test. But if you don't already have their debit card and don't want it if it does have a 1% fee, or not in Thailand/overseas right now to do a test I can understand your question.

I don't have their DC or I would have tried a test as you suggested.

Btw, the least you can withdraw from Aeon is 1000B, at one of the CM ATM machines. I tried to squeeze out another 500B due to the slightly weaker baht but it returned with " only enter increments of a 1000B"

OK was able to give it try today at my friendly AEON ATM in western Bangkok...you are right about only 1,000 baht increments. On the first/express screen the lowest amount allowed is 1000 baht and the max 7,000 baht. I then go to the Withdrawal/Other selection where you enter the specific amount you want. When I tried any entry other than a 1000 increment, it rejected the entry. And if I remember right at the top of the screen where you enter the amount you want, it said only 1,000 baht increment entries like you said above.

Shows how attentive I've been in the past...but whenever I use an AEON ATM I usually just get either 10K, 15K, 20K, or 30K...until today I never tried a non-1000 baht increment.

Now, I need to fine that other post or two about AEON apparently changing its max withdrawal from 30K to 20K baht...that happened to me today also...the last time I had used this machine was 8 July and I got 30K in one withdrawal which was after other posters said they had been limited to 20K...but today I was also limited to 20K per transaction...I still got 30K which takes me real close to my debit card daily limit of $1,000, but I had to do two withdrawals of 20K and 10K.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Now, I need to fine that other post or two about AEON apparently changing its max withdrawal from 30K to 20K baht...that happened to me today also...the last time I had used this machine was 8 July and I got 30K in one withdrawal which was after other posters said they had been limited to 20K...but today I was also limited to 20K per transaction...I still got 30K which takes me real close to my debit card daily limit of $1,000, but I had to do two withdrawals of 20K and 10K.

Told ya!

Edited August 5, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[taxout]

"Citibank 'officially' doesn’t charge if you are a CITI customer and it is a CITI branch outside of USA BUT in practice this is not the case. I have banked with them for 10 years and have pulled money from over 30 countries. They ALWAYS charge the fee of 3%… after numerous complaints and escalating the issue, their response has always been that the foreign atms are 'separate legal entities' and not CITIBANK USA therefore subject to the 3%"

I'm glad I'm not the only one fed up with lies from Citibank on these charges. And they are lies, because their overseas operations are not all "separate legal entities." "No fees worldwide at Citibank with your Citibank Card." Pure hogwash, and the bank's ripe for a class action suit.

I pulled my money from Citibank US over this.

Edited August 5, 2013 by taxout

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I explored Citibank Thailand when I first arrived here, thinking there might be some advantage to a bank with a presence in both the U.S. and Thailand.

Unfortunately, I found none, unless I was prepared to plunk down a ton of cash with them and qualify for a Citi Gold account or something higher.... And I saw no reason to give them essentially free use of my funds, for getting very little in return.

[thecheesestandsalone]

Do you recall, what date/time in local Thailand time you actually made the two withdrawals? And were they back-to-back or spread apart in actual time?

The updated results you post make more sense, since supposedly, the Cap One 360 FCF fee is something less than 1% (between 0.2% and 1%), though Cap One 360 apparently is not disclosing exactly what it is off the standard MC card network rate.

And obviously, from your post, you were able to successfully use the Cap One 360 debit card in an AEON ATM without any problem. So that's now a second confirming post from a Cap One 360 cardholder that those cards are OK with AEON -- unlike the regular Cap One debit cards that have been problematic.

That ought to make at least some folks feel better about using a Cap One 360 MC debit card here in Thailand.

Nonetheless, with the lower exchange rate of MC-logo cards (vs. VISA) and Cap One 360 passing along even a smaller card network fee, 360 cardholders are still leaving money on the table compared to using the no-FCF VISA debit cards out there.

It was in the afternoon or early evening I think but do not recall the exact time. I did use one card after the other so it was within a minute or two for each transaction.

Glad both cards work though there always seems to be a very long line at the Aeon bank we use while all the other banks' ATMs in the area are empty.

[fletchsmile]

I've never really been a fan of Citibank, and agree these type of practices are at best annoying.

