Could city farming be a solution for Bangkok’s urban poor?

[PoodMaiDai]

And no one is stopping the poor living in shoddy apartments in polluted areas (or in any area) from making gardens without the media (ironically, in English) telling them they should. But then again, the poor are usually poor for a reason.

Instead they dump their garbage everywhere, including the waterways for those who live along the water. Most of these people live in complete filth, and much of it is of their own doing.

Perhaps they should first teach the poor how to clean up after themselves and how to property dispose of waste. Otherwise, any gardens they build will turn into trash dumps. And this is not a Thailand problem, it's the same world wide.

For quite some time I have been reading your comments and I did like them. They were a bit cynical and did highlight issues here - they were valid, interesting and often gave me a smile.

However, you have lost a reader with your above post that shows you really do not care about the poor, innocent and those that are outside the system and not responsible for the sytem that you often criticise.

Poor for what reason? Because they are stupid? Lazy? Ignorant? DIRTY? Do not fight for your cause/battles? Try, they are poor because that is the maximum they have been able to achieve under limited resources in such a country...

You may not realize that garbage collection costs about 50-100 Baht per house - trivial for us, but for them???

Your handle here is pood mai dai (cannot speak) - maybe you should follow it!

The truth is sometimes painful, I understand that. But it doesn't change the facts.

We could debate the "why" of poverty for days on end, but the fact of the matter is, they live in poverty and due to whatever circumstances, 99.999% of them will never get out of it.

As I said, they are poor for a reason. Reasons here are obviously due to a lack of education, lack of skills, lack of drive to work, drug addiction, born into poverty, social status, and so on. With that comes the other harsh reality that most people living in poverty NEVER help themselves, for whatever reason. They rely on outside help. And like I said, they could be making gardens RIGHT NOW, but they are not. There is no shortage of places in Bangkok's vast concrete jungle to plant a little green and take care of it. But they don't do it. Why? You seem to have the answer, so I'm all ears. Why do the poorest of us never help ourselves? Again, we can debate that all day, but at the end of the line, it doesn't matter. They don't help themselves, and that's all there is to it. They require assistance to do anything outside of their day to day routine of basic survival. Which by the way, the first thing I would do should I ever find myself without food, is grow my own somewhere, or relocate to a place where I could if my current environment didn't permit it.

And for the record, I am cynical, and my name means can not speak, which we are not. We are writing. Typing to be exact.

[PoodMaiDai]

And no one is stopping the poor living in shoddy apartments in polluted areas (or in any area) from making gardens without the media (ironically, in English) telling them they should. But then again, the poor are usually poor for a reason.

Instead they dump their garbage everywhere, including the waterways for those who live along the water. Most of these people live in complete filth, and much of it is of their own doing.

Perhaps they should first teach the poor how to clean up after themselves and how to property dispose of waste. Otherwise, any gardens they build will turn into trash dumps. And this is not a Thailand problem, it's the same world wide.

its not just the poor throwing there rubbish anywhere,seen plenty others doing it,unfortunatly,when your financially forced to live in shit,doesnt really inspire one to go all environmental,that old chestnut education,or leading by example,just saying.....

You are absolutely correct. Littering is almost a hobby here. It will take them a while to get over that hump and educate themselves about it, just as all of us had to. I remember as a child in the US, it was common to littler where I was. Garbage was on the side of the roads, in the street, it was just how it was. Now.... forget it. The streets and roads are so clean you hardly even see a cigarette butt laying about. It took 20 years or so to get that way, but it did happen. Maybe in 20 or 30 years Thailand will do the same. Wishful thinking for a society that doesn't like change, but it is possible.

[ishouldknow]

And no one is stopping the poor living in shoddy apartments in polluted areas (or in any area) from making gardens without the media (ironically, in English) telling them they should. But then again, the poor are usually poor for a reason.

Instead they dump their garbage everywhere, including the waterways for those who live along the water. Most of these people live in complete filth, and much of it is of their own doing.

