Gay marriage coming to Thailand?

[webfact]

Gay Marriage Coming to Thailand?
By J. T. Quigley

BANGKOK: -- Last year, a same-sex couple from Thailand’s northern city of Chiang Mai attempted to make their two-decade relationship official by applying for a marriage registration. Nathee Theeraronjanapong (55) and his partner Atthapon Janthawee (38) had their request to marry denied by local officials – who stated that Thailand’s Civil and Commercial Code deemed gay marriage illegal.

The couple fired back at the perceived discrimination by filing official complaints with Thailand’s Parliamentary Human Rights Commission, Administrative Court, and National Human Rights Commission, insisting that the constitution guarantees equal protection under the law. As has been the case in other countries pushing for same-sex marriage, strict wording of what defines a married couple was likely the issue.

“While the constitution says that human rights shall equally be protected irrespective of sex, and that men and women shall enjoy the equal rights, Section 1458 of the Thai Civil and Commercial Code says ‘a marriage can take place only if the man and woman agree to take each other as husband and wife,’” explained Prachatai.

The political storm that followed the couple’s struggle drew national media attention to the issue of same-sex marriage, leading one Thai politician to draft the country’s first civil union bill. Wiratana Kalayasiri, a Democrat parliamentarian from the southern city of Songkhla – who also chairs the nation’s Legal Justice Human Rights Committee – is leading the fight for marriage equality.

Full story: http://thediplomat.com/asia-life/2013/07/gay-marriage-coming-to-thailand/

-- THE DIPLOMAT 2013-07-30

[Matthew2027]

Live & Let Live! What are people/ Politicians scared of?

At 18 I began a 14yr same sex relationship - ended with a fatal car accident. At 34 a 9 year relationship - ended with Cancer. Both of these men I would have married if it were possible (Australia) Love and longevity does exist in same sex relationships.

[skippero]

From all the information that I can find, Thailand's tourist income would greatly increase if the country made marriage possible for all people. The first country in Asia, New

Zealand to legalized all marriages, is set to see an amazing influx of dollars. With this single move, Thailand would see a much increased tourist revenue if they did not make the regulations too difficult. It would be a good economic move!

[laurentbkk]

I just wonder if Thailand is ready for that big change .... I would be happy for anyone who find happiness in same sex or different sex marriage ....Everybody have the right to be happy.

[cup-O-coffee]

The local, state and national benefits that apply to couples who wish to be married in other countries do not apply here.

This is Thailand... remember? People do not file their taxes. People do not do a lot of things. Insurance benefits are individual and do not cover a dependent, whether you have a job or what. If your partner has a problem, and any financial assistance is needed, it is usually on an individual basis, and has no bearing on a husband, wife or partner, and so on.

There really is no financial advantage to "being married" here that a simple Last Will and Testament would not cover in the event of a death, because whilst one is alive, one's mere existence benefits no one else other than through the joy and love ones demonstrates.

So, my point is that being married to a same gender partner here in Thailand is more than likely all about choosing to be with that person, but the only difference being you have a piece of paper to show for it.

It is simply not as big of a deal here than, say, in the USA, where laws are actually followed and enforced.

This couple, who filed for marriage, I believe are confused and do not understand reality; or, rather instead, they simply want to cause trouble to a system that does not give a hoot about recognizing their choice in a rather personal matter.

Edited July 30, 2013 by cup-O-coffee

[ToddWeston]

From all the information that I can find, Thailand's tourist income would greatly increase if the country made marriage possible for all people. The first country in Asia, New

Zealand to legalized all marriages, is set to see an amazing influx of dollars. With this single move, Thailand would see a much increased tourist revenue if they did not make the regulations too difficult. It would be a good economic move!

I understand your reasoning however on the other side of the coin I was living in Toronto when same sex marriage became legal and the Americans came up to get married by the bus load, IMHO a marriage licence is not a souvenir and I found the notion of foreigners using our law a little over the top.

I'm married and would indeed be in an civil union if that was what was an option but I would only marry in a country I was either a citizen or resident of or my hubby.

[Jingthing]

Gay Marriage Coming to Thailand?

Maybe. In several decades.

Same sex civil unions?

Maybe sooner. Maybe not.

The headline in the OP is flawed. Legalizing gay marriage is not even on the legislative table in Thailand.

[pb1936]

What a bore !

