No phone lines into an entire condo block

[wpcoe]

I’m looking for advice and (civil) suggestions on how to proceed with a (to me, anyways) bizarre situation with my condo management.

I bought a unit in this (20 year old?) building about nine years ago. At the time there were only a very few still-functional phone lines running into the building but I was fortunate to have one hooked up to my unit. I had a TT&T phone line with 3BB ADSL. Then I rented the unit out for about 2.5 years. I am now preparing to move back into the condo.

I was advised today by the building head engineer (who I’ve known for the 9 years and who gives straight answers) that apparently the remaining phone lines died (or were cut?) about a year ago. There are NO phone lines running into the building now. NOBODY can have a phone line.

We had a civil (I was calm, in spite of my desire to throttle somebody) conversation with the condo on-site manager and the head engineer. According to them I would be the only one who would want a phone line or internet. FIVE HUNDRED (my estimate, maybe it's only ~450?) units in this building and I'm the ONLY one. Right. I think the translation is that when they tell anyone else that no phone lines are available, the other people don’t push back and just accept the fact. I’m pushing and making them uncomfortable, I know, but sheesh.

They gave me the phone number of the manager for my condo at the management company in Bangkok. I want an e-mail address, as I want all correspondence in writing. They will get me one by Sunday. (Don’t you love that efficiency?)

Supposedly, the manager in Bangkok said he would not authorize replacing the phone lines. The lines ran underground and apparently they won’t consider any other option. I suggested they just run new ones under one run of concrete driveway (4m?) and attach a terminal on a pole in the closest corner of the underground garage* from which individual lines could be run to any owner wanting one – at the owner’s expense. (After all, if I'm the ONLY one, or if only a FEW people wanted a line, it wouldn't be a problem, right? ) Or, they could run a new conduit in the same manner, but instead of terminating the lines at the closest corner of the garage, continue it to whatever central switching center they used before. Then they showed me the central switching center – it was an old console type of thing they had disassembled and had moved to the trash area. They removed the switching center!

Mind you this is a condo that has NEVER announced an AGM in the nine years I’ve been an owner. There are some other goings on that I could relate here, but shall not out of respect for the strange & wonderful libel laws in Thailand. I can live with the shady deals and scams except when it comes to my internet access. I also know to be mindful of the risk of bodily harm if I create the wrong type of waves. And, yes, violence has been involved in the issues I prefer not to talk about.

When (if?) I get the Bangkok manager’s e-mail address, how should I proceed? Do I have any legal basis for demanding access to a telephone line? If not, I'm open to other reasonable suggestions.

*Edited to clarify, it's not a basement garage, it's a ground floor garage under the condo.

Edited August 30, 2013 by wpcoe

[trogers]

According to them I would be the only one who would want a phone line or internet.

As I have mentioned a few times in the past, buying or renting a condo means communal living. Know the type of social group you will be living with before committing your money.

[wpcoe]

Thanks for that pithy truism.

[falkan]

sell this dump asap!

[Langsuan Man]

Sounds to me, based upon your time line, that your building got caught in the fight between TOT, TT&T, and 3BB. When 3BB separated itself from TT&T they continued to use TOT's phone lines (which had been leased by TT&T) and finally TOT came in and had all the lines that were being used illegally by 3BB cut. In many cases 3BB came in and replaced the internal lines and all was well with the world, unfortunately in some cases the building would not allow 3BB to install new lines, so those customers were just out of luck

Your problem is two fold, one of course is dealing with the condo management company for authorization and the second is dealing with TOT or TT&T to get them to provide a new external and, according to your post, new internal lines

Unless you can get a large number of other tenants to demand a phone line into the building I think that you are out of luck. If you had made a complaint when the lines was originally cut you would have more leverage but as it stands now, I see an expensive lawyer in your immediate future

[wpcoe]

Do you think it is possible that the condo will let TT&T (I'd like to keep the old phone number, and TT&T says it's still available) run a line direct from the street to my condo unit? Or, should I say, is it reasonable? If it's both possible and reasonable (according to us), then I'd feel more confident asking the condo to let TT&T do it. When I was in the TT&T office they were quoting me various installation prices based on the length of cable, so I think they were planning to run a new cable from *somewhere.* (Not sure how, exactly, they'd run a cable from the street, though...)

