step daughters father refusing permision to allow daughter out of the country

[KennethReed]

Hi all, i wonder if anyone else has had problems on this particular point, will give a little background, but aint going to huge detail (theres no real need at this point)

wife and I have been married for 6 years, 2 UK children, want to bring over the the wifes daughter who is 10 on a permanent visa, The child's father has had virtually no contact or shown no interest in the child before her birth, however he is refusing to sign a piece of paper stating that he will allow this (which he is legally entitled to do)

we have been trying to get him to agree for over 2 years, however he won't budge

The child lives with my wifes ageing and ailing parents, so we are going down the compassionate route with the application, anyone had any success with this particular strategy, or any other strategy whereby the errant father wont agree with the visa

(apologies for saying this but I know there are other issues around sole responsibility etc, really i do, that's not the point of the post though, i would like if possible to stick with topic)

[theblether]

Okay, let me ask the obvious question........have you offered to any financial compensation to the father? 100K might save a lot of stress.

[geriatrickid]

Instead of offering compensation, send him a lawyer's letter demanding he contribute to the child's upkeep. he'll get the message.

It can go both ways.

[ripstanley]

Was your wife married legally to her daughters father? That is was it registered at the Amphur office?

[KennethReed]

hi thanks for your replies, no they were never married, however the childs birth certificate is in the fathers name,

financial compensation, although nothing is 'off the table' has not been offered, basically cos a fter 6 years of marraige with 2 young children, there aint that much money available anyway, and secondly, my wifes folks are very proud, they want nothing from the man, and yes we know that it can go 2 ways, and he knows that aswell i think, the second way could be the worst result all round, from our perspective

[ripstanley]

Without formal marriage at the Amphur your wife has custody of the child. My wife was in the same situation. We live in northern Thailand. We obtained a passport for her child without the father giving consent. We went to the Amphur office with two witnesses from the village who signed statements that the daughter was living with her mother at the stated address. The Amphur then issued a document which we took to to the passport office. They then issued her a Thai passport.

Edited September 2, 2013 by ripstanley

[transam]

CASH.................................

[transam]

Instead of offering compensation, send him a lawyer's letter demanding he contribute to the child's upkeep. he'll get the message.

It can go both ways.

You think he will take any notice ........or it will be followed up...................... Noooooooooooooooooo.

[DannyDubai]

Hi all, i wonder if anyone else has had problems on this particular point, will give a little background, but aint going to huge detail (theres no real need at this point)

wife and I have been married for 6 years, 2 UK children, want to bring over the the wifes daughter who is 10 on a permanent visa, The child's father has had virtually no contact or shown no interest in the child before her birth, however he is refusing to sign a piece of paper stating that he will allow this (which he is legally entitled to do)

we have been trying to get him to agree for over 2 years, however he won't budge

The child lives with my wifes ageing and ailing parents, so we are going down the compassionate route with the application, anyone had any success with this particular strategy, or any other strategy whereby the errant father wont agree with the visa

(apologies for saying this but I know there are other issues around sole responsibility etc, really i do, that's not the point of the post though, i would like if possible to stick with topic)

Unless you have Thai friends with influence, then you'll just have to pay him.

[Basil B]

Instead of offering compensation, send him a lawyer's letter demanding he contribute to the child's upkeep. he'll get the message.

It can go both ways.

You think he will take any notice ........or it will be followed up...................... Noooooooooooooooooo.

I would hope pursuing him for maintenance would make him see sense, in Thailand are estranged father's liable to make contribution to to their offsprings upkeep?

[kunash]

you say ''The child lives with my wifes ageing and ailing parents,''

so, may I ask, what responsibility does your wife have over her child?

[theblether]

The answer is cash, GK has got it all wrong suggesting you go fixing for a fight. You are in no position to get involved in any type of long distance legal dispute. You'll end up getting milked by the lawyer and the case will stretch out as long as he wants it to.

To make it even worse, you might end up with the father swooping in and taking the child, saying that the mother abandoned her. How do you fancy them bananas? No one knows who is at the back of Thai family dynamics, always be careful, very careful of Thai Collective Intelligence.

There are far far far too many smart ass farangs out there that thought they could outwit the Thais and well, you know, ............................................................

