Syria's Assad says Western strike could trigger regional war

[Scott]

Posts and replies deleted.

Please stop the unnecessary and pedantic remarks directed at others.

Posters are not required to provide a link if they are expressing their own personal opinion.

[Tywais]

Post commenting on moderation removed. If you have a question regarding a moderator's position than PM them.

[StasD]

Putin is a tyrant.

you read too much western mass-media before going to bed. if tomorrow we will have election Putin would get about 80% again.

maybe he is not perfect but after permanent drunk Eltsin he seems to me very good

[Jingthing]

Putin is a tyrant.

you read too much western mass-media before going to bed. if tomorrow we will have election Putin would get about 80% again.

maybe he is not perfect but after permanent drunk Eltsin he seems to me very good

Not sure what being popular has to do with being a tyrant or dictator. There are a number of historical examples of popular dictators/tyrants.

[midas]

Putin is a tyrant.

you read too much western mass-media before going to bed. if tomorrow we will have election Putin would get about 80% again.

maybe he is not perfect but after permanent drunk Eltsin he seems to me very good

Not sure what being popular has to do with being a tyrant or dictator. There are a number of historical examples of popular dictators/tyrants.

But who determines the standards for being named as a ‘dictator or tyrant ‘after a person is voted in by a majority of his / her fellow country men and women ?

[Jingthing]

But who determines the standards for being named as a ‘dictator or tyrant ‘after a person is voted in by a majority of his / her fellow country men and women ?

In the long run, historians. In the short run, I get your point, there is a subjective aspect.

[StasD]

I do not know, maybe somebody sit in Washington or London and know better then Russian citizens who is mr.Putin: tyrant or dictator. But he trys to stop war or at least not let its expand. Therefore I like him. BTW the reason of any war is money. Syria is not an exeption

[Credo]

Most of the democratic and quasi-democratic countries that have elections elect the people that serve the domestic interests of the citizens. Foreign policy is an issue, but it doesn't usually make or break an election. (Yes, there are exceptions).

The Russians selected Putin, by hook or by crook, and they seem to be OK with him.

I don't agree with his stand on gay issues. I am suspicious of his stance on Syria, but if he can calm the situation we will all benefit--with the exception of the Syrian people. But I don't know that they would have benefit with the other outcome either.

[Baloo22]

REALITY CHECK: Syrian Government Use Of Chemical Weapons Is Truly Depraved

BBC News

-snip-

Right. It's depraved.

What you've failed to convince me of is why does the US have to be the world's policeman? Why doesn't Russia stop it? Why don't other ME countries such as Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Iran and others stop it?

Who elected the US to be the world's policeman? The taxpayers who'd have to pay for it and more accurately borrow more money for it don't want it. Congress doesn't want it. Great Britain doesn't want it. I haven't noticed the fine people in Canada or Australia signing up for it.

I don't want it. My American friends and neighbors don't want it.

WHO elected the United States of America to be the world's policeman?

The combination of the laws of war and US exceptionalism.

The US is joined in the effort by France, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Turkey and several dozen other countries that have condemned Assad's use of chemical weapons.

Do you realistically expect Russia, Iran, the CCP-PRC and at best other dubious states to become involved in this? Russia specifically is explicit in its support of Assad.

Saudi Arabia wants to go to the UN General Assembly about this.

You say "The US is joined in the effort by France, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Turkey and several dozen other countries that have condemned Assad's use of chemical weapons." I am eagerly awaiting the statements from the leaders of Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Turkey, and the "several dozen other countries" that they will be providing military forces for the attack on Syria.

Prime Minister Erdogan of Turkey has been one of the biggest cheerleaders of an attack on Syria. But he is very silent when it comes to providing Turkish military forces for such an attack. And Turkey does have substantial military assets that could be used in an attack upon Syria. All these other countries you mentioned can talk and make all the statements they want, but if they are not willing to commit their own military forces to the attack, their statements are just so much hot air in wind.

[Publicus]

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

― Edmund Burke

Strongly relevant to this thread IMHO.

I tend to agree with the sentiments expressed but I might disagree that it is relevant to this thread. This thread is much more about good men imploring other good men, not to act evilly in abetting one group of evil men over another group of evil men.

Which is a roundabout way of saying the only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

We have a dog in this fight. The dog may or may not win. And there's no win, place, show in this contest. So we need to train and equip our guys the best we can, get as many of our guys in there as we can and give them all the support we can.

There's nothing wrong with going for the gold.

[SinglePot]

I do not know, maybe somebody sit in Washington or London and know better then Russian citizens who is mr.Putin: tyrant or dictator. But he trys to stop war or at least not let its expand. Therefore I like him. BTW the reason of any war is money. Syria is not an exeption

You got any idea about the guy you are voting for?

