do Thais and young expats save for their old age ?

[pigeonjake]

I am in my mid twenties and worked hard at a few things and better off than probably 99% of the people my age. I don't know what the future is going to bring but it is scary the way technology is making so many jobs and people obsolete. A computer can do so much more than you can do and whatever it is that you can do - you can now do it for less since there are so many other people not doing anything who would love to do what you do. Wages in the West are stagnating. The common theme amongst silly senior pensioners is that the youth is lazy. These guys are taking out/have taken out multiples of what they put into their pensions and benefits (pyramid scheme) and lived through the most prosperous golden era - it can be quite obnoxious at times for them to tell you about how lazy everyone is.

the computer will never do everything,

i work in the oil gass and power industry, and my money is going up every year,

yes i have to work all over the world, but i only work for 6 or 7 months of the year,

and as for saving, my wife and i live very well, but we still only spend about 30% of my wages, so things are looking very good in the jackson household,

[GuestHouse]

Money is for spending

Money has only one use - it gives the person who has money options.

As we frequently read here on TV - when the money runs out, the options run out.

By all means, spend all your money now if you wish, but don't come whinging that you can't afford to stay when it runs outs.

[Soutpeel]

Money is for spending

Money has only one use - it gives the person who has money options.

As we frequently read here on TV - when the money runs out, the options run out.

By all means, spend all your money now if you wish, but don't come whinging that you can't afford to stay when it runs outs.

"Money is for spending"...the comment is slightly amusing considering the poster concerned is reputed to be the area manager of a certain "financial advisory" company who peddles retirement polices....may be he means spending other peoples money ?...

[giggles]

boiler room scammers can always find suckers to support their retirement plans ,no doubt theres a few lurking on here .

stickman website is a good read ,but obviously he cant go on trawling the bars forever ,and as he gets older his options will be limited and his early career building years gone .

not having a pop at stickman just general observations about how the years fly by when you are living by the seat of your pants ...

[HardenedSoul]

boiler room scammers can always find suckers to support their retirement plans ,no doubt theres a few lurking on here .

stickman website is a good read ,but obviously he cant go on trawling the bars forever ,and as he gets older his options will be limited and his early career building years gone .

not having a pop at stickman just general observations about how the years fly by when you are living by the seat of your pants ...

I see the same 60+ year old blokes heading for soi Cowboy every day so I reckon that Stick's got a few years left in him.

He could sell that site for quite a lot of money I'm sure so I wouldn't fret about his future options.

I am curious though; just how pervasive is this notion that in order to have a "reasonable" standard of living in old age, one must have paid into some kind of retirement account or pension scheme for 30 or 40 years?

Surely anyone who's not doing heavy manual work can continue to work for years after 60/65?

[StreetCowboy]

boiler room scammers can always find suckers to support their retirement plans ,no doubt theres a few lurking on here .

stickman website is a good read ,but obviously he cant go on trawling the bars forever ,and as he gets older his options will be limited and his early career building years gone .

not having a pop at stickman just general observations about how the years fly by when you are living by the seat of your pants ...

I see the same 60+ year old blokes heading for soi Cowboy every day so I reckon that Stick's got a few years left in him.

He could sell that site for quite a lot of money I'm sure so I wouldn't fret about his future options.

I am curious though; just how pervasive is this notion that in order to have a "reasonable" standard of living in old age, one must have paid into some kind of retirement account or pension scheme for 30 or 40 years?

Surely anyone who's not doing heavy manual work can continue to work for years after 60/65?

I find that my colleagues' sharpness of wit dulls as they age, till some of our more senior chaps are really fit for nothing other than parliament

[arthurwait]

I am in my mid twenties and worked hard at a few things and better off than probably 99% of the people my age. I don't know what the future is going to bring but it is scary the way technology is making so many jobs and people obsolete. A computer can do so much more than you can do and whatever it is that you can do - you can now do it for less since there are so many other people not doing anything who would love to do what you do. Wages in the West are stagnating. The common theme amongst silly senior pensioners is that the youth is lazy. These guys are taking out/have taken out multiples of what they put into their pensions and benefits (pyramid scheme) and lived through the most prosperous golden era - it can be quite obnoxious at times for them to tell you about how lazy everyone is.

the computer will never do everything,

i work in the oil gass and power industry, and my money is going up every year,

yes i have to work all over the world, but i only work for 6 or 7 months of the year,

and as for saving, my wife and i live very well, but we still only spend about 30% of my wages, so things are looking very good in the jackson household,

It's as easy as A,B,C.