There is an interesting twist to the "separate legal entity" issue that you might not have been aware of that actually worked in your favour here in Thailand a few years back. Not down to Citi though, who would have probably happily ripped you off as much as possible if need be, but down to the local regulator Bank of Thailand looking after your interests here.

You probably weren't aware of it, but back in the financial crisis when US banks were collapsing and the whole US system had doubts around it, Bank of Thailand stepped in and made it very clear to Citibank in Thailand that they wouldn't tolerate Citi Thailand shipping funds back to the parent company in the US that might be at the expense of Thai customers, and might put Thai based customers at risk just to cover their massive US problems.

This is actually a good example of where a local subsidiary of an international bank can sometimes offer benefits. They are effectively subject to "home" regulation in the US and "host" regulation in Thailand at the same time. BOT were not standing for any nonsense on this issue, even tho' US regulation was failing.

In reverse, should it happen Citi Thailand has problems, although Citi US may not have a legal obligation to prop up an overseas subsidiary in Thailand, reputational and moral issues come into play to increase the likelihood. Not saying by any means an overseas subsid is better, just that there are additional factors and sometimes protections out there many people don't realise. This sort of thing can hold true with other financial industry firms as well. Worth pause for thought when people complain of weak regulation in Thailand compared to global standards...

Cheers

Fletch

[fletchsmile]

I've never really been a fan of Citibank, and agree these type of practices are at best annoying.

There is an interesting twist to the "separate legal entity" issue that you might not have been aware of that actually worked in your favour here in Thailand a few years back. Not down to Citi though, who would have probably happily ripped you off as much as possible if need be, but down to the local regulator Bank of Thailand looking after your interests here.

You probably weren't aware of it, but back in the financial crisis when US banks were collapsing and the whole US system had doubts around it, Bank of Thailand stepped in and made it very clear to Citibank in Thailand that they wouldn't tolerate Citi Thailand shipping funds back to the parent company in the US that might be at the expense of Thai customers, and might put Thai based customers at risk just to cover their massive US problems.

This is actually a good example of where a local subsidiary of an international bank can sometimes offer benefits. They are effectively subject to "home" regulation in the US and "host" regulation in Thailand at the same time. BOT were not standing for any nonsense on this issue, even tho' US regulation was failing.

In reverse, should it happen Citi Thailand has problems, although Citi US may not have a legal obligation to prop up an overseas subsidiary in Thailand, reputational and moral issues come into play to increase the likelihood. Not saying by any means an overseas subsid is better, just that there are additional factors and sometimes protections out there many people don't realise. This sort of thing can hold true with other financial industry firms as well. Worth pause for thought when people complain of weak regulation in Thailand compared to global standards...

Cheers

Fletch

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

HSBC had been here for years...and Citi is still here, although in the similarly limited fashion.

But in the day to day things that matter for average bank customers, they both pretty much operated under local Thai banking rules, as probably is required and would be expected.

Thus, even though their parent organizations are based outside Thailand, and in the case of Citi that being the U.S., none of the day to day consumer banking protections that U.S. Citi customers get are extended to Citi Thailand-based accounts.

Conversely, if you have a U.S. bank-based account with Citi or any of the others but are using your U.S. bank cards overseas such as in Thailand, most of the important the U.S. consumer protection laws and protections apply to your transactions, even though they're being done outside the U.S.

By that, I mean protections against unauthorized credit and debit card charges, protections against bankcard fraud, protections against liability in the event of lost or stolen cards, even getting your funds restored in the event of a faulty ATM transaction.

There's many reasons, from a consumer standpoint, that U.S.-based accounts are better than their Thai counterparts.

[fletchsmile]

You're mixing up consumer protection and central bank regulations again - which was the point being made.

BOT stepped in to protect Citibank Thailand customers in terms of capital adequacy and liquidity issues, from possible failure of Citibank US, and the possible collapse of the US/western banking system and possible issue of US govt not being able to bail out all the banks. If you'll recall banks were too scared to lend to each other

At that time, while the US may have had stronger consumer protection laws than Thailand (and still does), the much bigger issue was financial strength of the banks. I don't disagree at all on your consumer protection points. Simply highlighting that in the bigger picture, particularly in 2008/9/10 whether your bank (and banking system) would still be around tomorrow was a bigger issue for 99% of customers than claiming back unauthorized debit charges.

