Appealing UK Settlement Visa Rejection of Wife's son

[Kevin1908]

The wife is off to Thailand in a few weeks for a holiday so I want to ensure that she has all the docments in place that we will need at the appeal. I never actually seen what she submitted as she dealt with a very iffy agent. To start I iave got the divorce certificate translated, Kor Ror 6, and this quit clearly states that the son is in the sole care of the mother.

Last night the wife and I met up with the Thai translator that I use in London so she could see what documents need translating. One interesting fact emerged, the letter from her ex stating that he gives permission for his son to leave the country is dated after the visa application was submitted so it looks like this was in reaction to the visa refusal and realising that he, the iffy visa agent, had **** up.

The translator is now going to translate this. We explained that the appeal is to be done in the UK.

The crucial reason that UKBA turned doen the application seems to stem from the telephone interview with the boy. I want to get the wife to get him to make a statement correcting the interview. This was done while he was in class at school and he had problems hearing and understanding. I think he felt pressured to go ahead for fear that if he said the timing was inconvenient that his application would automatically have been rejected so went ahead. Clearly what he said was at odds with what the mother and father said but UKBA have ignored the parents statements.

Are there any other documents that I will need for this appeal?

[7by7]

I don't have the time to look at your past posts on this, but if memory serves he was refused on sole responsibility grounds; correct?

You say that you have input from his father, e.g. "the letter from her ex stating that he gives permission for his son to leave the country" and "what he (the boy in the telephone interview) said was at odds with what the mother and father said"

Both of these indicate that the father still plays a part in the boy's upbringing and is still involved in making the decisions about the boy's life.

I believe that this means that your wife does not meet the sole responsibility requirement and so the appeal will fail.

SET7.8 What is sole responsibility?

Hopefully Tony M or someone else with more experience in this than I will be along soon to advise.

[ThaiVisaExpress]

7x7's concerns are correct. This is the latest definition of sole responsibility :

Sole responsibility means that one parent has abdicated or abandoned parental responsibility and the remaining parent is instead exercising sole control in setting and providing the day to day direction for the child’s welfare.

The ECO could take the view that a letter from the child's father indicates that the father has not abdicated all parental responsibility. You really should take advice from a qualified immigration advisor ( Level 3 OISC registered), or someone similar.

Tony M

[Kevin1908]

I don't have the time to look at your past posts on this, but if memory serves he was refused on sole responsibility grounds; correct?

You say that you have input from his father, e.g. "the letter from her ex stating that he gives permission for his son to leave the country" and "what he (the boy in the telephone interview) said was at odds with what the mother and father said"

Both of these indicate that the father still plays a part in the boy's upbringing and is still involved in making the decisions about the boy's life.

I believe that this means that your wife does not meet the sole responsibility requirement and so the appeal will fail.

SET7.8 What is sole responsibility?

Hopefully Tony M or someone else with more experience in this than I will be along soon to advise.

Well done on basing you reply on the irrelevant. UKBA turned down the application on the basis that they said the father still had significant involvment in the boys life. There was no evidense to support that assertion. In fact the father had no involvement in the boys life. So the basis of the appeal is, is the mother and the father right when they say the father has no involvement, even the father stated this, or is the UKBA's statement correct, on the basis of them having no evidense.

So the up shot is the father plays no part in the boys life. The mother therefore meets the requirement that she is soley repsonsible. If not then who is repsonsible if the mother doesn't have sole responsibility and the father has none?

I guess it will be my evidense verses what ever the UKBA care to submit as evidense to the contrary. I await in anticipation.

Your link doesn't work by the way.

[Kevin1908]

7x7's concerns are correct. This is the latest definition of sole responsibility :

Sole responsibility means that one parent has abdicated or abandoned parental responsibility and the remaining parent is instead exercising sole control in setting and providing the day to day direction for the child’s welfare.

The ECO could take the view that a letter from the child's father indicates that the father has not abdicated all parental responsibility. You really should take advice from a qualified immigration advisor ( Level 3 OISC registered), or someone similar.

Tony M

I would say that you quote in italics fits the bill exactly. The father's evidense confirms that he has abandoned his parental resonsibility.

[simple1]

SET7.8 What is sole responsibility?

A sponsoring parent (see SET7.2) must be able to show that he/she has been solely responsible for exercising parental care over the child for a substantial period.