Perhaps they should first teach the poor how to clean up after themselves and how to property dispose of waste. Otherwise, any gardens they build will turn into trash dumps. And this is not a Thailand problem, it's the same world wide.

For quite some time I have been reading your comments and I did like them. They were a bit cynical and did highlight issues here - they were valid, interesting and often gave me a smile.

However, you have lost a reader with your above post that shows you really do not care about the poor, innocent and those that are outside the system and not responsible for the sytem that you often criticise.

Poor for what reason? Because they are stupid? Lazy? Ignorant? DIRTY? Do not fight for your cause/battles? Try, they are poor because that is the maximum they have been able to achieve under limited resources in such a country...

You may not realize that garbage collection costs about 50-100 Baht per house - trivial for us, but for them???

Your handle here is pood mai dai (cannot speak) - maybe you should follow it!

The truth is sometimes painful, I understand that. But it doesn't change the facts.

We could debate the "why" of poverty for days on end, but the fact of the matter is, they live in poverty and due to whatever circumstances, 99.999% of them will never get out of it.

As I said, they are poor for a reason. Reasons here are obviously due to a lack of education, lack of skills, lack of drive to work, drug addiction, born into poverty, social status, and so on. With that comes the other harsh reality that most people living in poverty NEVER help themselves, for whatever reason. They rely on outside help. And like I said, they could be making gardens RIGHT NOW, but they are not. There is no shortage of places in Bangkok's vast concrete jungle to plant a little green and take care of it. But they don't do it. Why? You seem to have the answer, so I'm all ears. Why do the poorest of us never help ourselves? Again, we can debate that all day, but at the end of the line, it doesn't matter. They don't help themselves, and that's all there is to it. They require assistance to do anything outside of their day to day routine of basic survival. Which by the way, the first thing I would do should I ever find myself without food, is grow my own somewhere, or relocate to a place where I could if my current environment didn't permit it.

And for the record, I am cynical, and my name means can not speak, which we are not. We are writing. Typing to be exact.

Keep it up - why don't they help themselves? Such blindness is disgusting. When you are sick do you help yourself? NO a doctor and tablet does! When you were born did you help yourself? NO, your parents did!

Because of intitial starting resources you were able to get such. Because of intial starting resources you were able to attend your first job's interview in clean clothes and a tie etc etc. They have ZERO intial resources and at present have ZERO too.

Becuase of intial resources, you are priviledged enough to afford the IT to post your comments, that are so far seperated from the same people that you are condeming for not being able to lift themselves out of the gutter! As the saying goes, "it takes money to make money"!

You live in a blind world where in one breath you blame the government and the corruption etc for their situation and then magically you expect in your other breath that these poor people should help themselves to overcome the hurdles and you shoot them down for not fighting your fake "socialist" battle.

Instead of Pood mai dai, try tah bod (blind)!

Edited August 11, 2013 by ishouldknow

[ishouldknow]

And no one is stopping the poor living in shoddy apartments in polluted areas (or in any area) from making gardens without the media (ironically, in English) telling them they should. But then again, the poor are usually poor for a reason.

Instead they dump their garbage everywhere, including the waterways for those who live along the water. Most of these people live in complete filth, and much of it is of their own doing.

Perhaps they should first teach the poor how to clean up after themselves and how to property dispose of waste. Otherwise, any gardens they build will turn into trash dumps. And this is not a Thailand problem, it's the same world wide.

its not just the poor throwing there rubbish anywhere,seen plenty others doing it,unfortunatly,when your financially forced to live in shit,doesnt really inspire one to go all environmental,that old chestnut education,or leading by example,just saying.....

You are absolutely correct. Littering is almost a hobby here. It will take them a while to get over that hump and educate themselves about it, just as all of us had to. I remember as a child in the US, it was common to littler where I was. Garbage was on the side of the roads, in the street, it was just how it was. Now.... forget it. The streets and roads are so clean you hardly even see a cigarette butt laying about. It took 20 years or so to get that way, but it did happen. Maybe in 20 or 30 years Thailand will do the same. Wishful thinking for a society that doesn't like change, but it is possible.

Is your above post based on reality or an ivory tower?

