Moving to chiang mai

[Garryladouceur]

I am a newbie... Dont be cruel.

After 4 years of retirement in Mexico, we want to move. Statistically speaking, i am due to be shot any day now living as i am in Michoacan. Mainly however, i am tired of tacos and since the government has stopped working and a new battalion has moved into town, the economy which depended a lot on banditos, has crashed while the number of shootings has gone up...

And i cant get broadband although my neighbours all have it. 4g was suppose to come last year. Still waiting. So moving time.

Being retired, my object in life is to spend every single peso I have on my retirement. I consider it a failure if, at the end of the month, i have a single centavo in my bank account.

This means that beside my trips home and holidays, fortunately my wife does not subscribe to my life philosophy which i call my. Magic ATM view, we still have our house in europe and we still manage to go home. Anyway this means that I want to spend the 50000 pesos (121,972 thai baht). we spend here in Mexico in Chiang Mai. In mexico this got me a modest house with a live out maid, a gardener, a car that works every other tuesday and no holidays or going out much. And as i said, not much in the way of internet since i tried to live downtown but the pollution and the bandas and the dogs on the roof and having two policemn shot down on my doorstep, one rang the bell as he slid down the wall...honest.. We moved to a gated community which had i known, belongs to one of the families that supported the previous state governor so hope of getting the water for the golf course, or internet or cable are far fetched.

So, i would like a modest house, a maid, a gardener, no pool which breeds mosquitoes a car or driver and internt that works. I dont drink,got me in trouble, hate water and am married for a zillion years and want to keep it that way. We are in our fifties, anti social yet speak five languages.

Any ideas? No mean things now. I am being fully honest here.

[CMSteve]

I think you will love it here in Chiang Mai. Your money will go much further and the general pace of life is good as well. Thailand just got 3G and we do no expect 4G until the western countries are minimally using 5 or 6G! But hardwired aDSL and Cable internet to the home is getting better very very quickly.

Please bring us some of those tacos and chocolate when you move!

[jazzed]

It is difficult to answer your question "any ideas?" What is it exactly that you wish to know?

I can immediately say though that you can live very comfortably (and get decent internet connection) on 120,000 Baht.

You would know that -- and find out many more useful things -- if you bother to look through previous posts. I myself have been planning to transition to Chiang Mai and find the Thaivisa forum members generous and helpful. I am amazed at the number of newcomers who ask the same basic questions "where should I rent?" .... "How much should I budget for xxxx?" .... Some key words in the search box on top will bring up many previous discussions.

You ask forum members to be kind. May I humbly suggest that you treat them with the same consideration. It will also serve you better to inform yourself through reading those previous discussions....then asking more specific questions.

[Garryladouceur]

Oh oh first answere here was cruel and this 36 years after the death of. Elvis,,,..... Oh well i will have to try another forum to ask my simplistic questions

[trainman34014]

OP; would suggest you visit Chiang Mai first with your wife and stay a while to get the feel of it before jumping in at the deep end. Not easy from Mexico i know but, Thailand suits some of us for varying reasons but it doesn't suit everyone and i've known a few who have come and gone without ever being happy here.

Plenty of reasonably cheap property to rent here, especially 10 klicks or so out of town, gardeners no problem but 'maids' can be more difficult. Cleaner girls are around in reasonable numbers and after some filtering you may get a decent one. Houses with swimming pools are rarer but many 'Moo Baan's' of modern houses have community swimming pools that are empty a lot of the time in my experience; only busy in school holidays.

You can own your own car or motorbike here so no real need for a driver unless you're fearful of driving on Thailand's roads. The road systems here are not too bad but Thai's driving skills leave a lot to be desired, so you have to be alert and have your 100% concentration head on at all times.

No problem with your budget i would think; you may even be able to please your Mrs and save a bit each month !

[Garryladouceur]

OP; would suggest you visit Chiang Mai first with your wife and stay a while to get the feel of it before jumping in at the deep end. Not easy from Mexico i know but, Thailand suits some of us for varying reasons but it doesn't suit everyone and i've known a few who have come and gone without ever being happy here.

