Water leak.. need help

[Timwin]

As Manarak said, you lose probably 75.000 liter a month. If the leak is outside you will notice a wet spot, even if the leak is under concrete with that amount of water, but it will be difficult to notice when it's inside the house because ceramic tiles don't absorb water. May a discoloring of the grout can give you a hint.

There must be a path to sewage pipe or to some ditch nearby. Maybe check the nearby area ditches.

[I Like Thai]

Where is your Meter located ? is it on the wall of your house or at the extremity of your property? The leak has to be after the meter and not before, if the meter is on the wall of your house, then the leak has to be someplace inside the house or under the house.

[BB1950]

Unfortunately finding skilled electricians and plumbers here is like finding hens teeth. The skilled workers are 'too busy' or won't bother with repairs as it's too much work and takes too much time for such a small job. They rather would do new installations. I face this problem several times a year and unfortunately can't make any reliable recommendations. I've found that paying more money doesn't really help. I often look around for construction sites or camps in the area and ask there, but you'll most likely have to have someone that can speak Thai. Many sub-contractors have the same problem finding skilled workers. Lots of unskilled workers!

With exterior PVC plumbing leaks, I've never have seen a problem with tree roots. It's usually a small hole developing in the angles of T's or elbows (poor castings), or glue joints (little or no glue used). Much of the soil around Pattaya is very sandy, so you may not see evidence of a small leak (dark or moist ground). I have a small leak that's been impossible to find for the past 5 years, but I have a rough idea where it's at. Getting to it is a major job, too much has to be demolished. Fortunately I have my own well, so the cost is negligible. It's just annoying to hear the pump cycle on an off every five minutes!

I wish you the best of luck!

[Jayman]

Where is your Meter located ? is it on the wall of your house or at the extremity of your property? The leak has to be after the meter and not before, if the meter is on the wall of your house, then the leak has to be someplace inside the house or under the house.

The meter is outside my front gate. The line goes underground from the meter onto my property, to the very back wall of my property where my tanks and pump are. Then there is a valve that I can use to direct the water from there into my tanks or into my house. From this valve to my house it is underground so I'm not sure the exact route it takes to my house. I'm not even sure where it enters my house and connects to the house lines. I have crawl space under the house and can see the pipes but have not been able to fit under there to see exactly where the line comes in from the ground.

I'm fairly certain that the leak is occurring between the valve by my tanks and where it connects to the house lines. There are many big trees around there and it makes sense that the roots from those trees might have broken an underground pipe. To be certain, I want someone to cut the pipe that enters the house and cap the other end and then see if the meter is still turning. If it's not, then that means the leak is inside the house plumbing. If it is still turning, then the leak is between that valve I mentioned and where they cut the line. Once it's confirmed it's not in the house, I'll probably have them just dig up that valve and connect a new pipe above ground and run that to the house line. This will save from having to break the concrete and dig up the whole yard looking for the broken pipe.

If the leak is inside the house then the fun really begins as that for sure will involve tearing up some floor (or maybe walls if one of the showers) to find the leak.

Really I just need some workers that know what they are doing that I can pay to do that actual work. I'm happy to watch and guide them on trying to figure out where the problem is and how best to fix it.

[geezer2]

I cant believe this has had 33 replies...wow

[Gnasher328]

Instead of looking for a plumber look for a couple of labourers to expose the pipe. Then you can simply bypass the leak. Years ago it hapened to me, a mate and I dug up the drive with a hired jackhammer and I replaced the duff bit with plastic myself. If you are even a bit fit, enought to climb in and out of the trench which is probably not very deep (has to be at least 1m in UK to prevent freezing, not a problem in Thailand), just buy the bits from the local Homepro or similar.

[blackman]

I had a similar problem recently as well and as a previous poster wrote, it was the ballcock & valve in the tank.

800 baht more a month is a leak of approx. 75000 liters a month.

If the leak is underground, I would also be worried about the ground being washed-out.