Thais generally are a lot cleaner than you think. Most roads and garbage cans are cleaned and most roads are reasonably clean. It could be a lot worse and could look like a number of Western cities (US included).

[oyster]

Another thing they try to blame us foreigners for.

wait until the Isaan farmer knows about this, and they will ask to expel all foreigners with good ideas from the land

Actually I'm in Isaan doing exactly that - they are delighted - years of rice farming mentality - ! crop - and wait, for the next, now they can see ways of making food and money all year.The older generation may resist change (usually do) but the next want any opportunity to move up - about the only positive thing they ever got from TV

[h90]

They are called allotments in the UK, people steal the produce, im sure they would here as well

On the rooftop?

With a helicopter?

[ginjag]

And no one is stopping the poor living in shoddy apartments in polluted areas (or in any area) from making gardens without the media (ironically, in English) telling them they should. But then again, the poor are usually poor for a reason.

Instead they dump their garbage everywhere, including the waterways for those who live along the water. Most of these people live in complete filth, and much of it is of their own doing.

Perhaps they should first teach the poor how to clean up after themselves and how to property dispose of waste. Otherwise, any gardens they build will turn into trash dumps. And this is not a Thailand problem, it's the same world wide.

its not just the poor throwing there rubbish anywhere,seen plenty others doing it,unfortunatly,when your financially forced to live in shit,doesnt really inspire one to go all environmental,that old chestnut education,or leading by example,just saying.....

You are absolutely correct. Littering is almost a hobby here. It will take them a while to get over that hump and educate themselves about it, just as all of us had to. I remember as a child in the US, it was common to littler where I was. Garbage was on the side of the roads, in the street, it was just how it was. Now.... forget it. The streets and roads are so clean you hardly even see a cigarette butt laying about. It took 20 years or so to get that way, but it did happen. Maybe in 20 or 30 years Thailand will do the same. Wishful thinking for a society that doesn't like change, but it is possible.

Is your above post based on reality or an ivory tower?

Thais generally are a lot cleaner than you think. Most roads and garbage cans are cleaned and most roads are reasonably clean. It could be a lot worse and could look like a number of Western cities (US included).

You said "most roads and rubbish bins are cleaned" I love it here but I am not blind, 32 years here and the place IN GENERAL is a TIP.

There are clean areas like anywhere, BUT Rural areas -oh my god, and the canals in Bkk pewk.

There is a vast amount of education and law that can be applied but isn't, without it no improvement. Thais in general are clean people, but the conditions they live in and their surroundings especially in rural areas are rough and not managed.

Problem--dumping is common place as long as it's away from their home.

[h90]

And no one is stopping the poor living in shoddy apartments in polluted areas (or in any area) from making gardens without the media (ironically, in English) telling them they should. But then again, the poor are usually poor for a reason.

Instead they dump their garbage everywhere, including the waterways for those who live along the water. Most of these people live in complete filth, and much of it is of their own doing.

Perhaps they should first teach the poor how to clean up after themselves and how to property dispose of waste. Otherwise, any gardens they build will turn into trash dumps. And this is not a Thailand problem, it's the same world wide.

For quite some time I have been reading your comments and I did like them. They were a bit cynical and did highlight issues here - they were valid, interesting and often gave me a smile.

However, you have lost a reader with your above post that shows you really do not care about the poor, innocent and those that are outside the system and not responsible for the sytem that you often criticise.

Poor for what reason? Because they are stupid? Lazy? Ignorant? DIRTY? Do not fight for your cause/battles? Try, they are poor because that is the maximum they have been able to achieve under limited resources in such a country...

You may not realize that garbage collection costs about 50-100 Baht per house - trivial for us, but for them???

Your handle here is pood mai dai (cannot speak) - maybe you should follow it!

The truth is sometimes painful, I understand that. But it doesn't change the facts.

We could debate the "why" of poverty for days on end, but the fact of the matter is, they live in poverty and due to whatever circumstances, 99.999% of them will never get out of it.