At the time I was in the TT&T office, I wasn't aware the condo no longer had my old line and that they ripped out the switching center, so I was confused why TT&T was quoting cable prices. Now I understand.

The on-site condo manager and the engineer are generally agreeable and easy to get along with -- I haven't always gotten what I wanted, but we've always been pleasant about it -- but if I ask something that is totally out-of-line, it's probably better I not even ask.

I've toyed with selling this place, but it's not easy to get any decent price for a condo in an older building like this because I'm surrounded by new construction. As I said, I don't mind dancing with the devil by living here, but I NEED MY INTERNET.

Hmmmm. I wonder if TT&T could get away with wiring my line without asking the condo for permission first? Isn't that the Thai way?

[Khun Jean]

I have seen a few condos that have telephone lines running on the outside of the building.

Telephone lines can be pretty long without a problem so it is an option.

[oneday]

I'm not sure you mentioned what city you are in, but probably one of the 3 big ones. In that case, it's my understanding that 3G with an Aircard is getting pretty darn good. I had to live with an old EDGE/GSM phone modem in my last condo that was not pleasant, but it got the job done. With a 3G Aricard you should be in much better shape.

Your only other course of action, IMO, is going through all the trouble with your management company to agree to something that will work, then the phone company and finally paying for the line to be installed. If you can do that, then by all means do it, but I'd at least give an Aircard a try. My girl has a DTAC and TRUE and I think she says TRUE is pretty good.

I would have thought about putting a flyer in English and Thai briefly explaining the problem and truly seeing if all the other tenants did not care if they have internet. IMO clearly the management was lying through their collective teeth. These days many, many people rely on internet. More than likely you were right and most or all of the others just gave up when the were lied to.

[Cuban]

I doubt many consider a land-line phone of any importance these days as they use cell-phones.

I recall the big PBAX units behind the counters of many old Thai condo units, they must be rare now.

The fact that the condo is missing a trick in not wiring the building for internet in the form of LAN and wireless that they then charge for as a revenue stream is evidence that the management of the building have zero interest in any investment beyond what they have to do to keep it going on as it is.

Your chances of any reaction from the management group that is supportive to your cause is zero.

Look at wireless options, consider running your own cable out the window somewhere or move.

When looking at 3G etc look deeper than just what the first shop sells as "the" solution, it is easy to improve the signal strength in many cases with remote antennas and shielding to reduce interference. The improvement depends on the effort you put into the problem.

I have seen a few condos that have telephone lines running on the outside of the building.
Telephone lines can be pretty long without a problem so it is an option.

Although the heat will affect ADSL point to point speed experienced by the user. The sun will affect insulation over time and water ingress will kill line speeds. Running internally is better.

Edited August 31, 2013 by Cuban

[jackflash]

Do have a friend living nearby, or maybe a local shop owner you can do a deal with?

Get ADSL installed at their premises and arrange a WiFi link to your flat.

Use a directional antenna at either end and run Skype or similar to give you voice telephony as well as the web.

[realenglish1]

I have a really good idea. It seems to me that a telephone and internet are basic fundamental issues. So go higher a lawyer and make a big stink at your building . This should help a lot and get the ball moving again

These are Thai idiots saying you cannot have a telephone line

[leewood]

sounds like you're dealing with unreasonable people and of course the way generally the system works (i have seen it so much in Thailand) the more you p**s them off the more they will be difficult with you.

It seems like an impossible situation for you i'm sorry to say - somebody suggested selling the place. I'd do that as if you can't get phone or internet line you won't be able to live comfortable and you sure as hell won't be able to rent the place out as EVERYBODY wants internet.

Sorry man and good luck!!

[wpcoe]

Thanks for the ideas, everybody. I've considered 3G, but have no clue if the "Fair Use" limits -- e.g. 3GB or 5GB -- are enough for my use. I have *no* idea how much I download each month. I do download overseas TV programs fairly regularly, and have been known to download large files like .iso files for WIndows updates/upgrades, etc.