Fill in the blanks yourself.

Sit down and work out a budget to buy him out, obviously go in low and see what happens. A spoonful of sugar and a bucket load of cash will go a long way, oh.......and tell him that she will get a fantastic education, which will lead to a wonderful job, with amazing money, so that she can look after him when he is old.

Edited September 2, 2013 by theblether

[steady]

I'm with the posters suggesting to pay him money. It's the easiest and probably cheapest option in the long run and the route most likely to succeed. Only point I would clarify first is to find out if you really do need his signature.

Perhaps you should also work hard to avoid your step daughter hearing about it. She could become very unsettled if you get the father's agreement (by any means) and then the British Embassy puts the block on it because sole responsibility can't be proved.

[arthurwait]

You've been trying for 2 years , but married for six ? Have you and your wife been living abroad for 6 years without the kid ?

Edited September 2, 2013 by arthurwait

[Darren McKenzie]

Instead of offering compensation, send him a lawyer's letter demanding he contribute to the child's upkeep. he'll get the message.

It can go both ways.

That's the right answer. Don't offer money. It'll make you look weak.

If you offer cash, they've won. And they'll just ask for more.

[Satcommlee]

The father should have no rights if they were never married, unless at some point they went to the amphur and the child made a declaration in front of the officials and accepted him as his/her father (usually after 7 years of age) or a court agreed to recognise him as the father.

Something don't seem right here..

[GrantSmith]

Without formal marriage at the Amphur your wife has custody of the child. My wife was in the same situation. We live in northern Thailand. We obtained a passport for her child without the father giving consent. We went to the Amphur office with two witnesses from the village who signed statements that the daughter was living with her mother at the stated address. The Amphur then issued a document which we took to to the passport office. They then issued her a Thai passport.

Why has everyone overlooked this post?

Keep your cash OP, find two witnesses from your wife's area and get them to the district office and sign off on it!

Job done...

[7by7]

hi thanks for your replies, no they were never married, however the childs birth certificate is in the fathers name,

From Thai Passport : Requirements for the Ordinary e-Passports Application

Applicants under the age of 15

If the applicant was born to parents who did not sign a marriage certificate, only the mother of the applicant can sign the parental consent form. She will need to bring a letter guaranteeing sole guardianship issued by her domicile district office (Por Kor 14) accompanied by her ID Card which must bear the title ‘Miss’.

Which seems to me to be saying that you don't need his signature or permission at all to obtain a passport for the child.

You certainly don't need it for the child's UK visa application; indeed including such in the application could cause problems as it would indicate that he and your wife share responsibility!

[irlguy1]

We were in the same situation and all it took was a trip to the amphur followed by a 5 minute visit to the local solicitor then 2 weeks later my wife had full custody.

If he has not contributed any cash and isn't able to show he has been a benefit in the child's life then you have no problem. Luckily for people in our position the guys have no rights to custody in Thailand.

Total cost to us 1000 Baht and a tip for the guy that dropped the papers off to us on his way home one night

[Satcommlee]

Seems you have your answers here, and a positive way forward!! Good luck!

[Jay Sata]

You say the grandparents want nothing to do with the man but does he want contact which perhaps they are trying to deny.

It appears he has not asked for money but was interested and committed to registering her birth.

Parental alienation syndrome is very common where access to a child is denied.

I'm sure she can get a passport but if he decides to block her move to the UK that could prove difficult. Nothing is a straight as it seems with Thai

law hence the Red Bull kid still being free and obstructing the charges laid against him.

Does she ever see him or have contact? If so that could prove problematic.

With a cheap visit to a lawyer he could tie you up in knots in the court system in Thailand for years.

If it's simply a case of negotiating some money then I'd pay it.

[wooloomooloo]

Parental alienation syndrome is very common where access to a child is denied.

Can you provide a digest of parental alienation syndrome, Jay?

[DannyDubai]

Instead of offering compensation, send him a lawyer's letter demanding he contribute to the child's upkeep. he'll get the message.

It can go both ways.

That's the right answer. Don't offer money. It'll make you look weak.

If you offer cash, they've won. And they'll just ask for more.

