Eastern <---> Western Hybrid Children

[greenwanderer108]

my eyes sometimes turns green when I get pissed.

And yes ive seen a few with blue and green eyes.

Contact lenses don't count...

you've seen a few what? Half Thais...half what? Are you sure that was their actual eye color, not contacts???

Aside from my own family members...sisters, brother, nieces, and nephews who are mixed, not to mention the many luuk kreung friends I've befriended/aquanted with...none have had green or blue eyes..

Not only that, I know of no luuk kreung actor, actress, singers, stars, models etc who has green-blue eyes either...

Maybe it's not impossible, though I haven't seen it...but if you're going to tell me a luuk kreung adult with natural bleach blande hair...then I think you're full of it...

Edited April 17, 2006 by greenwanderer108

[Donz]

Yes natural colour eyes.

Not half Thai though, half asian half caucasian.

Ive seen a halfy with red hair, but dont think ive seen a blonde

[skylar]

Yes natural colour eyes.

Not half Thai though, half asian half caucasian.

Ive seen a halfy with red hair, but dont think ive seen a blonde

One of my partner's friends is half Caucasian, half Chinese and has green eyes and black hair... his saying "life's a breeze when you're half Chinese"!

[think_too_mut]

Maybe it's not impossible, though I haven't seen it...

There is a board member who rarely comes - I saw a pic of his 3yrs old daughter and she was completely white and had blond hair. I could not believe Thai strem had been all left out.

Did not see the eyes though, the pic was taken from a 7-8m distance.

His wife was being asked if it is a good money to look after a farang baby.

Same happens to my wife, to a lesser extent. Especially when she takes her to that playground next to [Place reference edited out. /Meadish]. Many nannies take their "work" there and chat while the kids are playing.

[autonomous_unit]

As I tried to say, the all-or-nothing only applies to single gene traits. What you are observing is that most likely these pigmentation traits are not controlled by a single gene that is "on" or "off" but rather lots of genes which affect the pigment cells.

I know little about hair, except that I seem to have a mixture of the density of hair my mother has and the texture of my father's, with a coloration somewhere in between.

As for eyes, I remember reading that there is actually only one color of pigmentation in all human eyes. The variable function is just the density (and maybe distirbution?) of these pigmentation cells. An albino person, lacking pigmentation, has pale blue eyes which are very reflective, and that is the "canvas" over which all other eye colors are made... you can make it a darker blue with shadings of dark brown i.e. "black" or green with a light brown i.e. "yellow". Hazel comes as you go from green to brown, etc. finally you get to very dark brown/black.

So, it is not like there is a gene that says "green" or "hazel" but rather a contribution to your pigmentation from both parents that happens to cause a particular shade. And, sometimes this varies over time. Have you ever seen an elderly european whose eyes have become almost gray? I think the blue comes from veins with oxygen-poor blood, so changes in circulation could also affect how blue or gray the eye looks.

[Donz]

what does that mean?

In short does that say you dont really know?

[think_too_mut]

We need a "Family" section on the board.

Where to put it? There is at least one that has little to do with families.

With the number of members who are in family life in Thailand, I believe it warrants it.

[Johpa]

In Southeast Asia your primary genetic concern is Thalassemia which occurs as it does throughout Europe and Asia (sickle cell in Africa) wherever there is warm temps, mosquitos, and of course malaria. There is a decent chance a Southeast Asian will carry the gene for α-Thalassemia or β-Thalassemia. It will show itself to the pediatrician of your child with a slightly irregular iron reading in the blood work. Fortunately, being a carrier has absolutely no ill effect upon the person other than perhaps eliminating them from winning a marathon race in Denver. On the plus side, and the raison d'être for the existence of all Thalassemias, is that it provides protection from malaria, saving the lives of more people then it kills where malaria occurs.

Wow, this post was really interesting. Especially "Thalassemias provides protection from malaria".

My Thai wife went to a GP and mentioned a strange bruise she had on her hand after a slight accident. She went for a blood count which showed an "irregular iron reading".