One question not addressed from my opening post is: "Do I have any ... basis for demanding access to a telephone line?" I deleted the word "legal" as I doubt there is any *law* I could use, but is there any basis on which could make a "demand." After all, I bought the condo unit with the knowledge a phone line was included -- something like that?

Since the on-site manager blurted that I'm probably the only one, I wonder if they would permit a wire to be strung from the pole on the street to my building, or if there is some condo regulation to disallow that. I could see not wanting dozens of wires draped from the street to the building, but if I'm the only one...

[BuriramRes]

Thanks for that pithy truism.

Our telephone line here in Satuek was so bad both TOT & I got fed up with trying to keep it workable for internet.

I have since had TOT to supply me with a direct wifi type of connection which works just fine.

It cost me 10,000 baht to install. Don't know whether that would be a solution in your case. The transmitter/receiver sits on a 20 foot pole though.

Another note, when I changed over from TT&T to TOT I had to change my telephone number. Was told the numbers were specific to the provider.

Edited August 31, 2013 by BuriramRes

[wpcoe]

Uh, oh. I found a potential problem with my begging/bribing them to string a wire from the streetside pole to my building: I walked the entire circumference of the building and there is not one single overhead wire attached to the building. Everything must be underground. I think that dims my chance of me letting me string a wire, no?

Now, when I had some Guatemalan gardeners install a yard sprinkler system at my house in California, they were able to run a PVC conduit pipe under the concrete driveway using some technique with a garden hose and the PVC pipe, inching their way underneath the concrete. Can I have *any* expectation that any TT&T or 3BB technician would have the same skills/ability? I'm estimating the concrete section that would need to be breeched (underneath) is about 4m wide.

[KittenKong]

You will probably find that the original phone lines were in a conduit anyway, and it is probably still there.

There are no overhead cables attached to my older building either but we have phone lines, electricity, cable TV and cable internet, all underground.

If you have cable TV it may be worth investigating whether you can get broadband on that. I can.

[Suradit69]

I had a TOT phone and Internet (in Pattaya). TOT went up to the building and then it was the condo's wiring up to my unit. Phone service was OK, but I rarely used it. Internet service was pretty bad, the blame being laid on the condo's wiring. So I switched to 3BB and (according to our building engineer) 3BB put in a line to the building and then on up to my unit.

No more land line telephone, which is fine with me, and the Internet connection is (by comparison) great. We have a fairly cooperative management and an active board, maybe more flexible than yours. But possibly you can get them to agree to let one of the ISPs run a line all the way to your unit and "sweet talk" one of the ISP technicians to doing the needful.

[wpcoe]

The phone lines were (are) in an underground conduit. However with the passing of time, fewer and fewer of them worked. When I bought the condo nine years there were less than ten working lines, and I had one of them. What the condo has done is disconnected both ends of the cables, trashed the pbx-style switching center and just left it. I don't know if the conduit ran through the concrete slab which is the floor of the garage or under it, but in any case it doesn't seem to be salvageable. No way to pull out the current wires (I tried <g>) nor to feed a new one through.

The cable company is some obscure one that I make cash payments to the head maintenance engineer. No idea the name of the cable company, but I doubt they have broadband, but I will ask the engineer, just in case.

I don't think there is a problem with the condo about me running a line directly to my unit, as I'm on the top floor and there is a huge open space above my unit. I anticipate the problem to be getting the line from the pole at streetside to the building. If they don't allow a cable hanging in the air to the side of the building, I don't know how else it can be done, unless they can manage the under-the-concrete-driveway PVC conduit trick.

[Ulic]

Do you think it is possible that the condo will let TT&T (I'd like to keep the old phone number, and TT&T says it's still available) run a line direct from the street to my condo unit? Or, should I say, is it reasonable? If it's both possible and reasonable (according to us), then I'd feel more confident asking the condo to let TT&T do it. When I was in the TT&T office they were quoting me various installation prices based on the length of cable, so I think they were planning to run a new cable from *somewhere.* (Not sure how, exactly, they'd run a cable from the street, though...)