Edit: BTW if you google say "HSBC Basel II/ III, home/ host regulatory issues" for example you'll get an idea/ flavour of how FSA/PRA expectations can affect Thailand. Very different than consumer protection laws you are referring to.

I understand you've invested a lot of time in learning and understanding consumer protection issues, and understanding the wider regulatory environment will help you understand that life isn't necessarily so black and white when it comes to good bank/ bad bank analysis.

In a nutshell US banks often come out well in terms of consumer protection. They often come out poorly in terms of capital adequacy and other risk based metrics - which the recent financial crisis highlighted. The whole prudential regulatory regime in the US is somewhat confused and mixed up at the moment. Thai banks come out less well for consumer protection, but rode the financial crisis very well in terms of capital adequacy and liquidity.

Hope that clarifies

Fletch

Edited August 5, 2013 by fletchsmile

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Fletch, I don't disagree with you, but you're talking about issues bankers talk and debate about.

I'm talking about issues bank customers talk and worry about.

Nothing wrong with either topic. But I think the latter hits home more to the average customer.

For example, I don't really care, just at the personal level, if Bank A were to fail in the U.S., because I know that my deposits are guaranteed by the government/FDIC. And in most cases, the FDIC arranges for a new successor bank to open within a day or two (usually over the weekend) to take over the assets/operations of the failed bank, and it's usually pretty seamless to the accountholder, provided they've stayed within FDIC limits. If they haven't, then they only have themselves to blame since the deposit insurance limits are very well known and understood.

Only in very rare cases is the FDIC unable to find a successor bank, and in those cases, checks are mailed to the account holders in a pretty short period of time. The FDIC AFAIK has never defaulted on its obligations to protect accountholders in its entire history.

That's a track record I'm perfectly willing to rely on... a whole lot more than anything or anyone in the Thai banking system. The most important thing for an accountholder is: Is my money safe (not just from failed banks but also from fraud) and will I get it restored quickly and without hassle in the event I or my bank has a problem?

Doesn't get much more basic or important than that. And if the question is choosing between banks in the U.S. or Thailand on that score, the U.S. wins every time.

Edited August 5, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[JimGant]

I recall one case where Schwab sent the new card via FedEx to the customer in Thailand - I'm not sure about the others, but will try to find out.

Yeah, there have been other examples of Schwab sending you their card, via FedEx, to a foreign address.

This is total bull, if their policy is such that you can’t open accounts with foreign IPs without in-person verification, they should’ve blocked the application until it was verified. However they let me open it, transferred in money, even ACATS in stocks from another brokerage account. They also sent me a box of checks and even sent me the debit/ATM card via FedEx to Taiwan! I could access the account online and with the iPhone app, used the ATM card as normal for almost a month, AND THEN locked me out of everything all the sudden without warnings.See here: http://blog.andrewng.com/2012/11/11/i-take-it-all-back-about-charles-schwab-onward-with-fidelity/

Anyway, most of us using Schwab haven't been kicked in the groin -- as of yet. But, the bits and pieces here and there suggest their policy towards expats is not solidified. Thus, "what's in your wallet" should include various models of plastic. And, this thread is exactly about what the best of those models are.

Edited August 6, 2013 by JimGant

[vagabond48]

I had a couple of my schwab debit cards mailed here. They did it just by a phone request. The last time, they asked that I fax the request in. I don't recall it they also accepted a signed email request.

[taxout]

Perhaps it depends on the representative.

I've asked Schwab to have a replacement card sent overseas, and while I didn't press the matter, it was clear they didn't want to do it.

Edited August 6, 2013 by taxout

[fletchsmile]

Fletch, I don't disagree with you, but you're talking about issues bankers talk and debate about.

I'm talking about issues bank customers talk and worry about.

Nothing wrong with either topic. But I think the latter hits home more to the average customer.

For example, I don't really care, just at the personal level, if Bank A were to fail in the U.S., because I know that my deposits are guaranteed by the government/FDIC. And in most cases, the FDIC arranges for a new successor bank to open within a day or two (usually over the weekend) to take over the assets/operations of the failed bank, and it's usually pretty seamless to the accountholder, provided they've stayed within FDIC limits. If they haven't, then they only have themselves to blame since the deposit insurance limits are very well known and understood.

