Chiang Mai-bound train derails in tunnel

[bangkokstick]

I dislike flying and have always taken the train if feasible. These derailments are getting to be a little too common in Thailand. It's going to be back to flying, I guess.

Driving is too dangerous, buses are pretty dangerous and now trains are dangerous as well.

Yes, I agree, this is why i stay home !

[nong38]

Infrastructure is old and needs bringing into the present, it costs money. The trains look like they have been around a long time, been flogged to death(!), they need more than the floor mopping en route! Maintenaince seems of a poor standard for stock and the permanent way, I believe there is not a major overhaul facility for stock in Thailand and they have to be sent abroad to be "fixed".

The transport in Thailand is "cheap" ( take that as you will ) and you get what you pay for, Thai transport problems are known in other countries as not being, I will be kind, as good as they could be. Its time for the Government to put its hand s in its pocket and pay whatever it takes to up grade the transport sector, we know that not all the allocation will be spent where it should be but if they dont do something soon those fat foreign tourists will heading somewhere else and the tourist industry will take a major hit as well.

They dont need a HS route, they need a safe route at a 160kph, that would be a major step forward that would be appreciated by all, until that day look out for the wonky track esp at night.

[fxe1200]

Being #6 in the world for road accidents is not enough. Thailand clearly also wants to be on the World's Most Dangerous Trains list.

The website http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/world-road-traffic-accidents-report puts Thailand on No. 6 with a death rate of 42,94 per 100.000, which means the death toll per annum is roughly above 29.000. These numbers differ from the WHO report (http://gamapserver.who.int/gho/interactive_charts/road_safety/road_traffic_deaths2/atlas.html) which puts Thailand in No. 2 (forget Niue, Population 1.400, just one accident spoiled their statistics) with a death rate of 38,1 per 100.000, which adds up to about 26.300 per annum.

the Transport Statistics Sub-Division puts the numbers for 2010 at 11,9 or 8.093 fatalities. People dying in a hospital or home of their injuries in the aftermath of an accident during the first 30 days, are not included in the Thai statistics.

Which numbers are right?

[jojodontyouknow]

Wonder what the boss of the SRT will say this time and will it include the stock phrase about a schedule of maintenance and up-grading ?

And something about a hub somewhere too

[davejones]

It's called Adventure Travel.

[impulse]

Something of a dilemma here.

I look at what they charge for ticket prices and I have a hard time figuring out how they can afford to maintain the tracks and equipment.

If they jack up the ticket prices, it's a hardship on the many folks scraping by on 300 baht a day, who depend on the trains to get around. Even worse, it would push them onto the buses, and they're scarier than a worn out train track.

If they leave the ticket prices for Thais the same and jack up the prices for tourists, the "double pricing" rants begin.

If we want Developed World safety standards, we need to be prepared to pay Developed World prices. Or we can enjoy the cheap transport and take the 0.00001% chance of getting hurt on any given trip. (I may have left out a few zeroes) The locals seem to have voted with their feet for the cheap transport.

Edited August 4, 2013 by impulse

[slipperylobster]

Isn't this 2 derailments on the same line in 2 weeks?

Guess so. Reassuring isn't it.

The "hub" of derailed train accidents.

[theblether]

Being #6 in the world for road accidents is not enough. Thailand clearly also wants to be on the World's Most Dangerous Trains list.

The website http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/world-road-traffic-accidents-report puts Thailand on No. 6 with a death rate of 42,94 per 100.000, which means the death toll per annum is roughly above 29.000. These numbers differ from the WHO report (http://gamapserver.who.int/gho/interactive_charts/road_safety/road_traffic_deaths2/atlas.html) which puts Thailand in No. 2 (forget Niue, Population 1.400, just one accident spoiled their statistics) with a death rate of 38,1 per 100.000, which adds up to about 26.300 per annum.

the Transport Statistics Sub-Division puts the numbers for 2010 at 11,9 or 8.093 fatalities. People dying in a hospital or home of their injuries in the aftermath of an accident during the first 30 days, are not included in the Thai statistics.

Which numbers are right?

Certainly not the Thai statistics, the fact that hospital deaths are not included in itself shows that the stats are unreliable.

The level of motorcycle usage as compared to Western countries would go a long way to explaining the high death toll. It would be handy if Thailand actually introduced a genuine driving test, that would be a start.

Anyway, train stats should be more reliable, merely because train crashes are more newsworthy and rarer. What's the stats for that?

[theblether]

Something of a dilemma here.

I look at what they charge for ticket prices and I have a hard time figuring out how they can afford to maintain the tracks and equipment.

If they jack up the ticket prices, it's a hardship on the many folks scraping by on 300 baht a day, who depend on the trains to get around. Even worse, it would push them onto the buses, and they're scarier than a worn out train track.