If the sponsoring parent and child are separated, the child will normally be expected to have been in the care of the sponsoring parent's relatives rather than the relatives of the other parent. An application should normally be refused if the child has been in the care of the other parent's relatives and the other parent lives nearby and takes an active interest in the child's welfare.

The following factors should be considered in assessing sole responsibility:

• Are the parents married / in a civil partnership?
• If the parents' marriage / civil partnership is dissolved, which parent was awarded legal custody, which includes assumption of responsibility for the child?
• Where there is a custody order the ECO should take care to ensure that the issue of a settlement entry clearance to the child will not contravene the terms of the custody order. See list for countries whose custody orders can be recognised as valid in UK (copy can be downloaded under 'Related documents' on the right side of this page).
• Does the marriage / civil partnership subsist, but the parents do not live together?
• If the sponsoring parent migrated to the UK, how long has the sponsoring parent been separated from the child?
• If the sponsoring parent migrated to the UK, what were the arrangements for the care of the child before and after the sponsoring parent migrated?
• If the sponsoring parent migrated to the UK, what has been / what is the sponsoring parent's relationship with the child?
• Has the sponsoring parent consistently supported the child, either by:

  direct personal care; or by regular and substantial financial remittances?

• By whom, and in what proportions, is the cost of the child's maintenance borne?
• Who takes the important decisions about the child's upbringing, for example where the child lives, the choice of school, religious practice etc?

[7by7]

I based my reply on what YOU posted.

You posted that the father wrote a letter given permission for his son to move to the UK.

You posted that what the boy said in his telephone interview was different to what his mother AND his father said.

All of which indicates that the father plays a role in the boy's life; certainly that he played a role in this application.

If the father has abandoned his parental responsibilities, why was he involved in the application at all?

But I am not going to get involved in a stupid argument with you. I suggest that you follow Tony's advice and speak to a Grade 3 OISC advisor. Though you may dislike what they have to say as much as you dislike what I've said here!

BTW, the link works for me.

[ThaiVisaExpress]

7x7's concerns are correct. This is the latest definition of sole responsibility :

Sole responsibility means that one parent has abdicated or abandoned parental responsibility and the remaining parent is instead exercising sole control in setting and providing the day to day direction for the child’s welfare.

The ECO could take the view that a letter from the child's father indicates that the father has not abdicated all parental responsibility. You really should take advice from a qualified immigration advisor ( Level 3 OISC registered), or someone similar.

Tony M

I would say that you quote in italics fits the bill exactly. The father's evidense confirms that he has abandoned his parental resonsibility.

Well, you may be right, and I hope you are, but I'm not sure you understood exactly the point I was making. The UKBA don't believe that all responsibility has been abandoned, and they may have some evidence for that. The appeal will decide it, of course. I would still advise you to get an opinion from a fully qualified advisor, especially as you don't even know what the grounds of appeal are ( if you haven't seen any of the documents submitted for the appeal).

Do you know what was said in the telephone interviews ?

What kind of appeal did you submit ? On papers, or an oral hearing ?

A Khor Ror 6 grants custody, not responsibility, so you cannot rely on this document alone to show sole responsibility

Tony M

[Kevin1908]

SET7.8 What is sole responsibility?

A sponsoring parent (see SET7.2) must be able to show that he/she has been solely responsible for exercising parental care over the child for a substantial period.

If the sponsoring parent and child are separated, the child will normally be expected to have been in the care of the sponsoring parent's relatives rather than the relatives of the other parent. An application should normally be refused if the child has been in the care of the other parent's relatives and the other parent lives nearby and takes an active interest in the child's welfare.

The following factors should be considered in assessing sole responsibility:

• Are the parents married / in a civil partnership?
• If the parents' marriage / civil partnership is dissolved, which parent was awarded legal custody, which includes assumption of responsibility for the child?
• Where there is a custody order the ECO should take care to ensure that the issue of a settlement entry clearance to the child will not contravene the terms of the custody order. See list for countries whose custody orders can be recognised as valid in UK (copy can be downloaded under 'Related documents' on the right side of this page).
• Does the marriage / civil partnership subsist, but the parents do not live together?
• If the sponsoring parent migrated to the UK, how long has the sponsoring parent been separated from the child?
• If the sponsoring parent migrated to the UK, what were the arrangements for the care of the child before and after the sponsoring parent migrated?
• If the sponsoring parent migrated to the UK, what has been / what is the sponsoring parent's relationship with the child?
• Has the sponsoring parent consistently supported the child, either by:

  direct personal care; or by regular and substantial financial remittances?