Only in very rare cases is the FDIC unable to find a successor bank, and in those cases, checks are mailed to the account holders in a pretty short period of time. The FDIC AFAIK has never defaulted on its obligations to protect accountholders in its entire history.

That's a track record I'm perfectly willing to rely on... a whole lot more than anything or anyone in the Thai banking system. The most important thing for an accountholder is: Is my money safe (not just from failed banks but also from fraud) and will I get it restored quickly and without hassle in the event I or my bank has a problem?

Doesn't get much more basic or important than that. And if the question is choosing between banks in the U.S. or Thailand on that score, the U.S. wins every time.

I'd say they were issues that educated people think about these days. The key point is not to be overly focused on consumer protection laws alone and look at the bigger picture. Yes they are weaker in Thailand, but nowhere near as bad as people would have you believe either. When frauds are highlighted in the press or on the web for example that draws attention - bad news sells - no-one bothers with the resolution which happens. You're overly focused on the less than 1% of accounts where you've heard half a story.

How many people do you know that have left Thailand because of being financially disadvantaged by a consumer protection issue - to the extent they could no longer afford to live here?

On the other hand leaving your cash in a US bank, which earns less interest than in Thailand, in a currency that is in long term decline has seen many people leave Thailand because they can no longer afford to live here. They thought there money was "safer" in US banks (which according to consumer protection it is), but it leaves them exposed to interest rate risk and currency risk. I know quite a few people who underestimated this risk, kept their money "safe" back home and have now had to leave. I personally know no-one who has been defrauded by their Thai bank and not been compensated.

If you look transaction by transaction on how to save fees, ATM 150 baht, that's usually the small stuff. What you've missed is a ball park 30% decline of the USD vs THB since 31 Dec 2000, and lower US interest rates too for a double whammy. While you might be getting a slightly better rate or fee, its on a decreasing rate trend. In Dec 2000 someone might save 0.X% on USD 43.4 but today your getting just over USD 31 because they were too scared to put money in Thailand.

Now going forward, the US is gradually losing importance as the bank's reserve currency (people looking for alternatives), US has more debt than it can service, QE, weak economy, capital needed for Basel III, low interest rates for the foreseeable future. The government is also still looking at ways to raid your pension funds and savings one way or another.

To not put some money in Thailand because you fear the consumer protection laws, ignores much bigger risks, which are relevant to every day people. Myself I have money where I came from, money in Thailand, and money offshore - which means I also don't worry about all these small fees - because I educated myself about all the risks in all the countries.

Cheers

Fletch

Edited August 7, 2013 by fletchsmile

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Dunno about you, but I get better interest rates on my bank funds in the U.S. than I would in Thailand...

2.5 - 3% rewards checking accounts, fully liquid and FDIC insured, available for new accounts now..

longer-term 4-5% CDs, fully FDIC insured (admittedly, not available for new accounts now)...

Currency risk is a legitimate issue, but in the end, it doesn't matter much if you place your funds in a banking system where your money isn't safe and secure from theft, fraud and loss (meaning THAILAND). That's the BIGGEST picture.

150/180 baht Thai ATM withdrawal fees, annual card renewal and replacement charges, exhorbitant credit card interest rates, total lack of consumer protections and unfriendly bank staff and processes are just insults on top of underlying injury.

Edited August 7, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[fletchsmile]

Dunno about you, but I get better interest rates on my bank funds in the U.S. than I would in Thailand...

2.5 - 3% rewards checking accounts, fully liquid and FDIC insured, available for new accounts now..

longer-term 4-5% CDs, fully FDIC insured (admittedly, not available for new accounts now)...

Currency risk is a legitimate issue, but in the end, it doesn't matter much if you place your funds in a banking system where your money isn't safe and secure from theft, fraud and loss (meaning THAILAND).

Just curious, how many people do you personally know that have loss money from fraud or theft in Thailand, where you think the person was of reputable character, so you would believe 100% their story, and where it was not eventually resolved? Have you any first hand experience of this?

To say your money "isn't safe in Thailand" is a rather narrow/ close minded and uneducated view of someone overly focused on a small part of a much bigger picture, with at best half a view.