[Publicus]

REALITY CHECK: Syrian Government Use Of Chemical Weapons Is Truly Depraved

BBC News

-snip-

Right. It's depraved.

What you've failed to convince me of is why does the US have to be the world's policeman? Why doesn't Russia stop it? Why don't other ME countries such as Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Iran and others stop it?

Who elected the US to be the world's policeman? The taxpayers who'd have to pay for it and more accurately borrow more money for it don't want it. Congress doesn't want it. Great Britain doesn't want it. I haven't noticed the fine people in Canada or Australia signing up for it.

I don't want it. My American friends and neighbors don't want it.

WHO elected the United States of America to be the world's policeman?

The combination of the laws of war and US exceptionalism.

The US is joined in the effort by France, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Turkey and several dozen other countries that have condemned Assad's use of chemical weapons.

Do you realistically expect Russia, Iran, the CCP-PRC and at best other dubious states to become involved in this? Russia specifically is explicit in its support of Assad.

Saudi Arabia wants to go to the UN General Assembly about this.

You say "The US is joined in the effort by France, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Turkey and several dozen other countries that have condemned Assad's use of chemical weapons." I am eagerly awaiting the statements from the leaders of Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Turkey, and the "several dozen other countries" that they will be providing military forces for the attack on Syria.

Prime Minister Erdogan of Turkey has been one of the biggest cheerleaders of an attack on Syria. But he is very silent when it comes to providing Turkish military forces for such an attack. And Turkey does have substantial military assets that could be used in an attack upon Syria. All these other countries you mentioned can talk and make all the statements they want, but if they are not willing to commit their own military forces to the attack, their statements are just so much hot air in wind.

I wouldn't argue with you on your points.

[FDog]

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

― Edmund Burke

Strongly relevant to this thread IMHO.

I tend to agree with the sentiments expressed but I might disagree that it is relevant to this thread. This thread is much more about good men imploring other good men, not to act evilly in abetting one group of evil men over another group of evil men.

Which is a roundabout way of saying the only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

We have a dog in this fight. The dog may or may not win. And there's no win, place, show in this contest. So we need to train and equip our guys the best we can, get as many of our guys in there as we can and give them all the support we can.

There's nothing wrong with going for the gold.

Well you may want the terrorists to win. I don't

[SinglePot]

*Edited due to font and bold*

Putin speaks out of both sides of his mouth.

He's such a phony and a liar he can't keep track of what he's saying, just that he's taking both sides in the New York Times at different times.

Yes, agreed, he is a phony and a liar and a tyrant and a conscience-less dictator . . . yet he still looks the saner party in all of this.

Hollywood must come to the rescue yet again

Putin is a dangerous dog. Why blame the dog handler?

[F430murci]

I do not know, maybe somebody sit in Washington or London and know better then Russian citizens who is mr.Putin: tyrant or dictator. But he trys to stop war or at least not let its expand. Therefore I like him. BTW the reason of any war is money. Syria is not an exeption

I think most Russians see through and distrust Putin, but what are they to do? Putin controls media, recently taken over social media such as vk.com, and has any legitimate or outspoken opposition arrested on trumped up charges. Those exposing voting fraud in 2011 where jailed or fled before being jailed. One journalist was executed. Yeah, great guy that Putin and most Russians fear him more than love him.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/daniel-alan-kennedy/russias-new-exiles_b_3430867.html

[Publicus]

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

― Edmund Burke

Strongly relevant to this thread IMHO.

I tend to agree with the sentiments expressed but I might disagree that it is relevant to this thread. This thread is much more about good men imploring other good men, not to act evilly in abetting one group of evil men over another group of evil men.

Which is a roundabout way of saying the only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

We have a dog in this fight. The dog may or may not win. And there's no win, place, show in this contest. So we need to train and equip our guys the best we can, get as many of our guys in there as we can and give them all the support we can.

There's nothing wrong with going for the gold.

Well you may want the terrorists to win. I don't

Stop it.

[SinglePot]

Assad and Putin are bullies.

Schoolyard bullies fear 2 things.

1. All the kids in the playground saying this ain't right, or

2. Somebody taking matters into their own hands.

Witness the rat in the sewer pipe Gaddafi.

[Sing_Sling]

you read too much western mass-media before going to bed. if tomorrow we will have election Putin would get about 80% again.

maybe he is not perfect but after permanent drunk Eltsin he seems to me very good

Not sure what being popular has to do with being a tyrant or dictator. There are a number of historical examples of popular dictators/tyrants.

Elections . . . popular elections.

Ask 48% of the American electorate what they think of Obama and a good percentage will say he is a dictator and tyrant . . . granted these people have half a brain at best, but the point is made

I do not know, maybe somebody sit in Washington or London and know better then Russian citizens who is mr.Putin: tyrant or dictator. But he trys to stop war or at least not let its expand. Therefore I like him. BTW the reason of any war is money. Syria is not an exeption

You got any idea about the guy you are voting for?

