Aussies a drain on Phuket hospitals

[Sirius1935]

Wow! 58,500 seems like a lot for one day and night in a hospital. That's nearly $2,000 US.

N47HAN

No, it was a hernia and I don't think I was overcharged. As I said earlier it would have cost me $5,000 back home in Australia. I was quoted roughly 43,000 Baht, so it was a little more than I was expecting. However the results were exceptionally good. Thai surgeons are worth every penny. And a lot more.

[Sailingbum1]

Simple solution - no insurance no Visa, like Europe

Not so simple.

What about the expats over 65 or 70 years of age, and those expats with a pre-existing condition? No insurance for them, means no visa for them, means no money into the Thai economy from them.

An idea might be that those without insurance, pay an extra levy attached to their visa. This levy, or medical fee, goes to the Thai Government to ensure older uninsured expats receive medical care, should they need it.

The system you're describing is called insurance. And because private insurance companies don't want this risk, in other words, it will cost them more than it bring them, the Thai government should bear this risk, in other words it will cost them more than it brings them.

I'm sorry, but if you want to stay here as a foreigner you have to be self reliant, and not rely on the Thai government. Can't do that, go home and let your own government take care of you.

Commercial Travel insurance is always available and due to sheer numbers of visitors. The government would also benefit from a paid inclusion program for national care for ex-pats . How many actually ever go to a hospital . But, just because you are 65 or older does not give you the right to reach in others wallets while you destroy what's left of your liver at the local pub

Many major countries have no socialized insurance but rely on a complicated, fraud plagued system to poorly care for those in dire financial and medical straits. aka....

<off topic portion removed>

Ha Ha Ha. Sorry I digress. sniff

I think all countries with a socialized medicine system should guaranty payment for travelers from their country and if serious enough and feasable, return that citizen to their home country for treatment.

Travelers without a National program should have proof of commercial travel insurance or be offered it or nationalized insurance upon entry for the duration of their stay for a reasonable fee, The national t funds going directly to the social medical system

Un -Nationalized EX-pats should make a fair contribution based on risk factors to the social medical system and be issued an ID card or buy commercial insurance. . Without!! the microchip implant

Edited August 10, 2013 by LivinginKata
no need for discussion on US matters

[connda]

Simple solution - no insurance no Visa, like Europe

Not so simple.

What about the expats over 65 or 70 years of age, and those expats with a pre-existing condition? No insurance for them, means no visa for them, means no money into the Thai economy from them.

An idea might be that those without insurance, pay an extra levy attached to their visa. This levy, or medical fee, goes to the Thai Government to ensure older uninsured expats receive medical care, should they need it.

Why don't they just offer foreign expats affordable insurance with maybe a 70/30 deducible scheme that can be used at government hospitals. It would be a win-win situation.

[connda]

When i got Pneumonia recently,i went to three hospitals to make deals with them, McCormick in Chiang mai gave me the best quote so i took it, 5days 17000B, including medication and xrays,, the warning bells rang, get insurance!!

17000 baht (about $550) would have been $17000 in the US. $550 is a one month insurance premium on a low-end health care plan in the US. Holy crap man, your five days in the hospital were dirt cheap. Unless you get pneumonia every month, you're better off establishing a health savings plan for yourself here in Thailand and pay your hospital bills by yourself. By the way, if you would have gone to a government hospital, you could have got a private room and care for your 5 day stay for about 8K baht. Insurance companies only cover private hospitals, and private hospitals are 2 to 4 times more expensive than their government equivalents.

[Cantankerous]

Simple solution - no insurance no Visa, like Europe

Concur with this, if u can't afford insurance you shouldn't be here or anywhere else for that matter. Better to head back home & be a burden on your parent country, should anything happen. This is not a troll post & I make no apology if I have offended anyone. Insurance should be one of the first considerations prior to a move or holiday overseas, unfortunately too many think whith the small head rather than the large one...

We all know that ain't going to happen. When has Thailand ever implemented a scheme without involving widespread corruption, loopholes and scams?

But to take the other side of your argument, in America, medical expenses for insured people cost more than the same medical expenses in Thailand without any insurance. I'm quite happy for my family to travel to Thailand without insurance because I both have the money to pay for any expenses and secondly because I know it's much cheaper than having the same thing covered under insurance in Western countries.

