Rooftop solar energy project to start soon

[Cuban]

Indeed the newish craze for roof mounted solar-electric and solar-water systems; I have seen many where the installation it totally fine and dandy yet the one thing that the home-owner does not think about and the installer does not care about is the amount of grime and dust that will build up on the solar collector surfaces.

Without easy access to the panels for cleaning over a short time the efficiency will decline.

Edited July 28, 2013 by Cuban

[SSSlongtime]

so there going be new problem in thailand ,roof fires ,like to go for roof hot water ,must be safer ,anybody got roof hot water ,does it work ,now have two electric hot water tanks

[peterb0576]

Here in The UK we are now fitting solar PV to many homes and business following The German example of giving people free solar panels 10-18 panel system plus inverter and a bidirectional meter to feed the house and The National Grid, this is done by commercial company's who get paid by one of The 6 power company's @14.8p per unit produced,now this to me is a good idea if they allowed that to happen in Thailand then many people would be able to have this.The average life span of a good german system (schuco) is about 30_40 years. And as we all know its not sunlight they need its daylight to make the system work and produce power so rainy and cloudy days it can still produce some power, average price or a system here in The UK is about £6-10k

[rexaco123]

"hence people could take a loan to get the panels and repay the cost by selling power."

Turning more people into debt slaves while someone makes a killing on panels is the only reason such an economically unrealistic plan like this was ever hatched.

Now we're getting somewhere...and of course that someone making a killing will be giving a nice kickback to the government.

[OzMick]

800 MW is a lot of PV cell generation with a hefty price. Strange that there is no costing and the announcement comes shortly before the next budget.

The proposed Moree NSW 150MW PV station is estimated at ~B30 billion, so are we looking at B150+ billion in an off-the-cuff type notification. Of course, Moree will use solar tracking technology to increase efficiency - badly needed because it likely to be some of the most expensive power ever generated in Oz.

Perhaps they can pay for it from the money they save by cancelling the rice scam.

[Naam]

Here in The UK we are now fitting solar PV to many homes and business following The German example of giving people free solar panels 10-18 panel system plus inverter and a bidirectional meter to feed the house and The National Grid, this is done by commercial company's who get paid by one of The 6 power company's @14.8p per unit produced,now this to me is a good idea if they allowed that to happen in Thailand then many people would be able to have this.The average life span of a good german system (schuco) is about 30_40 years. And as we all know its not sunlight they need its daylight to make the system work and produce power so rainy and cloudy days it can still produce some power, average price or a system here in The UK is about £6-10k

unfortunately the "German free solar lunch" is a fairy tale. i have several friends/acquaintances who installed or are on the verge of installing photovoltaic systems. they all pay from their own pockets, the initial tax relief was abolished and the future price per fed kWh into the grid has been reduced.

PV is of course still a viable alternative with a fair return on investment.

[monty]

To me it looks like they are going to make the same mistake as they did in some European countries, namely over-subsidizing.

Some of those countries had to steeply reduce those subsidies, definitely in Belgium, and apparently as per Naam in Germany as well.

I do think it can work properly and economically, another poster mentioned as one problem the fact that peak PV production time (2PM) does not fall at the same moment as peak consumption (7 PM), making it a less then ideal system for the electricity generating companies.

I'm not entirely convinced this is so over here, in Thailand we have massive consumption on AC in commercial buildings, government buildings banks etc, all or mostly getting shut down between 5 and 6 PM, only to then have the home use, cooking etc kick in. To me it looks like it's more balanced like it would be in the more moderate European climes. And more steady year round with climate hovering between warm, not so warm, very warm and hot

A proper sell back scheme where you can sell surplus capacity during the daytime to the PEA/MEA, to then buy it back in the evening/night time when the average household needs it, totally abolishes the need for storage. You basically only have the efficiency of your inverter to contend with.

Meaning that you can actually use almost every single KWh generated by your panels, whenever you want to use it, at no penalty.

Don't know exact prices and expected life time etc, but I gues it must be a viable investment in the long run.

[OzMick]

The problem for generating companies is covering the vagaries of solar and wind power. While in service they are saving fuel usage, but need spinning reserve for cloud cover or wind drop which reduces output very rapidly. Steam generation units have a definite lag time and ramp rate, meaning that expensive gen equipment (gas turbines, diesel engine or hydro) has to be kept on-line to compensate for fluctuations.

I'm not sure when the peaks are on Thailand's usage. The use of gas for most cooking could have a big effect.

[Thai at Heart]

There is already one solar farm in TL that I know of, about 40km north of Ayutthya. There may be more.

Are there any numbers as to how much electricity that generates for the grid?

A good idea in principle but in practice looks to have a lot of problems.

Anyway it is only for those who can afford the expense and think it will save them on their power bills.

If those who cant afford it are encouraged to take part it will only increase the public debt burden.

From korat up to udon, there are many....

[monty]

There is already one solar farm in TL that I know of, about 40km north of Ayutthya. There may be more.

Are there any numbers as to how much electricity that generates for the grid?

