Thai-EU trade talks could kill cheap life-saving medicines

[webfact]

BURNING ISSUE
Thai-EU trade talks could kill cheap life-saving medicines
Pongphon Sarnsamak
The Nation

BANGKOK: -- Even though the first round of negotiations in Brussels on a Thailand-European Union Free Trade Agreement (Thai-EU FTA) were as smooth as silk, but observers say the second round - in Thailand later this month - will be much tougher.

The event will face strong opposition from more than 2,000 people from various civic groups nationwide. They will include medical patients, consumers and farmers protesting against unfair arrangements to be discussed under the FTA - such as an extension of drug patents from 20 years to 30, which would increase the price of pharmaceutical products and make them unaffordable for many Thais.

The negotiations were officially launched on March 6 by European Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso and Thai Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra.

The first round took place in Brussels from May 27-31. Negotiating teams discussed a wide range of areas including goods, rules of origin, services and investment, public procurement, competition, intellectual property, trade remedies, and trade and sustainable development.

Negotiations are expected to conclude in less than two years. Thai exports to the EU will enjoy lower taxes under the Generalised System of Preferences (GPS) until 2015, if the FTA can be concluded.

The next round of talks will be held in Chiang Mai, from September 16-20.

Even though the Thai-EU FTA will boost economic growth for both sides, Thailand could fall into a trap in the field of public health, Nimitr Tian-udom, director of the Aids Access Foundation, said.

"The EU's proposals under this FTA exceed the World Trade Organisation's regulations and would take advantage of Thailand instead of creating benefits for both sides," he warned.

In the negotiations, the EU has pressed Thailand to speed up its registration process - to issue patents for drug products as fast as it can. If the EU decides the process of issuing patents is too slow, it will extend patent terms for drug products, or will use the "ever-greening" of patents, to allow European drug makers to register a new product with old formulas that undergo small adjustments.

"If we accept these proposals, we would be committing suicide, as we would no longer be able to access cheap medicines," Nimitr said.

Moreover, local drug makers would face difficulties producing generic drug products. The EU would require Thailand to tighten measures to protect data related to these pharmaceutical products when they are submitted for the registration process, the so-called "data exclusivity".

Thai authorities would also be asked to arrest suspected counterfeit pharmaceutical products being sold along the border without any investigation to find out whether the products were fake or not.

Meanwhile, merchants making suspected counterfeit products would be listed as criminals.

And European investors would be allowed to file a complaint to arbitrators if they find that the government's regulations affect their businesses.

According to Nimitr, India would be a good model for Thailand when it negotiates with the EU - as India did not fall into such traps. It did not accept an extension of drug patent terms, because they would have destroyed generic drug makers and their pharmaceutical businesses, the world's largest suppliers of generic drugs.

Nimitr, however, believed the Thai negotiators would stick to their standing point of not accepting the EU proposal, which would destroy not only access to life-saving drugs for tens of thousands of Thais but also local pharmaceutical industries.

"Even if free trade is unavoidable, it must be fair enough [for all] to agree to," he said.


-- The Nation 2013-09-03

[anon467367354]

fair trade means the corporate giants get their self decided on fair share of the profits.

[robblok]

Not that I think its fair to extend the patents but the guy is talking BS.. for now every Thai can get free healthcare so the only one who would pay more is the government. It is not as if the people have to pay for it or else die. Its the government, this is false sentiment.

[historyprof]

Not that I think its fair to extend the patents but the guy is talking BS.. for now every Thai can get free healthcare so the only one who would pay more is the government. It is not as if the people have to pay for it or else die. Its the government, this is false sentiment.

I believe many life saving drugs are not covered under the Thai free health care plan to include chemo therapy for cancer and many others. I'm sure the lady who moderates the health forum would know but as far as I know your post is a false statement. When you are proved not correct you should come back and write that you are so anti government that you did not take the time to investigate the facts.

[zydeco]

Not that I think its fair to extend the patents but the guy is talking BS.. for now every Thai can get free healthcare so the only one who would pay more is the government. It is not as if the people have to pay for it or else die. Its the government, this is false sentiment.

