Australia to Send Refugees to Papua New Guinea

[neverdie]

Bookie,

Please warn me before you come up with crackers like this. Coffee on keypad stuff.

"I know that Abbott must kiss a photo of Rudd every day and thank him for the policy"

You are splitting hairs old sausage, but best we just agree to disagree because obviously your either kevin himself or one of his blind followers.

I Raekwon you are right about Abbott kissing his photo, handing the election and prime ministership over like that, what a gift.

By the way I'm no tony Abbott fan, but I'm saddened to see the poor state of affairs in once a great country. Labours legacy will haunt Australia for years to come and probably about time the libs sort out the financial system the greater general public will let the socialists back in and they'll impregnate it again. Pretty much what's happened for the last 30-50 years or so.

Neverdie, 'old sausage', I am just presenting the facts as they are to you.

Unlike yourself, I am not letting my emotion sway me from that.

#1 No.

#2 No.

[simple1]

When I see Indonesia citizens burning the Australian flag, I think they really need to look within before being so dam_n offensive.

It would be interesting to see some sections of the Australian public attitude to media reports claiming the Indo Govt was tapping senior Oz politicians & the PM's wife's mobile phone; hysterical anti-Muslim/Indo reaction would likely be an immediate response.

The very successful Indo government suppression of Islamic extremists it's rarely reported in Australia media, I wonder why

Edited February 19, 2014 by simple1

[vanillalatte]

@simple1 - Iranians are very resourcefull - they will go there with visa or without.They had no visa entry to Japan long time.On fridays/sundays you could see crowds of them - thousands in UenoPark.They created to much nuisance of themselves - visa free entry was finished.Indonesia had to be pushed by OZ to terminate VOA for Iran.?to much money and biz opportunities

had been lost!

Another thing: who started that snooping/spying story?Australia?NO!

It was Sukarno during famous conference in Bandung - half a century ago.He used low-tech approach:call girls and high class prostitutes snitched for him on all politicos from Africa,Asia;

girls were his personal gifts to them.So called - honey traps.The monument of that event had been erected in central Jakarta - locals call it:the last Sukarno's erection!Have you seen it?

He tried all his gift-girls himself,before passing them.

[ravip]

Overpopulated third world countries should be forced to discourage their populations from breeding like rabbits and then they wouldn't be dumping their economic migrants on everyone else.

You are spot on!

Just add... First world countries should stop preaching what they themselves aren't complying with!

1-2-3 Worlds... they all are playing dirty games.

[ravip]

Who decided on the EU.

Then why this?

One has to separate the wheat from the chaff - would make the task easy if you understand the politicians (all over).

Edit.

1st world

2nd world

3rd world

Developed

Undeveloped

Developing

These are just words that people in power play with - the game is same. Only the pitch is different!

Edited February 19, 2014 by ravip

[BookMan]

Manus Island violence: interpreter claims detainees attacked by locals, 'There was blood everywhere'

Papua New Guinea locals employed by security guards at the Manus Island detention centre attacked asylum seekers with machetes, knives and rocks, an interpreter employed by the Australian Immigration Department has claimed.

Azita Bokan alleges asylum seekers used plastic chairs as shields when they were attacked by locals who entered the centre on Monday night.

Immigration Minister Scott Morrison has increased the number of security guards at the centre by more than a third, following days of violence that left one asylum seeker dead and scores of others severely injured.

Ms Bokan says she saw people who had suffered ''massive head injuries'' when locals entered the centre after detainees had pushed down a fence within the centre.

Advertisement

''Definitely, 100 per cent, I stand by the statement that the local people, including some employed by [security contractor] G4S, they were the ones who caused this drama,'' Ms Bokan said after flying out of Manus Island on Wednesday.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/manus-island-violence-interpreter-claims-detainees-attacked-by-locals-there-was-blood-everywhere-20140219-3315g.html

[simple1]

Manus Island violence: interpreter claims detainees attacked by locals, 'There was blood everywhere'

Papua New Guinea locals employed by security guards at the Manus Island detention centre attacked asylum seekers with machetes, knives and rocks, an interpreter employed by the Australian Immigration Department has claimed.

Azita Bokan alleges asylum seekers used plastic chairs as shields when they were attacked by locals who entered the centre on Monday night.

Immigration Minister Scott Morrison has increased the number of security guards at the centre by more than a third, following days of violence that left one asylum seeker dead and scores of others severely injured.

Ms Bokan says she saw people who had suffered ''massive head injuries'' when locals entered the centre after detainees had pushed down a fence within the centre.