[BuriramRes]

From all the information that I can find, Thailand's tourist income would greatly increase if the country made marriage possible for all people. The first country in Asia, New

Zealand to legalized all marriages, is set to see an amazing influx of dollars. With this single move, Thailand would see a much increased tourist revenue if they did not make the regulations too difficult. It would be a good economic move!

Surely these people are not the type that any country would want to attract!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (written by a NZ national)

[Jingthing]

From all the information that I can find, Thailand's tourist income would greatly increase if the country made marriage possible for all people. The first country in Asia, New

Zealand to legalized all marriages, is set to see an amazing influx of dollars. With this single move, Thailand would see a much increased tourist revenue if they did not make the regulations too difficult. It would be a good economic move!

Surely these people are not the type that any country would want to attract!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (written by a NZ national)

That would be incorrect. A number of countries openly promote gay tourism specifically in their nationally funded tourism campaigns.

Cheers!

[ToddWeston]

From all the information that I can find, Thailand's tourist income would greatly increase if the country made marriage possible for all people. The first country in Asia, New

Zealand to legalized all marriages, is set to see an amazing influx of dollars. With this single move, Thailand would see a much increased tourist revenue if they did not make the regulations too difficult. It would be a good economic move!

Surely these people are not the type that any country would want to attract!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (written by a NZ national)

That would be incorrect. A number of countries openly promote gay tourism specifically in their nationally funded tourism campaigns.

Cheers!

Promoting a destination to gay clientele is fine, allowing and promoting marriage to a destination is wrong IMHO. if an American can't marry in his own country why should I care ? making a destination a marriage paper mill hib takes away from my marriage and turns it into a circus.

[Jingthing]

From all the information that I can find, Thailand's tourist income would greatly increase if the country made marriage possible for all people. The first country in Asia, New

Zealand to legalized all marriages, is set to see an amazing influx of dollars. With this single move, Thailand would see a much increased tourist revenue if they did not make the regulations too difficult. It would be a good economic move!

Surely these people are not the type that any country would want to attract!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (written by a NZ national)

That would be incorrect. A number of countries openly promote gay tourism specifically in their nationally funded tourism campaigns.

Cheers!

Promoting a destination to gay clientele is fine, allowing and promoting marriage to a destination is wrong IMHO. if an American can't marry in his own country why should I care ? making a destination a marriage paper mill hib takes away from my marriage and turns it into a circus.

Let's back up a skosh and get some facts straight.

Does New Zealand actually allow two foreign people to just visit and marry?

That's the first question.

Are you REALLY sure about that? Can you document it?

If that's really true what's the problem anyway?

Those marriages would be legally MEANINGLESS if those couples go home to countries that do not recognize those marriages, which is still the vast majority of countries in the world (sadly).

I recall CANADA used to allow these show gay marriages, mostly used by Americans, but then stopped allowing them.

Edited July 30, 2013 by Jingthing

[isanbirder]

I just wonder if Thailand is ready for that big change .... I would be happy for anyone who find happiness in same sex or different sex marriage ....Everybody have the right to be happy.

It really wouldn't be a big change. Plenty of gay couples live together openly in Thailand already.

There would be little direct benefit... but the parents of the couple would be happy to see it (my prospective in-laws would anyway).

[pacharaphet]

From all the information that I can find, Thailand's tourist income would greatly increase if the country made marriage possible for all people. The first country in Asia, New

Zealand to legalized all marriages, is set to see an amazing influx of dollars. With this single move, Thailand would see a much increased tourist revenue if they did not make the regulations too difficult. It would be a good economic move!

Well done, you correctly reminded everyone what social issues are really about: how can we increase our image as free and liberal nation so that more people come buy our stuff and visit our country?

I'm dead serious, you are right about it being a good economic move, and I am not so naive to play the: but it's the humane and right and just blah blah thing to do...because it's not like most countries, let alone Thailand, make decisions based on "the humane thing to do". Years of protest, some of them violent, need to occur, every single time a new social issue is brought to the state's attention. Don't think the state does it cause they are "good volk", they do it to avoid public turmoil. As long as Thailand says that legalizing such a marriage would be a threat to national stability, well....you all can figure out the rest.

[Jingthing]

Here is the current list of legal gay marriage countries.

I think Mexico and the USA should now be on the list, as it possible for these nationals to get gay married, but not nationwide.

Of this list I am certain a number did involve protests (and lobbying, etc.) for years before the laws were passed. It would be a project to research each one for the protest/lobbying history of each. If anyone is up to that, please report!

http://dailypostal.com/2013/07/17/list-of-countries-where-gay-marriage-is-legal/

[Scott]

An inflammatory post has been removed. Please stay on topic.