I believe many life saving drugs are not covered under the Thai free health care plan to include chemo therapy for cancer and many others. I'm sure the lady who moderates the health forum would know but as far as I know your post is a false statement. When you are proved not correct you should come back and write that you are so anti government that you did not take the time to investigate the facts.

I think you are correct about the limited number of drugs included in Thai health care. The chemo, in particular, is 10,000 baht per treatment, a sum completely out of the realm of possibility for most Thais. I do think you are wrong about robblok, however. His is usually a voice of reason and experience on this board, although, like many of us, he sometimes gets frustrated with government folly and inefficiency--as during the great flood. The bigger issue, nonetheless, is that this free trade agreement would hurt most people's medical care in this country.

[robblok]

Not that I think its fair to extend the patents but the guy is talking BS.. for now every Thai can get free healthcare so the only one who would pay more is the government. It is not as if the people have to pay for it or else die. Its the government, this is false sentiment.

I believe many life saving drugs are not covered under the Thai free health care plan to include chemo therapy for cancer and many others. I'm sure the lady who moderates the health forum would know but as far as I know your post is a false statement. When you are proved not correct you should come back and write that you are so anti government that you did not take the time to investigate the facts.

I think you are correct about the limited number of drugs included in Thai health care. The chemo, in particular, is 10,000 baht per treatment, a sum completely out of the realm of possibility for most Thais. I do think you are wrong about robblok, however. His is usually a voice of reason and experience on this board, although, like many of us, he sometimes gets frustrated with government folly and inefficiency--as during the great flood. The bigger issue, nonetheless, is that this free trade agreement would hurt most people's medical care in this country.

I could be wrong, but I just get my info from the lady Sheryl at the healthcare forum she always says Thais don't have to pay in government hospitals.

[ginjag]

Not that I think its fair to extend the patents but the guy is talking BS.. for now every Thai can get free healthcare so the only one who would pay more is the government. It is not as if the people have to pay for it or else die. Its the government, this is false sentiment.

I believe many life saving drugs are not covered under the Thai free health care plan to include chemo therapy for cancer and many others. I'm sure the lady who moderates the health forum would know but as far as I know your post is a false statement. When you are proved not correct you should come back and write that you are so anti government that you did not take the time to investigate the facts.

I think you are correct about the limited number of drugs included in Thai health care. The chemo, in particular, is 10,000 baht per treatment, a sum completely out of the realm of possibility for most Thais. I do think you are wrong about robblok, however. His is usually a voice of reason and experience on this board, although, like many of us, he sometimes gets frustrated with government folly and inefficiency--as during the great flood. The bigger issue, nonetheless, is that this free trade agreement would hurt most people's medical care in this country.

I could be wrong, but I just get my info from the lady Sheryl at the healthcare forum she always says Thais don't have to pay in government hospitals.

How is it when I am at the pay desk There are a hundred or more Thais waiting to pay, Also a friends ID was out of the district area, and had to pay the same as foreigner.

Dental applies same, if your ID is not in the area you pay top whack.

[robblok]

I believe many life saving drugs are not covered under the Thai free health care plan to include chemo therapy for cancer and many others. I'm sure the lady who moderates the health forum would know but as far as I know your post is a false statement. When you are proved not correct you should come back and write that you are so anti government that you did not take the time to investigate the facts.

I think you are correct about the limited number of drugs included in Thai health care. The chemo, in particular, is 10,000 baht per treatment, a sum completely out of the realm of possibility for most Thais. I do think you are wrong about robblok, however. His is usually a voice of reason and experience on this board, although, like many of us, he sometimes gets frustrated with government folly and inefficiency--as during the great flood. The bigger issue, nonetheless, is that this free trade agreement would hurt most people's medical care in this country.

I could be wrong, but I just get my info from the lady Sheryl at the healthcare forum she always says Thais don't have to pay in government hospitals.

How is it when I am at the pay desk There are a hundred or more Thais waiting to pay, Also a friends ID was out of the district area, and had to pay the same as foreigner.

Dental applies same, if your ID is not in the area you pay top whack.