Plenty of reasonably cheap property to rent here, especially 10 klicks or so out of town, gardeners no problem but 'maids' can be more difficult. Cleaner girls are around in reasonable numbers and after some filtering you may get a decent one. Houses with swimming pools are rarer but many 'Moo Baan's' of modern houses have community swimming pools that are empty a lot of the time in my experience; only busy in school holidays.

You can own your own car or motorbike here so no real need for a driver unless you're fearful of driving on Thailand's roads. The road systems here are not too bad but Thai's driving skills leave a lot to be desired, so you have to be alert and have your 100% concentration head on at all times.

No problem with your budget i would think; you may even be able to please your Mrs and save a bit each month !

Thanks mr. Trainman,

I am heading down next month or so once i figure out a flight or get myself a biometric passport since i left switzerland with the old passport. The us seems to require these now. And from mexico city to thailand requires a stop in America.

So perhaps go via London or something like that.

I found a serviced apartment for the short trip in what you call the Old City I think called the Frangiapani. I was planning on staying there a month. If i acclimatize in that period i will make a decision about what to tell the wife. Please, nothing about saving within earshot of the missus. She has half accepted my philosophy....

[LawrenceChee]

You will enjoy the service apartment frangipani ...I stayed there for a week when I first came and is nice

A good choice to start at a service apartment while you explore the city

At a budget of 120k you will have a very good standard of living here in Chiang Mai and make adjustments upwards or downward later when you get a good feel of the city, the good choices available and your dietary preferences

There is a good international vibe here with good restaurants and supermarkets and I am sure you will enjoy this place much better than Mexico

I was there for a month once and I felt like I was living on certain parts of cowboy town in Malaysia

Peaceful surroundings is underrated

[roger1999]

If you plan to stay a month perhaps change the hotel every week or so. That's an easy way to get to know different parts of town.

[trainman34014]

OP; would suggest you visit Chiang Mai first with your wife and stay a while to get the feel of it before jumping in at the deep end. Not easy from Mexico i know but, Thailand suits some of us for varying reasons but it doesn't suit everyone and i've known a few who have come and gone without ever being happy here.

Plenty of reasonably cheap property to rent here, especially 10 klicks or so out of town, gardeners no problem but 'maids' can be more difficult. Cleaner girls are around in reasonable numbers and after some filtering you may get a decent one. Houses with swimming pools are rarer but many 'Moo Baan's' of modern houses have community swimming pools that are empty a lot of the time in my experience; only busy in school holidays.

You can own your own car or motorbike here so no real need for a driver unless you're fearful of driving on Thailand's roads. The road systems here are not too bad but Thai's driving skills leave a lot to be desired, so you have to be alert and have your 100% concentration head on at all times.

No problem with your budget i would think; you may even be able to please your Mrs and save a bit each month !

Thanks mr. Trainman,

I am heading down next month or so once i figure out a flight or get myself a biometric passport since i left switzerland with the old passport. The us seems to require these now. And from mexico city to thailand requires a stop in America.

So perhaps go via London or something like that.

I found a serviced apartment for the short trip in what you call the Old City I think called the Frangiapani. I was planning on staying there a month. If i acclimatize in that period i will make a decision about what to tell the wife. Please, nothing about saving within earshot of the missus. She has half accepted my philosophy....

Well; if your married to her for another zillion years or so she may come to accept your financial philosophy completely !

You've picked the right place to start your adventure in CM but do rent a car or motorbike to explore the outer area's as there is a lot of natural beauty in the vicinity and also many gated community's where you will find houses for rent that will probably be to your liking, particularly to the South of the City.

Everyone has their own way and i know it's really none of my business but, as you are considering living here would it not have been wise to bring the Mrs with you to see if she likes it ? Or perhaps if you like it you will bring her to see things later ? Worst case scenario is you love it and she hates it, sure recipe for a bad start to life in Thailand !

[junglechef]

Having spent a bit of time in Mexico and Latin America in general Thailand is quite different and I found the mindset of here very different that the Americas meaning that Mexico is much more like the US than here. So one might want to spend sometime here to see if they like it as for many it just doesn't click. Those individuals live a frustrated and stressed out life here in the land of smiles as they can't adapt or don't want to because they just don't care for it.

