Thai gay activists silence is deafening about Russian persecution of gay people

[Jingthing]

Gay activists and human rights supporters in many countries of the world, not only western countries, are starting to get mobilized in protests at Russian embassies and consulates in their countries.

Thailand and Russia have good relations, easy visa policies, and large MASSES of Russian tourists here, including many Russian residents and business owners.

So Russia and Russians are VERY visible in Thailand.

It is not LEGAL for foreigners to engage in political protest in Thailand, and I assume that would even include Russian nationals protesting in front of their OWN embassy and consulates.

BUT, of course, it IS legal for Thai nationals to engage in peaceful protests in their own country.

So far, there doesn't seem to be any indication that the Thai gay activists, such as they are, will do anything to join their gay activist comrades internationally in taking a strong stand against the anti-gay laws, persecution, and NAZI violence against the gay people of Russia.

Do you consider this a weakness of the Thai people, this apparent lack of interest in anything outside their borders?

Do you think there is ANY chance some Thai activists WILL be motivated to join this INTERNATIONAL protest effort, just getting started, and sure to grow much wider and bigger over time?

An example in my opinion Thai gay activists should consider following:

http://www.lgbtqnation.com/2013/07/lgbt-activists-in-mexico-protest-outside-russian-embassy-over-anti-gay-laws/

Edited August 14, 2013 by Jingthing

[ToddWeston]

Leave the Thais alone we don't need to influence them or get them worked up about Russia, the most hostile actions or words seem to be coming for the USA and as far as I'm concerned it's the USA mentality to keep bashing Russia.

All the Thais I know care about family and friends and their neighbourhood and country, the few I've asked don't give a damn what happens in Russia (husband included) and I'm rapidly losing interest. Saying Thais should be following something is wrong, if they don't care they don't care. Calling them weak is a poor choice of words.

At the height of the Cold War the USA was on the rampage about the evils of communism, if you asked the average Canadian about Russia they would have replied....damn good hockey players. We don't all have a hate for Russia.

Let the few protests happen, keep international pressure up where needed and mobilised and let them sort this mess out themselves. A few Thais may take to a protest but it's their call not ours.

[Jingthing]

Of course it's their call.

Sent from my GT-S5360B using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Jingthing]

Leave the Thais alone?

That's not very friendly. Thais I meet tend to enjoy company.

I agree if they feel something about the persecution in Russia, they will feel it, get real, Thais aren't going to react to westerners telling them to feel something they don't. It wouldn't matter even if we tried!

No, I don't expect even ONE protest from Thai activists about this. EVER. So, if it happens, I guess I'll have to cope with the shock of that.

BTW, I did not call Thais weak.

I did not say they should protest.

I said I thought they should CONSIDER it.

Do Thai people want to be taken more seriously in the world? Their leadership acts like it is the big boss of Asean. Asean is important in the world. A country is its PEOPLE, wouldn't you agree?

Do I take a people more SERIOUSLY which has many people who engage with the wider world. Why, yes, yes I do, with no apologies.

Edited August 14, 2013 by Jingthing

[MegaRanter]

I don't have anything against the gay lifestyle, it's the person's choice.

What I don't get is why it's promoted outside it's realm.

Russia says they dont allow the promotion or the advertisement of that lifestyle to minors, and the gay movement wants to drag it to the ICC in e Hague.

In Uganda, people have no drinking water, good sanitation, inadequate nutrition, and a host of issues that demand attention, but some in the west thinks, hold on, we have to protect the sexual rights. Let's send them money for a gay pride march ASAP.

[Jingthing]

Not sexual rights. HUMAN rights.

BTW, gay is not a lifestyle and it is not a CHOICE. That kind of choice rhetoric is off base. I had about as much choice of being gay as being born a Jew. Gay is an IDENTITY for a minority of human beings in the world.

Edited August 14, 2013 by Jingthing

[Credo]

I don't have anything against the gay lifestyle, it's the person's choice.

What I don't get is why it's promoted outside it's realm.

Russia says they dont allow the promotion or the advertisement of that lifestyle to minors, and the gay movement wants to drag it to the ICC in e Hague.

In Uganda, people have no drinking water, good sanitation, inadequate nutrition, and a host of issues that demand attention, but some in the west thinks, hold on, we have to protect the sexual rights. Let's send them money for a gay pride march ASAP.

I would guess it would be even harder to be gay in Uganda.

I think that protesting human rights in Russia and poverty in Uganda is like comparing apples and oranges. I doubt that money will be diverted from one cause to the other.