Finally, I take any comments from the Thai hospital with a grain of salt. Medical insurance providers routinely negotiate lower prices with hospitals over treatment, especially when it comes to the large bills. You can bet that the amount that the hospitals say they are losing is in fact somewhat lower than the number they said. And so a few customers don't pay, well all businesses know what that's like. Get over it.

I have a family policy here, covers everything including motorcycles to diving, but always pay minor hospital stays/treatments cash (keep the hefty premium down). Good for you, if you have the means to front any bill that comes your way, that's great. But what happens when someone has a serious accident & requires ICU care, major surgery, repatriation? The cost of this would bankrupt most, including me, if they had to pay for it out of pocket.

The point is people coming here uninsured, or without sufficient funds to cover treatment & expecting the hospital/local authority to foot the bill. Brass neck, the lot of them.

Hospitals are a business & agreed they levy higher charges to those insured or paying cash, which in part offsets the treatment of those guests of Thailand who do not see it as their own responsibility to pay for themselves. There is no Medicare/Medicaid system over here to offset the rest of the cost to the hospital, drop in profits, spiral of increasing charges continues.

If people can afford to holiday/live here, then they should ensure they can afford any bills they incur, accidents/illnesses occur everywhere.

[barmatt]

I thought their policy was "no money no fix" ?

[sandhurstmolonski]

Surely on the Retiree Side , it could be Incorporated as a Yearly Fee as Manditory ? ..It wouldn't be that Much

Plus , with the 800 k sitting in a Bank Account , seems to Imply that the Retiree would be Living like a Tourist ??

On the Young Tourist Side , or general Tourist ..just incorporate the fee in the Airline Ticket .

Now , the Scammers would be out in force , so the Thai Government would have to Guarantee this in some way .

Certainly , this would not be too difficult to Implement .

[sandhurstmolonski]

Simple solution - no insurance no Visa, like Europe

Concur with this, if u can't afford insurance you shouldn't be here or anywhere else for that matter. Better to head back home & be a burden on your parent country, should anything happen. This is not a troll post & I make no apology if I have offended anyone. Insurance should be one of the first considerations prior to a move or holiday overseas, unfortunately too many think whith the small head rather than the large one...

We all know that ain't going to happen. When has Thailand ever implemented a scheme without involving widespread corruption, loopholes and scams?

But to take the other side of your argument, in America, medical expenses for insured people cost more than the same medical expenses in Thailand without any insurance. I'm quite happy for my family to travel to Thailand without insurance because I both have the money to pay for any expenses and secondly because I know it's much cheaper than having the same thing covered under insurance in Western countries.

Finally, I take any comments from the Thai hospital with a grain of salt. Medical insurance providers routinely negotiate lower prices with hospitals over treatment, especially when it comes to the large bills. You can bet that the amount that the hospitals say they are losing is in fact somewhat lower than the number they said. And so a few customers don't pay, well all businesses know what that's like. Get over it.

I have a family policy here, covers everything including motorcycles to diving, but always pay minor hospital stays/treatments cash (keep the hefty premium down). Good for you, if you have the means to front any bill that comes your way, that's great. But what happens when someone has a serious accident & requires ICU care, major surgery, repatriation? The cost of this would bankrupt most, including me, if they had to pay for it out of pocket.

The point is people coming here uninsured, or without sufficient funds to cover treatment & expecting the hospital/local authority to foot the bill. Brass neck, the lot of them.

Hospitals are a business & agreed they levy higher charges to those insured or paying cash, which in part offsets the treatment of those guests of Thailand who do not see it as their own responsibility to pay for themselves. There is no Medicare/Medicaid system over here to offset the rest of the cost to the hospital, drop in profits, spiral of increasing charges continues.

If people can afford to holiday/live here, then they should ensure they can afford any bills they incur, accidents/illnesses occur everywhere.

I think its Very Wise and makes Sense to Hold the Insurance you Mention ... Just good Common sense in my View .

Medical expenses , could potentially be any Figure you like to Imagine .

It also makes sense keeping the Preium down by paying as you go for the more " Minor " stuff . I just hope that for all here , no one ever needs

and its only the Insuance Premium one has to Worry about . Thats the best outcome anyone can hope for .