As I said, they are poor for a reason. Reasons here are obviously due to a lack of education, lack of skills, lack of drive to work, drug addiction, born into poverty, social status, and so on. With that comes the other harsh reality that most people living in poverty NEVER help themselves, for whatever reason. They rely on outside help. And like I said, they could be making gardens RIGHT NOW, but they are not. There is no shortage of places in Bangkok's vast concrete jungle to plant a little green and take care of it. But they don't do it. Why? You seem to have the answer, so I'm all ears. Why do the poorest of us never help ourselves? Again, we can debate that all day, but at the end of the line, it doesn't matter. They don't help themselves, and that's all there is to it. They require assistance to do anything outside of their day to day routine of basic survival. Which by the way, the first thing I would do should I ever find myself without food, is grow my own somewhere, or relocate to a place where I could if my current environment didn't permit it.

And for the record, I am cynical, and my name means can not speak, which we are not. We are writing. Typing to be exact.

Specially in Bangkok no one is poor without reason. Everyone is searching desperately for staff and can't find someone....

[PoodMaiDai]

Keep it up - why don't they help themselves? Such blindness is disgusting. When you are sick do you help yourself? NO a doctor and tablet does! When you were born did you help yourself? NO, your parents did!

Because of intitial starting resources you were able to get such. Because of intial starting resources you were able to attend your first job's interview in clean clothes and a tie etc etc. They have ZERO intial resources and at present have ZERO too.

Becuase of intial resources, you are priviledged enough to afford the IT to post your comments, that are so far seperated from the same people that you are condeming for not being able to lift themselves out of the gutter! As the saying goes, "it takes money to make money"!

You live in a blind world where in one breath you blame the government and the corruption etc for their situation and then magically you expect in your other breath that these poor people should help themselves to overcome the hurdles and you shoot them down for not fighting your fake "socialist" battle.

What does any of that have to do with someone not being able (or willing) to try to make a garden somewhere?

What "initial starting resources" does one need so he is capable of thinking, "Hey, I'm hungry but I can't afford food. Maybe I should try to grow something edible in one of these buckets or pots laying around here."

Sorry, but if you can't figure out something so basic on your own, natural selection is simply going to do what it does best, as it does all around the world. And who are you and I to debate the Universe?

[belg]

very nice

but janitors maybe using dangerous pesticides and where are the big airco's located ? on the roof tops of course...

so they might be poisening everybody inside, for their OWN PROFIT off course

did anyone give green light for this illegal setup ? I GUESS NOT

but this is thaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaailand

[impulse]

very nice

but janitors maybe using dangerous pesticides and where are the big airco's located ? on the roof tops of course...

so they might be poisening everybody inside, for their OWN PROFIT off course

did anyone give green light for this illegal setup ? I GUESS NOT

but this is thaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaailand

The only part of the big A/Cs located on the roof are the cooling towers. There is no air circulation between the cooling towers and the air inside the building.

[newermonkey]

My answer to the headline,:

No, no & NO.

[pigeonjake]

not rying to poo poo this idea

good idea on paper,

but,,,, we all know what the building regs are here and you want to put another few tons of soil on there,,lol, then when it rains it will retain the rain and that few tons becomes a whole lot more,,,

never work,

good idea but the roofs in western world are far better built then here, sorry

jake

[impulse]

I love the little rooftop enclaves I see from my high office window in downtown BKK.

Not very many, but they look like little Hobbit shires built on the roof of nearby buildings. Mostly a nice little bungalow and beautiful garden.

Not much in the way of raising food, but what a great way to use wasted roof space.

Like pigeonjake, I wonder what the effect is on the floors below them with weight and water runoff, especially if the roof leaks.

Edited August 12, 2013 by impulse

[hhiser]

Good to hear some positive news concerning Thai people.

[Thai at Heart]

You think they won't charge a fortune to farm this land in the sky?

If they hadn't built Bangkok using a plan from mad Max it wouldn't be necessary.

Edited August 12, 2013 by Thai at Heart

[PoodMaiDai]

I thought Bangkok was going to flood in 7 - 10 years anyway, no?