[LeCharivari]

Here is the current list of legal gay marriage countries.

I think Mexico and the USA should now be on the list, as it possible for these nationals to get gay married, but not nationwide.

Of this list I am certain a number did involve protests (and lobbying, etc.) for years before the laws were passed. It would be a project to research each one for the protest/lobbying history of each. If anyone is up to that, please report!

http://dailypostal.com/2013/07/17/list-of-countries-where-gay-marriage-is-legal/

I'd be only too happy to as I already have, but as all posts referring to this have been removed except yours I am not sure if doing so would be deemed inflammatory or off-topic so I'll wait for some guidance on this before doing so.

[Jingthing]

Not sure what could possibly be inflammatory about a summary of the history of a bunch of gay rights movements. I could see such a report could be biased if someone has an agenda to push. For example, government actions could just be listed without any CONTEXT. I am clearly biased towards believing lobbying groups, protests, visibility, gay parades, etc. have an overall POSITIVE impact towards progress in many countries where someone else may not think such things are even worthy of mentioning.

Edited July 31, 2013 by Jingthing

[ToddWeston]

Not sure what could possibly be inflammatory about a summary of the history of a bunch of gay rights movements. I could see such a report could be biased if someone has an agenda to push. For example, government actions could just be listed without any CONTEXT. I am clearly biased towards believing lobbying groups, protests, visibility, gay parades, etc. have an overall POSITIVE impact towards progress in many countries where someone else may not think such things are even worthy of mentioning.

Yikes parades really ? I find them disgusting. if that's a call to action count me out. I've never been and will never attend such an event. I don't see them as positive at all perhaps it's a cutural age issue that some feel it's a way to express themselves but positive not in my country or circle of friends gay or straight.

[LeCharivari]

Not sure what could possibly be inflammatory about a summary of the history of a bunch of gay rights movements. I could see such a report could be biased if someone has an agenda to push. For example, government actions could just be listed without any CONTEXT. I am clearly biased towards believing lobbying groups, protests, visibility, gay parades, etc. have an overall POSITIVE impact towards progress in many countries where someone else may not think such things are even worthy of mentioning.

Agreed ... on all counts!

[anotheruser]

There is no point to get married in Thailand as there are no benefits at all of doing so. As far as the USA goes it should be on the same sex marriages allowed list now. I say that because now a part of the DOMA has been stricken down that means marriages are at least recognised federally. Individual states don't have to recognise other states marriages but the feds do. Meaning if you live somewhere like Alabama and you go get married in California you can still bring your partner to the USA for immigration purposes.

[Jingthing]

Not sure what could possibly be inflammatory about a summary of the history of a bunch of gay rights movements. I could see such a report could be biased if someone has an agenda to push. For example, government actions could just be listed without any CONTEXT. I am clearly biased towards believing lobbying groups, protests, visibility, gay parades, etc. have an overall POSITIVE impact towards progress in many countries where someone else may not think such things are even worthy of mentioning.

Yikes parades really ? I find them disgusting. if that's a call to action count me out. I've never been and will never attend such an event. I don't see them as positive at all perhaps it's a cutural age issue that some feel it's a way to express themselves but positive not in my country or circle of friends gay or straight.

You misunderstand me. There is a context to my comment. Brazil has gay marriage now. How did that happen? It did not come out of thin air. Listing the government actions that made that happen would not tell the whole story. Part of the story would be the political lobbying groups and history including the visibility and political power demonstrated at massive gay parades in Sao Paolo. Each country has a different story but I am sure in most countries there is an element of relevance outside just listing government action histories. Not parades of course, but also political actions and PROTEST events. It all adds up. In some countries in some times, gay parades were/still are mostly political protests anyway rather than parties and commercial events. That's how they STARTED in the U.S. I know because I was there. In some countries attending a gay parade today means risking your life. How do you get legal rights if you are not VISIBLE. Gay public events are part of visibility.

Edited July 31, 2013 by Jingthing

[ToddWeston]

Not sure what could possibly be inflammatory about a summary of the history of a bunch of gay rights movements. I could see such a report could be biased if someone has an agenda to push. For example, government actions could just be listed without any CONTEXT. I am clearly biased towards believing lobbying groups, protests, visibility, gay parades, etc. have an overall POSITIVE impact towards progress in many countries where someone else may not think such things are even worthy of mentioning.