[farang000999]

I am in my mid twenties and worked hard at a few things and better off than probably 99% of the people my age. I don't know what the future is going to bring but it is scary the way technology is making so many jobs and people obsolete. A computer can do so much more than you can do and whatever it is that you can do - you can now do it for less since there are so many other people not doing anything who would love to do what you do. Wages in the West are stagnating. The common theme amongst silly senior pensioners is that the youth is lazy. These guys are taking out/have taken out multiples of what they put into their pensions and benefits (pyramid scheme) and lived through the most prosperous golden era - it can be quite obnoxious at times for them to tell you about how lazy everyone is.

the computer will never do everything,

i work in the oil gass and power industry, and my money is going up every year,

yes i have to work all over the world, but i only work for 6 or 7 months of the year,

and as for saving, my wife and i live very well, but we still only spend about 30% of my wages, so things are looking very good in the jackson household,

I do not even have to google to know that a lot of oil and gas power industry workers have been displaced/made useless because of technology. Oil and gas workers seem to be the 2nd category of super annoying people after the wealthy pensioners. and when people start topics 'how do i get a job in the o/g industry so i can make the good money like all these braggarts on thai visa" the answer is usually some variation of "well only the really experienced guys make the good money and it is very hard to get your foot in the job these days. there isn't a whole lotta opportunity". this is the trend in every industry in the world, job growth is in low paying jobs in the west.

Edited September 5, 2013 by farang000999

[StreetCowboy]

I am in my mid twenties and worked hard at a few things and better off than probably 99% of the people my age. I don't know what the future is going to bring but it is scary the way technology is making so many jobs and people obsolete. A computer can do so much more than you can do and whatever it is that you can do - you can now do it for less since there are so many other people not doing anything who would love to do what you do. Wages in the West are stagnating. The common theme amongst silly senior pensioners is that the youth is lazy. These guys are taking out/have taken out multiples of what they put into their pensions and benefits (pyramid scheme) and lived through the most prosperous golden era - it can be quite obnoxious at times for them to tell you about how lazy everyone is.

the computer will never do everything,

i work in the oil gass and power industry, and my money is going up every year,

yes i have to work all over the world, but i only work for 6 or 7 months of the year,

and as for saving, my wife and i live very well, but we still only spend about 30% of my wages, so things are looking very good in the jackson household,

I do not even have to google to know that a lot of oil and gas power industry workers have been displaced/made useless because of technology. Oil and gas workers seem to be the 2nd category of super annoying people after the wealthy pensioners. and when people start topics 'how do i get a job in the o/g industry so i can make the good money like all these braggarts on thai visa" the answer is usually some variation of "well only the really experienced guys make the good money and it is very hard to get your foot in the job these days. there isn't a whole lotta opportunity". this is the trend in every industry in the world, job growth is in low paying jobs in the west.

Job growth is in high skill knowledge-jobs for well-connected people. There's not a lot of jobs for time-serving slackers with no specific skills and no network of contacts.

I could get you a job tomorrow if you had twenty years of expertise in the relevant engineering discipline.

[Soutpeel]

I do not even have to google to know that a lot of oil and gas power industry workers have been displaced/made useless because of technology. Oil and gas workers seem to be the 2nd category of super annoying people after the wealthy pensioners. and when people start topics 'how do i get a job in the o/g industry so i can make the good money like all these braggarts on thai visa" the answer is usually some variation of "well only the really experienced guys make the good money and it is very hard to get your foot in the job these days. there isn't a whole lotta opportunity". this is the trend in every industry in the world, job growth is in low paying jobs in the west.

Get knocked back or run off a few jobs did we ?...