[andreandre]

Simple solution - no insurance no Visa, like Europe

Not so simple.

What about the expats over 65 or 70 years of age, and those expats with a pre-existing condition? No insurance for them, means no visa for them, means no money into the Thai economy from them.

An idea might be that those without insurance, pay an extra levy attached to their visa. This levy, or medical fee, goes to the Thai Government to ensure older uninsured expats receive medical care, should they need it.

Why don't they just offer foreign expats affordable insurance with maybe a 70/30 deducible scheme that can be used at government hospitals. It would be a win-win situation.

Yep...something along those lines would be ideal and doable ..i don't want a freebie hospital, just an affordable insurance in case you need to visit a hospital.

[99jaapie]

I would say NamKangMan has possibly the best solution.

The 800 k for retirement visa is just not there - I mean for an extra fee the boys in brown will "arrange" the funds for you which are as someone else said immediately drained after the application.

I am involved in the medical insurance business and do know the difficulties for people over 65 to obtain insurance - certainly after 70, although obtainable, beyond most peoples' budget.

A government"medical aid" system could be instituted for an additional fee on the visa allowing the individual to go to government hospitals for treatment. This could be compulsory for anyone who cannot prove that they have private cover when going for their 90 day stamp.....

Better than nothing except moans and groans!

[harrry]

Simple solution - no insurance no Visa, like Europe

Not so simple.

What about the expats over 65 or 70 years of age, and those expats with a pre-existing condition? No insurance for them, means no visa for them, means no money into the Thai economy from them.

An idea might be that those without insurance, pay an extra levy attached to their visa. This levy, or medical fee, goes to the Thai Government to ensure older uninsured expats receive medical care, should they need it.

Why don't they just offer foreign expats affordable insurance with maybe a 70/30 deducible scheme that can be used at government hospitals. It would be a win-win situation.

Yep...something along those lines would be ideal and doable ..i don't want a freebie hospital, just an affordable insurance in case you need to visit a hospital.

I would be more than prepared to pay the amount paid under the social security scheme. Remember this includes private hospital treatment.

[stevenl]

Not so simple.

What about the expats over 65 or 70 years of age, and those expats with a pre-existing condition? No insurance for them, means no visa for them, means no money into the Thai economy from them.

An idea might be that those without insurance, pay an extra levy attached to their visa. This levy, or medical fee, goes to the Thai Government to ensure older uninsured expats receive medical care, should they need it.

Why don't they just offer foreign expats affordable insurance with maybe a 70/30 deducible scheme that can be used at government hospitals. It would be a win-win situation.

Yep...something along those lines would be ideal and doable ..i don't want a freebie hospital, just an affordable insurance in case you need to visit a hospital.

I would be more than prepared to pay the amount paid under the social security scheme. Remember this includes private hospital treatment.

A loss making system for workers, subsidized by the Thai government, but you're willing to pay the same amount? You're over 60 as well? So basically you want free healthcare.

[harrry]

Why don't they just offer foreign expats affordable insurance with maybe a 70/30 deducible scheme that can be used at government hospitals. It would be a win-win situation.

Yep...something along those lines would be ideal and doable ..i don't want a freebie hospital, just an affordable insurance in case you need to visit a hospital.

I would be more than prepared to pay the amount paid under the social security scheme. Remember this includes private hospital treatment.

A loss making system for workers, subsidized by the Thai government, but you're willing to pay the same amount? You're over 60 as well? So basically you want free healthcare.

It is fully self supporting'

[Ron19]

I Guess thats why they want 800K in a bank account for retirement visa, something happens to you without insurance, at least some costs are covered, i could be wrong...

That's a bit far fetched. Once the retirement visa is issued then the bank account can be drained immediately.

That's correct but has to be in a bank account when you apply for an extension in 12 months time.

[NamKangMan]

I Guess thats why they want 800K in a bank account for retirement visa, something happens to you without insurance, at least some costs are covered, i could be wrong...

That's a bit far fetched. Once the retirement visa is issued then the bank account can be drained immediately.

That's correct but has to be in a bank account when you apply for an extension in 12 months time.

The point being made is, someone has their 800,000 baht in the bank for their visa, then withdraws the money and p*ss it up the wall in 6 months, and then fall ill, or get injured.

