PAD leaders will no longer lead political rallies

[webfact]

ANTI-GOVERNMENT MOVEMENT
PAD leaders will no longer lead rallies
The Nation

BANGKOK: -- People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) leaders announced last night they would give up their role in leading political rallies as doing so would only risk them violating their bail conditions and not bring any real changes.

In its "last statement" read by a spokesman at the ASTV studio, the PAD said it had proposed that all Democrat MPs resign and join a mass protest led by the yellow-shirt movement to prove their sincerity in introducing an overhaul in Thai politics, which it dubbed "Reform of the Country". However, it said, the Democrats refused to do this.

It added that ousting this government would only result in a vicious cycle, as Pheu Thai would be voted in and would return. The Democrats, on the other hand, may have refused to join the PAD's push for political reform because it hoped to return to power, the statement said.

The PAD, former allies of the Democrats, said the party was partially responsible for its problems in Thai politics and was an obstacle to the overhaul. It said the Democrats should be held responsible for any future problems.

All core PAD leaders were present in the studio last night.


-- The Nation 2013-08-24

[tominbkk]

They're just as idiotic as the PTP.

[apetley]

Have PAD finally realised that they have little real support left?

Sent from my GT-I9003 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Robby nz]

It would seem they have lost most of their support through their own ineffectiveness and now have to play the blame card.

[Halion]

As a result of poor management of any tangible opposition this country is on the fast track to disaster..

[HUAHIN62]

The Dems dont get it, without reforming themselves they will not win an election for many years to come. AV is a gentleman but unfortunately find it difficult to connect to the poor and uneducated. Without their vote the Dems cant win.

[WitawatWatawit]

I've felt for a long time that the PAD were laying low in order in order to let PT dig a deeper hole for themselves. So this development adds a new dimension. Still, it doesn't detract from the fact that there is sizeable opposition to the govt, and the PAD's decision will probably count for little in the long run. What it will do - if someone else doesn't step up to the plate - is make the opposition a little less solid. Many were looking to the PAD to bring some cohesion to the anti-govt movement, but that seems unlikely to happen now, unless PAD throws up a new leader and reverses this decision. Did you notice that Thailand's Robert Maxwell, Sondhi Lim..., is not mentioned in this? Anyway, the disparate groups mounting opposition to the govt will continue to bumble along while "waiting for the messiah". Pity. The worst fear is that some more radical group will try to step into the leadership void and escalate the tensions to the point of violence. Maybe not a high probability at this point, but who knows? The whole anti-govt movement is in flux at the moment, so anything is likely.

[NCFC]

I've felt for a long time that the PAD were laying low in order in order to let PT dig a deeper hole for themselves. So this development adds a new dimension. Still, it doesn't detract from the fact that there is sizeable opposition to the govt, and the PAD's decision will probably count for little in the long run. What it will do - if someone else doesn't step up to the plate - is make the opposition a little less solid. Many were looking to the PAD to bring some cohesion to the anti-govt movement, but that seems unlikely to happen now, unless PAD throws up a new leader and reverses this decision. Did you notice that Thailand's Robert Maxwell, Sondhi Lim..., is not mentioned in this? Anyway, the disparate groups mounting opposition to the govt will continue to bumble along while "waiting for the messiah". Pity. The worst fear is that some more radical group will try to step into the leadership void and escalate the tensions to the point of violence. Maybe not a high probability at this point, but who knows? The whole anti-govt movement is in flux at the moment, so anything is likely.

PAD, Pitak Siam, the white-masks and all the other related groups are not so much in flux as dieing on their feet, as no one is interested in what they have to say. The attempt to get Democrats to resign would lead to a PTP-only parliament which would be the pretext for the staging of a military coup. In much the same way as the Democrats boycotting the General Election in 2006, led to the military coup later that year.

Fortunately, this time round it looks as though the Democrats are going to stay in Parliament and oppose the Government through parliamentary means. Let's hope so.

[Robby nz]

Don't know that cohesive leadership is really needed at this point for there are so many small groups coming out and protesting about different things that this must be eating into PT support.