At the time I was in the TT&T office, I wasn't aware the condo no longer had my old line and that they ripped out the switching center, so I was confused why TT&T was quoting cable prices. Now I understand.

The on-site condo manager and the engineer are generally agreeable and easy to get along with -- I haven't always gotten what I wanted, but we've always been pleasant about it -- but if I ask something that is totally out-of-line, it's probably better I not even ask.

I've toyed with selling this place, but it's not easy to get any decent price for a condo in an older building like this because I'm surrounded by new construction. As I said, I don't mind dancing with the devil by living here, but I NEED MY INTERNET.

Hmmmm. I wonder if TT&T could get away with wiring my line without asking the condo for permission first? Isn't that the Thai way?

Asking for permision is giving someone the right to say no.

[oneday]

The phone lines were (are) in an underground conduit. However with the passing of time, fewer and fewer of them worked. When I bought the condo nine years there were less than ten working lines, and I had one of them. What the condo has done is disconnected both ends of the cables, trashed the pbx-style switching center and just left it. I don't know if the conduit ran through the concrete slab which is the floor of the garage or under it, but in any case it doesn't seem to be salvageable. No way to pull out the current wires (I tried <g>) nor to feed a new one through.

The cable company is some obscure one that I make cash payments to the head maintenance engineer. No idea the name of the cable company, but I doubt they have broadband, but I will ask the engineer, just in case.

I don't think there is a problem with the condo about me running a line directly to my unit, as I'm on the top floor and there is a huge open space above my unit. I anticipate the problem to be getting the line from the pole at streetside to the building. If they don't allow a cable hanging in the air to the side of the building, I don't know how else it can be done, unless they can manage the under-the-concrete-driveway PVC conduit trick.

The under the concrete trick isn't normally that difficult in America and probably most other western countries, but in Thailand they like to bury construction debris all around the building and cement over it. Underneath that concrete is probably a ton of broken tiles, concrete pieces and other garbage. The trick is simple. You put a nozzle with a small opening on the end of a long piece of PVC, which produces a very constricted hard stream of water that simply blasts the dirt out of the way. It's not going to blast the pieces of garbage out of the way.

[Fookhaht]

I walked the entire circumference of the building and there is not one single overhead wire attached to the building. Everything must be underground. I think that dims my chance of me letting me string a wire, no?

Wow, with all the thousands of places throughout the country with millions of kilometers of "spaghetti wire" hanging off millions of poles---you get the "underground-only" place. What luck!

[innerspace]

Is it actually phone you want or internet? One is not dependant on the other.

I can imagine a condo scrapping phone lines due to lack of demand but not internet. Your neighbours will want internet Im sure.

Maybe you are asking the wrong questions?

With internet setup voip for calls.

Otherwise get wifi installed on an adjacent building with decent directional router as someone suggested.

[ericthai]

I have a really good idea. It seems to me that a telephone and internet are basic fundamental issues. So go higher a lawyer and make a big stink at your building . This should help a lot and get the ball moving again

These are Thai idiots saying you cannot have a telephone line

Don't think you have been here long... This is Thailand getting lawyers involved will cause more harm than good. Even for a lawyer to get involved it would need to state in the original purchase contract that phone outlets / connections are included.

[ericthai]

Uh, oh. I found a potential problem with my begging/bribing them to string a wire from the streetside pole to my building: I walked the entire circumference of the building and there is not one single overhead wire attached to the building. Everything must be underground. I think that dims my chance of me letting me string a wire, no?

Now, when I had some Guatemalan gardeners install a yard sprinkler system at my house in California, they were able to run a PVC conduit pipe under the concrete driveway using some technique with a garden hose and the PVC pipe, inching their way underneath the concrete. Can I have *any* expectation that any TT&T or 3BB technician would have the same skills/ability? I'm estimating the concrete section that would need to be breeched (underneath) is about 4m wide.