If the leak was the ball valve in the tank then you would see the tank overflow so that one is fairly obvious to detect. As I stated before, for me the leak is not to do with the tanks as to stop the meter moving I divert the city water to the tanks and when the tanks are full the meter stops spinning. Also, when I turn the pump on and divert the tank water to the house, I can hear the pump kicking in every minute to re pressurize the lines from the leaking pipes so that means the leak is outside the tanks on the other side of the pump. Somewhere after the pump which could be the lines to the house or a line inside the house.

i agree on the overflow thing and in theory it should be obvious to see but my underground tank had an overflow outlet that let water out when it reached a high level, like you would find in a sink or bath

so because my valve was not closing properly, water was still entering the tank although it was actually full and it was leaving by the overflow outlet

so i was in fact refilling the tank over and over and the overfilled water was escaping into the ground adjacent to the tank via the overflow outlet

it was not easy to detect as when it was full it looked normal,there were no bubbles or anything from the valve indicating water was still flowing as the water was filling the tank under the waterline.

200 baht to change it

problem solved

[craigt3365]

We had problems with this in our village a few months ago. Turns out it was air coming through the pipes and spinning the meter. Our bill was almost double what it should have been. Same with our club house and many other houses. I'm not sure how it was resolved. I'd have to check with our manager, but all's well now. We're back to our normal amounts.

This has happened several times to us. I'd recommend going to the water company and having them come out and take a look. When we first moved in we had issues with our meter. They were out the next day and told us we needed a new one. Replaced it on the spot.

If it is a leak of that size, best to have it looked at immediately. Sink holes can really cause problems!!

[blackman]

We had problems with this in our village a few months ago. Turns out it was air coming through the pipes and spinning the meter. Our bill was almost double what it should have been. Same with our club house and many other houses. I'm not sure how it was resolved. I'd have to check with our manager, but all's well now. We're back to our normal amounts.

This has happened several times to us. I'd recommend going to the water company and having them come out and take a look. When we first moved in we had issues with our meter. They were out the next day and told us we needed a new one. Replaced it on the spot.

If it is a leak of that size, best to have it looked at immediately. Sink holes can really cause problems!!

i have had the air thing too

i turned off the valve when the government water was off line, unhooked one end and then opened it and low and behold

the meter was spinning

i could hear airflow in the pipe that was driving it

i was paying for air!

i videoed it for the water board to see but it made no difference to the bill

too much to take in for them to give a rebate

i did find out though that the meter flows both ways and the reading can go backwards as well as forwards

so one can make your own rebate if you get my drift....

[anto]

There is probably some tool advailable to detect the leak without having to open up the whole run of the pipe ?

[pattayadingo]

Silly idea, maybe.

Ask the local m/c taxi people. They often can do it or know someone who will. Very often they have plenty of information and friends.

[Jayman]

I had a similar problem recently as well and as a previous poster wrote, it was the ballcock & valve in the tank.

800 baht more a month is a leak of approx. 75000 liters a month.

If the leak is underground, I would also be worried about the ground being washed-out.

If the leak was the ball valve in the tank then you would see the tank overflow so that one is fairly obvious to detect. As I stated before, for me the leak is not to do with the tanks as to stop the meter moving I divert the city water to the tanks and when the tanks are full the meter stops spinning. Also, when I turn the pump on and divert the tank water to the house, I can hear the pump kicking in every minute to re pressurize the lines from the leaking pipes so that means the leak is outside the tanks on the other side of the pump. Somewhere after the pump which could be the lines to the house or a line inside the house.

i agree on the overflow thing and in theory it should be obvious to see but my underground tank had an overflow outlet that let water out when it reached a high level, like you would find in a sink or bath

so because my valve was not closing properly, water was still entering the tank although it was actually full and it was leaving by the overflow outlet

so i was in fact refilling the tank over and over and the overfilled water was escaping into the ground adjacent to the tank via the overflow outlet

it was not easy to detect as when it was full it looked normal,there were no bubbles or anything from the valve indicating water was still flowing as the water was filling the tank under the waterline.

