Iraq violence killed more than 800 people in August - UN

[News_Editor]

BAGHDAD, IRAQ (BNO NEWS) -- More than 800 people were killed and thousands were injured in a wave of violence across Iraq in August, the latest month that saw mass killings amid fears that widespread sectarian strife will continue to escalate, the United Nations (UN) said on Sunday.

At least 804 Iraqis were killed and another 2,030 were wounded in violence across the country in August, according to figures released by the United Nations Assistance Mission for Iraq (UNAMI). The number of fatalities includes 610 civilians, 106 civilian police officers, and 88 members of the Iraqi Security Forces (ISF).

"Despite the decrease in casualty figures in August, compared to July, the impact of violence on civilians remains disturbingly high, with almost 5,000 civilians killed and 12,000 injured since the beginning of 2013," said Jacqueline Badcock, the UN's Deputy Special Representative for Iraq.

Similar to previous months, Baghdad was the worst affected province last month with no less than 1,272 civilian casualties, including 517 fatalities and 955 injured. It was followed in terms of casualties by Saladin province, Ninawa province, Diyala province, and Al Anbar governorate.

The casualties in August follow at least 1,057 Iraqis who were killed in violence across the country in the month of July, making it the worst monthly toll in more than five years. At least 761 people were killed in June, 1,045 people in May, 712 people in April, and at least 229 people in March.

The Iraqi government has disputed some of the death toll, but UNAMI said its figures are conservative and rely on direct investigation along with credible secondary sources. "UNAMI figures are conservative and may under-report the actual number of civilians killed and injured for a variety of reasons," it said.

In early June, then-UNAMI head Martin Kobler called the figures a "sad record" and urged Iraqi political leaders to act immediately to "stop this intolerable bloodshed." His comments came just days after he warned that systemic violence is "ready to explode at any moment" if the country's leaders fail to take immediate action.

Although violence in Iraq had generally declined dramatically since its peak in 2006 and 2007, political turmoil and sectarian violence has been on the rise following the pullout of the last U.S. soldiers in mid-December 2011. At least 4,608 people are known to have died in violence across Iraq so far this year.

(Copyright 2013 by BNO News B.V. All rights reserved. Info: [email protected].)

[Scott]

Inflammatory, off-topic post removed.

[johna]

Anyone remember all that talk of "if you break it you own it" during Operation Iraqi Freedom, the coalition forces proved themselves pretty good at breaking things, and are conspicuously absent in the repair part of that operation.

[Sing_Sling]

Yet another military operation by the US and UK a complete success . . . qed

[simple1]

Yet another military operation by the US and UK a complete success . . . qed

Yep, right now a complete policy failure. The list of atrocities by both government agencies and non-state actors is endless. An example below, detail at:

http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/204572.pdf

"There were also regular incidents of the Al Qaeda targeting Sunni tribal leaders and Sunnis cooperating with the government, including against the Sons of Iraq, also known as the Sahwa (Awakening) movement. On November 28 in Tarmiyah, in Baghdad Province, gunmen broke into the house of a Sahwa member and killed him and six members of his family, including three young children, while they were sleeping"

[F430murci]

Yet another military operation by the US and UK a complete success . . . qed

Yep, right now a complete policy failure. The list of atrocities by both government agencies and non-state actors is endless. An example below, detail at:

http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/204572.pdf

"There were also regular incidents of the Al Qaeda targeting Sunni tribal leaders and Sunnis cooperating with the government, including against the Sons of Iraq, also known as the Sahwa (Awakening) movement. On November 28 in Tarmiyah, in Baghdad Province, gunmen broke into the house of a Sahwa member and killed him and six members of his family, including three young children, while they were sleeping"

Does this not really boil down to moral compass and philosophical beliefs of those involved in the violence. There is simply no excuse for what they are doing and continue to do. Yes, they can continue to blame it on the Americans. They even blame it on us when the blow up innocent civilians in other countries or fly planes into buildings. BS. These people are cold blooded killers and kill because they are whack jobs.

[FDog]

Iraq is proof positive that democracy is not for all countries and should not be forced on countries. Some countries need a leader that rules with an iron fist, it is the only way to keep the factions in check.

My own view is that Sadam Hussein being in power was a better option than the one we are now left with.

[GentlemanJim]

Mission Accomplished

Is this the role model they want to use for Syria?

These people are cold blooded killers and kill because they are whack jobs.