No your surroundings and loose the wholly western attitude. Somchai knows that no court will make him pay - he wont need to start climbing Big bleedin Ben in protest.

By paying when he signs off, the child has won. That's all that matters.

Weak is thinking a lawyer is going to take away his lao kow money.

[DannyDubai]

We were in the same situation and all it took was a trip to the amphur followed by a 5 minute visit to the local solicitor then 2 weeks later my wife had full custody.

If he has not contributed any cash and isn't able to show he has been a benefit in the child's life then you have no problem. Luckily for people in our position the guys have no rights to custody in Thailand.

Total cost to us 1000 Baht and a tip for the guy that dropped the papers off to us on his way home one night

Full custody can only be granted through the provincial family court. What your wife has is an Amphor custody, a por kor ill get the number later!

[MAJIC]

Instead of offering compensation, send him a lawyer's letter demanding he contribute to the child's upkeep. he'll get the message.

It can go both ways.

You think he will take any notice ........or it will be followed up...................... Noooooooooooooooooo.

Correct! people like this Guy always have a ready made excuse to avoid their responsibilities for providing for their children..........."have no money"

[7by7]

A Por Kor 6 is custody a custody document issued by an ampur; it is full, legal custody. But does require the agreement of both parents.

If the parents don't agree, then it will be necessary to go to court to have legal custody granted.

However, if the parents were not married then it is the mother who has custody.

A Por Kor 14 is a document issued by an ampur which basically confirms who has been looking after the child; in the OP's case that is the maternal grandparents.

Kenneth; ignore all the posts telling you to pay the father off; there is no need for you to do so.

Your wife and her parents can obtain a Por Kor 14 from her local ampur and with that she can obtain a passport for the child.

There is no need to involve the father at all.

See link to the MFA in my previous post.

You can then submit the child's UK visa application.

For that, the less contact etc. the father has had with the child, the better!

Edited September 2, 2013 by 7by7

[Jay Sata]

Parental alienation syndrome is very common where access to a child is denied.

Can you provide a digest of parental alienation syndrome, Jay?

I certainly can. I have been down that route with two children in a UK boarding school but only access to one.

http://www.parentalalienation.org.uk/

If you have seen the Nicholas Cage movie Captain Correlli's Mandolin you will be aware Louis De Bernieres wrote the novel.

Read how he suffered when access to his children was denied.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1303280/Corelli-author-Louis-Berni-res-left-mother-children-walks-out.html

It's quite common to hear about how bad the absent father was in Thailand but the reality is often a case that the ex wife and grandparents try to

stop access.

There are two sides to every story.

Edited September 2, 2013 by Jay Sata

[ikan]

kao san road doesnt offer these letters of consent? very strange.

[Jay Sata]

A Por Kor 6 is custody a custody document issued by an ampur; it is full, legal custody. But does require the agreement of both parents.

If the parents don't agree, then it will be necessary to go to court to have legal custody granted.

However, if the parents were not married then it is the mother who has custody.

A Por Kor 14 is a document issued by an ampur which basically confirms who has been looking after the child; in the OP's case that is the maternal grandparents.

Kenneth; ignore all the posts telling you to pay the father off; there is no need for you to do so.

Your wife and her parents can obtain a Por Kor 14 from her local ampur and with that she can obtain a passport for the child.

There is no need to involve the father at all.

See link to the MFA in my previous post.

You can then submit the child's UK visa application.

For that, the less contact etc. the father has had with the child, the better!

Unless you are the Thai father. That's a pretty heartless piece of advice if the guy still want's contact with his daughter.

Not being legally married is very common in Thailand but the father registered the birth suggesting he was not planning to abandon her.

As I read it he objects to his daughter leaving but there has been no suggestion he is holding the mother to ransom for cash.

[David Mault]

I had same problem. Wife's marriage was not registered, but recognition by Village Headman and villagers as living together as married couple. Wife split with ex husband whilst still pregnant with second child and 3 months before child was born. We took Village Headman, older sister and another villager to the Amphur where they made stat decs. to say father had never supported child since birth and infact had never seen the child. Received documentation from Amphur and able to get Thai passport and Visa for child to travel overseas. Hope this helps you. Good luck.