A good idea in principle but in practice looks to have a lot of problems.

Anyway it is only for those who can afford the expense and think it will save them on their power bills.

If those who cant afford it are encouraged to take part it will only increase the public debt burden.

From korat up to udon, there are many....

And another about 15 km outside of Pattaya, not far from Siam Country club Plantation course.

[ramrod711]

I think we have to consider what use the extra power could be put to, I mean how else are they going to power the the high speed rail.

[rbrooks]

Sounds like just another government scheme to screw their own people into thinking they can make some money down the road after they invested a small fortune in device that will probably break down and is made in China.

[Lucie]

Solar generated electricity is expensive. The capital outlay is high and many panels needs to be replaced after 5 years. In the rainy season the generation of solar electricty becomes unreliable and can only supplement normal supply.

In the UK, which is not known for it's glorious sunny weather, houses fitted with a solar panel roof are producing enough electricity to meet their needs and sell some to the grid. So in Thailand, it is undoubtedly possible.

But it should be done at a community level, not at the household level. Currently, every village in the country recieves a government grant every year, to use for whatever project they like. The size of the grant varies between 250,000 and 1,000,000 Baht per village, depending on the size of the village.

In our village, the headman and his cronies send in a half-assed proposal for some project (a village shop / a rice mill / etc) and then when the money arrives they just divide it up between the households - it's about 2,000-odd each household. The government never checks that the project went ahead, and gives them more money the following year.

Now, what about taking that grant away, adding the money together for a few years, and then using it to build a solar generator for the village. The electricity can be sold to villagers, and the money coming in can be used to pay someone to maintain the system, and saved for future repairs / replacements...

Don't forget, changing to solar power, or any other alternative energy source, is not just about financial viability. You also have to factor in environmental viability. If it ends up with no money being saved, it's still way better than using up finite resources and polluting the planet.

[OzMick]

How about some subsidised solar panel hats for rice farmers? After all, they are out in the sun all day. They could be used to power a fan to keep them cool, and charge a battery on their belt for when they go frog hunting at night. Not only will it save the planet, there could be some votes in it as well.

Edited July 28, 2013 by OzMick

[MaxYakov]

"hence people could take a loan to get the panels and repay the cost by selling power."

Turning more people into debt slaves while someone makes a killing on panels is the only reason such an economically unrealistic plan like this was ever hatched.

Don't forget the grid-tie inverter folks, the installers and the preventive and (oops, this is Thailand) corrective maintenance people. Send the kids up to the roofs (or is it rooves?) to clean the panels, I suppose. The Solyndra folks will be thrilled about this (speaking of debt-slaves - US taxpayers)!

Edited July 28, 2013 by MaxYakov

[MaxYakov]

How about some subsidised solar panel hats for rice farmers? After all, they are out in the sun all day. They could be used to power a fan to keep them cool, and charge a battery on their belt for when they go frog hunting at night. Not only will it save the planet, there could be some votes in it as well.

Ahh, the creative electrons are flowing today! I'm thinking this idea may have a huge market in motorbike helmet ventilation. Instead of using the excess for frog hunting, perhaps charging their cell phones, powering helmet cams, helmet visor wipers, helmet lights ... breathalyzers ... the possibilities are endless as well as the subsidization (no doubt)! And think of the lives that will be saved by having many more motorbikers wearing helmets to both look cool and be environmentally-sensitive.

Edited July 28, 2013 by MaxYakov

[jbrain]

How about some subsidised solar panel hats for rice farmers? After all, they are out in the sun all day. They could be used to power a fan to keep them cool, and charge a battery on their belt for when they go frog hunting at night. Not only will it save the planet, there could be some votes in it as well.

And the fan in the hat would save them a haircut at the same time.

[hellodolly]

Pongsak said the cost of solar-cell installation had been cut from Bt300,000-400,000 to under Bt200,000 per panel hence people could take a loan to get the panels and repay the cost by selling power.

I wonder what the time frame of the ROI would be on this Bt200,000 investment.

Yu'P spend around $10,000 -12,000 dollares AU on a good system that can generate plenty of power and sell back into the grid,

Not sure of this "per panel" thing? maybe ask the reporter of this to clarifie?

You have to be new here.

Expecting a Nation reporter to clarify.

[rametindallas]

so there going be new problem in thailand ,roof fires ,like to go for roof hot water ,must be safer ,anybody got roof hot water ,does it work ,now have two electric hot water tanks

Black plastic piping snaked in a shallow, black painted, clear plastic covered box will reach 300 degrees in the direct sun. The heated water is stored inside in insulated tanks for night use. This form of solar power saves more energy than photovoltaic cells can produce for a fraction of the cost. Maintenance is also very low. Since there are no moving parts on the roof and only a small recirculating pump is used, passive solar water heating will not cause fires.

http://www.heatstick.com/HB%20Pipes%20RES%20Web.jpg

[rametindallas]

How about some subsidised solar panel hats for rice farmers? After all, they are out in the sun all day. They could be used to power a fan to keep them cool, and charge a battery on their belt for when they go frog hunting at night. Not only will it save the planet, there could be some votes in it as well.

