Declaration Tourist Visa Application

[JLCrab]

I've just come from a round-about on the General Forum where I heard from many young non-Thais in their 20's and 30's who have come to Thailand many with under-the-radar internet related jobs to support themselves. They also speak of the buzz about doing multiple Tourist visa runs. There is often talk on this Visa forum about whether guys who are self-employed or work online need work permits but as they are not employed by any Thai company that cannot occur.

My question is this: On the Visa Application Form available from The Royal Thai Embassy in Washington DC, and most likely the same for others, it states the following:

Signature of Applicant: ______________________________

* ATTENTION FOR TOURISTS AND TRANSIT VISA APPLICANTS ONLY: You declare that the purpose of your visit to Thailand is for pleasure only and that in no case shall you engage yourself in any profession or occupation while in the country.

So if somebody would make the above declaration and it most certainly IS the case that they are engaging in 'any profession or occupation', have they not made a false statement to a government official acting in his/her Official Capacity? Maybe the Boys-in-Brown will see this someday as a big cash generator courtesy of the perpetual tourist crowd.

[harrry]

So they charge everyone who goes to Phucket and end up in a world of pain after a problem with a jet ski with making a false declaration as they were only supposed to have pleasure here not pain.

[ubonjoe]

Signing the form would be secondary if caught working. First would be for not having a work permit.

[JLCrab]

Sure -- but it is not easy to 'catch' somebody working online in their private residence without a work permit. However, with the declaration, it is right there on a piece of paper with the Passport details so there is a paper trail and sooner or later one has to exit the Kingdom for the next visa application.

[ubonjoe]

Sure -- but it is not easy to 'catch' somebody working online in their private residence without a work permit. However, with the declaration, it is right there on a piece of paper with the Passport details so there is a paper trail and sooner or later one has to exit the Kingdom for the next visa application.

Signing form and not being aware that working online here is considered working could be a good defense if charged for signing it.

How would the embassy or consulate know you were working when you apply for another visa. They would know that you have already had one or more visas as soon as they look at passport.

What the authorities here are concerned about is people working here and getting paid here with no proper documents.

[JLCrab]

Joe -- You must be thinking of some other country. The sheer number of Tourist visas and age of Visa holder is sufficient grounds for reasonable suspicion on the part on Immigration at a port of arrival and at that point -- since the Visa holder signed a declaration that their purpose for entering The Kingdom did not involve any profession or occupation -- the Visa holder might be put in the position of having to prove that they are NOT working and that the declaration is valid.

... and if you have noted some of the fines and potential prison sentences for working without a work permit it my well be worth the BiB's effort and with proper consideration they might let you go this time.

BTW the same approach via false declaration could work just as well for those as you say who are working here and getting paid here assuming they are using multiple tourist visas as their means for staying.

Edited August 20, 2013 by JLCrab

[ubonjoe]

I have suggested in many topics about getting tourist visas from nearby locations that they attach proof of funds coming from outside the country (bank book is best with FTT's) as proof you are not working here.

[JLCrab]

Providing proof of funds as you suggest when applying at an embassy or consulate makes it a MFA issue and my guess would be they couldn't be bothered in remote locations. But once you stand in front of an Immigration Police agent at a port of entry with a visa that you have obtained by making a false declaration to an official of the Royal Thai Government, then it becomes a whole 'nother matter and the visa holder might be put in the position of demonstrating the veracity of one's declaration to an officer on Thai soil rather than the police having to prove there was some malfeasance.

Edited August 20, 2013 by JLCrab

[Mario2008]

The purpose of that declaration is that you are aware that you are not allowed to work so can't say "I didn't know". It's pupose is not to let someone make a false statement so they can charge them. It is already a criminal offence to work without a work permit.

[JLCrab]

A false statement has been declared to a Thai government official -- that is the word used: declare. The word 'aware' does not appear on the form.

[ubonjoe]

Providing proof of funds as you suggest when applying at an embassy or consulate makes it a MFA issue and my guess would be they couldn't be bothered in remote locations. But once you stand in front of an Immigration Police agent at a port of entry with a visa that you have obtained by making a false declaration to an official of the Royal Thai Government, then it becomes  a whole 'nother matter and the visa holder might be put in the position of demonstrating the veracity of one's declaration to an officer on Thai soil rather than the police having to prove there was some malfeasance.

The chances of being questioned by immigration on arrival is very small.

They can ask for proof of funds when you enter but that again is unlikely.

Just showing money from outside Thailand would work in either case.

[JLCrab]

Is that your opinion or do you speak for the Royal Thai Immigration Police? If it became their policy to question persons on multiple tourist visas to see what their explanation might be to corroborate their declaration as in no case engaging in any occupation or profession, then chances might go otherwise.

Police in many jurisdictions and for many purposes go by body language when they ask questions and sense that someone is not able to give straight answers to their questions.

This is from the Thailand Revenue code:

Section 37 A person;

(1) intentionally notifies false statement or gives false statement or answers with a false statement or shows false evidence in order to evade taxes under this Title, or

(2) with faulty facts, fraudulent, artifice or other similar nature, evades or attempts to evade tax under this Title,

shall be subject to an imprisonment from 3 months to 7 years and penalty from 2,000 Baht to 200,000 Baht.

Under The Alien Working Act 2551, working without a work permit carries similar penalties -- so why would declaring a false statement to a Government Official in writing and with signature be a whole lot different?

Edited August 20, 2013 by JLCrab

[harrry]

There is a monetary requirement under regulation for entry on a tourist visa. It is round 20000baht.

[JLCrab]

This from Phuket Gazette 11 AUG 2013 comments of the Honorary Italian Consul of Italy:

However, we often hear about Italians working without a work permit and living in the Kingdom after their permit-to-stay has expired. I would like the police and relevant government organizations to be strict on checking and arresting expats who illegally work and live in Thailand. We are very willing to support the authorities in this matter.

http://www.phuketgazette.net/phuket_news/2013/Phuket-Opinion-Italy-s-Honorary-Consul-respect-and-enforce-laws-21913.html

So either they can organize 'visits' to various spots that might employ such Italian citizens and ask for documents of those who might happen be present when such visits occur or the Immigration Police might become more diligent upon entry to ask to for corroboration of the declaration that the multiple-tourist visa holder engage in no occupation or profession while visiting The Kingdom.

Edited August 20, 2013 by JLCrab

[lopburi3]

Flame removed.