That being said from the little you've said and less that I know you (not at all) I get the impression that you might like it better outside the city. I and other expats I know who are in the similar age group as you live a bit north of CM city in housing developments and not and really like it.

[F4UCorsair]

If your mind isn't set on Chiang Mai/Thailand, you could also explore Malaysia. They've had a project called 'Malaysia, My Second Home - MM2H' running for years. Just google it.

I like CM a lot, and still hope to move there before too long, but I guess we all look for different things.

Regarding the budget, you'll do it well in CM on B120K a month.

As somebody else pointed out, Mexico is a lot like the US, and for that reason it may be worth exploring the possibility of the Philippines who also have a retirement program for foreigners. Check this site www.dumagueteinfo.com There will be many other sites, but Dumaguete seems like a pretty place, geared to foreigners taking up residence. Boracay is another seaside place, but if you fancy a cool climate, try Baguio.

Edited August 22, 2013 by F4UCorsair

[Xonax]

Why doesn´t anyone mention the yearly problem with smoke from the massive burnings?

Me and my Mrs. love to visit Chiang Mai as often as possible, but the yearly smoke season, is keeping us away from actually moving to stay there permanently.

[chrisartist]

Okay, point taken: living in Mexico leaves something to be desired.

In Thailand, outside urban Bangkok, you can expect the following:

----two-storey detached house with garden in a gated community (moo baan) for from 8,000-40,000 Baht; what you live in is up to you, anything over 20,000 is very nice indeed. I pay 16,000 for a very well-furnished, clean house with air conditioning in which everything works.

----live-out maid for from 8,000 a month, with one day off a week (minimum wage 300 baht per day)

----121,972 baht per month is enough for going out pretty much whenever you like, plus holidays if you want them.

----working wireless internet for 671 Baht per month

----probably a swimming pool and driving range nearby; golf is stretching it a bit, because in Thailand it's a snooty sport and a round is expensive

----I don't hold with cars because they waste oil; I ride a bicycle or take the bus. A bus ride costs from 10-80 baht, depending on how far you travel. Buying a car is expensive, but you can get second-hand ones fairly cheaply

So, from the points of view of finance and convenience, Thailand may well suit you just fine.

Chiang Mai is a different story:

----Unless you go to a bar, where the girls will be friendly because want you to give them money for various things (they wouldn't be working at night unless this were true), people in Chiang Mai are not friendly. In general, in Thailand, the social structure works like this: first, family; second friends; third, people you work with; fourth, people you bump into in your street; fifth, everybody else, in decreasing order of smiling and compassion/concern. You will find it hard to break into the community unless you are working, so you may well not make many friends. This goes *double* for Chiang Mai. I live in a suburb of Chiang mai and it's the most unfriendly place I've ever lived

----For four months of the year, Chiang Mai is covered in a poisonous haze that is caused by locals burning vegetation so they can plant crops. Over a matter of years, there is a cumulative effect. Now, I have to wear a gas mask when the haze comes. if I don't I have to go to the hospital

----In general, I find Chiang Mai people to be less intelligent than their southern cousins in the capital. I surmise that this is true across northern Thailand. I speak to people in both Thai and English and they understand what I'm trying to explain in neither. This failure of communication occurs when the run-of-the-mill Thais are presented with a situation that lies outside their usual, very narrow, way of thinking.

----If you go into the city centre and try to get home, you will be riped off by tuk-tuk drivers. You can get into the city centre for 10 baht on a bus or 40-60 baht in a songtaew or 150 Baht in a tuk-tuk. After 7pm there are no buses, a songtaew is unlikely to want to go, and teh tuk-tuk drivers want 250-300 Baht.

----If you try to cross the road at a pedestrian crossing, the locals will try to run you over (sometimes they speed up once you have set foot on the crossing). You have to wait until there are no cars before you attempt to cross

----Try to get a maid from Burma, because a large percentage of Thai maids think that what's yours is theirs.

I like my particular culdesac in Chiang Mai (nice and quiet) and the house I live in, and I have an honest, hard-working maid (I am lucky in that respect). If I venture further afield, the problems start.

So perhaps Chiang Mai is not the best solution. Rayong, on the eastern seaboard, south of Bangkok, is okay, as are various places in central and north-east Thailand. Have a look on the map, then look places up in the guide books.