[GuestHouse]

I do not even have to google to know that a lot of oil and gas power industry workers have been displaced/made useless because of technology. Oil and gas workers seem to be the 2nd category of super annoying people after the wealthy pensioners. and when people start topics 'how do i get a job in the o/g industry so i can make the good money like all these braggarts on thai visa" the answer is usually some variation of "well only the really experienced guys make the good money and it is very hard to get your foot in the job these days. there isn't a whole lotta opportunity". this is the trend in every industry in the world, job growth is in low paying jobs in the west.

It all depends upon which end of the O&G industry you are talking about.

Right now the Engineering and Design services to the O&G industry are booming and recruiting - entry level jobs are available for young people with engineering/technology degrees and a lot of old guys are being dragged back out of retirement to fill the shortage of staff ( and I mean a lot)

The Engineering and Design services sector to the O&G industry have not for perhaps 15 or 20 years been recruiting in any meaningful numbers so there is a big gap between the youngsters coming in from college/university and the grey haired guys 50+

Loads of opportunities for people with the right qualifications - and way way less of an old boys network that access to the refineries/plants or rigs.

Stop whinging and get out there and get some of it for yourself.

[farang000999]

As I said, I am doing better than 99% of the people my age and have more money than 95% of the people in my country (USA) but I am still tired of this John Galt BS propaganda from the 1%.

Now this is the part where every moron whose real wages are not going down jumps into the thread and tells everyone else to pull themselves up by their boot straps.

Edited September 5, 2013 by farang000999

[Cheapcharly]

I could get you a job tomorrow if you want. I like to employ people. I think it s fair!

By example I need guys to clean my car, cut my grass, take care of everything.

In return you must pay me 60000 bahts for the privilege to work for me and get some real life experience.

You will get a certificate from cheapcharly saying you are a real asset for the next employer (I charge 2000 bahts per certificate) who will employ you.

3 positions remaining! Hurry up!

Edited September 5, 2013 by Cheapcharly

[TheSpade]

So roughly how old is Stickman?

I always assumed he was an older guy (as in 50+).

And also is his site really all he does for a living? Again I always assumed (not sure why) that it was more of a hobbie for him even though it probably does make a bit of money from advertising.

As he's been doing it for 12 years now and still has a loyal following no reason he can't continue to write every week and keep making money and / or branch out into other sites and online projects (which he probably has done already).

[IsaanUSA]

Now this is the part where every moron whose real wages are not going down jumps into the thread and tells everyone else to pull themselves up by their boot straps.

I haven't had an actual pay raise in years (1.5% raise is not a raise!). My boot straps are tight, there's not much to pull.

[farang000999]

So roughly how old is Stickman?

I always assumed he was an older guy (as in 50+).

And also is his site really all he does for a living? Again I always assumed (not sure why) that it was more of a hobbie for him even though it probably does make a bit of money from advertising.

As he's been doing it for 12 years now and still has a loyal following no reason he can't continue to write every week and keep making money and / or branch out into other sites and online projects (which he probably has done already).

I believe he used to be a teacher but some crazy maniac started stalking him and exposed what he did with his evenings to the staff. This should not come as a shocker considering topics like this where the OP and others without any evidence using him as an example of fiscal irresponsibility. With that said, I can understand why a school may have a problem with his website. I have never met him but I do read his column, it is free and it is one man's opinions, he does not force you to read his website.

Edited September 5, 2013 by farang000999

[rene123]

Don't gamble with what you can not afford to lose. Many people here have said the same thing - "Don't invest in Thailand what can't walk away from with only a few regrets".

Nothing is ever certain and all you can do is hedge your bets. It's also true that you have to gamble a bit or you won't gain much. A few of those that gamble a lot occasionally reap great rewards. That is true with love or money. If you have had good parenting and a reasonable education then that helps in planning for a viable future.

Those with very little don't have much to lose, and have a lot to gain by taking chances. There is something to be said for street smarts, but those usually come with a lot of personal hardship. Your feelings and any trust you once had in people gets burnt pretty badly. That is very true for all the women who work in bars. Their feelings have been scorched so badly that any trust they once had is long gone and it is difficult for them to have viable relationship later.