Advertisement

''Definitely, 100 per cent, I stand by the statement that the local people, including some employed by [security contractor] G4S, they were the ones who caused this drama,'' Ms Bokan said after flying out of Manus Island on Wednesday.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/manus-island-violence-interpreter-claims-detainees-attacked-by-locals-there-was-blood-everywhere-20140219-3315g.html

Cats out of the bag. Morrison had previously flatly denied locals were able to enter the center and attack detainees.

[neverdie]

When I see Indonesia citizens burning the Australian flag, I think they really need to look within before being so dam_n offensive.

It would be interesting to see some sections of the Australian public attitude to media reports claiming the Indo Govt was tapping senior Oz politicians & the PM's wife's mobile phone; hysterical anti-Muslim/Indo reaction would likely be an immediate response.

The very successful Indo government suppression of Islamic extremists it's rarely reported in Australia media, I wonder why

Firstly, I'm not one of the hysterical anti-Muslim Australians and I have my own personal reasons for that, to which I don't wish to go into detail about. I DEFINATELY AGREE with you about narrow minded Australians on this issue, it's sickening.

I was of the belief that it was very known how hard the Indonesian government had worked to deal with Islamic extremists, especially post Bali attacks, I thought that was well known and reported inside Australia. I'm not a fan of the Australian media, especially the commercial channels.

As for the other issue about the boats, I was wondering how the indo's would react if the boats were flowing in the opposite direction. Imagine Australia had a thriving underground business where asylum seekers were being bundled onto boats, with the assistance of corrupt australian officials and being speared off in the direction of Indonesia. I wonder what their stance would be.

Clearly the president of Indonesia is working on the problem, but corruption there is not disimiliar to Thailand, so not everything flows smoothly under him, meanwhile dozens of boats & more are floating onto Australian shores. What's the answer, do you think Australia should just open their borders to any ahole? Australia's already got enough of those without importing them.

The issue of dangerous criminals arriving on these boats is very real. On the other hand Australia has an obligation to take their share of genuine assulym seekers.

New news via the ABC today is reporting that the Australian Navy has had a number of incursions into Indonesian waters during operations relating to 'the boats'. No doubt they'll be burning the flags again, but if true there's no excuse for this in this modern day and age.

Seriously, if the boats originate from Indonesian shores the. They should be turned back, indo needs to suck that up and deal with that issue. If the boats bypass indo or originate from So we here else, Australia needs to deal with that. Simple.

Enuf.

[neverdie]

Manus Island violence: interpreter claims detainees attacked by locals, 'There was blood everywhere'

Papua New Guinea locals employed by security guards at the Manus Island detention centre attacked asylum seekers with machetes, knives and rocks, an interpreter employed by the Australian Immigration Department has claimed.

Azita Bokan alleges asylum seekers used plastic chairs as shields when they were attacked by locals who entered the centre on Monday night.

Immigration Minister Scott Morrison has increased the number of security guards at the centre by more than a third, following days of violence that left one asylum seeker dead and scores of others severely injured.

Ms Bokan says she saw people who had suffered ''massive head injuries'' when locals entered the centre after detainees had pushed down a fence within the centre.

Advertisement

''Definitely, 100 per cent, I stand by the statement that the local people, including some employed by [security contractor] G4S, they were the ones who caused this drama,'' Ms Bokan said after flying out of Manus Island on Wednesday.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/manus-island-violence-interpreter-claims-detainees-attacked-by-locals-there-was-blood-everywhere-20140219-3315g.html

Cats out of the bag. Morrison had previously flatly denied locals were able to enter the center and attack detainees.

Terrible.

[BookMan]

From another Witness:

A man who saw the violence on Monday night, but does not want to be identified, says Papua New Guinean guards employed by the G4S security company running the centre became angry when asylum seekers shouted insults about their country and family members.

The witness says he watched PNG guards beat detainees with sticks, iron bars and rubber hoses as well as fists, boots and shields.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-02-19/guards-attacked-asylum-seekers-with-sticks-and-iron-witness-says/5270640

Edited February 20, 2014 by BookMan

[simple1]

@neverdie: In the first seven months of 2013 6,358 asylum seekers were intercepted / picked up by Indo authorities, the Indo detention centres are overwhelmed.

I believe the majority are permitted to live in the community, but that would be extremely difficult as they are not legally permitted to work. Indo has a number of problems with the refugees/asylum seekers that would contribute to internal social pressures.