[KRS1]

If you have 121,972 baht per month which you wish to spend in completion every month, just dive right on in, its funner that way.

Do you really need to live in a house or will a large comfortable condo do? Better security, no yard to maintain etc...

If youd like to take a short walk for breakfast, lunch and dinner everyday go to Nimanheimin road (there are houses and condos). Every type of food for every day of the week is possible there as well as good wines.(a glass of wine now and then doesnt hurt)...for a retired couple, its a good area to burn money for convenience and quality lifestyle. Empire Residence and Kantary Hotel come to mind.

If you want to stay married for another gazillion years dont go to Loy Kroh road.

If you really want to live secluded and alone, there are many neighborhoods to choose from. But it is convenient to live near a grocery store.

Budget 25-35k baht for a nice large house (or townhouse) with a reasonable vicinity to the city (12k-18k for a smaller one). 15k baht for an older mid sized house. 15k baht for a house slightly further but a bit newer....and 8k baht to live away from everything in a small two bedroom with outdoor kitchen.

[bobmac10]

OP; would suggest you visit Chiang Mai first with your wife and stay a while to get the feel of it before jumping in at the deep end. Not easy from Mexico i know but, Thailand suits some of us for varying reasons but it doesn't suit everyone and i've known a few who have come and gone without ever being happy here.

Plenty of reasonably cheap property to rent here, especially 10 klicks or so out of town, gardeners no problem but 'maids' can be more difficult. Cleaner girls are around in reasonable numbers and after some filtering you may get a decent one. Houses with swimming pools are rarer but many 'Moo Baan's' of modern houses have community swimming pools that are empty a lot of the time in my experience; only busy in school holidays.

You can own your own car or motorbike here so no real need for a driver unless you're fearful of driving on Thailand's roads. The road systems here are not too bad but Thai's driving skills leave a lot to be desired, so you have to be alert and have your 100% concentration head on at all times.

No problem with your budget i would think; you may even be able to please your Mrs and save a bit each month !

If you have a respiratory illness you might like to come here in the dry season. The annual burning season is getting worse every year and some days it really makes you gag when you are walking outside. The traffic is getting worse, the diesel "song tows" are never serviced and belch black smoke, the 2 stroke tuk tuks belch white smoke and this all adds up to a very potent mixture. i suggest you check it out first or live out of town a bit.

[abrahamzvi]

Having spent a bit of time in Mexico and Latin America in general Thailand is quite different and I found the mindset of here very different that the Americas meaning that Mexico is much more like the US than here. So one might want to spend sometime here to see if they like it as for many it just doesn't click. Those individuals live a frustrated and stressed out life here in the land of smiles as they can't adapt or don't want to because they just don't care for it.

That being said from the little you've said and less that I know you (not at all) I get the impression that you might like it better outside the city. I and other expats I know who are in the similar age group as you live a bit north of CM city in housing developments and not and really like it.

Having lived in both the US and Mexico, as an expatriate (I am a German), and in another town in Thailand, I entirely agree with junglechef. However, I think that before you definitely settle down in one part or the other of Chiang Mai, i would suggest that you rent an apartment for a month or so and have a good look around. From what you tell us about yourself and your wife, I am sure you will enjoy living here in Chiang Mai and Baht 120,000 p.m. will make your life here pretty comfortable. Good luck!!!

[Just1Voice]

Okay, point taken: living in Mexico leaves something to be desired.

In Thailand, outside urban Bangkok, you can expect the following:

----two-storey detached house with garden in a gated community (moo baan) for from 8,000-40,000 Baht; what you live in is up to you, anything over 20,000 is very nice indeed. I pay 16,000 for a very well-furnished, clean house with air conditioning in which everything works.

----live-out maid for from 8,000 a month, with one day off a week (minimum wage 300 baht per day)

----121,972 baht per month is enough for going out pretty much whenever you like, plus holidays if you want them.

----working wireless internet for 671 Baht per month

----probably a swimming pool and driving range nearby; golf is stretching it a bit, because in Thailand it's a snooty sport and a round is expensive

----I don't hold with cars because they waste oil; I ride a bicycle or take the bus. A bus ride costs from 10-80 baht, depending on how far you travel. Buying a car is expensive, but you can get second-hand ones fairly cheaply

So, from the points of view of finance and convenience, Thailand may well suit you just fine.