Following a couple of months of worry (as my wifes sister died from a blood disorder) waiting to see a specialist and then to get further results back, we found out that she has Thalassemia.

The speciallist basically said goodbye, have a nice life! Great news!

Here is some further info on thalassemia:

http://www.healthatoz.com/healthatoz/Atoz/...thalassemia.jsp

Cheers YBB

I read up on thalassemia after my son was diagnosed as being a carrier of both α-Thalassemia & β-Thalassemia. The genetics involved are not too difficult to understand being at the same basic level as Gregor Mendel's work on peas. Most medical text books spend just a few pages on the genetics and then quickly go into many pages of incomprehensible, to the layman, testing techniques for use in the laboratory. If I remember correctly from my readings nearly 20 years ago, the majority of embryos that have received the defective gene from both parents will not carry to full term. And as noted, being a carrier, receiving the gene from only one parent, of either or both types will have no impact upon one's life apart from having a statistical advantage surviving against the malaria parasite.

The prevalence of thalassemia in Southeast Asian populations should cause all of you who are married to someone from that population to become educated about thalessmia and then you will also be able to understand better the trivial genetic matters being discussed here such as eye color.

[bina]

An allele is any one of a number of viable DNA codings of the same gene (sometimes the term refers to a non-gene sequence) occupying a given locus (position) on a chromosome. An individual's genotype for that gene will be the set of alleles it happens to possess. In an organism which has two copies of each of its chromosomes (a diploid organism), two alleles make up the individual's genotype.

An example is the gene for blossom color in many species of flower -- a single gene controls the color of the petals, but there may be several different versions of the gene. One version might result in red petals, while another might result in white petals. The color of an individual flower will depend on which two alleles it possesses for this color gene, and how the two interact.

[edit]

Introduction

Organisms that are diploid such as humans have paired homologous chromosomes in their somatic cells, and these contain two copies of each gene. An organism in which the two copies of the gene are identical -- that is, have the same allele -- is said to be homozygous for that gene. An organism which has two different alleles of the gene is said to be heterozygous. Phenotypes (the expressed characteristics) associated with a certain allele can sometimes be dominant or recessive, but often they are neither. A dominant phenotype will be expressed when only one allele of its associated type is present, whereas a recessive phenotype will only be expressed when both alleles are of its associated type.

However, there are exceptions to the way heterozygotes express themselves in the phenotype. One exception is incomplete dominance (sometimes called blending inheritance) when alleles blend their traits in the phenotype. An example of this would be seen if, when crossing Antirrhinums -- flowers with incompletely dominant "red" and "white" alleles for petal color -- the resulting offspring had pink petals. Another exception is co-dominance, where both alleles are active and both traits are expressed at the same time; for example, both red and white petals in the same bloom or red and white flowers on the same plant. Codominance is also apparent in human blood types. A person with one "A" blood type allele and one "B" blood type allele would have a blood type of "AB".

A wild type allele is an allele which is considered to be "normal" for the organism in question, as opposed to a mutant allele which is usually a relatively new modification.

(Note that with the advent of the study of genetic markers, the term allele is often now used to refer to DNA codings in junk DNA. For example, the term allele frequency tables are often presented for genetic markers, such as the DYS markers.)

[edit]

wikipedia

[Narachon]

Hi greenwanderer!

Haven't been here in a while!

Anyway, saw this topic when I logged in, thought I'd reply!

Thanks Bina for the colorful picture of Isreal...

That said, there still hasn't been an account with a half Thai having blue-green eyes...

BTW Donz...I was born with light dirty blande hair too, but I as you got darker with the age...

Never the less, can you ever recall seeing/meeting a luuk kreung or any half Asian for that matter

who had blue-green eyes and/or blande hair as an adult

???

Is it just not genetically possible?

Bina explained it somewhat in the previous post. It IS genetically possible for a Thai Leuk Krung to have green eyes, but it would be a very, very rare occurence, as I posted regarding the topic two years ago here on the "Thai Girls with Green Eyes Thread"... I hope I explained it so that everyone can understand...

