30 year leases on house? Can you share your experience?

[mikey88]

Hi...can anyone with direct experience of taking out a 30 year lease on a house please help me.

If you are interested in sharing your experience I would be most grateful. The solicitor you recommend, the price arrangements...how it is paid etc would all be helpful. I will try to reciprocate wherever possible. I know everybody has an opinion and they often want to share it on forums like this....but please...if I could just keep it focussed on people who have actually done the lease arrangement I'd be very happy.

Old Mike.

[Oscar2]

whatever you do........don't do it! why would you even consider it?

[Dante99]

A straight 30 year lease of a property owned by a non-related party would/should be done differently from a 30 year lease of a property owned by a related party including someone to whom you provide money for the purchase or construction of the house. Attempting to discuss both of these on one thread will be chaotic at best.

[mikey88]

Thank you...I should have been more specific. I'm talking about a 30 year lease to a non related personal friend to whom I may consider helping buy the property via a gift.

Old Mike

[jonwilly]

i considered buying a house and a 30 year lease was legal according to my Thai Lawyer.

Altho I was not of the opinion I would live for another 30 I was concerned that at 29 year point I would be in a predicament if still in reasonable health.

My lawyer suggested two thirty year leases back to back, legal but she was not happy about me leasing for such a long time. (Buy a Condo the Government says you own it)

I was going to buy the land in a Thai friends name and my lawyer had drawn up a Legal agreement which he signed that gave me the two leases.

She arranged the paperwork so that I paid about 1/4 for first 30 year and 3/4 for second 30.

The deal fell through for other reasons and the company building the Mooban gave me back my non refundable deposite, decent people.

Several months later a UK Lawyer writing in the Expat newsletter stated that in his opinion for a multi 30 year lease to be legal then the property would have to revert for at lease 24 hrs to original land owner

so perhaps I was saved due to a dispute.

john

[Thailand]

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/forum/59-real-estate-housing-house-and-land-ownership/

[JLCrab]

If there is a 'gift' involved then it cannot be considered a non-related person.

Any time a non-Thai makes a 'gift' to a Thai who then purchase property at least in part with that gift and then leases the property back to the same non-Thai who made the gift there is an element of quid pro quo

Edited August 21, 2013 by JLCrab

[Dante99]

Sent you a PM.

[Trujillo]

Have a usufruct agreement ready and signed (between you and the Thai buyer -- who is funding the land purchase with your money), before the land sale. When the papers for the sale to the Thai are filed, the usufruct is filed at the same time. You will own the rights to control the land for your lifetime and although the owner could sell the land, the new owner would be subject to the usufruct and could not occupy or otherwise control the use of the land during your lifetime.

How does that suit you?

[elektrified]

You will own the rights to control the land for your lifetime and although the owner could sell the land, the new owner would be subject to the usufruct and could not occupy or otherwise control the use of the land during your lifetime.

Rubbish.

[FredLee]

You will own the rights to control the land for your lifetime and although the owner could sell the land, the new owner would be subject to the usufruct and could not occupy or otherwise control the use of the land during your lifetime.

Rubbish.

And exactly why is this rubbish?

[Thighlander]

If they find you gave the money to someone to buy a house.......that's illegal. I used a lawyer, did a loan agreement, a 30 year lease, and a will. Worked for me, but it is still a grey area. They continually threaten to scrutinize all nominee agreements. You will also pay a 1% tax on the whole lease amount. So of course you want it to be low, but if it is too low, they will raise the red flag. We tried to say a total of 300,000 for 30 years, and had to raise it to 500,000. We sold in 2008, and I would never, ever do it again. I will buy a condo, after and when, the market collapses. The ones I see going for 2 million will go for about 700,000 after a big down-turn. The Thais can be worse than African Americans, when it comes to neighbors. Horrible pet owners.....and I'm not a regular Thai basher, but I take my investments very seriously. Try to make a complaint, and you will be the one in trouble.

[anto]

>>Have a usufruct agreement ready and signed (between you and the Thai buyer -- who is funding the land purchase with your money), before the land sale. When the papers for the sale to the Thai are filed, the usufruct is filed at the same time.<<

Em ,except for the fact that you can not do it at the same time .You have to wait at least one week after the house purchase .My experience is with buying two house ,one in SanSai and one in Doi Saket .

Why do people give such totally wrong information about something so important to others ?

[Bpuumike]

Have sent you a PM.

[prism]

>>Have a usufruct agreement ready and signed (between you and the Thai buyer -- who is funding the land purchase with your money), before the land sale. When the papers for the sale to the Thai are filed, the usufruct is filed at the same time.<<

Em ,except for the fact that you can not do it at the same time .You have to wait at least one week after the house purchase .My experience is with buying two house ,one in SanSai and one in Doi Saket .

Why do people give such totally wrong information about something so important to others ?

Did mine at the same time, just checked my documents. This was 5 years ago though.