[LeCharivari]

"... Do you consider this a weakness of the Thai people, this apparent lack of interest in anything outside their borders?"

I'd call it a strength - get your own house in order first, then you may be in a better position to comment on other peoples'.

[Jingthing]

"... Do you consider this a weakness of the Thai people, this apparent lack of interest in anything outside their borders?"

I'd call it a strength - get your own house in order first, then you may be in a better position to comment on other peoples'.

Do you really think Thailand will ever get it's house in order? Actually you could say that about any country. Countries that have international clout have many people that DO engage with the world regardless of problems within their own countries. Even more so in today's age of globalization.

Edited August 14, 2013 by Jingthing

[sustento]

I don't see the need for Thailand's gay activists to get involved. They'd just be trampled in the rush.

[Jingthing]

I don't see the need for Thailand's gay activists to get involved. They'd just be trampled in the rush.

I think it's interesting that we all assume the Thais won't do or say ANYTHING about this, not at any level. I think that's the consensus. That says something. What it says is as they say Up 2 U.

Yes, I do think it's a fair question given the relationship between Thailand and Russia and the MASSES of Russian tourists here including of course established Russian businesses. That's not the same as a country having nothing to do with Russia. Thailand has a LOT to do with Russia.

Edited August 14, 2013 by Jingthing

[LeCharivari]

"... Do you consider this a weakness of the Thai people, this apparent lack of interest in anything outside their borders?"

I'd call it a strength - get your own house in order first, then you may be in a better position to comment on other peoples'.

Do you really think Thailand will ever get it's house in order? Actually you could say that about any country. Countries that have international clout have many people that DO engage with the world regardless of problems within their own countries. Even more so in today's age of globalization.

"Countries that have international clout have many people that DO engage with the world regardless of problems within their own countries."

Agreed - it's so much easier to point the finger at someone else, and it diverts attention away from one's own weaknesses and failures so well.

Some see that as a strength, some as a failure - and some as both, depending on whether they are talking about their own country or someone else's.

[Jingthing]

All countries will ALWAYS have internal problems. People can be involved BOTH in domestic AND international concerns. We're not all Gerald Fords.

Bottom line: Thailand is not a very serious country on the international stage and shows little signs that is going to change anytime soon. If the Thais are happy with that, so be it. Just observing what I see.

Edited August 14, 2013 by Jingthing

[ToddWeston]

Everyone turn to their Thai civil partner, husband, partner, boyfriend and ask them what they think. I did.....

Start of conversation

Russia has enacted some serious anti gay laws and some are calling for protests and wondering if Thais would get out and protest because we farangs can't - do you think Thais would protest against Russia and their anti gay policy in Thailand?

Thai ------------- TV member

Russia what ?........ they don't have freedom like us

In Russia? .......yes dear

Why you care ? because I'm on TV and some think it's important

Okay whatever.....I'm reading and learning and want your opinion

Why we care?........ it's gays in Russia who can't live like us

Why waste our time we have our stuffs, Thailand is free so let them come here

How many gays in Russia ?....... I suspect 2 million

Gays in Russia .... really that many ? body builder types ? ..... didn't answer that one

and finally - why don't you look more like a Russian?

Bottom line: Thailand doesn't give a hoot or at least the one Thai I cherish doesn't and yes the country is a respected nation with lots of clout in terms of business and it's people are happy living in their fortress.

nb: The questions were conducted with 1 bottle of Marks and Sparks Chardonnay and may not represent all Thais.

Edited August 14, 2013 by ToddWeston

[Jingthing]

Funny post, Todd, but I doubt very many gay Russians can realistically come to Thailand to live permanently. Some, yes.

So IF one wanted to lure Thai gays to the embassy of Russia to protest, just hypothetically, some kind of dancing show with hot and hunky Russian men might do the trick?

Edited August 14, 2013 by Jingthing

[ToddWeston]

Funny post, Todd, but I doubt very many gay Russians can realistically come to Thailand to live permanently. Some, yes.

So IF one wanted to lure Thai gays to the embassy of Russia to protest, just hypothetically, some kind of dancing show with hot and hunky Russian men might do the trick?

Seems like that would do the trick, so help me god JT if he buys me weights tomorrow your ass is grass.

[onthemoon]

I think the guy on the left in the link in the OP is quite cute.

[sustento]

I think the guy on the left in the link in the OP is quite cute.

That's just so shallow! He's not as cute as Mister Second Left though...

[Jingthing]

I think the guy on the left in the link in the OP is quite cute.

That's just so shallow! He's not as cute as Mister Second Left though...

Second right gets my vote. He's the salsa of the earth type.