Chiang Mai is a different story:

----Unless you go to a bar, where the girls will be friendly because want you to give them money for various things (they wouldn't be working at night unless this were true), people in Chiang Mai are not friendly. In general, in Thailand, the social structure works like this: first, family; second friends; third, people you work with; fourth, people you bump into in your street; fifth, everybody else, in decreasing order of smiling and compassion/concern. You will find it hard to break into the community unless you are working, so you may well not make many friends. This goes *double* for Chiang Mai. I live in a suburb of Chiang mai and it's the most unfriendly place I've ever lived

----For four months of the year, Chiang Mai is covered in a poisonous haze that is caused by locals burning vegetation so they can plant crops. Over a matter of years, there is a cumulative effect. Now, I have to wear a gas mask when the haze comes. if I don't I have to go to the hospital

----In general, I find Chiang Mai people to be less intelligent than their southern cousins in the capital. I surmise that this is true across northern Thailand. I speak to people in both Thai and English and they understand what I'm trying to explain in neither. This failure of communication occurs when the run-of-the-mill Thais are presented with a situation that lies outside their usual, very narrow, way of thinking.

----If you go into the city centre and try to get home, you will be riped off by tuk-tuk drivers. You can get into the city centre for 10 baht on a bus or 40-60 baht in a songtaew or 150 Baht in a tuk-tuk. After 7pm there are no buses, a songtaew is unlikely to want to go, and teh tuk-tuk drivers want 250-300 Baht.

----If you try to cross the road at a pedestrian crossing, the locals will try to run you over (sometimes they speed up once you have set foot on the crossing). You have to wait until there are no cars before you attempt to cross

----Try to get a maid from Burma, because a large percentage of Thai maids think that what's yours is theirs.

I like my particular culdesac in Chiang Mai (nice and quiet) and the house I live in, and I have an honest, hard-working maid (I am lucky in that respect). If I venture further afield, the problems start.

So perhaps Chiang Mai is not the best solution. Rayong, on the eastern seaboard, south of Bangkok, is okay, as are various places in central and north-east Thailand. Have a look on the map, then look places up in the guide books.

I'm not sure what Chaing Mai you are living in, but it sure isn't the one I live in. About the only think you said in your caustic rant that I half way agree with is the smoke problem from burning, and unless you have a different calendar than the rest of us, or different time set on your watch, it's only about TWO months of the year, not four. Twice in 5 years, for different reasons, I've had to take a tuk-tuk to get home from Kad Suan Kaew. I live 18 klm east of the city. Cost? 150 baht both times.

Pedestrian crossings can be a bit nervy at times, but those with the stoplights usually work well for getting traffic to stop.

In reading your post, the only thing I can come up with is that you have a sour disposition and attitude, and a major chip on your shoulder for some reason, which is transmitted to the Thai you encounter. The only thing I'm wondering is why, if you are SO UNHAPPY here, are you still here? Why don't you take your own advice and move to Rayong, or one of the other cities?

[super22k]

What an entertaining post garryladouceur. Maybe,you should take up writing when you come to Chiang Mai. Talking about writing, there are many second hand bookshops for Expats in Chiang Mai but I have never,and I mean never, seen a Thai reading a book,or for that matter a magazine or even a newspaper in public. I have seen one or two people reading these picture books but that only means they need a picture to help them read,even in Thai.

Maybe,they prefer television or the internet.I once saw a bargirl trying to impress an expat customer by reading a London newspaper. No one told her she was reading it upside down. Enjoy Chiang Mai, Garryladouceur.

[trainman34014]

Some real sour grapes coming out here but can't say i'm surprised when there appears to be so many miserable git Farang's around CM that seem to find it a struggle to smile. Dare you say 'HI' or 'Hello' they look at you like you are some kind of sub-human ! Very sad way to carry on.

In contrast to the many negative views that have been aired i have always found the Thai people in these parts to be mainly friendly, and they can also be very helpful at difficult times too. I think it's mainly a case of your own attitude towards others and if you have a happy and open disposition you will draw the right kind of reaction.