Which groups are you talking about exactly F430murci? I hope you include Congress and the administration. By the way this may come as a shock to you and I hope it's not to big of a surprise but nobody from Iraq flew any aircraft into any buildings. Every days a school day eh

[MikeOboe57]

Yet another military operation by the US and UK a complete success . . . qed

Yep, right now a complete policy failure. The list of atrocities by both government agencies and non-state actors is endless. An example below, detail at:

http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/204572.pdf

"There were also regular incidents of the Al Qaeda targeting Sunni tribal leaders and Sunnis cooperating with the government, including against the Sons of Iraq, also known as the Sahwa (Awakening) movement. On November 28 in Tarmiyah, in Baghdad Province, gunmen broke into the house of a Sahwa member and killed him and six members of his family, including three young children, while they were sleeping"

Does this not really boil down to moral compass and philosophical beliefs of those involved in the violence. There is simply no excuse for what they are doing and continue to do. Yes, they can continue to blame it on the Americans. They even blame it on us when the blow up innocent civilians in other countries or fly planes into buildings. BS. These people are cold blooded killers and kill because they are whack jobs.

We won't let you off so easily. It boils down - if you want to put it like that - to an idiot with an agenda. The Invasion of Iraq, "Operation Iraqi Freedom" or, more precisely, "Operation Incredible F...-up", was doomed to failure from the start. The only achievement was the "Blitzkrieg" - style victory, thereafter everything went downhill.

1. The US troops were never able to restore and maintain law and order - an obligation when you occupy a foreign country and remove its leader. The ensuing riots and the widespread looting were labelled by a smirking "trio infernale" (Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld) as simply "letting off steam" after getting rid of Saddam, ruining the American reputation with the ordinary Iraqi citizens .

2. While the Iraqi army simply disappeared and dissolved, their weapons piled up all over the country. Wary citizens and less friendly indiviuals with various agendas eagerly helped themselves to anything they needed, while the US military was stumbling through the Iraqi desert looking for the weapons of "meeess destruction".

3. Paul Bremer, appointed as presidential envoy to Iraq, who managed to turn the chaos into an insurgency by making knee-jerk decisions like "De-Ba'athification", the total disbanding of the Iraqi Armed forces, and the blatant neglect of the Iraqi Police Force which became infiltrated by Shia militia groups and criminal gangs.

4. The ambitious and reckless "nation building" road map to elections and a new constitution which alienated and excluded the Sunni minority from participation in the "New Iraq" and laid the foundation for the horrific sectarian violence.

The book "No End in Sight" by Charles H. Ferguson describes this gigantic blunder in all detail. You should read it.

Neither in Iraq nor in Libya did the US bother to assume authority to restore and maintain law and order for the necessary period of time to establish democratic societies. In Iraq they simply were too dumb to realize that they had taken the lid off a lawless society which had only been restrained by the fear of punishment. In Libya this option was never a possibility as they - and their "coalition of the willing" had simply expanded the UNSC resolution establishing a no-fly-zone and an arms embargo to close-air-support, commando units on ground and a major arms supply operation. The result here is a "somalization" of Libya - a weak central government that can neither enforce law and order in the country nor reign in the various armed militias and has to rely on their goodwill for its survival.

And you still wonder why a lot of people are reluctant to give the US another carte blanche for a military adventure in Syria?

edit: grammar

Edited September 2, 2013 by MikeOboe57

[F430murci]

Yes, but move on. I agree Busf f'ed up, but that does not cause these morons to act like terrorist and blow up innocent people. That is their decision.

Love how no one condemns the terrorist acts and killing of innocents occurring right now. This is pretty much like saying black people in US have a free pass and carte Blanche to kill in US because of slavery.

As long as you make excuses for them and they play that card, nothing will change. I just don't see how you don't get it. Judgment clouded but resentment or something. Time for these people to step up and say let's get this straightened out and rebuild not tear down and slaughter innocents.

Edited September 3, 2013 by Scott
formatting

[F430murci]

Mission Accomplished

Is this the role model they want to use for Syria?

These people are cold blooded killers and kill because they are whack jobs.

Which groups are you talking about exactly F430murci? I hope you include Congress and the administration. By the way this may come as a shock to you and I hope it's not to big of a surprise but nobody from Iraq flew any aircraft into any buildings. Every days a school day eh

No. This is more of a dysfunction on your part and it is the same mentality, whether Iraq did it or not, that leads those to fly planes into building and blame innocents. Unfortunate if that is too much of a logic leap for you.

