Thailand urged to tackle dark side of 'Land of Smiles'

[zydeco]

It'd be nice if there were some American voices airing criticisms and concerns too. This guy Lipman does a much, much better job than the U.S. ambassador, who not only fails to address these problems publicly, but went out of her way to thank Phuket's police force. Lipman sounds like he represents EU citizens first, whereas the U.S. government places its own affairs (like the so-called war on drugs) above the needs of its citizens.

Pivot To Asia

I would be surprised to hear the US criticizing any Pacific allies right now.

That's right. Yours is a better explanation. With regard to Thailand's strategic importance, the war on drugs is so very 20th century compared to countering China's influence. .

The American ambassador -that lady is so nice it's unbelievable--too nice. Every interview given she goes out of her way to promote Thailand very rare a criticism, of all the dark sided things to speak out about, I get the impression she has a cushy job and doesn't want to ruffle feathers. couldn't she tackle the tourist problems and help???

She was the ambassador to the Philippines before coming to here. Could be that Bangkok looks like heaven compared to Manila.

[pomchop]

OMG !!!! This is what myself and some TV posters have been talking about for many years ..... How refreshing to see these points of views being aired in the national media. Wait, does this mean the writer will have to go back to his home country if he points out these problems here ??

Funny to see Phuket pointed as a problem area. Guess mafia control of the island is not going so well. They have managed to well and truly kill the golden goose, as many people have predicted . And the mafia there will learn another valuable lesson, which is once you develop a bad reputation it is almost impossible to fix it. The jet ski scam, which is always pointed out in articles like this one, could be stopped in one day if the government chose to do so. Instead they are in it up to their necks, which makes their statements about stopping the scam even more humorous.. Stopping lady boys drugging customers will be a bit more difficult. :-)

I agree the jet ski scam could be stopped in a matter of days IF IF IF they wanted to do so...in fact maybe they should just OUTLAW the damn things period like many other beach resorts have done. Sitting on a beach used to be somewhat about peace and quiet and not about listening to a bunch of idiots roar around on waterised motorbikes or having to dodge them if you go for a swim.

The tuk tuk and taxi ripoffs could also be stopped IF IF IF they wanted to....set the fares at REASONABLE rates for openers....a crappy little no a/c tuk tuk ride along patong beach should not cost more than a New York City taxi cab.....taxi drivers in Phuket complaining that they ONLY make 3000 + baht a day is absurd in a country where the average daily wage is maybe 300 baht.....

of course Bangkok could also stop the grand palace is closed scam that has been going on for DECADES and has about a zillion posts online that describe the same ole scam day after day year after year complete with details and pictures....

it seems to idea of trying to use the local police to stop the scams is like sending the fox to watch the chicken coop.....maybe they have to send in the military to attempt to get the police out of the mafia/scam business?

[NeverSure]

It'd be nice if there were some American voices airing criticisms and concerns too. This guy Lipman does a much, much better job than the U.S. ambassador, who not only fails to address these problems publicly, but went out of her way to thank Phuket's police force. Lipman sounds like he represents EU citizens first, whereas the U.S. government places its own affairs (like the so-called war on drugs) above the needs of its citizens.

I am an American, and I agree that tourists should be warned in advance of the high number of scams and the high number of traffic deaths in Thailand. However, it is hard for the U.S. to complain to Thailand when there are over 10,000 handgun deaths in the U.S. and the American government cannot make it's citizens safer in their own country.

Thailand is extremely dangerous, and has ten times the per capita gun murder rate that the US has. Link

That's not even dealing with the robberies and the scams and road deaths and the corruption on the street, even by Thai police.

I would say there is plenty of reason for the US to warn its citizens about Thailand.

Gun deaths per capita, per 100,000 people by country:

Edited July 19, 2013 by NeverSure

[Mooner]

All of Thailands beach resorts are being ruined by plastic pollution. They just seen oblivious. 7/11 are the worst offenders. I dont need a bag for a bottle of water or a pack of cigarettes

[Salapoo]

It's getting worse and no one wants to take responsibility or ownership. In 10 years from now Thai tourism will consist of little more than loud arrogant badly dressed chinese tour groups, Russian criminals and great swathes of Indian men getting beaten up or ripped off in Pattaya and Patong.

Oh Thailand, think of what you could have been.

Sounds like Thais will be getting the main thing they want.

Money, money, money. Throw in a load of Westerners paying them salaries to live with them.

Success.

Edited July 19, 2013 by Salapoo

[NeverSure]

I don't know a single American other than me who has ever vacationed in Thailand. The discussions come down to danger and filth.