We see new groups almost every day, for instance in todays news :

Rubber growers still blocking road in Nakhon Si Thammarat's Cha Uat district, plan to rally to pressure govt to address falling rubber price.

And there are those opposing the dam on their land we read about a couple of days ago, I suspect they are not the only ones worried about what the flood relief thing will do to their lives.

It is not as if there is only one issue that is bringing people out against the Govt, the farmers are another group just waiting for the Govt to make a move they don't like on rice, should that happen there will be more trouble from them.

The really big anti Govt protests come when there is a single issue that unites everyone but in this case there are so many little issues, rather than one big one, that the extent of the anti Govt feeling is not so apparent.

With the Govt determined to go ahead with contentious legislation it remains to be seen over the next year just how much anti feeling they will generate against themselves and whether it will be enough to lead to their downfall.

[WitawatWatawit]

The question of leadership is very pertinent. Both the 1992 and 2010 street protests had strong leadership (92 was essentially a Bkk middle class uprising, while 2010 was supposed to be for the rural poor - ha bloody ha). While it's correct to say that small groups are coming out in protest, most of these are single issue oriented and not overtly political. Once they have registered their protest, they tend to die away. The rice issue has the potential to cause serious problems, but history would suggest otherwise. Looking around at the whole scenario at the moment, it is almost surreal in that there is very clear and very widespread dissatisfaction towards the govt, but no sign of any united groundswell beginning to build up. It's kind of like hit-and-run tactics without a political guerrilla war.

[Thai at Heart]

Well if I could go to jail for breaking my bail, I would make a big grandstanding out of telling everyone, I won't be involved.

Should I plan to be involved from the wings.

[Thai at Heart]

The question of leadership is very pertinent. Both the 1992 and 2010 street protests had strong leadership (92 was essentially a Bkk middle class uprising, while 2010 was supposed to be for the rural poor - ha bloody ha). While it's correct to say that small groups are coming out in protest, most of these are single issue oriented and not overtly political. Once they have registered their protest, they tend to die away. The rice issue has the potential to cause serious problems, but history would suggest otherwise. Looking around at the whole scenario at the moment, it is almost surreal in that there is very clear and very widespread dissatisfaction towards the govt, but no sign of any united groundswell beginning to build up. It's kind of like hit-and-run tactics without a political guerrilla war.

It only works if you get a tacit promise from the army.

[BuddyPinkham]

The Dems dont get it, without reforming themselves they will not win an election for many years to come. AV is a gentleman but unfortunately find it difficult to connect to the poor and uneducated. Without their vote the Dems cant win.

The only way the poor and uneducated vote is because they are paid and made promises!

[Soutpeel]

Well if I could go to jail for breaking my bail, I would make a big grandstanding out of telling everyone, I won't be involved.

Should I plan to be involved from the wings.

A certain ex-PM, whose initial is "T" used exactly the same tactic and look how that turned out....

[DocN]

The Dems dont get it, without reforming themselves they will not win an election for many years to come. AV is a gentleman but unfortunately find it difficult to connect to the poor and uneducated. Without their vote the Dems cant win.

The only way the poor and uneducated vote is because they are paid and made promises!

Both sides pay and both sides make promises.

The only difference is that one side doesn't pay enough and one side makes promises to the poor, whereas the other one is making promises to the "middleclass" and elite!

[MrSlatersParrot]

The question of leadership is very pertinent. Both the 1992 and 2010 street protests had strong leadership (92 was essentially a Bkk middle class uprising, while 2010 was supposed to be for the rural poor - ha bloody ha). While it's correct to say that small groups are coming out in protest, most of these are single issue oriented and not overtly political. Once they have registered their protest, they tend to die away. The rice issue has the potential to cause serious problems, but history would suggest otherwise. Looking around at the whole scenario at the moment, it is almost surreal in that there is very clear and very widespread dissatisfaction towards the govt, but no sign of any united groundswell beginning to build up. It's kind of like hit-and-run tactics without a political guerrilla war.

Were you at the redshirt demonstrations?

I was. Before Abhisit claimed that any farang showing up would be arrested on site and deported.