Because you are covered there where your housebook (blue book) says you are. So if anything bad happens you have to go to that place. They will refer you higher up. However if you are not at your designated place you will have to pay. So for small stuff they don't always go back. Remember many Thais are not living where they are recorded.

Also were you using a government hospital or private one ?.

I am not making this up go ask Sheryl at the health forum if you don't believe me.

[robblok]

Also i will make one thing clear, I am not for extension of the patents but I am talking about the arguments used here by the Thais those are wrong, if what i believe is right.

I have seen this discussion on the health forum a million times Thais have universal healthcare in government hospitals where they are registered with the blue housebook.

However if they go to other hospitals or private hospitals then they have to pay.

When my wifes father was dying we did not have to pay a thing as he was in the hospital where he was registered.

Edited September 3, 2013 by robblok

[historyprof]

Also i will make one thing clear, I am not for extension of the patents but I am talking about the arguments used here by the Thais those are wrong, if what i believe is right.

I have seen this discussion on the health forum a million times Thais have universal healthcare in government hospitals where they are registered with the blue housebook.

However if they go to other hospitals or private hospitals then they have to pay.

When my wifes father was dying we did not have to pay a thing as he was in the hospital where he was registered.

Drugs, treatments, surgeries, and care are fully covered except for drugs that don't come under the 'S List' ("important drugs list").

Newer drugs, or drugs currently being researched, are not free.

A Thai I know had cancer and the operation was free and they removed the cancerous part but chemo therapy was not free and I loaned him the money or he would have died.

Also millions of Thais pay for health insurance so they will be covered for any illness not just the ones covered by the universal health care plan even though they live where they are also covered by the free car plan.

[robblok]

Also i will make one thing clear, I am not for extension of the patents but I am talking about the arguments used here by the Thais those are wrong, if what i believe is right.

I have seen this discussion on the health forum a million times Thais have universal healthcare in government hospitals where they are registered with the blue housebook.

However if they go to other hospitals or private hospitals then they have to pay.

When my wifes father was dying we did not have to pay a thing as he was in the hospital where he was registered.

Drugs, treatments, surgeries, and care are fully covered except for drugs that don't come under the 'S List' ("important drugs list").

Newer drugs, or drugs currently being researched, are not free.

A Thai I know had cancer and the operation was free and they removed the cancerous part but chemo therapy was not free and I loaned him the money or he would have died.

Also millions of Thais pay for health insurance so they will be covered for any illness not just the ones covered by the universal health care plan even though they live where they are also covered by the free car plan.

Newer drugs and currently being researched drugs would still fall under the old model of 20 years patent.. so the extension would not change a thing. Its unreasonable to have no patents on medicine.

I would think that chemo would be an imporant drug.. i could be wrong here.. like I said ask sheryl she knows it much better as me.

That is their choice and as I said I think most important things are covered.

However I am against making an extra 10 years on medicine its crazy.

[ginjag]

Also i will make one thing clear, I am not for extension of the patents but I am talking about the arguments used here by the Thais those are wrong, if what i believe is right.

I have seen this discussion on the health forum a million times Thais have universal healthcare in government hospitals where they are registered with the blue housebook.

However if they go to other hospitals or private hospitals then they have to pay.

When my wifes father was dying we did not have to pay a thing as he was in the hospital where he was registered.

You are spot on. My comments were about Thai persons waiting to pay,(so maybe they are paying 30bht-or paying because out of district area.

My experience was at a Government hospital NOT private where I always attend so giving money to government and not into private hands, and see top doctors, or in my case teaching orthopedic physician.

[billd766]

Don't people understand?

This is not about the treatment and health of the population in general.

It is between the government, the EU and the drug companies profits.

It is ALL about money and people don't come into the equation.

[robblok]

Don't people understand?

This is not about the treatment and health of the population in general.

It is between the government, the EU and the drug companies profits.

It is ALL about money and people don't come into the equation.

That is what i thought and that is why i said they are using false arguments.

[lee b]

money talks thats the bottom line

[ginjag]

Don't people understand?