• By whom, and in what proportions, is the cost of the child's maintenance borne?
• Who takes the important decisions about the child's upbringing, for example where the child lives, the choice of school, religious practice etc?

On the basis of that I would say that the mother has sole resonsibilty for her son and the father has no or very little involvement, ie about 2 visits a year now reduced to nil as the boy is now in Surat Thani.

Are there any official documents that I will need over and above the ones that I have. Although not an Immigration expert the translator thinks not as she has had to translate a lot of official documents. Her friend who works at the London Embassy agreed that there wasn't anything else we needed.

I am sure that there must be somebody here who has been through an appeal for a dependent child.

[simple1]

SET7.8 What is sole responsibility?

A sponsoring parent (see SET7.2) must be able to show that he/she has been solely responsible for exercising parental care over the child for a substantial period.

If the sponsoring parent and child are separated, the child will normally be expected to have been in the care of the sponsoring parent's relatives rather than the relatives of the other parent. An application should normally be refused if the child has been in the care of the other parent's relatives and the other parent lives nearby and takes an active interest in the child's welfare.

The following factors should be considered in assessing sole responsibility:

• Are the parents married / in a civil partnership?
• If the parents' marriage / civil partnership is dissolved, which parent was awarded legal custody, which includes assumption of responsibility for the child?
• Where there is a custody order the ECO should take care to ensure that the issue of a settlement entry clearance to the child will not contravene the terms of the custody order. See list for countries whose custody orders can be recognised as valid in UK (copy can be downloaded under 'Related documents' on the right side of this page).
• Does the marriage / civil partnership subsist, but the parents do not live together?
• If the sponsoring parent migrated to the UK, how long has the sponsoring parent been separated from the child?
• If the sponsoring parent migrated to the UK, what were the arrangements for the care of the child before and after the sponsoring parent migrated?
• If the sponsoring parent migrated to the UK, what has been / what is the sponsoring parent's relationship with the child?
• Has the sponsoring parent consistently supported the child, either by:

  direct personal care; or by regular and substantial financial remittances?

• By whom, and in what proportions, is the cost of the child's maintenance borne?
• Who takes the important decisions about the child's upbringing, for example where the child lives, the choice of school, religious practice etc?

On the basis of that I would say that the mother has sole resonsibilty for her son and the father has no or very little involvement, ie about 2 visits a year now reduced to nil as the boy is now in Surat Thani.

Are there any official documents that I will need over and above the ones that I have. Although not an Immigration expert the translator thinks not as she has had to translate a lot of official documents. Her friend who works at the London Embassy agreed that there wasn't anything else we needed.

I am sure that there must be somebody here who has been through an appeal for a dependent child.

I cannot answer your question, if I were in your shoes I would run with Tony's advice and speak to a Grade 3 OISC advisor.

[7by7]

My final word to you on this matter.

Do not take the word of a translator or someone who works at the Thai embassy in London on UK immigration matters; especially in what appears to be a complex appeal!

Seek competent, professional advice from a grade 3 OISC advisor or a UK based solicitor who specialises in immigration appeals.

Up to you whether or not you do so.

[Kevin1908]

My final word to you on this matter.

Do not take the word of a translator or someone who works at the Thai embassy in London on UK immigration matters; especially in what appears to be a complex appeal!

Seek competent, professional advice from a grade 3 OISC advisor or a UK based solicitor who specialises in immigration appeals.

Up to you whether or not you do so.

I am not taking the word of the translator. I am dealing with an Immigration solicitor but for my own peace of mind I was trying to determine ahead of my wife going on holiday back to Thailand whether there are any people with knowledge of Thai law can advise if there are any documents other than the Kor Ror 6 that my wife needs to get while she is there?

Could we keep it on topic.

[Jay Sata]

The problem appears to be one that crops up recurrently.