If they leave the ticket prices for Thais the same and jack up the prices for tourists, the "double pricing" rants begin.

If we want Developed World safety standards, we need to be prepared to pay Developed World prices. Or we can enjoy the cheap transport and take the 0.00001% chance of getting hurt on any given trip. (I may have left out a few zeroes) The locals seem to have voted with their feet for the cheap transport.

Most governments look at the train structure as being a strategic asset, as such they are prepared to invest in and subsidize the infrastructure. It's logical for Thailand to invest in the rail structure around BKK first, as it's in danger of going into perma grid lock.

Although I reckon that Isaan should be double tracked relatively urgently, more so than CM, Greater BKK has to be the priority.

It then becomes a matter of simple accountancy, is the country richer due to subsidizing rail transport and preventing grid lock, or not? In this case I say yes.

[impulse]

Most governments look at the train structure as being a strategic asset, as such they are prepared to invest in and subsidize the infrastructure. It's logical for Thailand to invest in the rail structure around BKK first, as it's in danger of going into perma grid lock.

Although I reckon that Isaan should be double tracked relatively urgently, more so than CM, Greater BKK has to be the priority.

It then becomes a matter of simple accountancy, is the country richer due to subsidizing rail transport and preventing grid lock, or not? In this case I say yes.

I agree 100%, and think they should subsidize the MRT and BTS for Thai passengers too.

Look at all the stakeholders that benefit if people take mass transit:

1) The passengers

2) The drivers who then don't have to fight for road space with those passengers

3) The employers who can choose employees from a much wider area without having to pay them enough to buy a car

4) The shopping malls

5) The condos, apartments and hotels that benefit from passenger traffic.

Yet, for some reason, the lines are supported by ticket prices- passengers. Beneficiaries 2-5 get a free ride, and they're the ones that can afford to pay.

[billd766]

Isn't this 2 derailments on the same line in 2 weeks? I think the line needs to be closed indefinitely for public safety until a full and thorough inspection of the tracks have been completed. Forget about the tourist money for a moment and put safety first. Strike 3 might be disastrous.

How dare you blaspheme and tell us to forget the money!!!

Tourists will always come and if we don't always tell the truth they will still keep coming and bringing their money.

If they cause too much trouble by complaining we will just fine them all their money and deport them.

They money stays, the tourists go and there are another lot coming next week.

No problem.

Rail safety? As soon as we get our grubby hands on OUR share of the 2.2 TR baht we do a little bit and I will order my fourth Mercedes.

Edited August 4, 2013 by billd766

[GoldCoastFarang]

If there was any "LUCK" involved in this latest derailment it was that it happened in the tunnel, thus preventing rollovers of the carriages. I have travelled this route and on that trip we hit something which killed the lights and fans....the the train couldn't climb the hill so we coasted BACKWARDS down the hill to a railway station.All problems fixed in an hour then onward to Bangkok. "Amazing Thailand."

[phosphorescent]

With all the negativity, I think its important to include some good points too. The service on trains here, especially the sleeper carriages far surpasses anything in the west. The cost of tickets has remained very low. Two derailments within a short period of time is bad but there were no deaths which tells us that there are speed limits and they were being followed, so they were not out of control trains with crazed, drugged up, untrained, overworked drivers.

Could the infrastructure be better and safer? Absolutely! But even countries which are considered to have extremely high standards of rail safety suffer derailments and crashes as can be seen in this link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rail_accidents_(2010%E2%80%93present)

Sometimes 'shit just happens', it is preventable in most cases but it's not just a 'Thai thing', its a human thing.

And now you may commence raining your shitstorm down upon me for my lack of Thai bashing.

Edited August 4, 2013 by phosphorescent

[chooka]

With all the negativity, I think its important to include some good points too. The service on trains here, especially the sleeper carriages far surpasses anything in the west. The cost of tickets has remained very low. Two derailments within a short period of time is bad but there were no deaths which tells us that there are speed limits and they were being followed, so they were not out of control trains with crazed, drugged up, untrained, overworked drivers.

Could the infrastructure be better and safer? Absolutely! But even countries which are considered to have extremely high standards of rail safety suffer derailments and crashes as can be seen in this link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rail_accidents_(2010%E2%80%93present)

Sometimes 'shit just happens', it is preventable in most cases but it's not just a 'Thai thing', its a human thing.

And now you may commence raining your shitstorm down upon me for my lack of Thai bashing.

"Sometimes 'shit just happens"

That is true, but it would be nice if they could have time to wipe their rear end before the next dump came along. It's looking more like a sewage treatment plant than a toilet bowl.

[CIHUAHUA]

And The Thai government wants more "high-end" tourists. Who needs this lack of safety , not even the "low-end" tourists.

