Bitcoins banned in Thailand

[webfact]

Bitcoins banned in Thailand

Thailand has become the first country to ban bitcoins after the central bank ruled it is not a currency.

BANGKOK: -- In a statement on its website, Bitcoin said it had given a presentation to the Bank of Thailand about how the currency works in a bid to operate in the country.

However, at the end of the meeting, "senior members of the Foreign Exchange Administration and Policy Department advised that due to lack of existing applicable laws, capital controls and the fact that Bitcoin straddles multiple financial facets... Bitcoin activities are illegal in Thailand".

The ruling means it is illegal to buy and sell bitcoins, buy or sell any goods or services in exchange for bitcoins, send any bitcoins to anyone outside of Thailand, or receive bitcoins from anyone outside the country.

Full story: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/currency/10210022/Bitcoins-banned-in-Thailand.html

-- The Telegraph 2013-07-30

[theblether]

Quite right, a ridiculous stupid concept which is a hackers paradise.

[NCC1701A]

How will they know?

[bdw]

Good luck enforcing that !

[Psych01]

Hahaha! So forward thinking, as usual. Who, I wonder, actually read and understood anything about? And please, no trolls. I am being rhetorical.

[dknslowly]

Are bitcoin transactions anonymous you may ask? From the bitcoin website...

"The main problem is that every transaction is publicly logged. Anyone can see the flow of Bitcoins from address to address (see first image). Alone, this information can't identify anyone because the addresses are just random numbers. However, if any of the addresses in a transaction's past or future can be tied to an actual identity, it might be possible to work from that point and guess who may owns all of the other addresses. This identity information might come from network analysis, surveillance, or just Googling the address. The officially-encouraged practice of using a new address for every transaction is designed to make this attack more difficult..."

Thus it is not anonymous until such time as you pay for a VPN. At which time you are now "anonymous".

[oxo1947]

In late-2011, the exchange rate of the bitcoin crashed from over $30 in June to below $2 in October.

Just one of many good reasons to keep a distance from them--

[technologybytes]

Bitcoin is important because it's independent of control from banks, governments and financial institutions.

I purchased some Bitcoins a couple of months ago from a trader in Thailand and paid for them through Kasikorn. I can see how that may now technically be illegal. However If I make a payment to another expat who lives in Thailand via Bitcoin then I doubt that would be illegal unless someone attempts to directly convert Bitcoin to Baht or Baht to Bitcoin.

Most of the negative opinions about Bitcoin are made by people who have never used Bitcoin, and the suggestion that Bitcoin is only used by hackers, drug dealers and criminals is untrue. Bitcoin can be annonymous, but for most people it does not need to be anonymous it just needs to be safe and secure. Some people think it's less real than dollars because it only exists in a digital form.. if you think 99% of dollars exist in anything other then digital form then you need to wake up!

[quiksilva]

In late-2011, the exchange rate of the bitcoin crashed from over $30 in June to below $2 in October.

Just one of many good reasons to keep a distance from them--

Indeed, I looked at it for an on-line purchase a while back but disregarded it due to bitcoins' volatility. But still, hardly a reason to ban them.

[AngelsLariat]

Bitcoin is important because it's independent of control from banks, governments and financial institutions.

You state that as though those are self evident truths. Of what advantage is it to consumers that they are independent of banks, governments and financial institutions?

[Lancelot]

I don't know if Bit Coins are worthwhile or not. However, where is the "Freedom" that so many folks declare that Thailand affords us? If we were really so "free" here, we could participate in the Bitcoin craze if we so desired

[chiangmaisurprise]

Bitcoin is important because it's independent of control from banks, governments and financial institutions.

You state that as though those are self evident truths. Of what advantage is it to consumers that they are independent of banks, governments and financial institutions?

Lets start with a few:

Low to no fees

No border restriction (except Thailand)

No bank holidays

Faster transactions

Stronger protection against identity theft

[PaulHamon]

Are bitcoin transactions anonymous you may ask? From the bitcoin website...