The crucial reason that UKBA turned doen the application seems to stem from the telephone interview with the boy. I want to get the wife to get him to make a statement correcting the interview. This was done while he was in class at school and he had problems hearing and understanding. I think he felt pressured to go ahead for fear that if he said the timing was inconvenient that his application would automatically have been rejected so went ahead. Clearly what he said was at odds with what the mother and father said but UKBA have ignored the parents statements.

The kid has told a different story in the telephone interview.

.

[Kevin1908]

Well, you may be right, and I hope you are, but I'm not sure you understood exactly the point I was making. The UKBA don't believe that all responsibility has been abandoned, and they may have some evidence for that. The appeal will decide it, of course. I would still advise you to get an opinion from a fully qualified advisor, especially as you don't even know what the grounds of appeal are ( if you haven't seen any of the documents submitted for the appeal).

Do you know what was said in the telephone interviews ?

What kind of appeal did you submit ? On papers, or an oral hearing ?

A Khor Ror 6 grants custody, not responsibility, so you cannot rely on this document alone to show sole responsibility

Tony M

I am using a visa appeal service in the UK. I have the transcripts but that is not the same as what was actually said at the interview. I have asked via my MP for the actual recordings but they don't keep them.

It will be an oral hearing in the UK.

I am not sure what you mean by responsibility, if you mean who pays the bills, does all the schooling, looks after the boy 24/7 then it aint the father. Father has zero responsibility and I think even he would admit that.

Do I take it that we have all the relevant documents that we will need from Thailand? There are no more court documents that we require?

I am not sure what evidence UKBA might have that the father has abandoned all responsibility, I guess that we will find out there case at the appeal hearing.

Does the applicant have the right to attend the hearing? That will of course mean that he will have to travel to the UK

[Jay Sata]

I appreciate you may be paying the bills but unless you have adopted the kid ( a nightmare and long drawn out procedure) it's down to the interviews in Thailand in Thai over the phone with the child.

I suspect the kid still speaks to his father and has contact with him on the phone/Internet.

Mothers often want to severe ties with the father to put the relationship behind them.

I disagree and feel children should always maintain contact with both parents.

I'm of the opinion they throw loaded questions at the kid/spouse/partner and tick boxes.

Appeals cost money.

Does the applicant have the right to attend the hearing? That will of course mean that he will have to travel to the UK

Your wife/partner is the applicant not the child.

Edited August 1, 2013 by Jay Sata

[Kevin1908]

I appreciate you may be paying the bills but unless you have adopted the kid ( a nightmare and long drawn out procedure) it's down to the interviews in Thailand in Thai over the phone with the child.

I suspect the kid still speaks to his father and has contact with him on the phone/Internet.

Mothers often want to severe ties with the father to put the relationship behind them.

I disagree and feel children should always maintain contact with both parents.

I'm of the opinion they throw loaded questions at the kid/spouse/partner and tick boxes.

Appeals cost money.

Does the applicant have the right to attend the hearing? That will of course mean that he will have to travel to the UK

Your wife/partner is the applicant not the child.

I suppose it takes an organisation like UKBA to give more rights to the father who pays nothing, cares for nothing but makes the occasional phone call or chats on Skype once in a while which of course he can still do even if his son is in the UK. Also the father has not objected to him going. What right do UKBA have to decide on behalf of the father. Now had he raise objections I can understand but he hasn't.

It is right that some mothers do as you suggest but it is equally true some fathers don't care. It will be interesting to see how many times the dad has taken the trip from Bangkok to Surat Thani to see his son.

[JLCrab]

The problem appears to be one that crops up recurrently.

The crucial reason that UKBA turned doen the application seems to stem from the telephone interview with the boy. I want to get the wife to get him to make a statement correcting the interview. This was done while he was in class at school and he had problems hearing and understanding. I think he felt pressured to go ahead for fear that if he said the timing was inconvenient that his application would automatically have been rejected so went ahead. Clearly what he said was at odds with what the mother and father said but UKBA have ignored the parents statements.

The kid has told a different story in the telephone interview.

.

Investigators world-wide often put more credence in a caught-off-guard interview as then the interviewee might not remember straight away the scripted answers that they were supposed to give to the interviewer.

[Tony M]

I appreciate you may be paying the bills but unless you have adopted the kid ( a nightmare and long drawn out procedure) it's down to the interviews in Thailand in Thai over the phone with the child.