As highlighted it has lost you 30% of your net worth/ value in the last decade or so, or 25% in the last 8 years. If for you that's a worthwhile cost for you to sleep at night though - each to their own and go for it...

Fletch

Edited August 7, 2013 by fletchsmile

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Bangkok Bank Will Not Payback Fraudulent Pos Transactions W/Stolen Atm Card

http://www.thaivisa....tolen-atm-card/

Worker Withdraws 9 MillionTHB From Krung Thai Bank

http://www.pattayada...rung-thai-bank/

Chonburi Lady Loses 15,000 THB To Faulty Bank ATM

http://www.pattayada...aulty-bank-atm/

Must Read---- How My Friend Lost 15K Baht W His Bangkok Bank Debit Visa

http://www.thaivisa....ank-debit-visa/

Multi Million ATM Fraud 2 Frenchmen Arrested

http://www.pattayada...hmen-arrested/\

Nonthaburi Millionaire Reports 107 Million Baht Missing From Her Bank Account

http://www.pattayada...r-bank-account/

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Fletch, if you want to continue this debate, there are other TV threads more appropriate to the subject... including:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/483106-banking-for-americans-in-thailand-101/

Otherwise, let's bring this thread back to its stated topic... no and low-fee U.S. bank cards for use abroad.

[fletchsmile]

So just what you've read. As mentioned resolution of these stories doesn't make news. The first thread posted has only a half accurate title, and I recall it. BTW Believe it or not the US system goes wrong from time to time and makes news too

But generally as suspected you've no first hand experience whatsoever- just what you've "heard" or "read".

[Pib]

So just what you've read. As mentioned resolution of these stories doesn't make news. The first thread posted has only a half accurate title, and I recall it. BTW Believe it or not the US system goes wrong from time to time and makes news too

But generally as suspected you've no first hand experience whatsoever- just what you've "heard" or "read".

Yea, stuff a person has heard or read is never true, not to imply a person should believe everything they hear or read. I just wish I could find a complete Terms and Conditions document (in English) online for a Thai credit or debit card which details consumer/fruad protection details. I've yet to find one...would much appreciate a link to one.

[fletchsmile]

So just what you've read. As mentioned resolution of these stories doesn't make news. The first thread posted has only a half accurate title, and I recall it. BTW Believe it or not the US system goes wrong from time to time and makes news too

But generally as suspected you've no first hand experience whatsoever- just what you've "heard" or "read".

Yea, stuff a person has heard or read is never true, not to imply a person should believe everything they hear or read. I just wish I could find a complete Terms and Conditions document (in English) online for a Thai credit or debit card which details consumer/fruad protection details. I've yet to find one...would much appreciate a link to one.

Perhaps it's with the Thai version of the FDIC, Dorothy

[Pib]

So just what you've read. As mentioned resolution of these stories doesn't make news. The first thread posted has only a half accurate title, and I recall it. BTW Believe it or not the US system goes wrong from time to time and makes news too

But generally as suspected you've no first hand experience whatsoever- just what you've "heard" or "read".

Yea, stuff a person has heard or read is never true, not to imply a person should believe everything they hear or read. I just wish I could find a complete Terms and Conditions document (in English) online for a Thai credit or debit card which details consumer/fruad protection details. I've yet to find one...would much appreciate a link to one.

Perhaps it's with the Thai version of the FDIC, Dorothy

Where ever it is it sure ain't in Kansas or in Over the Rainbow Land (Thailand). Plus, I've never seen a full Thai version online either...just looking for that link. The only thing I've seen in Thai or English is what appeared may be extracts of certain brief portions...portions that didn't address anything about consumer/fraud protection....still looking.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Pib, I've posted and linked to those kinds of documents here a few times in the past from a couple different Thai banks. They are out there, but they're very hard to find on the banks' websites, if they're there at all.

Basically, as most of us here already know, the Thai bank T&C documents say that the cardholder is liable for anything that happens with their card up until the time, or 5 minutes after the time, that the cardholder has notified the bank their card is lost, stolen, compromised or used fraudulently, etc etc.