Do you guys really get how bad the argument that US screwed up because it did not foresee that without a strong handed leader like Sadam, people would go whack and commit terrorist acts against innocent women and children. Okay, so you are basically insinuating that these people committing these terrorist acts are comparable to zoo animals needing to be kept behind protective barriers or confined in some manner.

[Sing_Sling]

Yet another military operation by the US and UK a complete success . . . qed

Yep, right now a complete policy failure. The list of atrocities by both government agencies and non-state actors is endless. An example below, detail at:

http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/204572.pdf

"There were also regular incidents of the Al Qaeda targeting Sunni tribal leaders and Sunnis cooperating with the government, including against the Sons of Iraq, also known as the Sahwa (Awakening) movement. On November 28 in Tarmiyah, in Baghdad Province, gunmen broke into the house of a Sahwa member and killed him and six members of his family, including three young children, while they were sleeping"

Does this not really boil down to moral compass and philosophical beliefs of those involved in the violence. There is simply no excuse for what they are doing and continue to do. Yes, they can continue to blame it on the Americans. They even blame it on us when the blow up innocent civilians in other countries or fly planes into buildings. BS. These people are cold blooded killers and kill because they are whack jobs.

No, it doesn't - the US went into a country and destroyed its social fabric . . . and no - Iraq didn't fly planes into buildings.

The whackjobs are in Washington - and all across the US - the ones who are too thick to understand consequences

Yes, but move on. I agree Busf f'ed up, but that does not cause these morons to act like terrorist and blow up innocent people. That is their decision.

Love how no one condemns the tourist acts and killing of innocents occurring right now. This is pretty much like saying black people in US have a free pass and carte Blanche to kill in US because of slavery.

As long as you make excuses for them and they play that card, nothing will change. I just don't see how you don't get it. Judgment clouded but resentment or something. Time for these people to step up and say let's get this straightened out and rebuild not tear down and slaughter innocentsz

Move on? Are you serious? 'You' made a massive pile of dung and then want everyone to simply 'move on'? 'You' killed thousands and then everyone should just 'move on'?

Did you air your views on 'moving on' when thousands of Americans were killed in the WTC?

Nothing to see here, folks - move along, move on

[Scott]

Let's stay on topic and keep our remarks directed at the topic and not other posters.

[JDGRUEN]

I think the people of Iraq should be left to sort it out ... eventually the winner shall prevail ... I just do not understand all the hand wringing ? The same for Syria ... let the local people sort it out ... after all Civil Wars have come and gone ... One Great One did in the USA and the Nation Survived ...

[lomatopo]

http://www.iraqbodycount.org/

Off to a roaring start in September:

Sunday 1 September: 73 killed

Camp Ashraf: 52 reported killed in clashes.

Tuz Khurmato: 6 by suicide car bomber.

Dujail: 5 family members by IED.

Tikrit: 3 by IEDs.

Ramadi: 3 policemen by suicide car bomber.

Mosul: 1 policeman by gunfire.

Baiji: 1 policeman by IED.

Amiriyat Falluja: 1 policeman by mortars.

Muqdadiya: 1 by IED.

AUGUST TOTAL: 915 CIVILIANS KILLED

It would have helped if some of the neo-con chuckle-heads had even a remote clue about the Shi'a - Sunni split in Iraq? And what would obviously happen once we de-stabilized the country.

Oh well, live and learn, then forget. Rinse, repeat.

Edited September 3, 2013 by lomatopo

[simple1]

The current escalation of violence is yet again the Sunni extremists endeavour to ignite a civil war to gain power. Belatedly the majority Shiite government is seeking support from anti Al Qaeda Sunni tribes to suppress the extremists. Discrimination and nearly zero action to update the constitution and applicable laws by the Iraqi government add fuel to the fire.