They were the poor. Unlike the PAD.

By the way most civilised countries subsidise their farmers.

The governments policy was to cut out the middlemen.

In Europe we have the common agricultural policy.

Without it there would be serious trouble and quite possibly starvation.

[MrSlatersParrot]

The Dems dont get it, without reforming themselves they will not win an election for many years to come. AV is a gentleman but unfortunately find it difficult to connect to the poor and uneducated. Without their vote the Dems cant win.

The only way the poor and uneducated vote is because they are paid and made promises!

Guess what. It happens everywhere. Didn't you know?

[indyuk]

Well if I could go to jail for breaking my bail, I would make a big grandstanding out of telling everyone, I won't be involved.

Should I plan to be involved from the wings.

If you have the 'Wings of a Dove' together with a passion for 'Truth and Reconciliation' I'd say yes go ahead. If you'll have me I'll be with you.

[Scott]

Off-topic, inflammatory posts have been deleted. This topic is about the PAD, not the Red Shirts.

Stay on topic.

[ridkun]

Some news are good news after all. Wonder what will happen to all the donation money they have gathered.

[MegaRanter]

Some news are good news after all. Wonder what will happen to all the donation money they have gathered.

Bail bonds and court fines. Why you ask about money? Television air time is not free you know.

[khunken]

The question of leadership is very pertinent. Both the 1992 and 2010 street protests had strong leadership (92 was essentially a Bkk middle class uprising, while 2010 was supposed to be for the rural poor - ha bloody ha). While it's correct to say that small groups are coming out in protest, most of these are single issue oriented and not overtly political. Once they have registered their protest, they tend to die away. The rice issue has the potential to cause serious problems, but history would suggest otherwise. Looking around at the whole scenario at the moment, it is almost surreal in that there is very clear and very widespread dissatisfaction towards the govt, but no sign of any united groundswell beginning to build up. It's kind of like hit-and-run tactics without a political guerrilla war.

Were you at the redshirt demonstrations?

I was. Before Abhisit claimed that any farang showing up would be arrested on site and deported.

They were the poor. Unlike the PAD.

By the way most civilised countries subsidise their farmers.

The governments policy was to cut out the middlemen.

In Europe we have the common agricultural policy.

Without it there would be serious trouble and quite possibly starvation.

Although I lived quite close to the areas of demonstrations & riots, I kept away because it was none of any Farang's business. The idiots who got up on the red shirt stage got what they deserved.

The paid masses were poor but their elite leaders were not & many were ensconced in a 5-star hotel. Your comment about the PAD is typical propaganda.

The PAD started as a protest group, first against the corrupt PTT IPO & second (& more heavily) against Thaksin's efforts to privatise EGAT without any regulator in place. The PAD now included SRT union members, Thai Airways union members & others horrified that a supposed 'man of the people' could attempt such self-serving & right-wing policies. The attempt to buy into Liverpool FC - with public money - followed.

So, the PAD has in the past included a broad spectrum of poor, union members & middle class among it's members. The is no evidence that they were paid to demonstrate unlike Thaksin's red shirts.

Yes, governments subsidise various farming activities but here the middlemen, landlords, and rich farming groups get most of the benefits. If the rice subsidy had been thought through (not just by one man) it could have worked but it was deliberately designed to benefit cronies.

I agree with the CAP but it's ridiculous to say that without it there could possibly be starvation.

[Thai at Heart]

Well if I could go to jail for breaking my bail, I would make a big grandstanding out of telling everyone, I won't be involved.

Should I plan to be involved from the wings.

If you have the 'Wings of a Dove' together with a passion for 'Truth and Reconciliation' I'd say yes go ahead. If you'll have me I'll be with you.

Sindhi hates Thaksin with passion. He will be involved one way or another.

[ib1b4]

Some news are good news after all. Wonder what will happen to all the donation money they have gathered.

Not sure where all the money went , but people around my area are still waiting for their 600 baht a day promised for the air port take over.