To be fair, it is a very long trip and there are other much closer places with great weather and even bar girls if that's of interest.

I realize that there are American expats in Thailand, but my unscientific observation is that they are far outnumbered by Europeans and Australians. I'm not sure that most European tourists are big spenders either, although they will certainly outspend the Chinese.

As for Thailand trying to attract the low spending Chinese, IMHO they are making a mistake. I spent all of April touring Isaan and I spent 30,000k on a car rental alone, not counting gas. I stayed in hotels and ate in restaurants and spent money like a real tourist.

I truly didn't add up the cost, but with airfare it was a major amount compared to a backpacker or a Chinese tour. Thailand is blowing it. They say they want higher end tourists, and then they offer filth, scams, corruption, danger, and all else that would drive them away.

Edited July 19, 2013 by NeverSure

[hellodolly]

Well for the most part I have to agree with the article.

How ever Thailand is a lot more than Phuket, Pattaya and Bangkok. TAT should promote that. Most westerners that know any thing about Thailand think those are the only places to go.

The one thing I had to mildly disagree on was

"Road traffic accidents and drownings are relatively common causes of injury among tourists in Thailand, where safety standards are generally poor."

While it is true the safety standards are not world class it is also true that for some reason people get to Thailand and leave all common sense at home. 35 years ago they had a 3 speed pedal bike so they figure that qualifies them to be a good motor bike rider. Or they have a big 1,000+cc motorcycle at home so that qualifies them to get on a little 125 cc motor bike with all the Thai motor bikers who zip in and out of places they couldent take their big bike into.

Not sure how well the flags are kept up on the beach. Guessing not very well but how many tourists even look for them.

As for people going to their embassies I hope they have one that gives a <deleted> about them. Not all of them do. Also who's fault is it. I know of two cases that turned to their embassies for help because of their own knowingly wrong doing and the door was shut in their face. England and Denmark to be exact.

Also it would be a big help to start cleaning up the illegal activities in Thailand with out giving a week or two notice that they are coming.

[noitom]

It's getting worse and no one wants to take responsibility or ownership. In 10 years from now Thai tourism will consist of little more than loud arrogant badly dressed chinese tour groups, Russian criminals and great swathes of Indian men getting beaten up or ripped off in Pattaya and Patong.

Oh Thailand, think of what you could have been.

The show is in its final act in Thailand.

[PoodMaiDai]

Nothing is going to change here. It is not in their nature to change or fix a problem, if you can even get them to admit there is a problem. Corruption has always been here and it will always be here. From the very top to the very bottom, corruption is deeply ingrained into their culture, as is violence.

The police are some of the biggest criminals in the country. Once you set that standard, it's all downhill from there.

[Nana Cowboy]

The typical American family doesn't even consider going to Thailand. "Thailand? huh, where's that?", the kids would say if someone brought it up. It's just not on the long list of vacation options. I lived that left for 15 years and Thailand was way out of my mind until a punter schooled me to come here for a visit. Euros and UKers seem to see only Thailand as an option. Strange as it's a big world out there and it's not like Thailand does any advertising?

[DocN]

There are no dark sides!

If you don't like it- go home!

[Kananga]

Euros and UKers seem to see only Thailand as an option.

No they don't. For younger tourists, India, South America the Balerics are all popular. For older tourists, Spain, other parts of Europe, The Caribbean, South Africa and a multitude of other places are popular. Not to mention good old Florida.

[StrandedBusinessPerson]

It's truly a sad situation that is obviously getting worse every year. But I feel safer visiting Tland than I do visiting the USA. I feel like loading up with ammo whenever I visit my old homeland.

Edited July 20, 2013 by StrandedBusinessPerson

[Thai at Heart]

The typical American family doesn't even consider going to Thailand. "Thailand? huh, where's that?", the kids would say if someone brought it up. It's just not on the long list of vacation options. I lived that left for 15 years and Thailand was way out of my mind until a punter schooled me to come here for a visit. Euros and UKers seem to see only Thailand as an option. Strange as it's a big world out there and it's not like Thailand does any advertising?

Bringing kids to Thailand is an enormous expense and a pain.

I would think Thailand has relatively few whole families visiting.

[SaamBaht]

It'd be nice if there were some American voices airing criticisms and concerns too. This guy Lipman does a much, much better job than the U.S. ambassador, who not only fails to address these problems publicly, but went out of her way to thank Phuket's police force. Lipman sounds like he represents EU citizens first, whereas the U.S. government places its own affairs (like the so-called war on drugs) above the needs of its citizens.