Previously, coupled with a "surge" of US troops, and an overall change in strategy, the co-opting of the Sunni tribes and the rise of the Sahwa, who numbered around 100,000 at their peak, are seen as having been crucial to the decline in violence in Iraq from 2008 onwards. But since US forces handed over responsibility for the Sahwa to Iraqi authorities, the militiamen have alleged poor treatment, delayed payment and a failure of the Shiite-led government to follow through on a promise to incorporate them into the civil service and conventional security forces. Now, with violence at its worst level since Iraq was emerging from that sectarian war, the Sahwa appear to once again be an important part of strategies to combat attacks.

http://news.yahoo.com/violence-worsens-iraq-again-turns-sunni-tribes-115838867.html

[F430murci]

Yet another military operation by the US and UK a complete success . . . qed

Yep, right now a complete policy failure. The list of atrocities by both government agencies and non-state actors is endless. An example below, detail at:

http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/204572.pdf

"There were also regular incidents of the Al Qaeda targeting Sunni tribal leaders and Sunnis cooperating with the government, including against the Sons of Iraq, also known as the Sahwa (Awakening) movement. On November 28 in Tarmiyah, in Baghdad Province, gunmen broke into the house of a Sahwa member and killed him and six members of his family, including three young children, while they were sleeping"

Does this not really boil down to moral compass and philosophical beliefs of those involved in the violence. There is simply no excuse for what they are doing and continue to do. Yes, they can continue to blame it on the Americans. They even blame it on us when the blow up innocent civilians in other countries or fly planes into buildings. BS. These people are cold blooded killers and kill because they are whack jobs.

No, it doesn't - the US went into a country and destroyed its social fabric . . . and no - Iraq didn't fly planes into buildings.

The whackjobs are in Washington - and all across the US - the ones who are too thick to understand consequences

Yes, but move on. I agree Busf f'ed up, but that does not cause these morons to act like terrorist and blow up innocent people. That is their decision.

Love how no one condemns the tourist acts and killing of innocents occurring right now. This is pretty much like saying black people in US have a free pass and carte Blanche to kill in US because of slavery.

As long as you make excuses for them and they play that card, nothing will change. I just don't see how you don't get it. Judgment clouded but resentment or something. Time for these people to step up and say let's get this straightened out and rebuild not tear down and slaughter innocentsz

Move on? Are you serious? 'You' made a massive pile of dung and then want everyone to simply 'move on'? 'You' killed thousands and then everyone should just 'move on'?

Did you air your views on 'moving on' when thousands of Americans were killed in the WTC?

Nothing to see here, folks - move along, move on

Well then, by all means DON'T move on and just keep blowing each other up then and blame it on whomever you want.

According to your logic, the US would have started blowing each other up after and in response to the WTC. It's almost like you want to continue to see people die so you can hang on to your resentment a little tighter.

BTW I did not kill anyone. Therein lies the problem in the way you view things, much like terrorist targeting innocent people because they deserve it. Haha, shady man, real shady.

Edited September 3, 2013 by F430murci

[MikeOboe57]

Yes, but move on. I agree Busf f'ed up, but that does not cause these morons to act like terrorist and blow up innocent people. That is their decision.

Love how no one condemns the terrorist acts and killing of innocents occurring right now. This is pretty much like saying black people in US have a free pass and carte Blanche to kill in US because of slavery.

As long as you make excuses for them and they play that card, nothing will change. I just don't see how you don't get it. Judgment clouded but resentment or something. Time for these people to step up and say let's get this straightened out and rebuild not tear down and slaughter innocents.

Your answer makes it obvious that you, too, have no valid reason why after Iraq and Libya the US should be given green light by the United Nations for fustercluck number 3.

[Scott]

This thread is starting to go off-topic. Posts have been and will continue to be deleted. The thread is about violence in Iraq. Stick to the topic, please.

[lomatopo]

Tuesday 3 September: 81 killed.

Baghdad: 60 killed by gunfire, bombs.

Latifiya: 10 family members by gunfire.

Jbala: 5 by car bomb.

Mosul: 2 in clashes.

Basra: 1 cleric by gunfire.

Mussayab: 1 by bomb at stadium.

Riyadh: 1 body.

Falluja: 1 engineer by gunfire.

September casualties so far: 187 civilians killed.

Gunmen kill 16 members of Shi'ite family in Iraq

BAGHDAD | Wed Sep 4, 2013 5:11am EDT

(Reuters) - Gunmen shot dead 16 members of the same Shi'ite family before blowing up their two neighboring homes south of the Iraqi capital overnight, police and medics said.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/09/04/us-iraq-violence-idUSBRE9820SB20130904

[Sing_Sling]

Does this not really boil down to moral compass and philosophical beliefs of those involved in the violence. There is simply no excuse for what they are doing and continue to do. Yes, they can continue to blame it on the Americans. They even blame it on us when the blow up innocent civilians in other countries or fly planes into buildings. BS. These people are cold blooded killers and kill because they are whack jobs.