At the end of the day, Indo currently does not have a legal obligation to assist Oz authorities concerning the ‘boat people’ issue, other than being ‘good neighbours’.

given the very rigorous vetting processes, I would imagine the least preferred means of access to Australia for ‘dangerous criminals’ would be by via people smugglers . As I recall out of the thousands who have been vetted there were only a few that were rejected based upon security concerns.

Last year there was a proposal by Indo authorities to round up & ship the estimated 10,000 refugees to an island, but the plan was cancelled, apparently for budgetary reasons. Australia was not in favour, as commented the location would be a honey pot for people smugglers.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/policy/indonesias-bid-to-put-10000-refugees-on-isle/story-fn9hm1gu-1226724090344#

It appears that Indo is currently stuck between a rock and a hard place on the refugee issue, that many Australians to not seem to comprehend.

Edited February 20, 2014 by simple1

[Will27]

Manus Island violence: interpreter claims detainees attacked by locals, 'There was blood everywhere'

Papua New Guinea locals employed by security guards at the Manus Island detention centre attacked asylum seekers with machetes, knives and rocks, an interpreter employed by the Australian Immigration Department has claimed.

Azita Bokan alleges asylum seekers used plastic chairs as shields when they were attacked by locals who entered the centre on Monday night.

Immigration Minister Scott Morrison has increased the number of security guards at the centre by more than a third, following days of violence that left one asylum seeker dead and scores of others severely injured.

Ms Bokan says she saw people who had suffered ''massive head injuries'' when locals entered the centre after detainees had pushed down a fence within the centre.

Advertisement

''Definitely, 100 per cent, I stand by the statement that the local people, including some employed by [security contractor] G4S, they were the ones who caused this drama,'' Ms Bokan said after flying out of Manus Island on Wednesday.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/manus-island-violence-interpreter-claims-detainees-attacked-by-locals-there-was-blood-everywhere-20140219-3315g.html

Cats out of the bag. Morrison had previously flatly denied locals were able to enter the center and attack detainees.

Perhaps we should wait for an investigation to find out what really happened.

I mean all we have now is a disgruntled employee who has admitted to not witnessing

any of the violence.

Perhaps Morrsison should have said "the detainees will be safe as long as they don't break down

the fence, leave the compound and incite the locals".

[neverdie]

@neverdie: In the first seven months of 2013 6,358 asylum seekers were intercepted / picked up by Indo authorities, the Indo detention centres are overwhelmed.

I believe the majority are permitted to live in the community, but that would be extremely difficult as they are not legally permitted to work. Indo has a number of problems with the refugees/asylum seekers that would contribute to internal social pressures.

At the end of the day, Indo currently does not have a legal obligation to assist Oz authorities concerning the boat people issue, other than being good neighbours.

given the very rigorous vetting processes, I would imagine the least preferred means of access to Australia for dangerous criminals would be by via people smugglers . As I recall out of the thousands who have been vetted there were only a few that were rejected based upon security concerns.

Last year there was a proposal by Indo authorities to round up & ship the estimated 10,000 refugees to an island, but the plan was cancelled, apparently for budgetary reasons. Australia was not in favour, as commented the location would be a honey pot for people smugglers.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/policy/indonesias-bid-to-put-10000-refugees-on-isle/story-fn9hm1gu-1226724090344#

It appears that Indo is currently stuck between a rock and a hard place on the refugee issue, that many Australians to not seem to comprehend.

I have no problem with anything you've written here simple, with the exception of:

"At the end of the day, Indo currently does not have a legal obligation to assist Oz authorities concerning the boat people issue, other than being good neighbours"

If somebody somehow boards a plane in Bkk and arrives into Sydney airport and is either denied entry to Australia or has their visa cancelled as they attempt entry, then they'd be placed into immigration custody and returned to where their flight originated from. You'll see airline staff checking Passports for visa's etc because they don't want to get caught up in the expensive business of people being denied entry at the other end.

Indonesia excepts they've got some responsibility especially when one know factor is they have people illegally leaving their shores on floating disasters, Australia bound. The are corrupt officials and people smugglers inside their own country orchestrating proceedings. This isn't just an Australian problem, it's a pacific one & indeed is happening in various regions around the world.

New Zealand is also a target for these people, it wasn't that long ago a vessel was intercepted far south on the waters off Western Australia, allegedly bound for NZ.

As for phone hacking, I think it's disgusting, nothing makes it right and their all most likely guilty of exactly the same thing.