200 baht to change it

problem solved

My tanks are above ground and when they overfill I can see water spilling out the top. That had been a problem in the past but is not he issue at present.

[Jayman]

We had problems with this in our village a few months ago. Turns out it was air coming through the pipes and spinning the meter. Our bill was almost double what it should have been. Same with our club house and many other houses. I'm not sure how it was resolved. I'd have to check with our manager, but all's well now. We're back to our normal amounts.

This has happened several times to us. I'd recommend going to the water company and having them come out and take a look. When we first moved in we had issues with our meter. They were out the next day and told us we needed a new one. Replaced it on the spot.

If it is a leak of that size, best to have it looked at immediately. Sink holes can really cause problems!!

Interesting as our neighbor just got a over 1000thb water bill as well for this first time this past month. Ours has been a problem for the past several months and as I have said I certain we have a leak as when I turn off the city water and use the tank and pumps it's obvious that the pump is kicking on every minute for a few secs to service the leak.

[VocalNeal]

There is probably some tool advailable to detect the leak without having to open up the whole run of the pipe ?

he said he tried to hire one but no one wishes to do it.

On a more serious note:

Does the Op have an electric hammer drill? Yes. Go to a hardware store and get a ground rod. They are about 4ft + long. Put the ground rod into the drill set the thing to hammer go to the tree where you think the leak is an ' drill" the rod into the ground then "drill" it out. keep doing this until it comes out with evidence of water on it. That is the place to dig. Where on the rod the water is will tell you how deep.

[Jayman]

There is probably some tool advailable to detect the leak without having to open up the whole run of the pipe ?

he said he tried to hire one but no one wishes to do it.

On a more serious note:

Does the Op have an electric hammer drill? Yes. Go to a hardware store and get a ground rod. They are about 4ft + long. Put the ground rod into the drill set the thing to hammer go to the tree where you think the leak is an ' drill" the rod into the ground then "drill" it out. keep doing this until it comes out with evidence of water on it. That is the place to dig. Where on the rod the water is will tell you how deep.

The only electric tool I own is a basic drill.

[mogandave]

It's seems really true about a critical labor shortage of skilled plumbing tradesman to do REPAIRS. I recently had a pretty minor problem and it was major nightmare even getting someone to even have a look. When you consider they can overcharge f-rangs, that says even more.

That f-rangs always complain about being overcharged says something as well.

Competent tradesmen generally do not need work bad enough to suffer through another loud, disrespectful, know-it-all a-hole that does not want to do it himself, but wants to go on and on about how easy it will be.

[Jayman]

It's seems really true about a critical labor shortage of skilled plumbing tradesman to do REPAIRS. I recently had a pretty minor problem and it was major nightmare even getting someone to even have a look. When you consider they can overcharge f-rangs, that says even more.

That f-rangs always complain about being overcharged says something as well.

Competent tradesmen generally do not need work bad enough to suffer through another loud, disrespectful, know-it-all a-hole that does not want to do it himself, but wants to go on and on about how easy it will be.

Thanks for coming here to explain to us why it's the farangs fault that I can't find a thai to do the work at my house. Much appreciated.

I have received 1 referral via PM and that was to a farang worker and I have called him in hopes that he can come out and sort the problem. Will be several days before he has the time but I will continue to try and get things sorted.

I do appreciate all the helpful comments that I have received thus far.

[ThaidDown]

I remember seeing years ago water company men coming round checking the mains with 'listening sticks', rods about 4 foot long with an ear cup at the top , they would follow the outside mains and stop every few metres and listen to the sound of water running. If there was a leak underground the amount of water flowing would suddenly decrease after the leak point.

Maybe your local water depot still has such a device and a person who could use it. ( weird thought...if you know a doctor maybe a stethoscope could pick up underground water flow, worth trying anything before randomly digging)

With the amount of water that is leaking (more than 1 cu m /day) it would seem very unlikely that this could be absorbed by the building without visible signs of wetness, especially as you have a crawl space. Suggest you rig up as strong a light as possible in the crawl space when inspecting, gives more chance for any wetness to 'glisten'. If no signs suggest leak is outside the house.