This is not about the treatment and health of the population in general.

It is between the government, the EU and the drug companies profits.

It is ALL about money and people don't come into the equation.

See #3

People eventually will come into the equation, IF the drugs are expensive and Thailand has to start to charge for all treatment.

Maybe we can barter in CM like rice for drugs ???

[historyprof]

Also i will make one thing clear, I am not for extension of the patents but I am talking about the arguments used here by the Thais those are wrong, if what i believe is right.

I have seen this discussion on the health forum a million times Thais have universal healthcare in government hospitals where they are registered with the blue housebook.

However if they go to other hospitals or private hospitals then they have to pay.

When my wifes father was dying we did not have to pay a thing as he was in the hospital where he was registered.

Drugs, treatments, surgeries, and care are fully covered except for drugs that don't come under the 'S List' ("important drugs list").

Newer drugs, or drugs currently being researched, are not free.

A Thai I know had cancer and the operation was free and they removed the cancerous part but chemo therapy was not free and I loaned him the money or he would have died.

Also millions of Thais pay for health insurance so they will be covered for any illness not just the ones covered by the universal health care plan even though they live where they are also covered by the free car plan.

Newer drugs and currently being researched drugs would still fall under the old model of 20 years patent.. so the extension would not change a thing. Its unreasonable to have no patents on medicine.

I would think that chemo would be an imporant drug.. i could be wrong here.. like I said ask sheryl she knows it much better as me.

That is their choice and as I said I think most important things are covered.

However I am against making an extra 10 years on medicine its crazy.

Some costly procedures are not covered—for example, cosmetic care, obstetric delivery beyond two pregnancies, organ transplant, chemotherapy, and renal dialysis.

Or you could call your local Thai insurance guy and ask him to explain the difference between the insurance given by the government, your employer and a private policy that you pay for.

Edited September 3, 2013 by historyprof

[TackyToo]

Don't people understand?

This is not about the treatment and health of the population in general.

It is between the government, the EU and the drug companies profits.

It is ALL about money and people don't come into the equation.

Sometimes I think Thais always want to suck up the whipped cream on top but not pay for the coffee.

There will be a lot more issues like this when it comes to join ASEAN.

[robblok]

Also i will make one thing clear, I am not for extension of the patents but I am talking about the arguments used here by the Thais those are wrong, if what i believe is right.

I have seen this discussion on the health forum a million times Thais have universal healthcare in government hospitals where they are registered with the blue housebook.

However if they go to other hospitals or private hospitals then they have to pay.

When my wifes father was dying we did not have to pay a thing as he was in the hospital where he was registered.

Drugs, treatments, surgeries, and care are fully covered except for drugs that don't come under the 'S List' ("important drugs list").

Newer drugs, or drugs currently being researched, are not free.

A Thai I know had cancer and the operation was free and they removed the cancerous part but chemo therapy was not free and I loaned him the money or he would have died.

Also millions of Thais pay for health insurance so they will be covered for any illness not just the ones covered by the universal health care plan even though they live where they are also covered by the free car plan.

Newer drugs and currently being researched drugs would still fall under the old model of 20 years patent.. so the extension would not change a thing. Its unreasonable to have no patents on medicine.

I would think that chemo would be an imporant drug.. i could be wrong here.. like I said ask sheryl she knows it much better as me.

That is their choice and as I said I think most important things are covered.

However I am against making an extra 10 years on medicine its crazy.

Some costly procedures are not covered—for example, cosmetic care, obstetric delivery beyond two pregnancies, organ transplant, chemotherapy, and renal dialysis.

Or you could call your local Thai insurance guy and ask him to explain the difference between the insurance given by the government, your employer and a private policy that you pay for.

Your well informed, only all those things have nothing to do with he patents they are discussing.

[GentlemanJim]

Well the lives of the normal Thai aren't really important when you consider the huge contractual kickbacks the Doctors and certain Government folks will get from the big European Pharma companies. Who needs or wants cheap medicines! None of the Thai's making the decisions on this will ever be in the position of having to queue up for healthcare at a Thai hospital for any serious ailment. They will be off to the US, UK or any other multitude of destinations.