[neverdie]

From another Witness:

A man who saw the violence on Monday night, but does not want to be identified, says Papua New Guinean guards employed by the G4S security company running the centre became angry when asylum seekers shouted insults about their country and family members.

The witness says he watched PNG guards beat detainees with sticks, iron bars and rubber hoses as well as fists, boots and shields.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-02-19/guards-attacked-asylum-seekers-with-sticks-and-iron-witness-says/5270640

Shocking stuff.

[simple1]

@neverdie: In the first seven months of 2013 6,358 asylum seekers were intercepted / picked up by Indo authorities, the Indo detention centres are overwhelmed.

I believe the majority are permitted to live in the community, but that would be extremely difficult as they are not legally permitted to work. Indo has a number of problems with the refugees/asylum seekers that would contribute to internal social pressures.

At the end of the day, Indo currently does not have a legal obligation to assist Oz authorities concerning the boat people issue, other than being good neighbours.

given the very rigorous vetting processes, I would imagine the least preferred means of access to Australia for dangerous criminals would be by via people smugglers . As I recall out of the thousands who have been vetted there were only a few that were rejected based upon security concerns.

Last year there was a proposal by Indo authorities to round up & ship the estimated 10,000 refugees to an island, but the plan was cancelled, apparently for budgetary reasons. Australia was not in favour, as commented the location would be a honey pot for people smugglers.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/policy/indonesias-bid-to-put-10000-refugees-on-isle/story-fn9hm1gu-1226724090344#

It appears that Indo is currently stuck between a rock and a hard place on the refugee issue, that many Australians to not seem to comprehend.

I have no problem with anything you've written here simple, with the exception of:

"At the end of the day, Indo currently does not have a legal obligation to assist Oz authorities concerning the boat people issue, other than being good neighbours"

If somebody somehow boards a plane in Bkk and arrives into Sydney airport and is either denied entry to Australia or has their visa cancelled as they attempt entry, then they'd be placed into immigration custody and returned to where their flight originated from. You'll see airline staff checking Passports for visa's etc because they don't want to get caught up in the expensive business of people being denied entry at the other end.

Indonesia excepts they've got some responsibility especially when one know factor is they have people illegally leaving their shores on floating disasters, Australia bound. The are corrupt officials and people smugglers inside their own country orchestrating proceedings. This isn't just an Australian problem, it's a pacific one & indeed is happening in various regions around the world.

New Zealand is also a target for these people, it wasn't that long ago a vessel was intercepted far south on the waters off Western Australia, allegedly bound for NZ.

As for phone hacking, I think it's disgusting, nothing makes it right and their all most likely guilty of exactly the same thing.

Good to see that we have nearly acheived common ground! In ref to Indo legal, I was referring to the fact that Indo has not ratified the UN Convention for Refugees.

Are there current numbers on people arriving by air on some form of visa, then immediate claiming asylum seeker/refugee status?

Edited February 20, 2014 by simple1

[harrry]

I think the only way to solve the refugee situation is to let all participating countries give a quota of people they will accept if they meet security concerns. Randomly allocate applicants to these countries. This takes care of those who are refugees from fear and leaves those who are economic migrants and can thus enter normal immigration channels.

[theslime]

As long as Indonesian Officials get paid by the smugglers, there will be no end to this.

[chooka]

As long as Indonesian Officials get paid by the smugglers, there will be no end to this.

Asylum flow to Indonesia slashed, says UN

PETER ALFORD and BRENDAN NICHOLSON

• From: The Australian
• February 20, 2014 12:00AM

AUSTRALIA’S crackdown on boatpeople has slashed the number of asylum-seekers arriving in Indonesia, new UN refugee agency data shows.

Monthly applications for asylum-seeker registration handled by the UN High Commissioner for Refugees office in Jakarta — overwhelmingly the busiest in Indonesia — dropped 71 per cent between February 2013 and last month.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/policy/asylum-flow-to-indonesia-slashed-says-un/story-fn9hm1gu-1226832129574#

Edited February 20, 2014 by chooka

[neverdie]

Good to see that we have nearly acheived common ground! In ref to Indo legal, I was referring to the fact that Indo has not ratified the UN Convention for Refugees.

Are there current numbers on people arriving by air on some form of visa, then immediate claiming asylum seeker/refugee status?

I like constructive discussion, especially when it doesn't result in name calling, flaming and just moderate amounts of my stupidity - lol.

Now I understand exactly what your on about. As for numbers by air, I'm not sure exactly what they are but I will endeavour to try and google something reliable. I'm just dealing with a personal real world problem ATM.