No, it doesn't - the US went into a country and destroyed its social fabric . . . and no - Iraq didn't fly planes into buildings.

The whackjobs are in Washington - and all across the US - the ones who are too thick to understand consequences

Yes, but move on. I agree Busf f'ed up, but that does not cause these morons to act like terrorist and blow up innocent people. That is their decision.

Love how no one condemns the tourist acts and killing of innocents occurring right now. This is pretty much like saying black people in US have a free pass and carte Blanche to kill in US because of slavery.

As long as you make excuses for them and they play that card, nothing will change. I just don't see how you don't get it. Judgment clouded but resentment or something. Time for these people to step up and say let's get this straightened out and rebuild not tear down and slaughter innocentsz

Move on? Are you serious? 'You' made a massive pile of dung and then want everyone to simply 'move on'? 'You' killed thousands and then everyone should just 'move on'?

Did you air your views on 'moving on' when thousands of Americans were killed in the WTC?

Nothing to see here, folks - move along, move on

Well then, by all means DON'T move on and just keep blowing each other up then and blame it on whomever you want.

According to your logic, the US would have started blowing each other up after and in response to the WTC. It's almost like you want to continue to see people die so you can hang on to your resentment a little tighter.

BTW I did not kill anyone. Therein lies the problem in the way you view things, much like terrorist targeting innocent people because they deserve it. Haha, shady man, real shady.

Not quite sure why you're laughing about people being killed, but to each their own I guess and your implication that I view things much like a terrorist? At least we are not into hyperbole on this thread.

Would you deny that violence in Iraq is worse now than under Sadaam?

[NeverSure]

Yet another military operation by the US and UK a complete success . . . qed

Yep, right now a complete policy failure. The list of atrocities by both government agencies and non-state actors is endless. An example below, detail at:

http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/204572.pdf

"There were also regular incidents of the Al Qaeda targeting Sunni tribal leaders and Sunnis cooperating with the government, including against the Sons of Iraq, also known as the Sahwa (Awakening) movement. On November 28 in Tarmiyah, in Baghdad Province, gunmen broke into the house of a Sahwa member and killed him and six members of his family, including three young children, while they were sleeping"

Does this not really boil down to moral compass and philosophical beliefs of those involved in the violence. There is simply no excuse for what they are doing and continue to do. Yes, they can continue to blame it on the Americans. They even blame it on us when the blow up innocent civilians in other countries or fly planes into buildings. BS. These people are cold blooded killers and kill because they are whack jobs.

We won't let you off so easily. It boils down - if you want to put it like that - to an idiot with an agenda. The Invasion of Iraq, "Operation Iraqi Freedom" or, more precisely, "Operation Incredible F...-up", was doomed to failure from the start. The only achievement was the "Blitzkrieg" - style victory, thereafter everything went downhill.

1. The US troops were never able to restore and maintain law and order - an obligation when you occupy a foreign country and remove its leader. The ensuing riots and the widespread looting were labelled by a smirking "trio infernale" (Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld) as simply "letting off steam" after getting rid of Saddam, ruining the American reputation with the ordinary Iraqi citizens .

2. While the Iraqi army simply disappeared and dissolved, their weapons piled up all over the country. Wary citizens and less friendly indiviuals with various agendas eagerly helped themselves to anything they needed, while the US military was stumbling through the Iraqi desert looking for the weapons of "meeess destruction".

3. Paul Bremer, appointed as presidential envoy to Iraq, who managed to turn the chaos into an insurgency by making knee-jerk decisions like "De-Ba'athification", the total disbanding of the Iraqi Armed forces, and the blatant neglect of the Iraqi Police Force which became infiltrated by Shia militia groups and criminal gangs.

4. The ambitious and reckless "nation building" road map to elections and a new constitution which alienated and excluded the Sunni minority from participation in the "New Iraq" and laid the foundation for the horrific sectarian violence.

The book "No End in Sight" by Charles H. Ferguson describes this gigantic blunder in all detail. You should read it.

Neither in Iraq nor in Libya did the US bother to assume authority to restore and maintain law and order for the necessary period of time to establish democratic societies. In Iraq they simply were too dumb to realize that they had taken the lid off a lawless society which had only been restrained by the fear of punishment. In Libya this option was never a possibility as they - and their "coalition of the willing" had simply expanded the UNSC resolution establishing a no-fly-zone and an arms embargo to close-air-support, commando units on ground and a major arms supply operation. The result here is a "somalization" of Libya - a weak central government that can neither enforce law and order in the country nor reign in the various armed militias and has to rely on their goodwill for its survival.