I suspect the kid still speaks to his father and has contact with him on the phone/Internet.

Mothers often want to severe ties with the father to put the relationship behind them.

I disagree and feel children should always maintain contact with both parents.

I'm of the opinion they throw loaded questions at the kid/spouse/partner and tick boxes.

Appeals cost money.

Does the applicant have the right to attend the hearing? That will of course mean that he will have to travel to the UK

Your wife/partner is the applicant not the child.

Yet again you talk absolute nonsense. And never once have you acknowledged your errors, or apologised for the incorrect posts you make. The child is the applicant, because the child is applying for the visa.

[Tony M]

Well, you may be right, and I hope you are, but I'm not sure you understood exactly the point I was making. The UKBA don't believe that all responsibility has been abandoned, and they may have some evidence for that. The appeal will decide it, of course. I would still advise you to get an opinion from a fully qualified advisor, especially as you don't even know what the grounds of appeal are ( if you haven't seen any of the documents submitted for the appeal).

Do you know what was said in the telephone interviews ?

What kind of appeal did you submit ? On papers, or an oral hearing ?

A Khor Ror 6 grants custody, not responsibility, so you cannot rely on this document alone to show sole responsibility

Tony M

I am using a visa appeal service in the UK. I have the transcripts but that is not the same as what was actually said at the interview. I have asked via my MP for the actual recordings but they don't keep them.

It will be an oral hearing in the UK.

I am not sure what you mean by responsibility, if you mean who pays the bills, does all the schooling, looks after the boy 24/7 then it aint the father. Father has zero responsibility and I think even he would admit that.

Do I take it that we have all the relevant documents that we will need from Thailand? There are no more court documents that we require?

I am not sure what evidence UKBA might have that the father has abandoned all responsibility, I guess that we will find out there case at the appeal hearing.

Does the applicant have the right to attend the hearing? That will of course mean that he will have to travel to the UK

The applicant does not have the right to attend the appeal in the UK. UKBA guidance says :

Such a person has no right to be granted leave to enter for the sole purpose of attending the hearing. However, the applicant may be granted leave to enter as a visitor where:

· the applicant can satisfy the ECO that only a visit is intended; and

· that the applicant will leave the UK regardless of the outcome of the appeal; and

· that the applicant otherwise qualifies for entry under the Rules.

The only Thai court document needed will be the Khor Ror 6, and as I have already said, this grants custody, not responsibility. Your wife has to prove sole responsibility. For instance, when it comes to the letter from the child's father, you say that this letter shows that the father no longer has any responsibility. The guidance on proving sole responsibility includes this :

Establishing sole responsibility

The ECO “must consider the following:

 Who asserts continual control in regards to the child’s upbringing including

· decisions regarding the child’s residence”

The UKBA can, and might, argue that because the father has given his consent to the child living in UK, then he is still making decisions, and therefore has some responsibility, regarding the child’s residence. You may not agree with that argument, but it might come up at the appeal.

You say that you are not sure what I mean about responsibility. This will have been shown in the refusal notice, that is, the areas where the ECO doesn’t think that your wife has sole responsibility.

Edited August 2, 2013 by Tony M

[Kevin1908]

The UKBA can, and might, argue that because the father has given his consent to the child living in UK, then he is still making decisions, and therefore has some responsibility, regarding the child’s residence. You may not agree with that argument, but it might come up at the appeal.

You say that you are not sure what I mean about responsibility. This will have been shown in the refusal notice, that is, the areas where the ECO doesn’t think that your wife has sole responsibility.

It seems a very perverse arguement that by giving permission for his son to leave the country he is taking responsibility and therefore the action of giving permission is seen by UKBA as reason to refuse the application. The little thing like coughing up some money has less influence.

I am sure a good Immigration barrester has an answer for that one.

[Tony M]

The UKBA can, and might, argue that because the father has given his consent to the child living in UK, then he is still making decisions, and therefore has some responsibility, regarding the child’s residence. You may not agree with that argument, but it might come up at the appeal.

You say that you are not sure what I mean about responsibility. This will have been shown in the refusal notice, that is, the areas where the ECO doesn’t think that your wife has sole responsibility.

It seems a very perverse arguement that by giving permission for his son to leave the country he is taking responsibility and therefore the action of giving permission is seen by UKBA as reason to refuse the application. The little thing like coughing up some money has less influence.