Doesn't matter if you had no way of knowing there was a problem coming. Doesn't matter if you did absolutely nothing wrong. Doesn't matter if you notified the bank as soon as you humanly could do so. If the debit/charge hits your account before you've notified the bank to freeze/cancel your card, the bank's position is you as the accountholder are responsible.

It's bad enough that the Thai banks take that kind of position, whereby if someone's card is skimmed and used totally through no fault of their own, the Thai banks will hold the cardholder responsible.

But what's even worse is in cases where the banks' own employees have looted the customers accounts, as in some of the examples I posted above, the banks seem take the position that they are not responsible, that it was criminal acts by those individuals (their employee(s)), and therefore the victimized accountholders need to pursue the matter with the Thai police. And you know how that's going to go...

Over the Rainbow Land indeed!

Edited August 7, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[fletchsmile]

Don't forget the other half of the story though. While Thai banks will not automatically accept liability for anything before being reported, this does not mean they will not see your problem rectified or accept liability at a later stage. Where you write "doesn't matter" actually they will consider it and it does matter

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Personally, I've never had money stolen from my Thai bank accounts, because I don't and won't keep enough money in them to enable any theft.

Unfortunately, quite a few other ThaiVisa members can't say the same. Here's just a sampling of what they've reported on Thai banking "consumer protection":

I had my TMB ATM card stolen a few years ago. Within 5 minutes the thieves had run up a bill of 56,000 baht in a local shop, even though the card said "for electronic use only". Bank denied responsibility, and police did very little (probably should have offered the copper a reward). After being very angry for a few days, I just used it as a learning experience. After all "it's only money" and "nobody die".

Edited by eyebee, 2011-11-20 15:21:05.

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A friend of mine has a savings account at the Bangkok Bank for sole use of receiving funds from the U.K. 4,000 GBP every three months. There was no ATM card issued for this account.

Then just last week, spurious withdrawals of 1000/2000/5000 Baht had been made and were shown updated in the passbook.
Because he is 'farang' no real action has been taken and the financial losses have not be recognised. They are still under 'investigation'.
I would imagine that in the U.K. it would be rectified quickly. I wonder just how 'safe' Thai banks are. I am now considering reducing my account levels, or else opening five or six more accounts at different banks to spread the risk.

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PHUKET: -- German expat Dirk Schmidt had B600,000 skimmed from his Kasikornbank account in early January, and more than four months later is still waiting for developments in the case.

The money was taken from his account on January 5, 6 and 7 this year – B200,000 each day, his account’s daily withdrawal limit. Bank records show the money was taken in around 30 different transactions, at three different ATMs on Koh Samui, while Mr Schmidt was in Phuket.

-------------------------------------

Best of luck with this bank policy. I had 50,000 baht skimmed about 18 months ago from Kasikorn bank and I had really no explanation or interest from them in my loss. Too bad was their reaction. I cancelled my ATM card and only use my book for transactions. Sure it's a pain, but better than the worry about fraud.

------------------------------------

I found SCB totally useless when I had my card stolen and used fraudulently to take 20k out of my account - thankfully that's all that was in there - 2 years ago. Had a police report to prove my wallet was stolen before the transactions were made but SCB refused to cancel my card when I went into the branch the moment it opened as I couldn't give them my account number (I was on Samui and didn't take my Bangkok branch bank book on holiday) and they "couldn't find me" on the system!!

Edited August 7, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[fletchsmile]

Bit silly posting a few links to complaints with one side of the story, and extending to say there is no protection and your money is not safe. You can google any bank in the world and see customer complaints, plenty of cases where US accounts had been hacked and account holders have either suffered the loss or taken years to get a bank to settle. It may be better than Thailand, but it would be naive to believe half the story read on the web or in a newspaper is representative. The "because I'm a farang" line is just laughable

If you're not satisfied with your bank as first point of call - you can go to the regulator. The last data I remember reading from the BOT's Financial Consumer Protection Centre which deals with complaints about things like fraud, ATM issues etc, claimed that over 90% (can't remember exact numbers) of the issues raised with them had been resolved. That's a very good ratio in my book for something that you say doesn't exist.

BTW Pib/John As for wanting more information, have you ever actually contacted BOT or the Financial Consumer Protection Centre? What did they say when you contacted them and wanted to learn more? You have contacted them right?

Cheers

Fletch