I would be happy to see Thailand go ahead and enjoy lower taxation on products they export to Europe if they in turn would stop taxing European wine at 396% per bottle. There is a medicine we could all do with being cheaper

[Cuban]

On this occasion I strongly advise Thailand to have nothing to do with the EU it will ruin you.

[zyphodb]

Also i will make one thing clear, I am not for extension of the patents but I am talking about the arguments used here by the Thais those are wrong, if what i believe is right.

I have seen this discussion on the health forum a million times Thais have universal healthcare in government hospitals where they are registered with the blue housebook.

However if they go to other hospitals or private hospitals then they have to pay.

When my wifes father was dying we did not have to pay a thing as he was in the hospital where he was registered.

Drugs, treatments, surgeries, and care are fully covered except for drugs that don't come under the 'S List' ("important drugs list").

Newer drugs, or drugs currently being researched, are not free.

A Thai I know had cancer and the operation was free and they removed the cancerous part but chemo therapy was not free and I loaned him the money or he would have died.

Also millions of Thais pay for health insurance so they will be covered for any illness not just the ones covered by the universal health care plan even though they live where they are also covered by the free car plan.

Newer drugs and currently being researched drugs would still fall under the old model of 20 years patent.. so the extension would not change a thing. Its unreasonable to have no patents on medicine.

I would think that chemo would be an imporant drug.. i could be wrong here.. like I said ask sheryl she knows it much better as me.

That is their choice and as I said I think most important things are covered.

However I am against making an extra 10 years on medicine its crazy.

Some costly procedures are not covered—for example, cosmetic care, obstetric delivery beyond two pregnancies, organ transplant, chemotherapy, and renal dialysis.

Or you could call your local Thai insurance guy and ask him to explain the difference between the insurance given by the government, your employer and a private policy that you pay for.

Sorry for going off on a bit of a tangent here but when you say obstetric delivery beyond two pregnancies, Historyprof, my Wife is having her 4th Baby soon, ours, does this mean we're going to have to pay for the delivery at our local Government Hospital that she is blue book registered for?

[winstonc]

On this occasion I strongly advise Thailand to have nothing to do with the EU it will ruin you.

spot on its a disaster waiting to happen cuban......just a thought but thailand and free trade....competition..that wont rest easy over here..hahahahahaha

[BrianCR]

Slightly confused here - firstly there is the Universal Health Care System at 30 baht a throw for those who are not employed by Government of Companies etc. These people attend a government hospital. Then there is the Social Security System, for people in full time employment (Westerners and Thai)with monthly subscriptions between 420 -750 baht (depending on income) and with the same amount also being paid by your employer (this system also gives you a local pension at 60 years). With the SS you can designate a Government or private hospital in your area (working area).

The second bit about higher priced drugs will be paid for by the Government? Some hope for that, the 30 baht will be increased and SS monthly subscriptions will like wise be higher so, who pays in the end? The people!

PS. I could be wrong but in my experience and under the SS system you are covered for every and all costs of treatment

Edited September 3, 2013 by BrianCR

[Thai at Heart]

Not that I think its fair to extend the patents but the guy is talking BS.. for now every Thai can get free healthcare so the only one who would pay more is the government. It is not as if the people have to pay for it or else die. Its the government, this is false sentiment.

I believe many life saving drugs are not covered under the Thai free health care plan to include chemo therapy for cancer and many others. I'm sure the lady who moderates the health forum would know but as far as I know your post is a false statement. When you are proved not correct you should come back and write that you are so anti government that you did not take the time to investigate the facts.

I think you are correct about the limited number of drugs included in Thai health care. The chemo, in particular, is 10,000 baht per treatment, a sum completely out of the realm of possibility for most Thais. I do think you are wrong about robblok, however. His is usually a voice of reason and experience on this board, although, like many of us, he sometimes gets frustrated with government folly and inefficiency--as during the great flood. The bigger issue, nonetheless, is that this free trade agreement would hurt most people's medical care in this country.

So it means millionaires and those on the best government insurance have a higher cost. A little disingenuous.