As for the Smog season; i guess if you live in town or thereabouts it can be pretty overwhelming some years but, out in the boonies things are not half as bad generally. Never had a problem with it in my six years of experience here.

[sfokevin]

I would also recommend you do a weekend trip to Pai ;-)...

[wolf5370]

120+k you are laughing - this is a good wedge of money to live up here very comfortably. Where depends on whether you like it busy or quiet (a short ride out of town and its a whole different world or rice paddies and mountain views. Expats are generally very friendly up here, the community is small enough that after a while you will probably meet the same people again and again. Good northern food too (even can get tacos lol - not like what you're used to though I'd expect!). As said, in March the burning goes on (they say they are going to clamp down on it every year) - but as that is cool season, a few weeks in the south by the sea is good (or match it up with trip back home if preferred - me, I live in the South of the city and its no so bad as it is flatter and more open - was bad this year though!).

As said, spend you time in the apartments to look around gated communities (if you want to live outside the city proper - and as you asked about a gardener, probably do). Don't worry about pools, moo bahns (gated communities) often have them and then its they that clean them (no mozzie worried though as they are chlorinated). Thais tend to put little fish in pots and tiny ponds to eat the mozzie larvae - you see them everywhere (guppies). Thais are generally friendly and helpful too - they are quite good at working people out it seems to me - aggressive/rude people are ignored (at best), friendly courteous and smiling (and smartly dressed) people are helped and earn a 'hello' smile each time. Scams are less frequent up here too - not that you should trust anyone any more than you do back in Mexico (including fellow westerners).

Thai lessons are available all over - cheapest good group lessons at the YMCA.

[MESmith]

As for the Smog season; i guess if you live in town or thereabouts it can be pretty overwhelming some years but, out in the boonies things are not half as bad generally. Never had a problem with it in my six years of experience here.

Out in the countryside is where it's worst. Burning every day for several months. Those in the city wont notice it outside the smog season. Living out of town it's terrible. Can't sit outside in the garden, can't leave the windows open at night to let the cool air in. What parallel universe do you live in?

[Ulysses G.]

Some real sour grapes coming out here but can't say i'm surprised when there appears to be so many miserable git Farang's around CM that seem to find it a struggle to smile. Dare you say 'HI' or 'Hello' they look at you like you are some kind of sub-human ! Very sad way to carry on.

In contrast to the many negative views that have been aired i have always found the Thai people in these parts to be mainly friendly, and they can also be very helpful at difficult times too. I think it's mainly a case of your own attitude towards others and if you have a happy and open disposition you will draw the right kind of reaction.

As for the Smog season; i guess if you live in town or thereabouts it can be pretty overwhelming some years but, out in the boonies things are not half as bad generally. Never had a problem with it in my six years of experience here.

Good post. I find Chiang Mai Thais very friendly in general. As far as the smokey season goes, it bothers some people and not others. I live right in town and hardly ever think about it until I read about it on Thai Visa.

[wolf5370]

As for the Smog season; i guess if you live in town or thereabouts it can be pretty overwhelming some years but, out in the boonies things are not half as bad generally. Never had a problem with it in my six years of experience here.

Out in the countryside is where it's worst. Burning every day for several months. Those in the city wont notice it outside the smog season. Living out of town it's terrible. Can't sit outside in the garden, can't leave the windows open at night to let the cool air in. What parallel universe do you live in?

I guess it depends where out of town you are - this year was bad, but for the last half a decade I've lived south, it is generally not too bad - I guess it is to do with the wind and general flatness near my way - the north I think may be worse because the mountains trap it in more (a lot of the burning is on the mountains too). The city I find often pretty bad anyway - but that's car fumes!

[sfokevin]

This thread reminds me of the old parable of two villages...

A man who was traveling came upon a farmer working in his field and asked him what the people in the next village were like. The farmer asked "What were the people like in the last village you visited?". The man responded "They were kind, friendly, generous, great people." "You'll find the people in the next village are the same." said the farmer.

Another man who was traveling to the same village came up to the same farmer somewhat later and asked him what the people in the next village were like. Again the farmer asked "What were the people like in the last village you visited?". The second man responded "They were rude, unfriendly, dishonest people.". "You'll find the people in the next village are the same." said the farmer.