[jbrain]

There is probably some tool advailable to detect the leak without having to open up the whole run of the pipe ?

he said he tried to hire one but no one wishes to do it.

On a more serious note:

Does the Op have an electric hammer drill? Yes. Go to a hardware store and get a ground rod. They are about 4ft + long. Put the ground rod into the drill set the thing to hammer go to the tree where you think the leak is an ' drill" the rod into the ground then "drill" it out. keep doing this until it comes out with evidence of water on it. That is the place to dig. Where on the rod the water is will tell you how deep.

You mean, that's the place where you have punctured the water pipe

[anto]

There is probably some tool advailable to detect the leak without having to open up the whole run of the pipe ?

he said he tried to hire one but no one wishes to do it.

On a more serious note:

Does the Op have an electric hammer drill? Yes. Go to a hardware store and get a ground rod. They are about 4ft + long. Put the ground rod into the drill set the thing to hammer go to the tree where you think the leak is an ' drill" the rod into the ground then "drill" it out. keep doing this until it comes out with evidence of water on it. That is the place to dig. Where on the rod the water is will tell you how deep.

You mean, that's the place where you have punctured the water pipe

Exactly ,prodding with a rod and hammer drill will only suceed in making another hole .Thats unless you are sure of the line the pipe is taking under ground .

[fakename]

I dont know what your crawl space looks like, but I sure wouldnt want to crawl under a house that might have something that could kill me. Yes, I would send someone else to do it! But really, that much water has to be going somewhere, and you should be able to see it.

[Jayman]

I have looked in the crawl space under the house with a flashlight and saw no obvious signs of leakage. I too would think is the leak was occurring there I would be able to see it. This is another reason I think the leak occurs outside the house on the property somewhere.

I received a PM with a link to http://pattayahomerepair.com/ and have called them and they are coming out Monday. I will keep everyone posted as to how well they perform and how much they charge. I hope to have found a good source for home repairs when needed. The other call I made was to a farang that does work out here and he is busy till Wed so if this shop coming out on Monday can't handle it then I will be calling him again on Wed.

[wpcoe]

Just thinking off the top of my head, so if this is not well thought out, my apologies:

Since you have found a Thai that can fit in the crawl space under your house, can s/he cut various supply lines and insert shut-off valves? If so, then you could shut off entire sections of your water supply and then see if the water meter stops spinning and/or the water pump stop pressurizing the system so often. My idea is that you could narrow your search for the leak. In fact, I guess you could be systematic and insert one valve at a time, testing the system as you go, until you home in on the leak?

[Jayman]

Just wanted to follow up and say the folks at http://pattayahomerepair.com/ sent a couple guys out to our house today and they did a very professional job trying to locate the leak. They first found a major leak that was caused from the poor job the first guy we had out did that would explain why even after we started turning off the water when not in use our bills were still climbing higher. They found another leak on top of that one and fixed it as well. Then, after seeing the meter was still moving they started installing valves into the lines to separate out different lines and zone in on where the problem was/wasn't. It turned out that it was not in the ground from the pump to the house line. That's good cause it would have been a pair to deal with. Also turned out not to be anywhere in the bathrooms which was also good cause they would have required tiles be torn out. Seem that the remaining leaky pipe was one that traveled under the house to the other side of the property that was being used to the laundry. After installing a valve and confirming that line was the remaining leak they left it turned off and will return tomorrow to run a new line to that area. That will be much easier and cheaper than trying to tear up the old line and repair it and where this new line will be placed is very much out of the way to normal traffic on the property.

I have to say that they really seemed to know what they were doing and didn't charge an arm and leg to do the job correctly. We paid 1000thb today for their time and the parts they bought to fix the leaks and install multiple valves that have been left in place in case we ever need to isolate any lines in the future. They will return tomorrow and with the new pipe they are running I can't see that costing any more than 1000thb either. All in all I'm happy with how it's progressing. We have use to all the water on our property but 1 line that feeds the washing machine and the meter is not spinning when no water is being used. Tomorrow we will have full use of the washing machine again.