You have a valid point towards his post? Being snarky and avoiding his contents makes you look the fool

[Sing_Sling]

*Edited due to font and bold*

Putin speaks out of both sides of his mouth.

He's such a phony and a liar he can't keep track of what he's saying, just that he's taking both sides in the New York Times at different times.

Yes, agreed, he is a phony and a liar and a tyrant and a conscience-less dictator . . . yet he still looks the saner party in all of this.

Hollywood must come to the rescue yet again

Putin is a dangerous dog. Why blame the dog handler?

I'm sorry but I don't understand your post

[Chicog]

Assad and Putin lie when they accuse rebels of using chemical weapons.

That's a part of the "lie" in all of this, i.e., trying to defend Assad and Putin, pathetic mass murderers both.

What is Carla del Ponte's reason for "lying"?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/10039672/UN-accuses-Syrian-rebels-of-chemical-weapons-use.html

Even if she's telling the truth, that would be thrown out of court as heresay.

Top UN rights investigator Carla del Ponte said Sunday that according to testimony, rebels have been using sarin gas.

You'll find plenty of Alawites claiming that the opposition have used sarin gas.

[F430murci]

Assad and Putin lie when they accuse rebels of using chemical weapons.

That's a part of the "lie" in all of this, i.e., trying to defend Assad and Putin, pathetic mass murderers both.

What is Carla del Ponte's reason for "lying"?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/10039672/UN-accuses-Syrian-rebels-of-chemical-weapons-use.html

Even if she's telling the truth, that would be thrown out of court as heresay.

Top UN rights investigator Carla del Ponte said Sunday that according to testimony, rebels have been using sarin gas.

You'll find plenty of Alawites claiming that the opposition have used sarin gas.

Why are you guys cited a preliminary report from May. You do realize that her team led by Paulo Pinheiro has never been allowed into Syria to investigate and that the May report was based on interviews of people that have fled Syria, including Syrian army soldiers, I am sure a lot of reports, especially from army defectors, will be somewhat self serving when speaking to the group of individuals responsible for investigating and initiating prosecution of war crimes.

The team's most recent report in June cited "reasonable grounds" to believe that limited amounts of chemical weapons had been used and said that most testimony related to their alleged use by state forces.

Del Ponte has stated that she has never seen "such methods of torture even in the Balkans that I see now in Syria," Frickin savages these people.

Edited September 13, 2013 by F430murci

[SinglePot]

Circumstantial evidence suggests that Assad and Putin are highly dodgy.

It's not rocket science.

[Steely Dan]

A Western-Arab coalition have formed to train and arm both secular and moderate Islamist rebels to be more militarily effective.

The Western-Arab coalition consists of Saudi Arabia, Jordan, the US, the UK, France and a few others.

Prez Obama and the coalition have a strategy and approach to depose the Assad regime and to replace it with a moderate government that can be supported by the vast majority of the Syrian people.

This is a complex and difficult situation so it is being handled deftly by the Western-Arab coalition. The coalition is seeking to replace the current destabilizing regime with a new and fresh leadership that can provide stability in Syria and to the region.

Assad's statements, such as a military strike by the US could incite a regional war - which is the thread topic - are the wild statements of a desperate tyrant who will say anything, do anything, to preserve in power he and his family and their elite cronies.

If Assad (and Putin) believed a regional war might somehow save their regime, they would start one today.

Support the 'secular and moderate Islamist rebels', now there is at least one oxymoron in that sentence. Don't you realize this is the exact same Arab spring strategy that has failed so dismally in Tunisia, Egypt, Libya. All non Muslims are meddling in what amounts to a religious war, no good will come out of external interference from anybody.

[SinglePot]

A Western-Arab coalition have formed to train and arm both secular and moderate Islamist rebels to be more militarily effective.

The Western-Arab coalition consists of Saudi Arabia, Jordan, the US, the UK, France and a few others.

Prez Obama and the coalition have a strategy and approach to depose the Assad regime and to replace it with a moderate government that can be supported by the vast majority of the Syrian people.

This is a complex and difficult situation so it is being handled deftly by the Western-Arab coalition. The coalition is seeking to replace the current destabilizing regime with a new and fresh leadership that can provide stability in Syria and to the region.

Assad's statements, such as a military strike by the US could incite a regional war - which is the thread topic - are the wild statements of a desperate tyrant who will say anything, do anything, to preserve in power he and his family and their elite cronies.

If Assad (and Putin) believed a regional war might somehow save their regime, they would start one today.