[jayboy]

The question of leadership is very pertinent. Both the 1992 and 2010 street protests had strong leadership (92 was essentially a Bkk middle class uprising, while 2010 was supposed to be for the rural poor - ha bloody ha). While it's correct to say that small groups are coming out in protest, most of these are single issue oriented and not overtly political. Once they have registered their protest, they tend to die away. The rice issue has the potential to cause serious problems, but history would suggest otherwise. Looking around at the whole scenario at the moment, it is almost surreal in that there is very clear and very widespread dissatisfaction towards the govt, but no sign of any united groundswell beginning to build up. It's kind of like hit-and-run tactics without a political guerrilla war.

Were you at the redshirt demonstrations?

I was. Before Abhisit claimed that any farang showing up would be arrested on site and deported.

They were the poor. Unlike the PAD.

By the way most civilised countries subsidise their farmers.

The governments policy was to cut out the middlemen.

In Europe we have the common agricultural policy.

Without it there would be serious trouble and quite possibly starvation.

Although I lived quite close to the areas of demonstrations & riots, I kept away because it was none of any Farang's business. The idiots who got up on the red shirt stage got what they deserved.

The paid masses were poor but their elite leaders were not & many were ensconced in a 5-star hotel. Your comment about the PAD is typical propaganda.

The PAD started as a protest group, first against the corrupt PTT IPO & second (& more heavily) against Thaksin's efforts to privatise EGAT without any regulator in place. The PAD now included SRT union members, Thai Airways union members & others horrified that a supposed 'man of the people' could attempt such self-serving & right-wing policies. The attempt to buy into Liverpool FC - with public money - followed.

So, the PAD has in the past included a broad spectrum of poor, union members & middle class among it's members. The is no evidence that they were paid to demonstrate unlike Thaksin's red shirts.

Yes, governments subsidise various farming activities but here the middlemen, landlords, and rich farming groups get most of the benefits. If the rice subsidy had been thought through (not just by one man) it could have worked but it was deliberately designed to benefit cronies.

I agree with the CAP but it's ridiculous to say that without it there could possibly be starvation.

If you really want to know why the redshirts supported Thaksin read what Lee Kwan Yew, hardly a gullible lefty, had to say recently.

"The arrival of Thaksin Shinawatra permanently changed Thai politics. Before he came onto the scene, the Bangkok establishment dominated all sides of the political competition and governed largely to the benefit of the nation’s capital. If there had been disagreements among the Bangkok elite, none were quite as ferocious as the ones to come. Nor were any of the quarrels as divisive as those that arose during and after Thaksin’s term. What Thaksin did was to upset the apple cart of the Thai political status quo by diverting to the poorer parts of the country resources that had previously been hogged by Bangkok and its middle and upper-class residents. Thaksin’s was a more inclusive brand of politics that allowed the peasants from the north and the northeast to share in the country’s economic growth. A gulf had already existed before his arrival, created by the Bangkok-centric policies of his predecessors. All he did was to awaken the people to the gulf — and the unfairness of it — and to offer policy solutions to bridge it. If he had not done so, I am convinced that somebody else would have come along to do the same.

When he took over the premiership in 2001, Thaksin was already a successful businessman and a billionaire. But if rich Thais were counting on him to show class solidarity, they would soon be sorely disappointed. He implemented policies that favoured the rural poor to an unprecedented extent. He extended loans to farmers, overseas scholarships to students from rural families and government —subsidised housing to the urban poor, many of whom had migrated to the cities in search of jobs and could only afford to live in slums. His healthcare plan targeted at those who could not pay for their own medical insurance provided coverage at just 30 baht (about US$1) per hospital visit.

To Thaksin’s opponents, he was turning the country upside down. They were not about to let him get away with it. They called him a populist and claimed his policies would bankrupt the state. (Remarkably, this did not stop them from continuing many of these policies and coming up with other similar ones when they held power from December 2008 to August 2011.) They accused him of corruption and favouring his family businesses, charges he denied. They were also unhappy with his firm — some say dictatorial — handling of the media and his controversial war on drugs in the south of the country, during which due process and human rights may sometimes have been overlooked. Nevertheless, the peasants, overwhelming in numbers, ignored the criticisms and re-elected him in 2005. The Bangkok elite ultimately could not tolerate the man. He was overthrown in a military coup in 2006.