Not sure the water pipe under the concrete will work here in Thailand. I did sprinkler systems in the USA when out of high school in Florida.

We used to do the same thing, but the dirt is very sandy and easy to move. I think the dirt in Thailand is going to be more like clay and hard to breakthrough.

Another issue is when the build these sites they dont clean up and just pour concrete over anything that is there so you might hit some obstacles.

When I moved from Bangkok up to Surin i was far from down town. Nobody in our village had a phone in their house. I went to TT&T and they wanted 40,000B to install. Well I didn't need a phone that bad. So i went and got one of those Edge USB dongles. It worked good I bought a router that the USB dongle plugged right into the router. It was a little slow but workable. I know had 3G which is better but still not great. I would ask the manager what he thinks you can do to be able to get internet. That you really need internet for your work. He might have something up his sleeve. Good Luck! Keep us posted

[rotary]

Sounds to me, based upon your time line, that your building got caught in the fight between TOT, TT&T, and 3BB. When 3BB separated itself from TT&T they continued to use TOT's phone lines (which had been leased by TT&T) and finally TOT came in and had all the lines that were being used illegally by 3BB cut. In many cases 3BB came in and replaced the internal lines and all was well with the world, unfortunately in some cases the building would not allow 3BB to install new lines, so those customers were just out of luck

Your problem is two fold, one of course is dealing with the condo management company for authorization and the second is dealing with TOT or TT&T to get them to provide a new external and, according to your post, new internal lines

Unless you can get a large number of other tenants to demand a phone line into the building I think that you are out of luck. If you had made a complaint when the lines was originally cut you would have more leverage but as it stands now, I see an expensive lawyer in your immediate future

I see mobile phones and wireless modems in his future. Who needs a land line now anyway?

[rolfmajestic]

Hello, If you want can connect you to the internet in that building (16MB), if interested can send mail to [email protected]

[wpcoe]

Is it actually phone you want or internet? One is not dependant on the other.

I can imagine a condo scrapping phone lines due to lack of demand but not internet. Your neighbours will want internet Im sure.

Maybe you are asking the wrong questions?

With internet setup voip for calls.

Otherwise get wifi installed on an adjacent building with decent directional router as someone suggested.

Ideally I want both my old TT&T phone line and broadband. (Actually "ideally" that broadband would be True cable (DOCSIS), but that *definitely* is not an option.) I've reached the conclusion that I can survive without the landline phone. BUT... I wonder if I can piggyback 3BB ADSL onto a TT&T line like I had up until I moved out 2.5 years ago?

Installing WiFI on an adjacent building? Not sure how to arrange that...

I see mobile phones and wireless modems in his future. Who needs a land line now anyway?

I started another thread in the "Mobile Internet Devices" forum about just that! Hopefully, I can find something more solid, but in a pinch, I could make do with 3G. In fact, the past several days, I've been using the TrueMove-H 3G on my iPhone tethered to my notebook. I have 3GB/month data on my plan and will see how fast this runs out. I haven't moved in full-time yet. I'm cleaning, repairing, renovating in preparation for the big move. Hopefully a big move to my old condo with a new broadband line.

Hello, If you want can connect you to the internet in that building (16MB), if interested can send mail to [email protected]

Forum PM and e-mail sent!

[lomatopo]

You could also check on one of the P2P WiFI solutions like AIS AirNET, TOT WiNET and even 3BB have a similar solution. Obviously these are more rural solutions but AirNET is popping up in metro Bangkok.

[thaibeachlovers]

Everytime I see anything about property in LOS, it just makes me glad that I never bought any here.

[johnlandy]

Thanks for that pithy truism.

Well here is another for you related to I want an e-mail address, as I want all correspondence in writing what you want and what you actually get is likely to be poles apart. Thais are perhaps the worst

in the world insofar as communications are concerned. They are reluctant to commit themselves to something that might well bite them in the ass later.

From personal experience it is also likely that the management committee have made the decision to downgrade (disconnect) the telephones so the engineer and the manager are just the messengers,

"and shooting either one (or both) of them will achieve nothing"

Apart from TIT 'good luck'