[ginjag]

Something of a dilemma here.

I look at what they charge for ticket prices and I have a hard time figuring out how they can afford to maintain the tracks and equipment.

If they jack up the ticket prices, it's a hardship on the many folks scraping by on 300 baht a day, who depend on the trains to get around. Even worse, it would push them onto the buses, and they're scarier than a worn out train track.

If they leave the ticket prices for Thais the same and jack up the prices for tourists, the "double pricing" rants begin.

If we want Developed World safety standards, we need to be prepared to pay Developed World prices. Or we can enjoy the cheap transport and take the 0.00001% chance of getting hurt on any given trip. (I may have left out a few zeroes) The locals seem to have voted with their feet for the cheap transport.

I am trying to figure out who uses the rail network.

People on 300 bht a day very rare use the rail, and most in rural areas have Near NEVER been on a train. outside of BKK apart from major city links rail is of no use as it stands.

Vast amount of rural areas are not served. It is town and inter city buses that do the business.

If you look at Udon-BKK a bus every half hour or more if you change at some places more options.

So Nong Khai to BKK how many trains in a day ???? and not normally local people travel--they do not have the time OR money anyway.

Uni students MAY use the train --but go to your local city bus stations your sure to find out.

[xen]

If they are serious about a high speed train then the route will not be able to go by the mountainous area around where these derailments are occurring. But then certain people need time to buy up all the land the new high speed train corridor (an almost straight line following the highway between BKK and CMX) so they can sell back to the government at huge profit . Too hard to plan further than a few years at most , too much foresight and planning is required and why bother when nobody important can profit personally.

.

Edited August 4, 2013 by xen

[geejayess]

Never an interview with the tourists about the experience, ramifications, and Thai handling of the situation. Did the trainman flee?

Yes,he ran to Den Chai taking half the train with him.

[SOTIRIOS]

..after the floods, NOTHING was done to verify the integrity of the train tracks.....nor for the Skytrain for that matter...

(..I wonder if the airport express was ever repaired with reports of loose track hitting the undercarriage...)

[lomatopo]

The website http://www.worldlife...ccidents-report puts Thailand on No. 6 with a death rate of 42,94 per 100.000, which means the death toll per annum is roughly above 29.000.

Suspect that's per 100,000 train pax rather than per 100,000 of the entire population of Thailand so your maths are off.

Of course you rarely hear about the other derailments, like those involving industrial chemicals and oil/petroleum.

Just earlier this month, on 1 July, a train fell off its track near a train depot in Bangkok. Fortunately, no one was hurt as the train had already dropped off all passengers before the accident happened. The engineers said a flawed mechanism at the train junction caused the train to derail.

9 days later, another train carrying 800,000 litre of crude oil derailed as it was leaving an oil storage which belongs to the state-owned PTT Company in Klong Toey district of Bangkok. Since the train was an industrial vehicle, no passenger was injured by the accident.

There are conflicting reports about the the cause of the derailment. While the train engineers insisted that the soil around the rail track that was soaked with rain after a night of thunderstorm caused the accident, the national rail authority disputed that report and launched a separate investigation.

A passenger train also derailed on 5 April near Vibhavadi Road in northern suburb of Bangkok. 4 passengers were injured by the crash, including a pregnant woman. Initial investigation points to the rail track that becomes overheated and expanded by summer weather.

[nong38]

Welcome to Thailand's Amazing amusement park where you ride the death defying big dippers of SRT or drive a dodgem at breath taking speeds along the smoothest surfaces in the world, leap over motorcycles, run red lights, tailgate in safety whilst on the phone, the worlds first hands free vehicles are at your disposal, no previous experience neccessary, enjoy!

No matter what we say you know nothing will change sadly, we live in hope.

[impulse]

I am trying to figure out who uses the rail network.

People on 300 bht a day very rare use the rail, and most in rural areas have Near NEVER been on a train. outside of BKK apart from major city links rail is of no use as it stands.

Vast amount of rural areas are not served. It is town and inter city buses that do the business.

If you look at Udon-BKK a bus every half hour or more if you change at some places more options.

So Nong Khai to BKK how many trains in a day ???? and not normally local people travel--they do not have the time OR money anyway.

Uni students MAY use the train --but go to your local city bus stations your sure to find out.

That is a good question. A lot of the folks I see camped out at Hua Lamphong every time I go there use burlap sacks for luggage. (okay, not burlap any more, but that woven poly that's taken burlap's place)

The ones I envision are those who have left the farm or village to make a living in BKK, going home to be with the family on the holidays. Scroogy as I am, I'd hate to see them priced out of the train ride home to see the family once or twice a year. I think their chances of surviving the visit are better on a dodgy train than most of the buses.

[ginjag]

I am trying to figure out who uses the rail network.