I am sure a good Immigration barrester has an answer for that one.

I agree with you, and as I said, it may or may not be used, depending on how strong the reasons for refusal are. The ECO's reasons for doubting that your wife has sole responsibility will be given on the refusal notice. What does it say ?

[Kevin1908]

I agree with you, and as I said, it may or may not be used, depending on how strong the reasons for refusal are. The ECO's reasons for doubting that your wife has sole responsibility will be given on the refusal notice. What does it say ?

I was trying to paste the final paragraph of the refection but I can't paste a section of a pdf.

The upshot is the ECO believes that the boy's mother is not solely responsible. It would seem that chatting on Facebook once a week equates to providing accomodation, feed and clothe, provide education, medical care, leisure activities.

[Tony M]

I agree with you, and as I said, it may or may not be used, depending on how strong the reasons for refusal are. The ECO's reasons for doubting that your wife has sole responsibility will be given on the refusal notice. What does it say ?

I was trying to paste the final paragraph of the refection but I can't paste a section of a pdf.

The upshot is the ECO believes that the boy's mother is not solely responsible. It would seem that chatting on Facebook once a week equates to providing accomodation, feed and clothe, provide education, medical care, leisure activities.

Who chats on Facebook once a week ? The child and his father ? If that is so, and if that is included in the telephone transcript of the interview with the child, then you could indeed have a problem.

[Kevin1908]

Who chats on Facebook once a week ? The child and his father ? If that is so, and if that is included in the telephone transcript of the interview with the child, then you could indeed have a problem.

Yes child and father. But I am not sure how accurate that is. They both seem to contradict each other. According to the son I met his mum and she was living with me 8 years before I met her and I was still married to and living with my ex wife in the UK.

Are you telling me that because they chat on the phone/Facebook once a week then that overides the mother' rights. They can still chat one a week if he in in the UK.

To be honest if UKBA turn this down on that basis then I will withdraw my support and his bloody father can support him.

He wont of course so the son will be well screwed but I don't see why I should be funding this absent father who pays and contributes nothing but has all the control.

I am staggered, well maybe not, this is UKBA after all, that chatting on Facebook once a week trumps all other factors. Does the best intesest of the child not factor into this anywhere?

[bobrussell]

You are dealing with ECO's who feel it is appropriate to refuse a visit visa for someone who has conformed to the terms of two previous visit visas but stayed longer than she had stated on the application form. (Another thread on here).

If a visa is to be granted you have to see things as an ECO sees things. It is a settlement visa so you cannot give any 'wriggle' room as there is considerable pressure to reduce the numbers issued.

If the father is involved at all then an ECO can use this as a means of refusing a visa. Regular contact (in any way) with the other parent muddies the water on sole responsibility which the ECO is likely to jump on!

If the child is Thai the best interests of the child will be considered the Thai authorities responsibility not the UK's.

A transcript should be an exact record of what was said on the phone.

If his father is willing to support him if you withdraw yours then it will be even more difficult to show sole responsibility so not a line I would recommend taking with the Home Office.

Take the advice of the expert advisor and don't let frustration make a difficult situation worse.

[amykat]

Dear Kevin1908,

I followed your first thread when you had the initial problems, and now am reading this one. Something that seemed apparent to me then, and now, and that nobody seems to be mentioning, at least DIRECTLY, some have alluded to it, is that your wife is probably LYING about most things that have to do with her child and his father. The phone interview, most likely, brought those lies to light, and now they are saying the typical thing, to cover the lies, "the kid didn't understand, couldn't hear, was at school" whatever.

Ask yourself, WHY couldn't he understand? Does he not speak Thai fluently? Is he 4 years old? He has a PHONE, is used to speak on it, so WHY couldn't he understand/hear at school?

Most likely, what the kid said was mostly true, and mostly some lies that he got confused ...like how long you and your wife have known each other, been together, whatever it was, that he got the dates wrong!

I'm NOT saying that YOU are dishonest, but that YOU have been lied to and are believing it! Now you are pissed off beyond belief and mad at everyone trying to help you.

I think, you really need to understand the level of lies, that goes on in Thailand (as a normal course of life) ..but you normally need years of experience here, to truly understand and BELIEVE it, especially when it is screwing up your plans to such a large extent, as it is now.