I have one of those and it works great. http://www.uberreview.com/2006/02/the-solar-powered-cooling-pith-helmet.htm

[AWT1968]

Having designed PV systems for a couple of years, I did a quick calculation for a house in Thailand (nearest weather data available was from Khorat), based on a 20 degree roof pitch and a SE/SW orientation.

The results are as per the attached-a 2.76kW system (12nr 230W panels) would produce circa 3,800 kWh per year, based upon the annual weather data.

For the record, an average house in the UK uses about 3,300kWh annually, and a 4kW PV system would produce this, now at an installation cost of £6-8k.

PV panels do degenerate over time, after 25 years their output is about 80% of the original value.

Rain will clean the panels, but at lower roof pitches here in Thailand dirt may accumulate and reduce the efficiency.

AWT1968

Typical PV Output-Thailand.pdf

[OzMick]

so there going be new problem in thailand ,roof fires ,like to go for roof hot water ,must be safer ,anybody got roof hot water ,does it work ,now have two electric hot water tanks

Black plastic piping snaked in a shallow, black painted, clear plastic covered box will reach 300 degrees in the direct sun. The heated water is stored inside in insulated tanks for night use. This form of solar power saves more energy than photovoltaic cells can produce for a fraction of the cost. Maintenance is also very low. Since there are no moving parts on the roof and only a small recirculating pump is used, passive solar water heating will not cause fires.

http://www.heatstick.com/HB%20Pipes%20RES%20Web.jpg

I had a solar hot water system here for many years. It consisted of a spiral of 1" black plastic tubing attached to a 200 litre drum - no need for glass or a recirc pump. The temp reached never became dangerous, and the water thermo-syphoned as the drum was higher. Note that it needs a flapper type non-return v/v. The water in the drum became hot enough that I had to fit a mixer tap to cool it for shower use.

Edited July 29, 2013 by OzMick

[monty]

The only thing is, 70% of the Thai population has no use for hot water! Not much to be saved there!

[hhiser]

200,000 bht per panel? Surely some mistake there, seems way too high.

200k for a small system maybe.

Sent from my GT-I9003 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

We had a quote of only ฿70,000 for the entire installation. ฿200,000 per panel is ridiculous. That would take 16 years to pay off (assuming and average electricity bill of ฿1,000/month).

[cloudhopper]

200,000 bht per panel? Surely some mistake there, seems way too high.

200k for a small system maybe.

Sent from my GT-I9003 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

We had a quote of only ฿70,000 for the entire installation. ฿200,000 per panel is ridiculous. That would take 16 years to pay off (assuming and average electricity bill of ฿1,000/month).

Could you describe the specs of that 70.000 baht package? ie how many panel watts. TIA

[belg]

did the scam in my country

only for house owners, they paid 0 and could deduct from tax income

everybody else paid double their electrical bill withing 2 - 3 years to compensate the lucky few

+ now those people with panels finally will be paying more taxes on their installation

sadly resulting in more costs for everybody else

how many times did other expats here question why in the land of so much sun, the government does not start mega projects to replace fuel, diesel, coal, oil with SOME solar power at least

how many people will pay 200.000 baht out of their pocket to have those ugly things installed here ?

where there is no ground wire in most of houses ... dangerous in rainy season ? be flooded and get electrocuted by your own installation ?

[cloudhopper]

I just had Mrs Hopper, who has a degree in mass communications, call the number in the article for information. After a half hour of being referred to different numbers about a dozen times, she was finally able to get confirmation that said program does not actually exist and is merely a "proposal".

TIT

[OzMick]

The only thing is, 70% of the Thai population has no use for hot water! Not much to be saved there!

True! But aging farangs appreciate a warm shower, as did my young step-daughters on colder days. Even with a pump, we were using much less power than the instantaneous heater, and allowed longer showers. The costs mainly using irrigation equipment were small, and at the time our electricity was paid through our landlord @B7/kWh.

[CWMcMurray]

It's actually an interesting idea... 200k, if able to support household usage, would pay its self off in 5 years 7 mo. as we spend aprox 3k per month in electric bills.

Even if if needing to do maintenance or even if needing to replace after 8 yrs.. still puts us up apex 87k

If possible to sell any back to the grid, would be even better. Although would never advise anyone to take out a loan to set up.

If wanting more details about this, anyone know who to contact?

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

[jbrain]

It's actually an interesting idea... 200k, if able to support household usage, would pay its self off in 5 years 7 mo. as we spend aprox 3k per month in electric bills.

Even if if needing to do maintenance or even if needing to replace after 8 yrs.. still puts us up apex 87k

If possible to sell any back to the grid, would be even better. Although would never advise anyone to take out a loan to set up.

If wanting more details about this, anyone know who to contact?

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

Where did you read that the 200K installation would be sufficient to support a 3000 Baht monthly usage.

There are households and households, you know.