[connda]

Thai-EU trade talks could kill cheap life-saving medicines

That's just the point. The trade agreements are good for lining the pockets of the rich, wealthy, and hi-so at the expense of making life saving pharmaceuticals out of the price range of any Thai who is not rich, wealthy, and hi-so. The Amart will sell the rest of Thai society right down the river. Bet on it.

[historyprof]

Robblok says, "guy is talking BS.. for now every Thai can get free healthcare so the only one who would pay more is the government. It is not as if the people have to pay for it or else die. Its the government, this is false sentiment."

I wrote, "Drugs, treatments, surgeries, and care are fully covered except for drugs that don't come under the 'S List' ("important drugs list"). Newer drugs, or drugs currently being researched, are not free. (It has been my experience this includes life saving chemo therapy drugs)

The OP says, "If we accept these proposals, we would be committing suicide, as we would no longer be able to access cheap medicines." "*Nimitr, believed the Thai negotiators would stick to their standing point of not accepting the EU proposal, which would destroy ... access to life-saving drugs for tens of thousands."

Nimitr Tian-udom is director of the Aids Access Foundation.

In my limited post Nimitr and I agree and Robblok says we are wrong. So who do you believe?

[historyprof]

Not that I think its fair to extend the patents but the guy is talking BS.. for now every Thai can get free healthcare so the only one who would pay more is the government. It is not as if the people have to pay for it or else die. Its the government, this is false sentiment.

I believe many life saving drugs are not covered under the Thai free health care plan to include chemo therapy for cancer and many others. I'm sure the lady who moderates the health forum would know but as far as I know your post is a false statement. When you are proved not correct you should come back and write that you are so anti government that you did not take the time to investigate the facts.

I think you are correct about the limited number of drugs included in Thai health care. The chemo, in particular, is 10,000 baht per treatment, a sum completely out of the realm of possibility for most Thais. I do think you are wrong about robblok, however. His is usually a voice of reason and experience on this board, although, like many of us, he sometimes gets frustrated with government folly and inefficiency--as during the great flood. The bigger issue, nonetheless, is that this free trade agreement would hurt most people's medical care in this country.

So it means millionaires and those on the best government insurance have a higher cost. A little disingenuous.

Absolute nonsense. Good health insurance for a Thai may be had for around 1500 baht a month. This is the difference between a government hospital and a first class private hospital. I know the difference because I have spent two weeks in a private room and a ward in each. The government hospital around 50,000 Baht and the private 200,000. There is a big difference and my wife has private insurance so she is treated at the same private hospital as I am and not stored in a bed next to the lift or forced to wait a week or two for a CT scan. So get off your high horse and look for some factual information. Health insurance in Thailand is not only for the rich it is very affordable for Thai people.

[NeverSure]

Thais have long been stealing patents not just on medicines, but they even run pirated copies of Windows in government offices and schools.

It costs a lot of money to bring a drug to market. I believe the US patent is 17 years. The drug company has to apply for the patent as soon as they have the med, but it can take as long as ten years after that for trials first on animals and then humans before the FDA will approve it for sale. That leaves 7 - 10 years for the drug company to recoup its costs and try to make a profit.

Who would go to that expense and trouble if there was no money in it? Do we want new break though drugs, or don't we?

One of the reasons that health care is cheap in LOS is theft of intellectual property.

If Thailand wants to join the rest of the world doing trade, it's going to have to stop stealing. I'll bet the hospitals run pirated copies of software.

Thai people are poor partly due to corruption. This is part of it. Thailand can't have it both ways. The people could prosper if Thailand would:

1. Stop being so protectionist with imports. Things would get cheaper by far, and more sales would occur. The lost taxes would be made up by merchants paying income taxes on greatly increased sales.

2. Stop stealing out of the other pocket and cut some deals with drug companies which can be done as proven by Canada.

Thailand's corruption is it's #1 problem and it can't join the world stage in its present form.

[Bagwan]

On this occasion I strongly advise Thailand to have nothing to do with the EU it will ruin you.

I was thinking much the same about dealings with the US.