I'm a hard bastard, but I have sincere sympathy for genuine refugees and people that genuinely need assulym. There is probably no solution that will solve the problems entirely but surely we can do better than this. It is disturbing, if factual, that detainees come to harm at the hands of scrupulous individuals.

People smugglers should be skinned alive, risking lives of children, women and men for financial gain. DISGUSTING.

[neverdie]

As long as Indonesian Officials get paid by the smugglers, there will be no end to this.

Corruption is a cancer that strikes at the very core of society!

[neverdie]

50% of asylum seekers arriving in Australia! arrive by air.

http://hms.salvos.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Salvos_HMS_Mythbusters_2013.pdf

[simple1]

I think the only way to solve the refugee situation is to let all participating countries give a quota of people they will accept if they meet security concerns. Randomly allocate applicants to these countries. This takes care of those who are refugees from fear and leaves those who are economic migrants and can thus enter normal immigration channels.

In 2012 alone around one million additional people were accepted & registered with UNHCR. Only one percent of refugees were resettled in the same year in participating countries, of which there were 27. Allocation and prioritisation of existing UNHCR 'clients' to participating countries for resettlement is regularly disrupted by new conflicts and resultant emergencies.

Edited February 20, 2014 by simple1

[harrry]

I think the only way to solve the refugee situation is to let all participating countries give a quota of people they will accept if they meet security concerns. Randomly allocate applicants to these countries. This takes care of those who are refugees from fear and leaves those who are economic migrants and can thus enter normal immigration channels.

In 2012 alone around one million additional people were accepted & registered with UNHCR. Only one percent of refugees were resettled in the same year in participating countries, of which there were 27. Allocation and prioritisation of existing UNHCR 'clients' to participating countries for resettlement is regularly disrupted by new conflicts and resultant emergencies.

So Australia is doing more than it's share...we have to prioritize and the way I suggested would mean that ones who need protection get it first.

[chooka]

CHINA is condemning Australia on Human Rights Issues and it's treatment of refugees. How many refugees is China taking in and what is China's record on human rights. F&^%$ &ff China and look at yourselves as probably the worst country in the world when it come to human rights.

[BookMan]

CHINA is condemning Australia on Human Rights Issues and it's treatment of refugees. How many refugees is China taking in and what is China's record on human rights. F&^%$ &ff China and look at yourselves as probably the worst country in the world when it come to human rights.

yes, but look at the tasty food they have given us instead

[simple1]

CHINA is condemning Australia on Human Rights Issues and it's treatment of refugees. How many refugees is China taking in and what is China's record on human rights. F&^%$ &ff China and look at yourselves as probably the worst country in the world when it come to human rights.

More than likely driven by politics; China is seeking permission to make even more investments in Indonesia

[chooka]

CHINA is condemning Australia on Human Rights Issues and it's treatment of refugees. How many refugees is China taking in and what is China's record on human rights. F&^%$ &ff China and look at yourselves as probably the worst country in the world when it come to human rights.

yes, but look at the tasty food they have given us instead

and my grandfather is chinese.

[simple1]

I think the only way to solve the refugee situation is to let all participating countries give a quota of people they will accept if they meet security concerns. Randomly allocate applicants to these countries. This takes care of those who are refugees from fear and leaves those who are economic migrants and can thus enter normal immigration channels.

In 2012 alone around one million additional people were accepted & registered with UNHCR. Only one percent of refugees were resettled in the same year in participating countries, of which there were 27. Allocation and prioritisation of existing UNHCR 'clients' to participating countries for resettlement is regularly disrupted by new conflicts and resultant emergencies.

So Australia is doing more than it's share...we have to prioritize and the way I suggested would mean that ones who need protection get it first.

This is true for those already assessed in collaboration with UNHCR. However Oz is being heavily criticised for its policy for those arriving by sea that is in effect refoulement. Some may not give a dam_n, but it is damaging Australia's reputation. An article reviewing this issue titled 'Australia's Troubling Asylum Seeker Policy' at URL below.

http://thediplomat.com/2014/02/australias-troubling-asylum-seeker-policy/

Edited February 20, 2014 by simple1

[Scott]

The battle to help political refugees has been a hard fought battle, with many steps backwards. Although I certainly understand Australia's position, I am afraid they are starting down a slippery slope that other countries will follow.

[Jay Sata]

Given the problems the USA has given the world through recent wars in Iraq and Afghanistan I don't hear America shouting give me your tired and huddled masses.

Bush,Cheney and Rumsfeld fomented a lot of the current issues.