Support the 'secular and moderate Islamist rebels', now there is at least one oxymoron in that sentence. Don't you realize this is the exact same Arab spring strategy that has failed so dismally in Tunisia, Egypt, Libya. All non Muslims are meddling in what amounts to a religious war, no good will come out of external interference from anybody.

Suggested solution?

[FDog]

A Western-Arab coalition have formed to train and arm both secular and moderate Islamist rebels to be more militarily effective.

The Western-Arab coalition consists of Saudi Arabia, Jordan, the US, the UK, France and a few others.

Prez Obama and the coalition have a strategy and approach to depose the Assad regime and to replace it with a moderate government that can be supported by the vast majority of the Syrian people.

This is a complex and difficult situation so it is being handled deftly by the Western-Arab coalition. The coalition is seeking to replace the current destabilizing regime with a new and fresh leadership that can provide stability in Syria and to the region.

Assad's statements, such as a military strike by the US could incite a regional war - which is the thread topic - are the wild statements of a desperate tyrant who will say anything, do anything, to preserve in power he and his family and their elite cronies.

If Assad (and Putin) believed a regional war might somehow save their regime, they would start one today.

Support the 'secular and moderate Islamist rebels', now there is at least one oxymoron in that sentence. Don't you realize this is the exact same Arab spring strategy that has failed so dismally in Tunisia, Egypt, Libya. All non Muslims are meddling in what amounts to a religious war, no good will come out of external interference from anybody.

Suggested solution?

Until they find their own solution just let it be. Some countries can only function with a dictator or tyrant. When democracy is forced then it can make it worse. We meddled in Iraq, a country with no al quaeda issues. Now it is rife with those issues.

Just move on, they can sort it themselves.

What is Obama's solution? Send in a few bombs which will assist the terrorists then sit back and let it be, until those terrorists are in power and we end up with another international problem. At the moment it isn't an international problem so why make it one.

Thanks to Putin for being the moderate in all this.

[Baloo22]

Assad and Putin are bullies.

Schoolyard bullies fear 2 things.

1. All the kids in the playground saying this ain't right, or

2. Somebody taking matters into their own hands.

Witness the rat in the sewer pipe Gaddafi.

Funny you should mention Gaddafi. Gaddafi renounced terrorism and expelled/cut ties with terrorist organizations like Abu Nidal. Gaddafi also renounced Libya's possession of weapons of mass destruction, decommissioning its chemical and nuclear weapons programs.

Look what it got him! A rain of western missiles and bombs! Now, exactly who are the schoolyard bullies?

If I was Assad, I would first, not trust any promise or guarantee from any western leaders, and second, never give up any of my weapons. Western leaders, Obama in the forefront has taught this lesson clearly!

[boomerangutang]

<quote> If I was Assad, I would first, not trust any promise or guarantee from any western leaders, and second, never give up any of my weapons. Western leaders, Obama in the forefront has taught this lesson clearly!</quote>

....never give up even chemical weapons? He's thought to have 1,000 tons. If you were Assad, wouldn't you trust your benefactor, Putin? In some circles (particularly from an Asian perspective), Putin is considered a westerner.

[F430murci]

"While the world's attention is on ensuring that Syria's government can no longer use chemical weapons against its population, we shouldn't forget that Syrian government forces have used conventional means to slaughter civilians," said Joe Stork, acting Middle East director at Human Rights Watch.

. . .

Syrian government forces and pro-regime militias summarily executed at least 248 men, women and children in one of the deadliest attacks since the start of the conflict in Syria more than two years ago, a report from Human Rights Watch said Friday.

A man who witnessed the aftermath of the attack, described the scene to the organization: "As we entered further into the house, we got to a room where we found so many corpses. Mothers and children piled on top of each other. One mother was still covering her son. I thought he may have survived but as I turned her over, I saw that he had been also shot."

Other bodies were found piled high in the streets bearing gunshot wounds to the head and chest, the report read.

http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/09/13/20465802-syria-government-forces-executed-at-least-248-civilians-human-rights-group?lite

[hawker9000]

I do not know, maybe somebody sit in Washington or London and know better then Russian citizens who is mr.Putin: tyrant or dictator. But he trys to stop war or at least not let its expand. Therefore I like him. BTW the reason of any war is money. Syria is not an exeption

I think most Russians see through and distrust Putin, but what are they to do? Putin controls media, recently taken over social media such as vk.com, and has any legitimate or outspoken opposition arrested on trumped up charges. Those exposing voting fraud in 2011 where jailed or fled before being jailed. One journalist was executed. Yeah, great guy that Putin and most Russians fear him more than love him.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/daniel-alan-kennedy/russias-new-exiles_b_3430867.html

Yeah, the guy's a real prince. Incidentally, lots there answering the question, "what is a dictator?".

[Scott]

An off-topic post has been deleted. Again, the topic is about Syria.