19 dead in Thai bus smash: authorities

[soi41]

What a terrible way to die! Trapped in a burning bus.

And to all the Thaibashers show some respect and save your comments for another thread!

[bkkdawg]

If you have the money, FLY! Simple as that.

RIP to the deceased.

[Thai at Heart]

What a terrible way to die! Trapped in a burning bus.

And to all the Thaibashers show some respect and save your comments for another thread!

Tragic.

How big would an inferno like this have to be so that no one survived? Something not quite right here.

[louse1953]

"The truck crossed from the opposite lane of traffic and hit the bus," said local police officer Lieutenant Colonel Assavathep Janthanari, adding that a pickup truck behind the bus had also been involved in the crash."

Read again:

This has nothing to do with the safety standards of the bus or the pick-up truck,

If a cement truck is crossing the lane from the opposite direction, no safety standards can help you anymore.

The only safety that could have avoided this tragic accident would have been safety barriers in the middle of the road.

But that would have only shift the accident to the other side of the lane.

Wrong! There are many safety standards that come into play here. Was the truck overloaded? The news article says "cement truck" but we have no indication what that means. Was it an overloaded pickup? What about safety inspections for large trucks? What about driver training and qualification and standards such as keeping log books and restricting the number of hours one can drive? Those are safety standards in force in many countries. They are the law because of incidents such as this in those countries, including my own. Of course, we hear enforcement mentioned repeatedly, so I won't dwell on that. You are correct, however about the barrier, but that calls into question traffic engineering in this country. Traffic engineers here should be held accountable. They're criminally negligent.

How can you overload a cement truck,when it' full you can't fit any more in.

[deepcell]

Always sad to heard some bad news like that. RIP.

[belg]

RIP

hub of road accidents

[MikeEM]

As a tourist whose never traveled on these types of buses before, i'm assuming there are no safety briefings on how to open the windows in case of an emergency (assuming I'm not physically incapacitated)?

[Sayonarax]

Bus Smash?! Looks like a plane crash..

[Sayonarax]

"The truck crossed from the opposite lane of traffic and hit the bus," said local police officer Lieutenant Colonel Assavathep Janthanari, adding that a pickup truck behind the bus had also been involved in the crash."

Read again:

This has nothing to do with the safety standards of the bus or the pick-up truck,

If a cement truck is crossing the lane from the opposite direction, no safety standards can help you anymore.

The only safety that could have avoided this tragic accident would have been safety barriers in the middle of the road.

But that would have only shift the accident to the other side of the lane.

Wrong! There are many safety standards that come into play here. Was the truck overloaded? The news article says "cement truck" but we have no indication what that means. Was it an overloaded pickup? What about safety inspections for large trucks? What about driver training and qualification and standards such as keeping log books and restricting the number of hours one can drive? Those are safety standards in force in many countries. They are the law because of incidents such as this in those countries, including my own. Of course, we hear enforcement mentioned repeatedly, so I won't dwell on that. You are correct, however about the barrier, but that calls into question traffic engineering in this country. Traffic engineers here should be held accountable. They're criminally negligent.

How can you overload a cement truck,when it' full you can't fit any more in.

You have wonder about peoples logic some times louse.. Maybe he was carrying a shipment of gold coins instead?

[GentlemanJim]

What a terrible way to die! Trapped in a burning bus.

And to all the Thaibashers show some respect and save your comments for another thread!

Tragic.

How big would an inferno like this have to be so that no one survived? Something not quite right here.

Big enough for the bus to have been reduced to it's bare metal, as described in the OP. What many people miss is that in a fire such as this, substandard materials such as the fabrics that seats are made of, give off highly toxic smoke. One or two good lung fulls of black toxic smoke and you are a gonner! Almost instant incapacitation will take place where you are unable to orientate yourself, there is an automatic breath reflex to get clean air quickly, which simply means ingesting more toxic smoke and bam, you are not getting out of any crashed bus, regardless of how strong or clever you are. You need someone to pull you out or next you will die (hopefully before the burning starts.

I am making a big assumption at this moment but is it likely the bus was packed with propane tanks? Most are and most trucks have 10 or 12 of them behind the cabins.

Edited July 23, 2013 by GentlemanJim

[britinthai]

I'm currently working in Oman, where they had the worlds worst fatal accident rate. Over a period of one year they have installed new technology speed cameras; it is reported there is a significant decrease in fatal accidents. The Thai police rely on traffic violating fines, get out of trouble pay-offs, drug dealing etc to line their own pockets, and to build mansions for the high level guys. Therefore until the Thai police stop cheating the people and use controlling transparent technology then these type of accidents will continue. You will here a spokesman say how sad this is and we are going to implement measures to provide a safer arena for the public. But when it comes down to reality the colour of money always comes before the safety of the public; change this culture first.