[anto]

>>Have a usufruct agreement ready and signed (between you and the Thai buyer -- who is funding the land purchase with your money), before the land sale. When the papers for the sale to the Thai are filed, the usufruct is filed at the same time.<<

Em ,except for the fact that you can not do it at the same time .You have to wait at least one week after the house purchase .My experience is with buying two house ,one in SanSai and one in Doi Saket .

Why do people give such totally wrong information about something so important to others ?

Did mine at the same time, just checked my documents. This was 5 years ago though.

And which land office ?..there are many around Chiang Mai .BTW ,my experiences were from 3 years ago .

Edited August 24, 2013 by anto

[Thighlander]

That's a good point. Different policies at different land offices, according to my lawyer. One was a breeze, while others not so much. 1000 THB seemed to get things off on the right foot.

[neilrob]

You will own the rights to control the land for your lifetime and although the owner could sell the land, the new owner would be subject to the usufruct and could not occupy or otherwise control the use of the land during your lifetime.

Rubbish.

I find it difficult to understand the motive for a post such as this by Elektrified. Why do people who know nothing still have an urge to post? Strange. The original post by Trujillo that a usufruct can give you these rights was correct, on topic and helpful. The response by Electrified was none of these things.

[hml367]

Have a usufruct agreement ready and signed (between you and the Thai buyer -- who is funding the land purchase with your money), before the land sale. When the papers for the sale to the Thai are filed, the usufruct is filed at the same time. You will own the rights to control the land for your lifetime and although the owner could sell the land, the new owner would be subject to the usufruct and could not occupy or otherwise control the use of the land during your lifetime.

How does that suit you?

This is from a legal company site in Thailand. I had heard that usufruct did not give the same rights as a lease as far as what you could do with the property. Maybe that has to do with "control"? (as long as the property is not altered....)

A Usufruct provides temporary ownership rights and is a legal right for the use and enjoyment of the profits and advantages of property belonging to another as long as the property is not damaged or altered in any way. The usufructuary must also keep the property intact and returned in the same position that it was when the usufruct was granted. A usufruct may be created either for a period of time (not exceeding 30 years) or for the life of the usufructuary.

[timewilltell]

Problem with leases, they can be cancelled. It may be fraud but not easy to garner the support of the Thai justice to help you. You want to own a property you want to do anything to with the support of the justice system then you are pretty much stumped.

Property leases are just hire contracts with the force of law akin to hiring a bike. It is just not really a proper law to handle such serious investments. Back to back leases - the second cannot be registered and is only enforceable in the civil court if the lessor decides not o follow through.

Property prices seem to be hyped at the moment - why not rent long term to amortize your deposit ( because Thais will rarely return it and are very inventive as to reasons why plus some will demand you leave any fixtures like air con)

It is high time Thailand tackled providing some properly drafted property laws for foreign ownership in whatever form that may take. Unfortunately these matters garner no international pressure despite the huge human suffering caused to many people losing their life (savings). Thais could not give a spit for foreigners so they and their families will remain in limbo with no support from anyone really.

I do wish you luck - more than the several people I know who have had nothing but bad luck in these matters.

[elektrified]

You will own the rights to control the land for your lifetime and although the owner could sell the land, the new owner would be subject to the usufruct and could not occupy or otherwise control the use of the land during your lifetime.

Rubbish.

I find it difficult to understand the motive for a post such as this by Elektrified. Why do people who know nothing still have an urge to post? Strange. The original post by Trujillo that a usufruct can give you these rights was correct, on topic and helpful. The response by Electrified was none of these things.

Because what was posted is not true.

[prism]

>>Have a usufruct agreement ready and signed (between you and the Thai buyer -- who is funding the land purchase with your money), before the land sale. When the papers for the sale to the Thai are filed, the usufruct is filed at the same time.<<

Em ,except for the fact that you can not do it at the same time .You have to wait at least one week after the house purchase .My experience is with buying two house ,one in SanSai and one in Doi Saket .

Why do people give such totally wrong information about something so important to others ?

Did mine at the same time, just checked my documents. This was 5 years ago though.

And which land office ?..there are many around Chiang Mai .BTW ,my experiences were from 3 years ago .

San Sai office. Had a lawyer draw up the contract and an assistant of his accompanied us to the land office, worth the few extra baht.

[anto]

>>Have a usufruct agreement ready and signed (between you and the Thai buyer -- who is funding the land purchase with your money), before the land sale. When the papers for the sale to the Thai are filed, the usufruct is filed at the same time.<<

Em ,except for the fact that you can not do it at the same time .You have to wait at least one week after the house purchase .My experience is with buying two house ,one in SanSai and one in Doi Saket .

Why do people give such totally wrong information about something so important to others ?

Did mine at the same time, just checked my documents. This was 5 years ago though.

And which land office ?..there are many around Chiang Mai .BTW ,my experiences were from 3 years ago .

San Sai office. Had a lawyer draw up the contract and an assistant of his accompanied us to the land office, worth the few extra baht.

Had the same ,a Lawyer and the assistant at the Land office .I was told the lease /Usufruct could not be done the same day .Had to wait 2 weeks ,i just checked the dates .This was SanSai Land office on the MaeJoe road ( 1001 )