So glad to finally have this being fixed properly. Thanks to the member that referred me to that website. I will be happy to pass forward the contact details to the guys that actually came out and did the work. If anyone needs them, feel free to PM me and I'll pass over the details.

[Beardog]

Just wanted to follow up and say the folks at http://pattayahomerepair.com/ sent a couple guys out to our house today and they did a very professional job trying to locate the leak. They first found a major leak that was caused from the poor job the first guy we had out did that would explain why even after we started turning off the water when not in use our bills were still climbing higher. They found another leak on top of that one and fixed it as well. Then, after seeing the meter was still moving they started installing valves into the lines to separate out different lines and zone in on where the problem was/wasn't. It turned out that it was not in the ground from the pump to the house line. That's good cause it would have been a pair to deal with. Also turned out not to be anywhere in the bathrooms which was also good cause they would have required tiles be torn out. Seem that the remaining leaky pipe was one that traveled under the house to the other side of the property that was being used to the laundry. After installing a valve and confirming that line was the remaining leak they left it turned off and will return tomorrow to run a new line to that area. That will be much easier and cheaper than trying to tear up the old line and repair it and where this new line will be placed is very much out of the way to normal traffic on the property.

I have to say that they really seemed to know what they were doing and didn't charge an arm and leg to do the job correctly. We paid 1000thb today for their time and the parts they bought to fix the leaks and install multiple valves that have been left in place in case we ever need to isolate any lines in the future. They will return tomorrow and with the new pipe they are running I can't see that costing any more than 1000thb either. All in all I'm happy with how it's progressing. We have use to all the water on our property but 1 line that feeds the washing machine and the meter is not spinning when no water is being used. Tomorrow we will have full use of the washing machine again.

So glad to finally have this being fixed properly. Thanks to the member that referred me to that website. I will be happy to pass forward the contact details to the guys that actually came out and did the work. If anyone needs them, feel free to PM me and I'll pass over the details.

Sounds like a happy ending! Pipes can be a bitch- That is why I do all the plumbing. At least I know that the job is done correctly. & I always put shut offs in every leg to make it easy to troubleshoot years later along with pumping up the pressure with an air compressor to 150 psi. That is the best way to get a bulletproof system. Sometimes this is not an option if you purchase prebuilt but any line run into areas that have cement Like the bathrooms I put in a 1&1/2-2" pipe & run the 1/2 " in the inside of it. That way if anything needs to get ripped up later it is way minimal. Chop off one end & just pull the dead horse through & reconnect where it is repaired........Better than having to chop entire floor areas or inside walls & match tile or the texture of the wall.

[craigt3365]

Just wanted to follow up and say the folks at http://pattayahomerepair.com/ sent a couple guys out to our house today and they did a very professional job trying to locate the leak. They first found a major leak that was caused from the poor job the first guy we had out did that would explain why even after we started turning off the water when not in use our bills were still climbing higher. They found another leak on top of that one and fixed it as well. Then, after seeing the meter was still moving they started installing valves into the lines to separate out different lines and zone in on where the problem was/wasn't. It turned out that it was not in the ground from the pump to the house line. That's good cause it would have been a pair to deal with. Also turned out not to be anywhere in the bathrooms which was also good cause they would have required tiles be torn out. Seem that the remaining leaky pipe was one that traveled under the house to the other side of the property that was being used to the laundry. After installing a valve and confirming that line was the remaining leak they left it turned off and will return tomorrow to run a new line to that area. That will be much easier and cheaper than trying to tear up the old line and repair it and where this new line will be placed is very much out of the way to normal traffic on the property.