[catweazle]

RIP to the victims and families, full recovery to the injured. Another grim reminder instructing us to use airplanes for long distance travel in Thailand if budget allows. My family and I haven't set foot in a public coach or mini bus in Thailand for a full decade now. Whenever we have to go anywhere, we either go with our own car or take a budget flight.

I remember that I woke up once in a so called VIP coach, travelling from Bangkok to Surat - wished I would have stayed asleep since what I saw made my blood freeze. Within a period of 30 minutes we had at least 3 close calls, one with another coach that came straight at us on our side of the highway crossing in opposite direction to cut through a u-turn to his lane. Our driver almost lost control of the bus and you could hear horns honking all over the place. It ws like in one of those "Final Destination" horror movies... We later took the train back to Bangkok - but as latest developments showed, this is not a very safe option either... In the end - when our time's up, it's up - not much we can do about it, but we don't have to invite death by using public transport, given that our budget allows.

[JLCrab]

I am very sorry for all concerned -- I know that Saraburi area well traveling on the bus route. Someone earlier in this topic said: There is nothing for a farang to do. Only one thing maybe: Try not to ride buses or travel on the roads at all during the late night hours through early morning hours.

Edited July 23, 2013 by JLCrab

[cheeryble]

First time I got on a Green Bus (CM to CR) I noticed a painted position next to the rear emergency door where a breakout tool was missing from the wall.
I politely asked the hostess where the tool was.
"Oh"
.....and she went wandering around the driver compartment looking under things. Later she came back but said nothing.
"So what about the tool?" I politely asked.
"Couldn't find it" she said, walking away.

BTW!
****Off topic comments removed.****

Edited July 23, 2013 by metisdead

[Just1Voice]

People ask me why I would rather drive a big bike to different cities than take a bus. They say a bus is safer and more comfortable. Oh, really? I've been riding since my dad bought me a mini-bike when I was 8. Even did some dirt track racing for a few years just for fun. I've ridden all types and sizes of bikes, and prefer the bigger ones. Last one I had before moving here was the Ninja 650. Here I went with the CBR 250, which is ok for Thai roads.

On a bike I have very strict rules about driving. Quick check of both mirrors every 8-10 seconds. Never get closer than 10 meters to a car/truck in front of me unless it is at a stop light or slower city traffic, or unless I'm on the highway and going to pass them. I constantly watch the traffic ahead and access potential "escape routes" in case of an accident in front me. Most of the time I'm in the left lane, but a lot of times I'll move to the right and twist the throttle if the traffic and road allows. I know I have less chance of survival on a bike, even with full protective riding gear, than I do in a car, but I also know that I have more available options to me to avoid something, even if that means taking it off the road, which I've had to do a couple of times. In a nutshell, I feel 100 times safer on a bike than riding ANY bus in Thailand.

[GirlDrinkDrunk]

We all know, deep down, that today could be our last day. Smile, enjoy, and take care.

i would rather smile, enjoy, and take my car.

[elzach]

Two in one day. Banner headlines, but little or no action on regulating the bus owners or their drivers safety standards. Stay alive tourists, don't take the bus or the trains these days.

Yes, it seems that Thailand is not for any long-distance surface travel.

[Shagz]

Yes the roads are the biggest killer with all the crazy driving that goes on, every country in the world has the same problems only some more than others but we also must think about the country to population to accidents ratio and I think it would probably pan out to some degree.

RIP to the deceased.

[Suffinator]

And the carnage continues. There's been many bus crashes here in Phuket this year and still safety standards and driver training has not been improved.

19 Dead in Horror Bus Crash in Thailand

[GirlDrinkDrunk]

RIP to the victims and families, full recovery to the injured. Another grim reminder instructing us to use airplanes for long distance travel in Thailand if budget allows. My family and I haven't set foot in a public coach or mini bus in Thailand for a full decade now. Whenever we have to go anywhere, we either go with our own car or take a budget flight.

I remember that I woke up once in a so called VIP coach, travelling from Bangkok to Surat - wished I would have stayed asleep since what I saw made my blood freeze. Within a period of 30 minutes we had at least 3 close calls, one with another coach that came straight at us on our side of the highway crossing in opposite direction to cut through a u-turn to his lane. Our driver almost lost control of the bus and you could hear horns honking all over the place. It ws like in one of those "Final Destination" horror movies... We later took the train back to Bangkok - but as latest developments showed, this is not a very safe option either... In the end - when our time's up, it's up - not much we can do about it, but we don't have to invite death by using public transport, given that our budget allows.

exactly, if i can afford transport other than the bus i cant afford to go at all.

one trip from pattaya to Bangkok at night seated in the front row was enough.

[Bagwan]

_{There is something ominous about pick-up truck in Thailand.}

_{And all these innocent victims...}

_{The10 years old on motorbikes are way less threatening....}

R.I.P. to the people killed in this terrible accident.