I have seen two black girls - one with green eyes, one with blue. No contacts. Both their eyes were cloudy - not sharp coloured. Hard to explain, but the green was more of a green with a little brown mixed in. The Blue looked frightening, it was so cloudy, it was almost washed out completely. Must been interacial I should think.

Once saw a Green eyed chinese girl, but it was definitely contacts - too dark a green (like the back of a leaf) and little variation across the iris. Its amazing the detail you notice in something strange.

Lets see....In my case,my Dad has Greenish brown eyes...and My Grandmother has grey eyes...(She is half Irish-American ), But they are very light skinned Black people... My dad looks like an old, worn out version of Vin Deisel now... My mother has the usually dominant Black/Dark Brown eye color of African Americans, so I have inherited the same color eyes also... But If I happen to marry someone with Green Eyes and have four children with her, two out of those four kids would display the recessive traits of lighter colored eyes......

It is possible for an Asian looking person to have greenish eyes though - you just need one, two or possibly three generations ( F1, F2, and F3 ) of intermixing to get a "typical" Asian phenotype with Greenish type eyes, since Dark eyes are the dominant color gene for people, especially in Asia...

(Narachon deperately trying to remember the Genetics class I took in College... )

Let me see if I can explain this process using Punett Squares from Medelian Genetics....

Take for example a European man ( Green Eyes Recessive, GG ) + one Asian woman ( Dark Brown Eyes Dominant, DD ) ...

Assuming they have four kids ( F1 Generation)...

GG X DD = 4 DG

1. DG DG
   
2. DG DG
   

F1 Generation has Dark Brown Eyes Pheotype with Green Eye Recessive Genotype ( DG )

Now if the first Gen (F1) has the same number of children with another person of the same Genotype ( DG ) not necessarily the same F1 generation... : The F2 Generation would look like this:

DG X DG = 2 DG, 1 DD, 1 DG

1. DD DG
   
2. DG GG
   

The Grandchildren = F2 Generation, has inherited Dark Brown Eyes Pheotype with 3/4 frequency... Two of the children will carry the Green eye recessive gene, and only one will have fully expressed Green eyes

But if you correlate the Dark Eye Gene ( Dominant ) with the Asian Epicantic Fold (ie "Slant-eye" ) Gene ( which is also Dominant ), the chances of finding a Asian looking person with Green eyes would be very very very rare, I believe... Same case as a Dark Skinned Black person having Light colored eyes.....

So if you are a white man with Green or Blue eyes, and have children with a Asian woman, don't expect to see your kids with green or blue eyes, unless your wife/Girlfriend is somehow carrying those genes...

Anyway, as things are going now, I bet in 50 to a hundred years, most Thais in Bangkok will look like Keanu Reaves and Jennifer Tilly!

( But speaking in American / Austrailan Accents )

[greenwanderer108]

Let me see if I can explain this process using Punett Squares from Medelian Genetics....

Thanks, this brought it all home for me...

So if I understand correctly, what Bina referred from Wilkopedia explaining incomplete dominance i.e. blending inheritance explains what goes on with hair. So then, hair/body hair must not fall under the Medilian genetics of dominate/recessive probabilities, etc...but more in the melting pot type platform...

And why I havnen't met Thai luuk kreung's with green-blue eyes makes more sense now thanks to that crash course on Medelian Genetics And that would explain why my nephews of an American father and luuk kreung mother (my sister) were able to have blue eyes, while my neice of a Thai mother and luuk kreung father (my brother) has dark brown eyes..

Even though my sister has dark brown eyes herself, she was still carrying the Blue recessive DB from my father who must have been a BB (he has blue eyes) as so was her mate's (he had brown eyes too) father passed on the Blue recessive to him. ...and so to cut it all short, if I want to have offspring that will be atleast 50 percent Thai and have blue eyes, I'd have to mate with another luuk kreung who's father or mother had blue eyes.