And you still wonder why a lot of people are reluctant to give the US another carte blanche for a military adventure in Syria?

edit: grammar

What is all this blame everything on the US about? There were 4 countries involved in the initial invasion, including Great Britain and Australia. Link

Tony Blair was up to his eyeballs in it, including claiming weapons of mass destruction.

Before it was over, 40 countries got involved in that war, including Thailand. Link

Libya was a multinational force led by France. Cameron was all over it. Link

[Credo]

Is the violence worse now than under Saddam? Well that depends on which time period you wish to judge it by. During the Anfal campaign 100,000 ++ killed in 9 months, and virtually all were non-combatants. During the Iraq-Iran war a huge number killed. During his little excursion into Kuwait, a significant number died. So, unless you are going to Cherry pick certain dates, such as a Tuesday, in March of 19XX, the numbers being killed are probably relatively stable.

Saddam was also less than forthcoming about his murders. I seem to recall that the Halabja massacre went unreported for a time.

Saddam was always going to get himself into a mess. He was not content to hassle his own people, he was always eyeing the neighbors as well. He would have bumped merrily along for quite a while had he not run into the Village Idiot and his merry men.

For the Iraqi's things were a little more predictable under Saddam, but you really didn't want to be a Kurd or a Shiite or one of the other ethnic/religious groups he occasionally took a dislike to.

Edited September 17, 2013 by Credo

[boomerangutang]

Iraq is proof positive that democracy is not for all countries and should not be forced on countries. Some countries need a leader that rules with an iron fist, it is the only way to keep the factions in check.

My own view is that Sadam Hussein being in power was a better option than the one we are now left with.

It's a tough call - to say whether Iraq would be better or worse off if western powers had stayed out. Look at the pattern of events prior to western intervention: 2 wars (Iran and Kuwait) at least two chemical bomb attacks (against Kurds and Iranian boys), One take-over of another country (Kuwait), and daily atrocities against their own people (prisons and other killings). 800 killings in one month is atrocious, but who's to say it's worse than what might be happening is Hussein and his sadist sons still had their iron grip.

Then there's the choice: if you see abject harm going on against disadvantaged neighbors (let's say the girls down the block are getting raped and beaten daily), do you do nothing? call authorities (who are slow to respond, or worse), or take dynamic action to try and make things better?

US policy is often dynamic action.

[simple1]

Iraq is proof positive that democracy is not for all countries and should not be forced on countries. Some countries need a leader that rules with an iron fist, it is the only way to keep the factions in check.

My own view is that Sadam Hussein being in power was a better option than the one we are now left with.

It's a tough call - to say whether Iraq would be better or worse off if western powers had stayed out. Look at the pattern of events prior to western intervention: 2 wars (Iran and Kuwait) at least two chemical bomb attacks (against Kurds and Iranian boys), One take-over of another country (Kuwait), and daily atrocities against their own people (prisons and other killings). 800 killings in one month is atrocious, but who's to say it's worse than what might be happening is Hussein and his sadist sons still had their iron grip.

Then there's the choice: if you see abject harm going on against disadvantaged neighbors (let's say the girls down the block are getting raped and beaten daily), do you do nothing? call authorities (who are slow to respond, or worse), or take dynamic action to try and make things better?

US policy is often dynamic action.

I do not believe for one minute that the coalition invasion of Iraq had anything to do with assisting the Iraqi people with a better quality of life, at best a side issue. You will recall the Bush administration called upon the Shiites to rise up against Saddam. When they did so the coalition did not raise one finger to protect the Shiites in and around Basra who were being murdered in their thousands by the Iraqi Republican Guards; where was the manifestation of US 'dynamic action' in the best interests of the people being slaughtered?

Edited September 17, 2013 by simple1

[Credo]

Apparently, the US was following the advice of some of the posters during those slaughters and staying out of the mess.

Iraq was a a brutal country under Saddam. He killed a lot of people and many, if not most, of the deaths were unreported.

I am not sure what your anti-American rant is all about. As I said before, the death toll might just be in the same neighborhood as it is now had he remained.

The Kuwaitis didn't think he was a very nice person, that's for sure.