What is ominous about pickup trucks in Thailand? Most victims in accidents are innocent.

This was a case of a cement truck hitting the bus head on. No fault of the bus driver and certainly not the pickup driver who was following the bus.

I beg to differ. as do most sensible drivers I like to maintain my braking distance from anything in front of me. I appreciate that that is a very difficult thing to do in Thailand where passing on the inside (suicide?) is common. A characteristic trait of Thais is their me, me, me attitude. If you hit something up the ass in the UK then bang goes your no claims bonus - if you survive.

[SinCityGr8One]

"The truck crossed from the opposite lane of traffic and hit the bus," said local police officer Lieutenant Colonel Assavathep Janthanari, adding that a pickup truck behind the bus had also been involved in the crash."

Read again:

This has nothing to do with the safety standards of the bus or the pick-up truck,

If a cement truck is crossing the lane from the opposite direction, no safety standards can help you anymore.

The only safety that could have avoided this tragic accident would have been safety barriers in the middle of the road.

But that would have only shift the accident to the other side of the lane.

Wrong! There are many safety standards that come into play here. Was the truck overloaded? The news article says "cement truck" but we have no indication what that means. Was it an overloaded pickup? What about safety inspections for large trucks? What about driver training and qualification and standards such as keeping log books and restricting the number of hours one can drive? Those are safety standards in force in many countries. They are the law because of incidents such as this in those countries, including my own. Of course, we hear enforcement mentioned repeatedly, so I won't dwell on that. You are correct, however about the barrier, but that calls into question traffic engineering in this country. Traffic engineers here should be held accountable. They're criminally negligent.

How can you overload a cement truck,when it' full you can't fit any more in.

Let's first look at the term "cement truck". It is a pneumatic tanker on a trailer or truck chassis containing cement powder. Cement powder is dry, dense and very heavy. Did you ever pick up a bag of cement powder? The bags generally weigh in at 50 Kg. Cement powder tankers are loaded by weight and not volume. There has to be room in the tank for air to blow the powder out into a holding bin at a plant. So, you never want a truck to be "full". Plus, it would be too heavy at the highway weigh scales. People also confuse "cement truck" with a highway transit truck containing ready mixed concrete. They contain a volume of concrete that was ordered for a specific jobsite. Different sizes of drums for different sizes of truck chassis. Again, there are weight limitations also for these trucks. 1 cu./mt. of concrete weighs 2.4 tns. Plus, because it is considered a "live" load when the drum is turning, you also don't want the drum full because of spillage out of the back. These vehicles are never "full". Concrete is expensive so that would be money flowing out the back. Also, just in case any one ever wondered, concrete has a life span of 90 minutes. Yep, 90 minutes from the time it was batched. Then it starts the setting process. If anyone buys a load check the batch time on the delivery ticket. We'll just have to wait to see what type of vehicle was actually involved. I am retired from the industry, so that is my 10 Baht worth of info.

[arthurwait]

"The truck crossed from the opposite lane of traffic and hit the bus," said local police officer Lieutenant Colonel Assavathep Janthanari, adding that a pickup truck behind the bus had also been involved in the crash."

Read again:

This has nothing to do with the safety standards of the bus or the pick-up truck,

If a cement truck is crossing the lane from the opposite direction, no safety standards can help you anymore.

The only safety that could have avoided this tragic accident would have been safety barriers in the middle of the road.

But that would have only shift the accident to the other side of the lane.

Wrong! There are many safety standards that come into play here. Was the truck overloaded? The news article says "cement truck" but we have no indication what that means. Was it an overloaded pickup? What about safety inspections for large trucks? What about driver training and qualification and standards such as keeping log books and restricting the number of hours one can drive? Those are safety standards in force in many countries. They are the law because of incidents such as this in those countries, including my own. Of course, we hear enforcement mentioned repeatedly, so I won't dwell on that. You are correct, however about the barrier, but that calls into question traffic engineering in this country. Traffic engineers here should be held accountable. They're criminally negligent.

Remember it was a bank holiday.

[how241]

RIP to the victims. It seems like there has been an unusually high number of bus and van accidents lately?

+1

[webfact]

19 dead, 22 hurt in Saraburi bus tragedy
By English News

BANGKOK, July 23 -- Nineteen persons were killed and 22 were hurt as an inter-provincial bus collided with a 22-wheel trailer truck in Saraburi and burst into flame.

Police said a double decker Bangkok-Roi Et bus collided with the truck around 5am on Mittraphap Road, Kilometre 19 in Thap Kwang subdistrict, Kaeng Khoi district.

The crash was a head-on collision involving three vehicles -- the bus, the trailer rig and a pickup truck, police said.

The bus erupted into flame immediately after the crash.