"The main problem is that every transaction is publicly logged. Anyone can see the flow of Bitcoins from address to address (see first image). Alone, this information can't identify anyone because the addresses are just random numbers. However, if any of the addresses in a transaction's past or future can be tied to an actual identity, it might be possible to work from that point and guess who may owns all of the other addresses. This identity information might come from network analysis, surveillance, or just Googling the address. The officially-encouraged practice of using a new address for every transaction is designed to make this attack more difficult..."

Thus it is not anonymous until such time as you pay for a VPN. At which time you are now "anonymous".

Of course you can purchase Bitcoins offline, store them offline.

You don't NEED to purchase them thru a website, it's just more convinent.

[AngelsLariat]

Bitcoin is important because it's independent of control from banks, governments and financial institutions.

You state that as though those are self evident truths. Of what advantage is it to consumers that they are independent of banks, governments and financial institutions?

Lets start with a few:

Low to no fees

No border restriction (except Thailand)

No bank holidays

Faster transactions

Stronger protection against identity theft

Less volatility? Immune from a "run on the bank"?

[digibum]

I've had several debates with rabid Bitcoin fanatic friends and for me it always comes down to the viability of an alternative form of currency. The biggest problem you have is that once it grows to a certain size governments are going to start looking at it seriously.

There's a reason why governments like to track the flow of currency in an economy. Taxation, money laundering (specifically as it relates to illegal activities), and forecasting economic trends.

Nearly every country has restrictions on how much money you can physically bring into or out of their country. Similarly, they have computerized methods for flagging transactions above a certain level. They obviously take this money tracking stuff seriously. To think they would simply allow another form of moving money that they can't track or control is wishful thinking.

You can argue until you're blue in the face about it being better or more secure or people's rights to privacy or whatever but when do governments listen to logic when large corporate interests or their own interests fall into conflict with something?

I've never argued that it's a bad idea. It's simply that the chances of any major government allowing citizens to freely transfer funds without any control over that process is not very realistic.

[Cuban]

Banned because they can't tax it - no other reason whatsoever.

[AngelsLariat]

I don't know if Bit Coins are worthwhile or not. However, where is the "Freedom" that so many folks declare that Thailand affords us? If we were really so "free" here, we could participate in the Bitcoin craze if we so desired

That "freedom" comes more from laws not being enforced than from Thailand's laws being enlightened.

[chiangmaisurprise]

I've had several debates with rabid Bitcoin fanatic friends and for me it always comes down to the viability of an alternative form of currency. The biggest problem you have is that once it grows to a certain size governments are going to start looking at it seriously.

There's a reason why governments like to track the flow of currency in an economy. Taxation, money laundering (specifically as it relates to illegal activities), and forecasting economic trends.

Nearly every country has restrictions on how much money you can physically bring into or out of their country. Similarly, they have computerized methods for flagging transactions above a certain level. They obviously take this money tracking stuff seriously. To think they would simply allow another form of moving money that they can't track or control is wishful thinking.

You can argue until you're blue in the face about it being better or more secure or people's rights to privacy or whatever but when do governments listen to logic when large corporate interests or their own interests fall into conflict with something?

I've never argued that it's a bad idea. It's simply that the chances of any major government allowing citizens to freely transfer funds without any control over that process is not very realistic.

But hey, the guys that really invented Facebook put 20m into a Bitcoin Trust. Must mean its good right??

[puukao]

Bitcoin uses a BIP-16 Pay-To-Script-Hash scripts. Even a 5th-grader can hack that!!!! And their ECDSA is extremely primitive!!! I recommend to knock on the door twice, pause, then make a bird sound. followed by a conversation in Cherokee Indian. now that will work.

[beb]

As I read this and with some help from a friend, the headlines are not in line with the actual facts. The "bitcoin officials" are a bitcoin exchange and there wasn't a law passed making bitcoins illegal. But there is a legal issue to be resolved.