I'm glad when someone finally identifies the real reason Thailand has problems -- It's the Americans fault!!!

A tip of the hat sir.

[navara]

What I am about to write, might not be very nice towards most of all Thai people, but it is a fact. I will pass the criminal events and go to the Thai additute as it is for years. It's a culture thing where it all starts.

You can smile and wai so nice to me, but there is no respect or graditude. Western people are less then the dog and only allowed to bring the money. It is common that you lie to me and even betray has been done without any shame. It is obvious that "being selvish" rules here. Regret and shame only occure for a short moment and will leave to the land of forget, because any event will not be thought over, but forgetting is much easier so they never learned a thing. Most Thai have a short fuse, you're not allowed to tell the truth, they might loose there face. But they do not realize that they have lost there face already when they did wrong.

Because of those facts, it's so easy to become a real criminal. Ripp off those farang tourists... hahahahahaha... who cares?

And as you could see in many video's, there is allways a knive, gun, bat or many pals. Even in a barfight there is no honour.

I always say to friends:" think twice before you decide to visit Thailand, you will be lied to and betrayed, you might get robbed or even end up in a hospital or mortuary"

My excuse to all Thai who does not descride my words.

[freedom4life]

..start with banning those Thai online dating/buy-a-bride sites

[DiNiro]

There are a few TukTuk s on my soi that do nothing but scam tourists.

Watching them for years.

How many holidays have they ruined I wonder?

Same same for the taxied parked outside every hotel.

I reported them to the TAT but no reply.

[venturalaw]

It'd be nice if there were some American voices airing criticisms and concerns too.  This guy Lipman does a much, much better job than the U.S. ambassador, who not only fails to address these problems publicly, but went out of her way to thank Phuket's police force.  Lipman sounds like he represents EU citizens first, whereas the U.S. government places its own affairs (like the so-called war on drugs) above the needs of its citizens. 

 

 

 

 

not very many non punter American tourists come to Thailand. 

Unlike other vacation choices, when I was living Stateside there were virtually no advertisements regarding visiting Thailand. I heard about it word-of-mouth. Many places advertised- Ireland, China, Korea, Mexico - but I never saw an add for Thailand. I've been in Thailand since about 2007 so maybe the adds have changed since.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[thhMan]

Wow... just reading all the subjects in the Thailand News.... There is a general theme going on....

Seems like a bubble has broken and its panic stations with the Thai Government..... "What have we done"

The big question is... is it impactful enough now for the Thais to action it or does it need to get worse!

[freedom4life]

I've noticed lately, this is a common, recurring phrase now that seems to creep into a lot of AFP news stories here:

Thailand, where safety standards are generally poor.

Nice to see that AFP is finally beginning to catch on.

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Actually, if I was living back home still and knowing what I know, I would NOT come here as a tourist as I did in my original visits to Thailand...

Too much B.S., too many scams, too low quality of service in so many things. No legal system, no justice, no consumer safety.

But, I'm not a tourist, and instead I live a quiet home-centered life here, so I think I can pretty much avoid a lot of the c**p that goes on.

Don't and won't visit Phuket... avoid Pattaya... avoid tuk tuks... avoid jet skis and tour buses and minivans.. avoid Thai trains.. avoid touts, etc etc...

It's OK to lead a home-centered life. But if I was going to be out and around as a tourist, I'd wouldn't feel too good.

Now I just have to avoid getting electrocuted in the shower, killed by my wife, or poisoned by eating Thai rice.

Buy a nice motorcycle/scooter and cruise....gettin' betta!

[NoshowJones]

I have noticed a definate rise in violent crime towards foriegners in my area in Northern Thailand. Especially since the GFC crisis. Mostly Thais robbing farangs and using force to do so. Sometimes extreme force. I never used to be a supporter of people carrying weapons around on thier person but now I have changed that view. Now I never go out at night on foot without my little life insurance policy by my side.Strictly for defensive purposes of course.

I always carry my little life insurance attached to my belt when I am in the UK. But no need for it here in Thailand in my experience, but again, I have never been to the islands, mostly Bangkok, and I still say Thailand is a safe place for travelling if you stay sober and mind your own business.

[dluek]

A more accurate headline for this story would be "Don't go to Phuket".

People getting drugged in a crazy nightlife town like Patong? Please, it happens in bars all over the world, usually to people who leave their common sense at home.

In constant travels around Thailand over the last two years (though almost never to Phuket), I've - knock on wood - never encountered any of these problems. These problems usually happen to people who choose to go to sketchy places and act like idiots once they get there. With that said, there's no excuse for the behavior of a lot of people, foreigners and locals, in Phuket. That's why I avoid it. Good thing Thailand has so many other destinations that are so much better (and safer) anyway.