[isanbirder]

At last the real preoccupations of posters are showing through! Russians.... pah!

[ToddWeston]

At last the real preoccupations of posters are showing through! Russians.... pah!

Indeed and I even offered to carry all the heavy groceries today for a little work out - that 6 pack is somewhere I just need to find it.

[Jingthing]

Might as well.

Pattaya will be filled with Mexicans before we see any Thais showing up at a protest about something going on in another country that doesn't involve Thais.

[LeCharivari]

Since the justification given for focusing on "the Russians" rather than those many other countries with far more homophobic policies was that they are "European", on "the world stage", not a "theocracy", not a "third world" country, etc, etc (nothing political, of course) I can't see why the question of Thailand's lack of international gay activist awareness should ever arise in this context.

As our justification for focusing on Russia is supposedly our real or imagined cultural similarity and affinity, and those "lesser" countries deserve "less" attention, why should Thailand be singled out for implied criticism for not focusing on a country that is actually a considerable way down the list of the world's most homophobic countries?

If they were to follow the US lead in Putin bashing using the anti-gay law as a justification while ignoring all those other countries with far worse laws and punishments, up to and including execution and 10 years hard labour just for being gay, I don't think that would make people take Thailand more seriously - I think it would make Thailand look ill-informed, easily led and rather weak.

.... purely my opinion, of course

[sustento]

Everybody keeps saying that Russians are European but are they? I know that part of Russia is in Europe but it shares land borders with countries are far apart as Norway and China and the Russians are largely descended from Slavic forebears.

[Jingthing]

Thai gay activist aren't showing interest in treatment of gays in ANY foreign country, now are they? So let's be honest and not play silly games here. Not all that much gay activist political activity EVEN in their OWN country actually. Thailand is a leader of Asean. If you're going to focus on affinity: where's the protest of criminalization of homosexuality in Malaysia and Burma?

Edited August 15, 2013 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

Everybody keeps saying that Russians are European but are they? I know that part of Russia is in Europe but it shares land borders with countries are far apart as Norway and China and the Russians are largely descended from Slavic forebears.

Russia has strong ties to Europe especially EASTERN Europe. Certainly Eastern Europe is Europe. Russia ITSELF is in Europe AND Asia.

Cheers.

[isanbirder]

Thai gay activist aren't showing interest in treatment of gays in ANY foreign country, now are they? So let's be honest and not play silly games here. Not all that much gay activist political activity EVEN in their OWN country actually. Thailand is a leader of Asean. If you're going to focus on affinity: where's the protest of criminalization of homosexuality in Malaysia and Burma?

Part of the attraction of living in Thailand is the 'live and let live' attitude. It even applies to things going wrong in their own country (traffic indiscipline resulting in many deaths, for example), so I think it is unreasonable to expect Thais, even Thai activists, to bother themselves about other countries.

[Jingthing]

Thai gay activist aren't showing interest in treatment of gays in ANY foreign country, now are they? So let's be honest and not play silly games here. Not all that much gay activist political activity EVEN in their OWN country actually. Thailand is a leader of Asean. If you're going to focus on affinity: where's the protest of criminalization of homosexuality in Malaysia and Burma?

Part of the attraction of living in Thailand is the 'live and let live' attitude. It even applies to things going wrong in their own country (traffic indiscipline resulting in many deaths, for example), so I think it is unreasonable to expect Thais, even Thai activists, to bother themselves about other countries.

Nobody said expect. Just talking here, mate.

[isanbirder]

Thai gay activist aren't showing interest in treatment of gays in ANY foreign country, now are they? So let's be honest and not play silly games here. Not all that much gay activist political activity EVEN in their OWN country actually. Thailand is a leader of Asean. If you're going to focus on affinity: where's the protest of criminalization of homosexuality in Malaysia and Burma?

Part of the attraction of living in Thailand is the 'live and let live' attitude. It even applies to things going wrong in their own country (traffic indiscipline resulting in many deaths, for example), so I think it is unreasonable to expect Thais, even Thai activists, to bother themselves about other countries.

Nobody said expect. Just talking here, mate.

Yes, I did. But if what you mean is that this thread is just so much hot air, well....... isn't it?

[Jingthing]

Yes, I did. But if what you mean is that this thread is just so much hot air, well....... isn't it?

If you don't like the thread, don't post in it, like any other thread.

Personally, and you don't need to agree, I think it is interesting that a country like Thailand which is getting much more ambitious internationally as the leader of Asean, lacks a public that is really engaged in international affairs (gay or straight Thais both).

Edited August 16, 2013 by Jingthing