They have no money left of the 800,000 baht that they had 6 months ago, so, they presnt at hospital and are unable to pay.

[Traveling Sailor]

I Guess thats why they want 800K in a bank account for retirement visa, something happens to you without insurance, at least some costs are covered, i could be wrong...

That's a bit far fetched. Once the retirement visa is issued then the bank account can be drained immediately.

Not only that but, if you can show 65,000 baht of income coming into Thailand every month, the 800,000 baht in the bank is not required.

[mrfill]

Well Oz and Brit people are really so unfit, so its not big a surprise is it. But it links up with another story about Tourists being charged health insurance at entry point! It will happen.

Pray enlighten us as to your age, nationality, gender & physical prowess? My guess would be under 30, male, nationality reserved (i'm not going to alienate a nation based on the inaugural post of a trolling newbie), & yet to encounter any of the ailments that befall humanity as they pass their prime...

Are they as unfit as a certain other large (300m) nation with 40%+ obesity ?

[glegolo]

Simple solution - no insurance no Visa, like Europe

Yes I agree. If this is the fact that aussies are a burdon... let them deposit money in beforehand.

They just make it so much more complicated for other expats living here.

Glegolo

[smotherb]

I guess Aussies are singled out in the article because it's from an Australian news source.

may be just as it says, because there are so many Aussies needing medical care and without insurance

[wolf5370]

Why attach a fee to Visas (thereby forcing people to apply for visa for short stays and all those costs and tourist depletion that comes along with such a rule)? Would it not make more sense to just raise the airport tax - Thailand is still fairly cheap - this would generate funds that could be put aside for such claims from hospitals - as it is a general tax, it matter not if people are insured or not and should only be publicised as a raise to cover the rising costs due to tourism. A dedicated pool could also be used for other uncovered costs such as deportation, overseas criminal checks, locating next of kin, translators, emergency bi-lingual lawyer, etc.

[wolf5370]

I Guess thats why they want 800K in a bank account for retirement visa, something happens to you without insurance, at least some costs are covered, i could be wrong...

That's a bit far fetched. Once the retirement visa is issued then the bank account can be drained immediately.

That's correct but has to be in a bank account when you apply for an extension in 12 months time.

The point being made is, someone has their 800,000 baht in the bank for their visa, then withdraws the money and p*ss it up the wall in 6 months, and then fall ill, or get injured.

They have no money left of the 800,000 baht that they had 6 months ago, so, they presnt at hospital and are unable to pay.

This is easy to fix - for lump sums require 50% to be locked (by the banks) and for monthly incomes, a set value to be paid into a locked account until it reaches that 400k value. A much easier law to apply and easy to maintain as the onus is on the Thai banks which already have locked bank accounts.

[nontabury]

Just read a post in another tread that tourist bring into the phuket economy, 200 BILLION baht per year, yet the Thais are complaining that farangs owe phuket hospitals approx 4 million baht. I think most businesses would be more than pleased to accept that sort of a loss.

[stevenl]

Just read a post in another tread that tourist bring into the phuket economy, 200 BILLION baht per year, yet the Thais are complaining that farangs owe phuket hospitals approx 4 million baht. I think most businesses would be more than pleased to accept that sort of a loss.

Why would the hospital that is losing the money care about the income that others have?

[nontabury]

Just read a post in another tread that tourist bring into the phuket economy, 200 BILLION baht per year, yet the Thais are complaining that farangs owe phuket hospitals approx 4 million baht. I think most businesses would be more than pleased to accept that sort of a loss.

Why would the hospital that is losing the money care about the income that others have?

Just trying to put the amounts into perspective. The Phuket economy obtains a great deal of profit

From tourist, much of this money goes into the states pocket, from where the hospitals then receive

their funding. 4million bht = approx £80,000, this is peanuts, how much do you think it cost the NHS to treat Thai nationals?.

[harrry]

Just trying to put the amounts into perspective. The Phuket economy obtains a great deal of profit

From tourist, much of this money goes into the states pocket, from where the hospitals then receive

their funding. 4million bht = approx £80,000, this is peanuts, how much do you think it cost the NHS to treat Thai nationals?.

just over 2000 baht per adult registered in the provence per year.