I have to say that they really seemed to know what they were doing and didn't charge an arm and leg to do the job correctly. We paid 1000thb today for their time and the parts they bought to fix the leaks and install multiple valves that have been left in place in case we ever need to isolate any lines in the future. They will return tomorrow and with the new pipe they are running I can't see that costing any more than 1000thb either. All in all I'm happy with how it's progressing. We have use to all the water on our property but 1 line that feeds the washing machine and the meter is not spinning when no water is being used. Tomorrow we will have full use of the washing machine again.

So glad to finally have this being fixed properly. Thanks to the member that referred me to that website. I will be happy to pass forward the contact details to the guys that actually came out and did the work. If anyone needs them, feel free to PM me and I'll pass over the details.

Sounds like a happy ending! Pipes can be a bitch- That is why I do all the plumbing. At least I know that the job is done correctly. & I always put shut offs in every leg to make it easy to troubleshoot years later along with pumping up the pressure with an air compressor to 150 psi. That is the best way to get a bulletproof system. Sometimes this is not an option if you purchase prebuilt but any line run into areas that have cement Like the bathrooms I put in a 1&1/2-2" pipe & run the 1/2 " in the inside of it. That way if anything needs to get ripped up later it is way minimal. Chop off one end & just pull the dead horse through & reconnect where it is repaired........Better than having to chop entire floor areas or inside walls & match tile or the texture of the wall.

Stop it, Beardog! You're making too much sense! 5555555

[canman]

Just wanted to follow up and say the folks at http://pattayahomerepair.com/ sent a couple guys out to our house today and they did a very professional job trying to locate the leak. They first found a major leak that was caused from the poor job the first guy we had out did that would explain why even after we started turning off the water when not in use our bills were still climbing higher. They found another leak on top of that one and fixed it as well. Then, after seeing the meter was still moving they started installing valves into the lines to separate out different lines and zone in on where the problem was/wasn't. It turned out that it was not in the ground from the pump to the house line. That's good cause it would have been a pair to deal with. Also turned out not to be anywhere in the bathrooms which was also good cause they would have required tiles be torn out. Seem that the remaining leaky pipe was one that traveled under the house to the other side of the property that was being used to the laundry. After installing a valve and confirming that line was the remaining leak they left it turned off and will return tomorrow to run a new line to that area. That will be much easier and cheaper than trying to tear up the old line and repair it and where this new line will be placed is very much out of the way to normal traffic on the property.

I have to say that they really seemed to know what they were doing and didn't charge an arm and leg to do the job correctly. We paid 1000thb today for their time and the parts they bought to fix the leaks and install multiple valves that have been left in place in case we ever need to isolate any lines in the future. They will return tomorrow and with the new pipe they are running I can't see that costing any more than 1000thb either. All in all I'm happy with how it's progressing. We have use to all the water on our property but 1 line that feeds the washing machine and the meter is not spinning when no water is being used. Tomorrow we will have full use of the washing machine again.

So glad to finally have this being fixed properly. Thanks to the member that referred me to that website. I will be happy to pass forward the contact details to the guys that actually came out and did the work. If anyone needs them, feel free to PM me and I'll pass over the details.

Sounds like a happy ending! Pipes can be a bitch- That is why I do all the plumbing. At least I know that the job is done correctly. & I always put shut offs in every leg to make it easy to troubleshoot years later along with pumping up the pressure with an air compressor to 150 psi. That is the best way to get a bulletproof system. Sometimes this is not an option if you purchase prebuilt but any line run into areas that have cement Like the bathrooms I put in a 1&1/2-2" pipe & run the 1/2 " in the inside of it. That way if anything needs to get ripped up later it is way minimal. Chop off one end & just pull the dead horse through & reconnect where it is repaired........Better than having to chop entire floor areas or inside walls & match tile or the texture of the wall.

Great tip about running pipe in pipe. Do you really test your lines with 150psi? I know 15psi mains pressure in the west is considered very good so you would be testing to 10 times working pressure which sounds high. A suggestion would be to fill any pipes you are going to test with water before applying air pressure. That way if you do get a catastrophic failure its not gong to go off like a bomb. Also add some red food dye to the water which will help show up small weeping leaks.