[GeorgeO]

It's getting worse and no one wants to take responsibility or ownership. In 10 years from now Thai tourism will consist of little more than loud arrogant badly dressed chinese tour groups, Russian criminals and great swathes of Indian men getting beaten up or ripped off in Pattaya and Patong.

Oh Thailand, think of what you could have been.

As I've noted several times before, the situation will not improve in Thailand until it gets its act together and creates a 'real' police force (the Keystone Cops would be a better alternative than what they currently have). The problem with this is, its unlikely to happen under a government which is itself totally crooked.

Since the country has nothing better than the current rabble posing as policemen, the various lawbreakers, thieves, robbers, killers and scam artists continue to feel that they can do what they want with impunity.

The police force needs a complete shake up, disposing of those who are incapable of carrying out their supposed role, those who are known to be involved with criminal factions, those who extort from locals and tourists alike, and numerous other aspects that I don't need to spell out to anyone here.

With a more capable, conscientious force, they can bring these issues under control, but I just can't see it happening any time soon. In the meantime, the lawbreakers of all descriptions are emboldened to do whatever they like.

[Larry001]

Agree with most posts 100% Its all been said. In 15 years this country will be in an economic mess. No tourists, no $. Its got much worst over past 12 months

[CIHUAHUA]

It is simple. If you show me you want me for a tourist and treat me right I will come. When I was in Poo-ket I felt like a sheep in the den of hungry wolves. I never got robbed but the hairs on the back of my neck stood up at times when I was walking alone on busy streets. What is not mentioned is the danger of walking on the side walks. Unmarked holes in the walkway, motor bikes parked where people are suppose to walk, over-priced tuk-tuks, dirty hotel rooms without towels, trash by the tonne on the beaches are just a few of the many problems that must be solved. Thailand wants a "higher class" of tourist and wants to do away with the "back-packers" and to do that Thailand must become a place where that kind of tourist wants to come for a reasonable price. Not all of the tourists come here for the LBFMs. I've, in the distant past, have told women that Thailand is a place where she could walk safly at night. Maybe that is not true anymore.

[Kananga]

It's getting worse and no one wants to take responsibility or ownership. In 10 years from now Thai tourism will consist of little more than loud arrogant badly dressed chinese tour groups, Russian criminals and great swathes of Indian men getting beaten up or ripped off in Pattaya and Patong.

Oh Thailand, think of what you could have been.

As I've noted several times before, the situation will not improve in Thailand until it gets its act together and creates a 'real' police force (the Keystone Cops would be a better alternative than what they currently have). The problem with this is, its unlikely to happen under a government which is itself totally crooked.

Since the country has nothing better than the current rabble posing as policemen, the various lawbreakers, thieves, robbers, killers and scam artists continue to feel that they can do what they want with impunity.

The police force needs a complete shake up, disposing of those who are incapable of carrying out their supposed role, those who are known to be involved with criminal factions, those who extort from locals and tourists alike, and numerous other aspects that I don't need to spell out to anyone here.

With a more capable, conscientious force, they can bring these issues under control, but I just can't see it happening any time soon. In the meantime, the lawbreakers of all descriptions are emboldened to do whatever they like.

And the tourists who came to Thailand for the culture, food and natural scenery and supported local Thai businesses will not return and be replaced by package tours of Russians, Chinese and Indians who just want a cheap holiday on a bus.

[thaidel48]

Well thats what you get for living in ghettos.. Sukhumvit , Pattaya ect . Any kind of herd animal can expect to be stalked by a few predators.

[Ianatlarge]

Ok, I am prepared to be flamed, blamed etc, but Thailand is not so bad. So a hundred or so dead beat ozis die every year, out of a million or so. So what? A lot of those idiots would be dead anyway. A few scams? Man up. Stop whining, or stay at home in front of the home entertainment console and watch other people do things. You never had it so good here.

[amarka]

Sure there are a lot of problems where there are a lot of tourists, I think this applies to anywhere in the world.

A lot of tourists are drunk (and drugged) and cause the Thai's a lot of problems too. The general behavior of many tourists leaves a lot to be desired, I mean the tourists are supposed to have money and come from generally better educated economies (the western tourists) but if you watch some of them, then you can see its only a matter of time, sometimes only hours before they get themselves into problems.

you can see the problems when they are arriving at the airport, the way they dress and behave - its hardly surprising that there is a reaction from the Thai side.

having said that, Thailand as a developing nation needs to fix its own issues, irrespective of the issues with foreign visitors.