It's a nice fantasy for now...but not as likely so what are the chances my son has the Blue recessive in him now. Being his mother is most likely the DD and I am a DB...my son then most likely be a DD...one in four chance of being DB?? In other words, if I had four children with my Thai Chinese mate, statistical probabilities suggest that one of them will be born with the recessive Blue eye trait...

So, that offspring which inherited the recessive B would have to mate with someone else who carried either the dominate or recessive B for it to be possible to breed back the Blue eyes... Get it, got it, good...correct my theory if I'm wrong please.

While we're on the subject of eyes...what is the natural selection basis for colorization. Weren't there some tests that explained why naturally humans in different regions adapted with different eye colors i.e. climate, elevation, etc...

Is it true that dark eye color statistically have better vision than light color or was that just some myth instilled in my head as a youth ?

Edited April 18, 2006 by greenwanderer108

[Donz]

Like i said before, I saw a halfy kid have red hair and none of there parents had red hair

[greenwanderer108]

Okay...here's some more pictures of my luuk siaw nephews and neice in the states...As for my neice in Thailand, I don't have a picture on my com yet...sorry

My older half sister (same Thai mother, different American father) and her two sons of an American father

My half sister's oldest daughter...she's the one that took to her Thai genes most being only a quarter Thai

And these three boys are my full sister's sons. Theydidn't seem to retain any Thai at all, though perhaps it will surface when they age

That's all for now...I'd love to see other's pictures of their breeds, mutts, mixes, or whatever you feel comfortable calling them.

[Narachon]

Let me see if I can explain this process using Punett Squares from Medelian Genetics....

Thanks, this brought it all home for me...

So if I understand correctly, what Bina referred from Wilkopedia explaining incomplete dominance i.e. blending inheritance explains what goes on with hair. So then, hair/body hair must not fall under the Medilian genetics of dominate/recessive probabilities, etc...but more in the melting pot type platform...

Yeah, I think that is correct....Incomplete dominance is when one gene phenotype does not totally hide the phenotype of the other gene. For example, if an African ( with kinky hair ) mated with an Asian ( with straight hair ), their offspring will have curly hair, even though kinky gene is dominant over straight hair. In some genetic loci (ie, eye color ) having only one copy of the trait is enough to give the full trait. But in the case of hair, only one copy of the hairform or color doesn't give the full trait.

And why I havnen't met Thai luuk kreung's with green-blue eyes makes more sense now thanks to that crash course on Medelian Genetics And that would explain why my nephews of an American father and luuk kreung mother (my sister) were able to have blue eyes, while my neice of a Thai mother and luuk kreung father (my brother) has dark brown eyes..

Even though my sister has dark brown eyes herself, she was still carrying the Blue recessive DB from my father who must have been a BB (he has blue eyes) as so was her mate's (he had brown eyes too) father passed on the Blue recessive to him.

You have learned well, Young Grasshopper!

...and so to cut it all short, if I want to have offspring that will be atleast 50 percent Thai and have blue eyes, I'd have to mate with another luuk kreung who's father or mother had blue eyes.

Yes!

For example, if you married another Luuk Kreung like your sister ( not saying that you would mate with your sister , but someone with her Genotype similar to yours, say Tata Young ), your Leuk Siaw F2 generation would be: DB X DB = 2 DB, 1 DD, 1 BB

a. DD DB

b. DB BB

Got any ideas?

She would make a great Mia Noi....

It's a nice fantasy for now...but not as likely so what are the chances my son has the Blue recessive in him now. Being his mother is most likely the DD and I am a DB...my son then most likely be a DD...one in four chance of being DB?? In other words, if I had four children with my Thai Chinese mate, statistical probabilities suggest that one of them will be born with the recessive Blue eye trait...

Let's see now...

DB (greenwanderer108 ) X DD ( greenwanderer108's Chinese Thai Wife ) = 2 DD and 2 DB

a. DD DB

b. DD DB

This would also apply to your luuk kreung brother marrying your Thai sister in Law, too.

So if you have four Leuk Siaw children with your Thai Chinese wife, at most one of your kids will have the DB genotype..But there is no way to tell what gene your kid is carrying ( ...for now.... ), because your kids will be expressing the Dark Eye dominant phenotype.