The bus driver and the second driver were among the dead. The injured passengers were sent to nearby hospitals.

According to the initial investigation, the trailer truck crossed from its lane to hit the bus head on. The bus belonged to the government run Transport Company. The pickup truck following the trailer truck could not stop and crashed into the rear of the trailer truck.

Police said the road was slippery due to rain and it was sloping down from a hill.

Emergency workers removed the wreckage of the three vehicles from the road and traffic reopened normally. (MCOT online news)


-- TNA 2013-07-23

[wpcoe]

I will preface this post with a caveat that I am not "Thai bashing." I'm merely posting my observations about my perception of the difference between a way of thinking in Thailand that is different from where I come from (USA). It is what it is. There is definitely no shortage of maniacs and other inconsiderate drivers on the road in my homeland!

It seems there is a fundamental difference in thinking about entering a road/merging with traffic. I was taught to inch slowly until you have a clear view of oncoming traffic before making a decision how to enter/merge. Here, however, it seems de rigeur to blindly (sometimes slowly, but usually not) enter traffic and then, only if necessary, slam on the brakes to avoid collision.

This is not limited to road traffic. Have you noticed in Big C, Tesco, etc that people push their carts out the end of an aisle into "cross traffic" expecting it to be clear, and only if a collision results, issuing a "khor tot?"

It seems Thais play the odds that oncoming traffic (or shopping trolleys) will not collide with them, and the odds generally work in their favor. Maybe it's the converse of the "drive defensively" campaigns in the west?

[pinfold]

"The truck crossed from the opposite lane of traffic and hit the bus," said local police officer Lieutenant Colonel Assavathep Janthanari, adding that a pickup truck behind the bus had also been involved in the crash."

Read again:

This has nothing to do with the safety standards of the bus or the pick-up truck,

If a cement truck is crossing the lane from the opposite direction, no safety standards can help you anymore.

The only safety that could have avoided this tragic accident would have been safety barriers in the middle of the road.

But that would have only shift the accident to the other side of the lane.

19 dead,no way 19 would have died with impact injuries,there was no rear exit from that bus in all probability

[JetsetBkk]

<snip>

This is not limited to road traffic. Have you noticed in Big C, Tesco, etc that people push their carts out the end of an aisle into "cross traffic" expecting it to be clear, and only if a collision results, issuing a "khor tot?"

It seems Thais play the odds that oncoming traffic (or shopping trolleys) will not collide with them, and the odds generally work in their favor. Maybe it's the converse of the "drive defensively" campaigns in the west?

I think it's the ability to think ahead that is missing. Just like bikes leaving sois to join a bigger road usually don't stop and simply assume there will be room for them.

[Thai at Heart]

What a terrible way to die! Trapped in a burning bus.

And to all the Thaibashers show some respect and save your comments for another thread!

Tragic.

How big would an inferno like this have to be so that no one survived? Something not quite right here.

Big enough for the bus to have been reduced to it's bare metal, as described in the OP. What many people miss is that in a fire such as this, substandard materials such as the fabrics that seats are made of, give off highly toxic smoke. One or two good lung fulls of black toxic smoke and you are a gonner! Almost instant incapacitation will take place where you are unable to orientate yourself, there is an automatic breath reflex to get clean air quickly, which simply means ingesting more toxic smoke and bam, you are not getting out of any crashed bus, regardless of how strong or clever you are. You need someone to pull you out or next you will die (hopefully before the burning starts.

I am making a big assumption at this moment but is it likely the bus was packed with propane tanks? Most are and most trucks have 10 or 12 of them behind the cabins.

All not very reassuring

They manufacture cars and trucks here. Why are they even remotely allowed to use substandard materials.

Edited July 23, 2013 by Thai at Heart

[kriswillems]

I drive for 2.5 years I drive 100 kms per day on the same busy road with 3 or 4 lanes (on each side). There's a mix of motorcycles, buses and trucks on the same road. Some car and fully loaded minivans drive 140 km/h and some trucks 20 km/h. Motorcycles slalom between the traffic. There are U-turns at several places. People use the wrong lane for taking a U-turn and the wrong lane for turning. Motorcycles and cars drive against the traffic.

Almost every month I see dead people. The first deadly road accident I ever saw was in Thailand. I was shocked.

After seeing so many accidents I got used to it. When we drive by car and we see another body covered with a blanket, we just say "oh, too bad" and go on with with talking about what we were talking before.

Thai people that live around here saw so many deadly accidents, they got used to it. It's like a normal part of life and nobody cares to do something about it.

It's depressing when you start thinking about it, so I guess most people just choose not to think at all.

What is really terrible is that the worst drivers are "professional drivers": bus drivers, minivan drivers, songthaew drivers, taxis and motorcycle taxis. It shouldn't be this way.

Edited July 23, 2013 by kriswillems