I am repeatedly impressed by bitcoin experts who read about it one time when it was in the news that time when they were drinking coffee that time at that place in that other place once.

[Briggsy]

Currencies are created by governments by the issuance of promissory notes. If you or I sell goods or services and receive say, Baht, the Central Bank is the debtor and you or I are the creditor. The 2 sides of the double-entry system are satisfied.

Quite simply, if you or I hold Bitcoins, we again are the creditor but who is the debtor if there is no central bank?

I am sorry I need somebody to answer this fundamental question regarding this 'currency'.

[joepattaya1961]

I think that the Bitcoins do not fit into the tea-money and corruption schemes in Thailand.

Would be amazing to see corruption tracked online by the Bitcoin website.

[johnkypri]

This is journalism at it's worst;

A) You can't have a meeting with Bitcoin it's a peer to peer network.
A meeting took place with Bitcoin.co.uk a small bitcoin exchange with a million Baht capital (20k pounds and I believe the minimum amount you can start a Thai company with)
3) The source of this information is mad as a brush and suggests foreigners boycott purchasing goods from Thailand.
4) Title should read; Butthurt Thai Bitcoin Exchange makes wild claims after getting refused bank account.

If you're going to make a story relating too a law change quote a government source not someone that's upset he's been refused banking!!!

[FiestyFarang]

Control foreign currency movements making it easier to control the Baht. Any other developed country has a controlled country - no, most rich countries changed in the 1970's Anyone that stays here a long time knows it is like living in the past. I heard it is very difficult to take foreign currency out but easy to bring in....................enough said.

[technologybytes]

Bitcoin is important because it's independent of control from banks, governments and financial institutions.

You state that as though those are self evident truths. Of what advantage is it to consumers that they are independent of banks, governments and financial institutions?

Well I guess it depends on how much you trust big banks and governments. Personally I think it's a big deal because I have very little trust in banks and government, you may feel different and you are of course entitled to your opinion.. as such you are highly unlikely to be a early adopter of Bitcoin.

[thhMan]

Quite right, a ridiculous stupid concept which is a hackers paradise.

How so... please explain....

[indyuk]

Bit Coin caught my interest this weekend because it was given a mention on the BEEB in 'Click'. Now I'm thinking all kinds of shady thoughs about this currency.

However it is the issues mentioned in comments herein, particularly the legal status of Bit Coin that concern me most.

[KuhnPaen]

Maybe they were paying all of the recent assassins in Bit Coins. Just a thought. Not a bad way to do it.

[Maestro]

This is journalism at it's worst;

A) You can't have a meeting with Bitcoin it's a peer to peer network.

A meeting took place with Bitcoin.co.uk a small bitcoin exchange with a million Baht capital (20k pounds and I believe the minimum amount you can start a Thai company with)

3) The source of this information is mad as a brush and suggests foreigners boycott purchasing goods from Thailand.

4) Title should read; Butthurt Thai Bitcoin Exchange makes wild claims after getting refused bank account.

If you're going to make a story relating too a law change quote a government source not someone that's upset he's been refused banking!!!

The source of this information, ie of the news article in the first post of this topic, is, as the article says in the first sentence, a statement on the website of Bitcoin. If you click on the link at the end of that first post you will see the article in The Telegraph and there is a link to the mentioned statement. For easy reference, I copy that sentence from the article with the link here:

In a statement on its website, Bitcoin said it had given a presentation to the Bank of Thailand about how the currency works in a bid to operate in the country.

Therefore, when you say that "The source of this information is mad as a brush" you are saying that the management of Bitcoin Co. Ltd., a company with a mailing address in Thailand and presumably registered in Thailand, is mad as a brush, thus exposing yourself to the risk of an accusation of libel and defamation. Hopefully, they will not understand this Irish slang.

[lupin]

In late-2011, the exchange rate of the bitcoin crashed from over $30 in June to below $2 in October.

Just one of many good reasons to keep a distance from them--

and the value of the THB in 1997?