So, that offspring which inherited the recessive B would have to mate with someone else who carried either the dominate or recessive B for it to be possible to breed back the Blue eyes... Get it, got it, good...correct my theory if I'm wrong please.

Yes, you are correct, your F2 Leuk Siaw generation ( your kids, assuming you had four ) would be carrying 2/4 frequency of the recessive Blue - Eye phenotype gene. If two of your kids that had theDB gene married someone with the same DB

gene, or a full BB gene, would have children with blue eyes.

But unless Leuk Krungs / Leuk Siaw specifically married each other, married partners with lighter colored eyes or married into a majority population with a high frequency of lighter colored eyes, the Blue Eyed phenotype will gradually and eventually become swallowed up in the majority dark - eyed popualation.

While we're on the subject of eyes...what is the natural selection basis for colorization. Weren't there some tests that explained why naturally humans in different regions adapted with different eye colors i.e. climate, elevation, etc...

Is it true that dark eye color statistically have better vision than light color or was that just some myth instilled in my head as a youth ?

Actually, Prehistoric Europeans developed the lighter eye colors, along with the lighter skin in order for their bodies to make Vitamin D, because Europe back in the day was a very cold, cloudy place, ( unlike Central Asia, which was cold , sunny but very windy - hence the dark eyed Epicantic Fold of Asians eyes , and darker skins). Outside of Europe, with few exceptions, most people around the world have darker skins. I would think that Darker colored eyes would offer better protection against the suns rays (UVB) than lighter colored eyes, with the fact that Dark colored eyes are now dominant Genotype and Phenotype in the world population - They were far more advantageous than lighter colored eyes, unless you lived in dark, cold, cloudy northern Europe!

As for eye colors having better vision than others, there was a study ( I can't remember what it was ) that said that people with lighter color eyes had much better night vision than people with darker color eyes, something along the lines of lighter eyes let in fainter wavelenghts in dark surroundings. ( European cave men needed to see in the dark caverns? ) But statistically, I would think that vision would be the same across the board.

BTW, nice pics of your family!

Edited April 18, 2006 by Narachon

[Narachon]

Whoops!

Sorry for the double post....

Edited April 18, 2006 by Narachon

[bina]

dark anything is better in desert areas: arabian horses have black skins even if their fur is white or gray; white goats dont do well either (one of my goat kids is albina white w/pink grey eyes and he suffers from sunburn )although i do have dark goats with dark skin and blue eyes (cant figure out that one since they are all mixed breeds of three generations)...

my children have light hair and : brown eyes, yellow eyes and the youngest with the most skin allergies etc, has light blue/grey washed out eyes: she is lacking pigmentation in her eyes and suffers from the israeli sun (the combi of light skin and light hair -she's not albino- comes with skin and other allergies, according to the allergist):her vision is ok nothing special that i noticed

my father had green eyes an was born with blond hair which got darker as he got older ; his mother had galicia russian red hair and green eyes

my mother had brown eyes and dark hair but her mother had green eyes and again the galicia red hair (inbred russian jews)

i got hazel eyes verging on the greeny side

my ex has yellow eyes with blond/red hair just like his mother....

the blue of my daughter must have been in with the green somewhere.....

all european stock not meant to be in the desert....

my thai bf who desparately wants a baby with me has tried to figure out what skin colour and eye colour our baby would have since he is fascinated by my eye colour (he says they are like flowers since they are speckled colours of yellow green grey and brown): probably, darker skin then me, but brown eyes and dark brown hair since he doesnt have any of the other gene sets.... and his mother and father are dark dark thai as he is.... for sure the kid will be short since i am and and so is he.... also with allergies from both sides (darn!)

[autonomous_unit]

what does that mean?

In short does that say you dont really know?

Heh, one in every crowd isn't there...

It means nobody really knows. All this talk about genes and traits has to be taken with a big grain of salt: nobody can "read" some genes and tell you what shape nose the person will have, or even eye color I think. I think scientists who study the physiology of the eyes and skin can tell you exactly how the pigmentation works, but not exactly what all the genetic information is that affects production of those pigments.