Thailand’s capital has since experienced great upheaval. Scenes of chaos have broken out repeatedly on the streets of Bangkok since 2008, with mass protests involving either the Yellow Shirts, who oppose Thaksin and do so in the name of defending the monarchy, or the Red Shirts, made up of Thaksin’s ardent supporters. But the latest general election, held in 2011, which handed Thaksin’s sister Yingluck the premiership, was a clear vindication by the Thai electorate of the new path that Thaksin had chosen for Thailand. The peasants of the north and the northeast of the country, having tasted what it was like to have access to capital, were not going to give that up. Thaksin and his allies have now won five general elections in a row, in 2001, 2005, 2006, 2007 and 2011. For Thaksin’s opponents to try to hold back the tide is futile."

[MrSlatersParrot]

The question of leadership is very pertinent. Both the 1992 and 2010 street protests had strong leadership (92 was essentially a Bkk middle class uprising, while 2010 was supposed to be for the rural poor - ha bloody ha). While it's correct to say that small groups are coming out in protest, most of these are single issue oriented and not overtly political. Once they have registered their protest, they tend to die away. The rice issue has the potential to cause serious problems, but history would suggest otherwise. Looking around at the whole scenario at the moment, it is almost surreal in that there is very clear and very widespread dissatisfaction towards the govt, but no sign of any united groundswell beginning to build up. It's kind of like hit-and-run tactics without a political guerrilla war.

Were you at the redshirt demonstrations?

I was. Before Abhisit claimed that any farang showing up would be arrested on site and deported.

They were the poor. Unlike the PAD.

By the way most civilised countries subsidise their farmers.

The governments policy was to cut out the middlemen.

In Europe we have the common agricultural policy.

Without it there would be serious trouble and quite possibly starvation.

Although I lived quite close to the areas of demonstrations & riots, I kept away because it was none of any Farang's business. The idiots who got up on the red shirt stage got what they deserved.

The paid masses were poor but their elite leaders were not & many were ensconced in a 5-star hotel. Your comment about the PAD is typical propaganda.

The PAD started as a protest group, first against the corrupt PTT IPO & second (& more heavily) against Thaksin's efforts to privatise EGAT without any regulator in place. The PAD now included SRT union members, Thai Airways union members & others horrified that a supposed 'man of the people' could attempt such self-serving & right-wing policies. The attempt to buy into Liverpool FC - with public money - followed.

So, the PAD has in the past included a broad spectrum of poor, union members & middle class among it's members. The is no evidence that they were paid to demonstrate unlike Thaksin's red shirts.

Yes, governments subsidise various farming activities but here the middlemen, landlords, and rich farming groups get most of the benefits. If the rice subsidy had been thought through (not just by one man) it could have worked but it was deliberately designed to benefit cronies.

I agree with the CAP but it's ridiculous to say that without it there could possibly be starvation.

Because the PAD wanted to take away the voting rights of the people I think you'll find that the unions particularly the SRT have long abandoned the PAD.

Talk about corruption you get the PAD leader being forgiven all his debts the first time around when his former finance director was elevated to be Ceo of his bank.

Nice.

He's bankrupt again. Swindled money from another bank but has of course yet to serve a day of his sentence.

Nice,

Pot calling the kettle black.

"Get over it" the Eagles song. It applies.

[hellodolly]

Some news are good news after all. Wonder what will happen to all the donation money they have gathered.

Not sure where all the money went , but people around my area are still waiting for their 600 baht a day promised for the air port take over.

They should get in line with the red shirts still waiting for there 500 baht a day pay.

[zydeco]

Fizzle. Pretty soon, all Thai politics will be PTP internal warfare. The big question, too, might be just what is lying in wait on the other side of Thaksin? What if the choice boils down to Thaksin or some pale imitation of the Khmer Rouge?