[Garryladouceur]

I suspect our times are backwards, i.e. if I dug a hole deep enough here in Mexico I could end up popping up in Chiang Mai. No fear however. I took the advice of a responder, who was mean, and went over many many posts here.... A massive site and am even more confused.

In the main responders to me, an OP, presumably that does not mean old person although at 59 I might qualify, have been kind and helpful and make me want to consider some other place other than Chiang Mai to be frank.

We thought of Malaysia but my wife does not agree with some elements of the Muslim faith relating to the role of women. I try to explain to her that her faith is just as bad but she says she does not support the elements relating to that as well and besides these elements are not part of state policy... And then the fight starts and i get to sleep on the couch. So, in the end Malaysia is out....

I am bothered by this issue of smoke. Perhaps it is not bad all year, but we want to be in thailand in the European winters, i.e. october to may. I was born Canadian so summer there is sometimes in August....

Isvthe smoke worse or better in that period?

I dont speak Thai and it seems that might help, so I am prepared to learn. But learn Burmese to get help for the house? Is it legal to hire Burmese people?

Another issue relates to health care.... I read that health care is good there but how do the facilities and skills relate say to a Swiss Hospital? Sanitation?

Finally for this bit, if not Chiang Mai, where else? This is one of those open questions I think and a certain party herecwill likely dump on me, but Where do OPs live there? I like the beach but the humidity and the air conditioning bills scare me away almost as much as the mosquitoes and dengue does. I have learned from my travels that high lands are just about right for me since i dont like water much.....

[Garryladouceur]

Moving like this is such a balancing act. A reason for looking at Chiang Mai for me is that the place is cultural and higher up and I thought less apt to pollution. Plus, It seems to have health services that i dont need on an ongoing basis, but with a tricky ticker, i want to be near these places and a place where they have experts, not only in the hospitals but in the ambulancecthat might have to drive me.

Thus, if I did not have this fear, I might look further afield but alas, fear of the great beyond keeps me tethered to bigger centers.

[wolf5370]

I suspect our times are backwards, i.e. if I dug a hole deep enough here in Mexico I could end up popping up in Chiang Mai. No fear however. I took the advice of a responder, who was mean, and went over many many posts here.... A massive site and am even more confused.

In the main responders to me, an OP, presumably that does not mean old person although at 59 I might qualify, have been kind and helpful and make me want to consider some other place other than Chiang Mai to be frank.

We thought of Malaysia but my wife does not agree with some elements of the Muslim faith relating to the role of women. I try to explain to her that her faith is just as bad but she says she does not support the elements relating to that as well and besides these elements are not part of state policy... And then the fight starts and i get to sleep on the couch. So, in the end Malaysia is out....

I am bothered by this issue of smoke. Perhaps it is not bad all year, but we want to be in thailand in the European winters, i.e. october to may. I was born Canadian so summer there is sometimes in August....

Isvthe smoke worse or better in that period?

I dont speak Thai and it seems that might help, so I am prepared to learn. But learn Burmese to get help for the house? Is it legal to hire Burmese people?

Another issue relates to health care.... I read that health care is good there but how do the facilities and skills relate say to a Swiss Hospital? Sanitation?

Finally for this bit, if not Chiang Mai, where else? This is one of those open questions I think and a certain party herecwill likely dump on me, but Where do OPs live there? I like the beach but the humidity and the air conditioning bills scare me away almost as much as the mosquitoes and dengue does. I have learned from my travels that high lands are just about right for me since i dont like water much.....

Unfortunately, you will always get replies from bitter and miserable people that warn you off - the thing to consider is how many expats there are here in Chiang Mai - answer, a lot! That should tell you more than any individual could. I think its the best place to live in Thailand - and for my penny worth, the best place in Asia as an expat considering everything. Sure, there are problems - a month of burning in the spring (March) if it is not raining - and issues with land ownership (for those that want it) and visas for those that haven't the money to make the minimum requirements, but other than that its nice.