All the recent research is into how certain gene sequences correlate to the production of certain chemicals at different points in the lifecycle of cells, etc. And yet there is a big blurry boundary between that and what these chemicals really do and how they are modulated over time. Psychiatrists know that you get certain effects when you dump certain chemicals into the bloodstream and they get into the brain, but nobody can tell you how an individual's mind works based on the chemicals in his brain and the neural connections. There is a HUGE gap between the bits and pieces of knowledge at the statistical level and at the low level of individual molecules.

Nobody is really even sure how much of our DNA is "junk" or not, where junk might be dormant stuff that is not being expressed or it might really be just filler between the important bits... bondo for the dents in our chromosomes.

The big map of human knowledge still has vast regions marked "There be dragons"... much moreso than people seem to like to admit.

[greenwanderer108]

Just thought I'd add a few offsite related articles/discussions for the informative value

Eurasian Invasion

Miss Norway Universe (Speaking of breedable beauties!! )

Once luuk kreung 30 year old girl's perspective

Thai halfies discussion

Still waiting for some of you enlightened expats to share photos of your mixed creations

[Master Chief]

what defines a real Thai race??

The thai race is a mix of Laotic, Cambodien, Chinese, Malay and Burmese races. They came from where and grew up to be what?

[Diablo Bob]

I have two daughters....

The oldest (9) has retained her Thai features with the exception of her hair, which is light brown and baby fine like mine. Her skin color is also substancially lighter than my wives.

The youngest (3) is totally different, she has white skin, but when she goes into the sun she tans as dark as her mother who is from Buriram. She does not burn like most caucasions. She has her Thai nose, but her eyes are caucasion in shape, the color is a light brown. Her hair is like her sisters, light brown and baby fine.

The disturbing trait is my youngest's english language. She sounds like she is from New York City! I am from California, I don't speak like that, neither does her older sister or mother!

Another trait which I can't explain is that both girls are described by some of our Thai friends as being so "Farang" in their outgoing personalities. They both have an inquistive nature, but this is more to their upbringing than anything else. In my opinion, both girls are perfect, both will drive me crazy when they hit their teens.

My wife and I have another on the way and we will find out what pops out in around 6 1/2 months.

Edited April 21, 2006 by Diablo Bob

[greenwanderer108]

I have two daughters....

The oldest (9) has retained her Thai features with the exception of her hair, which is light brown and baby fine like mine. Her skin color is also substancially lighter than my wives.

The youngest (3) is totally different, she has white skin, but when she goes into the sun she tans as dark as her mother who is from Buriram. She does not burn like most caucasions. She has her Thai nose, but her eyes are caucasion in shape, the color is a light brown. Her hair is like her sisters, light brown and baby fine.

The disturbing trait is my youngest's english language. She sounds like she is from New York City! I am from California, I don't speak like that, neither does her older sister or mother!

Another trait which I can't explain is that both girls are described by some of our Thai friends as being so "Farang" in their outgoing personalities. They both have an inquistive nature, but this is more to their upbringing than anything else. In my opinion, both girls are perfect, both will drive me crazy when they hit their teens.

My wife and I have another on the way and we will find out what pops out in around 6 1/2 months.

Congrats on your third one. Got your fingers crossed for a boy? I want to have 3 + kids too but am worried that I'll get all boys like my sister got. Some just luck out getting only boys or only girls...I think a mix would be more dynamic family feel.

Anyway, Diablo, got any pics of the two daughters? How about their European roots? German, English, Spanish, what???

Cheers

[Narachon]

The disturbing trait is my youngest's english language. She sounds like she is from New York City! I am from California, I don't speak like that, neither does her older sister or mother!

Ahem.....

There is absoulutely nothing wrong with sounding like you are from New York City.....

[greenwanderer108]

Now that we've got our exclusive family forum, some of you should be less shy and more open to posting your offspring's pictures...If not this thread, atleast post a new one...