[johnnie20110]

The question of leadership is very pertinent. Both the 1992 and 2010 street protests had strong leadership (92 was essentially a Bkk middle class uprising, while 2010 was supposed to be for the rural poor - ha bloody ha). While it's correct to say that small groups are coming out in protest, most of these are single issue oriented and not overtly political. Once they have registered their protest, they tend to die away. The rice issue has the potential to cause serious problems, but history would suggest otherwise. Looking around at the whole scenario at the moment, it is almost surreal in that there is very clear and very widespread dissatisfaction towards the govt, but no sign of any united groundswell beginning to build up. It's kind of like hit-and-run tactics without a political guerrilla war.

Were you at the redshirt demonstrations?

I was. Before Abhisit claimed that any farang showing up would be arrested on site and deported.

They were the poor. Unlike the PAD.

By the way most civilised countries subsidise their farmers.

The governments policy was to cut out the middlemen.

In Europe we have the common agricultural policy.

Without it there would be serious trouble and quite possibly starvation.

Although I lived quite close to the areas of demonstrations & riots, I kept away because it was none of any Farang's business. The idiots who got up on the red shirt stage got what they deserved.

The paid masses were poor but their elite leaders were not & many were ensconced in a 5-star hotel. Your comment about the PAD is typical propaganda.

The PAD started as a protest group, first against the corrupt PTT IPO & second (& more heavily) against Thaksin's efforts to privatise EGAT without any regulator in place. The PAD now included SRT union members, Thai Airways union members & others horrified that a supposed 'man of the people' could attempt such self-serving & right-wing policies. The attempt to buy into Liverpool FC - with public money - followed.

So, the PAD has in the past included a broad spectrum of poor, union members & middle class among it's members. The is no evidence that they were paid to demonstrate unlike Thaksin's red shirts.

Yes, governments subsidise various farming activities but here the middlemen, landlords, and rich farming groups get most of the benefits. If the rice subsidy had been thought through (not just by one man) it could have worked but it was deliberately designed to benefit cronies.

I agree with the CAP but it's ridiculous to say that without it there could possibly be starvation.

Because the PAD wanted to take away the voting rights of the people

No, they didn't.

That lie has been dismantled for years now, although some will still proffer it up as fact, even today.

[hellodolly]

The question of leadership is very pertinent. Both the 1992 and 2010 street protests had strong leadership (92 was essentially a Bkk middle class uprising, while 2010 was supposed to be for the rural poor - ha bloody ha). While it's correct to say that small groups are coming out in protest, most of these are single issue oriented and not overtly political. Once they have registered their protest, they tend to die away. The rice issue has the potential to cause serious problems, but history would suggest otherwise. Looking around at the whole scenario at the moment, it is almost surreal in that there is very clear and very widespread dissatisfaction towards the govt, but no sign of any united groundswell beginning to build up. It's kind of like hit-and-run tactics without a political guerrilla war.

Although I lived quite close to the areas of demonstrations & riots, I kept away because it was none of any Farang's business. The idiots who got up on the red shirt stage got what they deserved.

The paid masses were poor but their elite leaders were not & many were ensconced in a 5-star hotel. Your comment about the PAD is typical propaganda.

The PAD started as a protest group, first against the corrupt PTT IPO & second (& more heavily) against Thaksin's efforts to privatise EGAT without any regulator in place. The PAD now included SRT union members, Thai Airways union members & others horrified that a supposed 'man of the people' could attempt such self-serving & right-wing policies. The attempt to buy into Liverpool FC - with public money - followed.

So, the PAD has in the past included a broad spectrum of poor, union members & middle class among it's members. The is no evidence that they were paid to demonstrate unlike Thaksin's red shirts.

Yes, governments subsidise various farming activities but here the middlemen, landlords, and rich farming groups get most of the benefits. If the rice subsidy had been thought through (not just by one man) it could have worked but it was deliberately designed to benefit cronies.

I agree with the CAP but it's ridiculous to say that without it there could possibly be starvation.

Because the PAD wanted to take away the voting rights of the people

No, they didn't.

That lie has been dismantled for years now, although some will still proffer it up as fact, even today.

I think they wanted to appoint 2/3 of the ministers. Not sure of the number but I know they did not want %100 elected.