Yikes parades really ? I find them disgusting. if that's a call to action count me out. I've never been and will never attend such an event. I don't see them as positive at all perhaps it's a cutural age issue that some feel it's a way to express themselves but positive not in my country or circle of friends gay or straight.

You misunderstand me. There is a context to my comment. Brazil has gay marriage now. How did that happen? It did not come out of thin air. Listing the government actions that made that happen would not tell the whole story. Part of the story would be the political lobbying groups and history including the visibility and political power demonstrated at massive gay parades in Sao Paolo. Each country has a different story but I am sure in most countries there is an element of relevance outside just listing government action histories.

I'll reply in the morning, one of my dearest friends was the very first to me married in Belo Horizonte. I'll also post a story that brought tears to my eyes to tonight (yes happy story)

[LeCharivari]

Not sure what could possibly be inflammatory about a summary of the history of a bunch of gay rights movements. I could see such a report could be biased if someone has an agenda to push. For example, government actions could just be listed without any CONTEXT. I am clearly biased towards believing lobbying groups, protests, visibility, gay parades, etc. have an overall POSITIVE impact towards progress in many countries where someone else may not think such things are even worthy of mentioning.

Yikes parades really ? I find them disgusting. if that's a call to action count me out. I've never been and will never attend such an event. I don't see them as positive at all perhaps it's a cutural age issue that some feel it's a way to express themselves but positive not in my country or circle of friends gay or straight.

You misunderstand me. There is a context to my comment. Brazil has gay marriage now. How did that happen? It did not come out of thin air. Listing the government actions that made that happen would not tell the whole story. Part of the story would be the political lobbying groups and history including the visibility and political power demonstrated at massive gay parades in Sao Paolo. Each country has a different story but I am sure in most countries there is an element of relevance outside just listing government action histories. Not parades of course, but also political actions and PROTEST events. It all adds up. In some countries in some times, gay parades were/still are mostly political protests anyway rather than parties and commercial events. That's how they STARTED in the U.S. I know because I was there. In some countries attending a gay parade today means risking your life. How do you get legal rights if you are not VISIBLE. Gay public events are part of visibility.

"Brazil has gay marriage now. How did that happen? It did not come out of thin air."

It happened the same way it has happened everywhere else - by steady progression, from local civil unions in 2004 to extending the same rights married couples had to same-sex couples in 2011, to same-sex marriage in 2013.

Along the way were gay pride parades, made with government support, approval and funding and the government-sponsored LGBT conference in 2008. Look elsewhere for lobbying, protest events, etc. as they had no notable impact in Brazil.

[Jingthing]

"Brazil has gay marriage now. How did that happen? It did not come out of thin air."

It happened the same way it has happened everywhere else - by steady progression, from local civil unions in 2004 to extending the same rights married couples had to same-sex couples in 2011, to same-sex marriage in 2013.

Along the way were gay pride parades, made with government support, approval and funding and the government-sponsored LGBT conference in 2008. Look elsewhere for lobbying, protest events, etc. as they had no notable impact in Brazil.

Can you provide credible source documentation that political lobbying, protest events, and gay visibility in mass parades had no positive impact in Brazil? Because if not, I suggest you preface such assertions by labeling them as your OPINION. Stating opinions is fine but I think it's better not the muddy things up by presenting them as facts.

I do not present myself as an expert on Brazil.

However, here is some evidence that gay political activists are/were part of the process of great gains in gay civil rights in that country.

I would really be shocked if Brazil's government just magically decided to grant gays their civil rights.

Activists and social movements.

http://www.globalissues.org/news/2011/08/25/10964

The 109-article bill, which would reform 132 legal provisions, was drafted by a special commission of experts set up by the Federal Council of the national bar association (OAB), who received some 200 suggestions and contributions from activists and social movements over the last four months.

This is interesting. Clearly more to be done in Brazil:

http://www.advocate.com/print-issue/current-issue/2013/01/10/fighting-back-brazil

A well-publicized 2011 report from the gay rights organization Grupo Gay da Bahía found attacks and murders on the rise; LGBT people were being bashed once every 36 hours. And last fall at least 15 gay activists in Curitiba, a prominent southern city, received death threats.

...

“Religious intolerance among some evangelical groups against LGBT people is increasing,” he says, adding that many church leaders actively lobby politicians against gay rights.

Edited July 31, 2013 by Jingthing

[sustento]

There is no point to get married in Thailand as there are no benefits at all of doing so.

There's the benefit of making a public commitment to someone you love. Life isn't all death and taxes.