Edited August 13, 2013 by harrry

[nontabury]

Just trying to put the amounts into perspective. The Phuket economy obtains a great deal of profit

From tourist, much of this money goes into the states pocket, from where the hospitals then receive

their funding. 4million bht = approx £80,000, this is peanuts, how much do you think it cost the NHS to treat Thai nationals?.

just over 2000 baht per adult registered in the provence per year.

Population of Phuket 2010 census approx 525,000, minus for foreigners approx 115,000, plus for unregistered Thais,approx 60,000

= 460,000, this I'm guessing includes children.

So 4,000,000 divided by 460,000 =

[EyesWideOpen]

This story baffles me. Every accident I have had here, and every scheduled operation,

was paid in full up front, as demanded by the hospital. So I do not see where the problem is. I guess unexpected complications, or very long term stays could rack up a bill, but I am sure the hospital would be ahead of that. I think these stories are just a run up to the government mandating forced insurance...

Show up at a hospital with a broken leg and 100 baht in your pocket,

I think you will be shocked at what will happen... :-)

Edited August 13, 2013 by EyesWideOpen

[nontabury]

This story baffles me. Every accident I have had here, and every scheduled operation,

was paid in full up front, as demanded by the hospital. So I do not see where the problem is. I guess unexpected complications, or very long term stays could rack up a bill, but I am sure the hospital would be ahead of that. I think these stories are just a run up to the government mandating forced insurance...

Show up at a hospital with a broken leg and 100 baht in your pocket,

I think you will be shocked at what will happen... :-)

A couple of years ago, I stayed in a a Thai state hospital for two nights, I was never asked for any money until I was discharged, then of course I payed the full amount of the very reasonably charges.No problem.

The Thai wife of a Farang friend of mine gave birth in the same hospital, on discharge she was presented with a bill of 29,000 bht, this lead to her immediately going to the cashiers office and complaining that she might be the wife of a Farang , but she is still Thai,

They then reduced the bill so that she only payed for extra's, private room etc approx 6,000 baht.

[stevenl]

This story baffles me. Every accident I have had here, and every scheduled operation,

was paid in full up front, as demanded by the hospital. So I do not see where the problem is. I guess unexpected complications, or very long term stays could rack up a bill, but I am sure the hospital would be ahead of that. I think these stories are just a run up to the government mandating forced insurance...

Show up at a hospital with a broken leg and 100 baht in your pocket,

I think you will be shocked at what will happen... :-)

Depends on which hospital you show up. At government hospitals you will be looked after, at private hospitals they probably will check for payment options first.

[Sirius1935]

I spent 4 weeks in Robina Hospital on the Gold Coast Queensland, my travel insurance did not cover it. The medical bill including I.C.U. came to B1,000,000. They said I could pay it back over several years at 0% interest if I wanted, but I made B3.5 Million on the Thai Stock Exchange, whilst in I.C.U., thanks to my mobile phone internet trading program. In any case I keep B800,000+ for medical fees and unforeseen circumstances. Interesting enough, I discovered that BUPA and other medical insurance premiums cost B99,000 per year and which means that over the 20 years I have lived here I would have forked out up to B20 Million in premiums. However, although the coverage is B5 Million, it only covers a maximum of B1 Million in any one incident. Furthermore there is a limit on the amount that they will pay per cay for I.C.U. and normal bed, this meant that they would have paid only B82,000 out against the B99,000/year premium and a medical bill of B1 Million!

You are advised to keep an emergency fund, as you cannot rely on medical insurance to cover the full cost of treatment.

With regard to Australians, since many are covered by Australian Government Medicare, and hospital treatment in OZ is expensive, the Australian Government would save money if they were to cover their citizens medical treatment overseas.

Indeed, the coverage afforded by BUPA for the cost is very very bad, and I would suggest that it is more a scheme to boost business for private hospitals. People go to private hospitals for all sorts of small scrapes and bumps, and the hospital charges what I would consider to be a small fortune to put it right, but if you really need something very serious, the insurance isn't likely to cover it.

My sister worked as a temp for BUPA a few years ago. She told me that all she had to do was type letters to customers telling them that they were not entitled to the payment that they were claiming. She warned me off medical insurance and I have self insured ever since. Been here for 30 years and I am "Quids In". (Saved a fortune).