The weather is the best in Thailand I think - not too humid or hot (like Bangkok can be) and not so cols the far North can get during the cool season - I live here quite happily all year round with no aircon (have it - just never turn it on), just a fan and open doors and windows (with mozzie doors shut of course). Nice. Food is great (Northern food is by far the best IMO - and its a major enough city that you can get food from anywhere) - meals on wheel delivers food to you from almost any restaurant for pennies and even Macdonald's deliver here (Pizzahut/Burger King/etc/etc).

People are very friendly up here - I feel safe walking around in the early hours (something In would avoid doing at home!) and often walk 6km from my "local" expat bar to home at night through back roads in the dark - worse fear mozzie bites (often get offered lifts from some Thai worker on a moped or a beaten up truck - who refuses a tip for thanks - but happily accept a bottle of water or a banana ). I once left my driving license on a public desk in a bank - only to rediscover it several months later on the same desk, having been put in an open box (papers were on top of it which is why I only noticed it many months later as the license was sticking out from underneath and I recognised the colour). People help here is you break down, fall off your bike (or the curb etc), look lost or troubled - as long as you do not look aggressive or drunk.

Don't listen to the bitter moaners (many of which I suspect don't even live here!) - come visit and see for yourself - its a nice city with nice food, nice views, nice weather, good amenities (like first class hospitals) and I for one, as a long timer, love living here. And we are not all octogenarians either - I'm in my 40s as are many of my friends here - and there are younger expats here too (especially teachers as there are many international schools here) - unlike most places, and I daresay at home, people across age ranges tend to mix here too - at least for a friendly chat in the local expat bar (and you can be a non-drinker - quite often I just drink Ginger Ale or Diet Coke and have some grub and a chat). Met a guy yesterday, with some mutual friends - and going to his wife's birthday party at the weekend - that's how it goes here - nice people make friends easy here.

Forget hiring Burmese - just ask a local about hiring someone to cut your grass etc - it will probably be Thai - I doubt anyone here speaks Burmese - cheap labour is often Burmese and if you pay for a service the worked may be Burmese but I doubt you will even know - many speak Thai anyway. You can get by without Thai either - most Thais you would interact with will speak some English - and you can always be sorted out - worry not (I know people that have been here 20 years plus that can do not much more than "please" and "thank you", "hello", "large beer" and "bill please").

Smoke is only in March - some years are worse than other (worse when it is very dry - like this year) - if it affects you (and many people don't even notice it - other than the sky gets a weird colour at dusk) - if it does, take a trip to the Thai seaside for a couple of weeks - many do.

Edited August 22, 2013 by wolf5370

[wolf5370]

Moving like this is such a balancing act. A reason for looking at Chiang Mai for me is that the place is cultural and higher up and I thought less apt to pollution. Plus, It seems to have health services that i dont need on an ongoing basis, but with a tricky ticker, i want to be near these places and a place where they have experts, not only in the hospitals but in the ambulancecthat might have to drive me.

Thus, if I did not have this fear, I might look further afield but alas, fear of the great beyond keeps me tethered to bigger centers.

I honestly think once you have been here for your check-it-out-trip you will see its all well and good, your fear allied. Hospitals are first rate - though prices can vary - good insurance is quite cheap for under 60s, so get in quick

Any city will have pollution - CM is great in that for a second city it is tiny - once out of the moat area, there are a few circular highways (ring roads), but everything is between large stretched of paddy fields, farms and green land - no pollution where I am at all - 15km from town centre - and a 20baht songtaew ride. Only during rush hour will the city seem polluted, the rest of the time it doesn't - I guess the moat help there giving an area of separation. Live out of town a little (near a hospital if you like - they are not all city centre) and the air feel fresh - take a wee trip and you atop a mountain

[Punkreas]

Any city will have pollution - CM is great in that for a second city it is tiny - once out of the moat area, there are a few circular highways (ring roads), but everything is between large stretched of paddy fields, farms and green land - no pollution where I am at all - 15km from town centre - and a 20baht songtaew ride.

Sorry to interrupt this interesting thread with a question. I am not too familiar with the traffic system in Chiang Mai (not been there yet). So living a little off of the city center (15km as you say) you still find a songtaew that drives you from point A to point B? I was thinking songtaews can mainly be found near the centre but if not this provides actually a lot more option where to live and still being somewhat flexible.

Edited August 22, 2013 by Punkreas