If I was you, I would totally forget about bringing the child over. It isn't your fault! Your wife has maybe been lying to you for several reasons, like wanting more support from you (for her kid, no matter if she needs it or not, no matter if the Father gives her 10 baht a month, or 100,000 baht a month support, she would likely say, there is no support.) And she will try to get her kid (being a good mother, some don't care at all) to the UK for his/her future, as it would be better for both, and better for the real Father ..in most cases, he might be a source of support for him later.

You probably don't want to believe that your new wife could be dishonest. You need to know that honesty is not a typical Thai virtue and that telling stories, changing them around at a moments notice, confusing you all the time, blaming it on the language problems, culture problems, paper problems is very typical here. I remember you talking about your wife insisting on using her "friends" or people she knew for the visa, probably because they knew what she was lying about and promised to help her/cover for her. The "date" being wrong on the letter, is probably not a mistake, made by someone else, but an afterthought by your wife, to do the letter, or something along those lines.

I think you need to start looking at the whole stiuation, as everything you have ever been told, may not be true, and start there, with the source, things might start to make better sense to you and save you a lot of pain.

[Tony M]

Who chats on Facebook once a week ? The child and his father ? If that is so, and if that is included in the telephone transcript of the interview with the child, then you could indeed have a problem.

Yes child and father. But I am not sure how accurate that is. They both seem to contradict each other. According to the son I met his mum and she was living with me 8 years before I met her and I was still married to and living with my ex wife in the UK.

Are you telling me that because they chat on the phone/Facebook once a week then that overides the mother' rights. They can still chat one a week if he in in the UK.

To be honest if UKBA turn this down on that basis then I will withdraw my support and his bloody father can support him.

He wont of course so the son will be well screwed but I don't see why I should be funding this absent father who pays and contributes nothing but has all the control.

I am staggered, well maybe not, this is UKBA after all, that chatting on Facebook once a week trumps all other factors. Does the best intesest of the child not factor into this anywhere?

You are quite right to mention the best interests of the child, and this is where UKBA lose many of their appeals. They don't consider ( properly) the best interests of the child despite the fact that they have instructions to do so, and an Immigration Judge may look closely at this point. Hopefully your appeal lawyers will pick up on any areas where it is obvious that the ECO didn't even consider it, or didn't consider it as thoroughly as he should have.

[beano2274]

am not going to read your previous post, but ask a question, your wife is in the UK now, and since she has been there who has taken care of the child, why did she not apply to take him with her at the same time as her application. How often does she speak to her son, one a week on facebook like the father?

Listen to the advice, but don"t kick up a fuss if you lose.

[Tony K]

Kevin 1908 it is the responsibility of your legal representative to prepare the case including witness statements from you, your wife and anyone else they consider to be necessary then to prepare a skeleton argument to present to the judge prior to the hearing. The rep will tell you what documents they need to boost your case. If they have not done so then ask them what they want. Thailand issues sole custody documentation only. Custody is not the same as responsibility. A sole custody document is not sufficient to meet the requirements of the immigration rules.

Edited August 3, 2013 by Tony K

[Jay Sata]

I appreciate you may be paying the bills but unless you have adopted the kid ( a nightmare and long drawn out procedure) it's down to the interviews in Thailand in Thai over the phone with the child.

I suspect the kid still speaks to his father and has contact with him on the phone/Internet.

Mothers often want to severe ties with the father to put the relationship behind them.

I disagree and feel children should always maintain contact with both parents.

I'm of the opinion they throw loaded questions at the kid/spouse/partner and tick boxes.

Appeals cost money.

Does the applicant have the right to attend the hearing? That will of course mean that he will have to travel to the UK

Your wife/partner is the applicant not the child.

Yet again you talk absolute nonsense. And never once have you acknowledged your errors, or apologised for the incorrect posts you make. The child is the applicant, because the child is applying for the visa.

You are in pedant mode. The child may well be the applicant but he has to be supported /sponsored by the parent which in this case is the mother.

A child does not have the ability or skill to make such an application. However the child is also more likely to tell the truth as is the case here.

Reading all the info here I believe this child still has regular and frequent contact with his father and I also believe the mother has contact with her ex spouse.

If I was making the decision I would refuse the application.