[lomatopo]

Well we (the U.S. of A.) did tolerate/assist/support/look the other way for a long time while Saddam Hussein "killed a lot of people".

Exclusive: CIA Files Prove America Helped Saddam as He Gassed Iran

The U.S. knew Hussein was launching some of the worst chemical attacks in history -- and still gave him a hand.

In 1988, during the waning days of Iraq's war with Iran, the United States learned through satellite imagery that Iran was about to gain a major strategic advantage by exploiting a hole in Iraqi defenses. U.S. intelligence officials conveyed the location of the Iranian troops to Iraq, fully aware that Hussein's military would attack with chemical weapons, including sarin, a lethal nerve agent.

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2013/08/25/secret_cia_files_prove_america_helped_saddam_as_he_gassed_iran

Back on topic, the run rate for September, with 574 casualties in Iraq so far seems to indicate that September may outpace August for violence?

[Sing_Sling]

Iraq is proof positive that democracy is not for all countries and should not be forced on countries. Some countries need a leader that rules with an iron fist, it is the only way to keep the factions in check.

My own view is that Sadam Hussein being in power was a better option than the one we are now left with.

It's a tough call - to say whether Iraq would be better or worse off if western powers had stayed out. Look at the pattern of events prior to western intervention: 2 wars (Iran and Kuwait) at least two chemical bomb attacks (against Kurds and Iranian boys), One take-over of another country (Kuwait), and daily atrocities against their own people (prisons and other killings). 800 killings in one month is atrocious, but who's to say it's worse than what might be happening is Hussein and his sadist sons still had their iron grip.

Then there's the choice: if you see abject harm going on against disadvantaged neighbors (let's say the girls down the block are getting raped and beaten daily), do you do nothing? call authorities (who are slow to respond, or worse), or take dynamic action to try and make things better?

US policy is often dynamic action.

I do not believe for one minute that the coalition invasion of Iraq had anything to do with assisting the Iraqi people with a better quality of life, at best a side issue. You will recall the Bush administration called upon the Shiites to rise up against Saddam. When they did so the coalition did not raise one finger to protect the Shiites in and around Basra who were being murdered in their thousands by the Iraqi Republican Guards; where was the manifestation of US 'dynamic action' in the best interests of the people being slaughtered?

Of course it wasn't . . . and calling a policy of invasion, bombing and slaughter 'dynamic action' is at best insulting.

I guess the 9/11 murderers were only exercising 'dynamic action' when they killed two thousand people

Apparently, the US was following the advice of some of the posters during those slaughters and staying out of the mess.

Iraq was a a brutal country under Saddam. He killed a lot of people and many, if not most, of the deaths were unreported.

I am not sure what your anti-American rant is all about. As I said before, the death toll might just be in the same neighborhood as it is now had he remained.

The Kuwaitis didn't think he was a very nice person, that's for sure.

Why wouod you think that every comment not complimentary towards the US is 'anti-American'? You do realise that non-Americans really couldn't give a toss about he McCarthy-ist 'stigma' attached to that form of argumentation?!

Your argument that the death toll may be the same had he stayed in power doesn't bear reality - all one can do is look at the deaths during and after . . . no-one here is a clairvoyant and supposition is as good as invading Iraq on spurious grounds.

Kuwaitis didn't like Sadaam . . . Ask Iraqis what hey think of the US

[boomerangutang]

ok, look at the death tolls, before and after. The numbers likely show more numbers dying before (during Saddam's reign) than after, particularly when you tally deaths from wars.

Western opinions before, during and after the various conflicts in M.East share similar themes. Just as now, with the Syrian debacle, there are those in favor and those opposed to intervention. Similarly, there is much debate over what degree of intervention, time-tables, weapons caches, repercussions for Israel, etc.

What we'd all like, is for Middle Easterners to fix their own problems, with their own resources, and try to lessen human suffering. We've long given up on whether they might safeguard or increase natural habitat for other species.

Just some of the many reasons we're not seeing improvements: their self-afflicting belief systems, dire lack of natural resources, masses of unemployed/testosterone-riven men, their pattern of always having brutal men dominate their lives, ....the list goes on.

[Credo]

@sing-sling, you said this...."Kuwaitis didn't like Sadaam . . . Ask Iraqis what hey think of the US

That is a rather spurious statement. Over 90,000 Iraqi immigrants in the US as of 2000 census. I think they aren't complaining much.

http://www.migrationinformation.org/usfocus/display.cfm?ID=113