People on 300 bht a day very rare use the rail, and most in rural areas have Near NEVER been on a train. outside of BKK apart from major city links rail is of no use as it stands.

Vast amount of rural areas are not served. It is town and inter city buses that do the business.

If you look at Udon-BKK a bus every half hour or more if you change at some places more options.

So Nong Khai to BKK how many trains in a day ???? and not normally local people travel--they do not have the time OR money anyway.

Uni students MAY use the train --but go to your local city bus stations your sure to find out.

That is a good question. A lot of the folks I see camped out at Hua Lamphong every time I go there use burlap sacks for luggage. (okay, not burlap any more, but that woven poly that's taken burlap's place)

The ones I envision are those who have left the farm or village to make a living in BKK, going home to be with the family on the holidays. Scroogy as I am, I'd hate to see them priced out of the train ride home to see the family once or twice a year. I think their chances of surviving the visit are better on a dodgy train than most of the buses.

On price, I missed out a little only Udon Thani-Morchit--vip Shan Tour is about 575 bht recline seat- video on seat back similar to plane. 8 hours.

But on the train equiv seat etc--not have -- but the price for 11 hour for vip ??? maybe that is why the bus wins.

In the UK. I booked later this year return Kings cross-Doncaster RETURN--25 pound and 1 hour 40 mins time. BUS same price 5 hours. so in U.K. train wins.

[khunken]

Unfortunately repairing & upgrading the rail network seems to be mainly tied up in the B2.2tn loan approval process. If they had made it a reasonable sum by leaving out the stupid high-speed train idea, the approval would be virtually immediate and the SRT could get on with the job.

I don't blame the SRT because they have been starved of funds by all governments and forced to survive on a loss-making basis with huge debts accumulated. Belatedly, parts of the debt are repaid by the government but there is never (or very rarely) any budget for anything other than repairs.

I agree with the poster that said the fares should be increased to at least cover costs with various levels of comfort charged appropriately. It has become urgent but not apparently compared with the 'more urgent' amnesty.

[harrry]

Thailand does not need a high speed train network,

It needs a good well constructed rail suitible for freight traffic track. It would be better if double tracked but single is acceptible if sufficient passing options are provided. It would be best if this was standard guage to enable high freight loadings and international tranport but this option is more expensive. If a nuclear power station is built this could support a fully electrified unit. (I bet that will get a few comments.)

[ginjag]

Thailand does not need a high speed train network,

It needs a good well constructed rail suitible for freight traffic track. It would be better if double tracked but single is acceptible if sufficient passing options are provided. It would be best if this was standard guage to enable high freight loadings and international tranport but this option is more expensive. If a nuclear power station is built this could support a fully electrified unit. (I bet that will get a few comments.)

Get your Nuclear P/S and the rail could transport the Toxic waste to Thailands ( SAFE DUMPS )

[rafish]

Fortunately, it was not the future "Bullet Train." Thailand cannot maintain its railways as it stands now. Say no to the Bullet Train.

[Estrada]

Will this ever stop happening???

Will it ever stop happening? It has been going on in Thailand for at least the last 30 years since I can recall. Similarly the number of Thai drivers putting their cars and lorries into the ditch either side of a straight road never seems to diminish either.

[Ace of Pop]

Fortunately, it was not the future "Bullet Train." Thailand cannot maintain its railways as it stands now. Say no to the Bullet Train.

And they talk about Atomic Power Stations, they cant run Bus Stations.

[chooka]

The website http://www.worldlife...ccidents-report puts Thailand on No. 6 with a death rate of 42,94 per 100.000, which means the death toll per annum is roughly above 29.000.

Suspect that's per 100,000 train pax rather than per 100,000 of the entire population of Thailand so your maths are off.

Of course you rarely hear about the other derailments, like those involving industrial chemicals and oil/petroleum.

Just earlier this month, on 1 July, a train fell off its track near a train depot in Bangkok. Fortunately, no one was hurt as the train had already dropped off all passengers before the accident happened. The engineers said a flawed mechanism at the train junction caused the train to derail.

9 days later, another train carrying 800,000 litre of crude oil derailed as it was leaving an oil storage which belongs to the state-owned PTT Company in Klong Toey district of Bangkok. Since the train was an industrial vehicle, no passenger was injured by the accident.

There are conflicting reports about the the cause of the derailment. While the train engineers insisted that the soil around the rail track that was soaked with rain after a night of thunderstorm caused the accident, the national rail authority disputed that report and launched a separate investigation.

A passenger train also derailed on 5 April near Vibhavadi Road in northern suburb of Bangkok. 4 passengers were injured by the crash, including a pregnant woman. Initial investigation points to the rail track that becomes overheated and expanded by summer weather.

You forgot the one on the 17th july where 23 tourists were injured.