[JLCrab]

Just as a point of reference, when someone says that they have more money than 95% of those in the US, this is a general reference as of 2010 and one can reasonably extrapolate:

Table 1: Income, net worth, and financial worth in the U.S. by percentile, in 2010 dollars

Wealth or income class

Mean household income

Mean household net worth

Mean household financial (non-home) wealth

Top 1 percent

$1,318,200

$16,439,400

$15,171,600

Top 20 percent

$226,200

$2,061,600

$1,719,800

Per Sociology Department, UC Santa Cruz 2012

Edited September 5, 2013 by JLCrab

[farang000999]

you are reading that chart wrong. do some more googling. what it lists under 20% is the average of everyone 20% and higher.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/pf_article_103815.html

Or, as a Washington think tank recently pointed out: If you're a teacher married to a policeman, your combined household income puts you in the top 25 percent of all households in the nation.

!!!

Edited September 6, 2013 by farang000999

[guzzi850m2]

I am saving about 30% of my income, also off-shore oil business, but when looking at my funds I always says to myself: Is it enough?

Yes I keep my pension funds overseas, I am only a guest here despite having a kid of mixed race with my Thai wife.

One cannot predict the future, my paper money might be worth nothing when I retire, who knows.

One group of expats I can't understand is the teachers (no flaming intended) but many of them comes here relatively young, fell in love and starts a family and don't leave and live on a Thai salary?

I wonder how much you can save on a perhaps a 60K baht per month salary?

[pastafarian]

I am saving about 30% of my income, also off-shore oil business, but when looking at my funds I always says to myself: Is it enough?

Yes I keep my pension funds overseas, I am only a guest here despite having a kid of mixed race with my Thai wife.

One cannot predict the future, my paper money might be worth nothing when I retire, who knows.

One group of expats I can't understand is the teachers (no flaming intended) but many of them comes here relatively young, fell in love and starts a family and don't leave and live on a Thai salary?

I wonder how much you can save on a perhaps a 60K baht per month salary?

As you're on off-shore wages yet live here you probably aren't aware of the reality of living full-time in the UK, America etc on an average salary. I went back to the UK earlier this year for the first time in 7yrs and was reminded just how tough it is. For those in their 20-30s the cost of living is huge which means that even those on good salaries struggle, the majority of my close friends have interest-only mortgages, have large (10k-20k) credit card debts and need their overdraft every month. Most do have pensions but their contributions are very little and you can forget about savings! And lets not forget most, if not all, have hardly any job satisfaction or actually hate their job and also hate living in 'Great' Britain!

Now compare that to a 60k per month teacher, I actually earn a bit less than that per month. I live very well in a much nicer house than I'd be living in if in the UK and can save more than most of friends do in the UK. I enjoy my job immensely and get around 10 weeks holiday per year (compared to 4-5 weeks in the UK) and can actually afford a beach holiday here, usually in Thailand but Thailand is one of the top holiday destinations in the world! Tax here is very low compared to in the UK, laughable really, I came here for a year's sabbatical with my 'good' job left open for me but enjoyed life/work here too much to return and, overall, very glad I didn't. There are those that mock the young that move here but most I've met are much happier than they would be if back home. Of course it is an option to return to the UK rat race and do a job I hate for 30yrs living in a country I don't enjoy living in just so I might be better off financially when I'm 60 but I'll stick with Thailand for now where I'm happy

[TheSpade]

One group of expats I can't understand is the teachers (no flaming intended) but many of them comes here relatively young, fell in love and starts a family and don't leave and live on a Thai salary?

I wonder how much you can save on a perhaps a 60K baht per month salary?

If the alternative is a minimum wage job in the increasingly expensive UK for example they are better off here.

You can live super cheap in Thailand if you want and whilst your average teacher job doesn't pay that well it's not much less than what a min wage job pays back home where it's very difficult to live cheap.

[wamberal]

Young people need to buy a house, or other domestic property, first, before saving for their retirement.

I would guess that the only young Thai people who have enough discretionary income to save anything substantial do not actually need to, because they come from a wealthy family.

Genuine expatriates - that is, people who are working temporarily in Thailand on an expatriate package, would surely be contributing to some sort of pension or other retirement scheme.

[Soutpeel]

Genuine expatriates - that is, people who are working temporarily in Thailand on an expatriate package, would surely be contributing to some sort of pension or other retirement scheme.

Oh dear... ....you had better be prepared for a barrage of flack from a certain demographic of TV members, suggesting only those working here are geniune expats...

[StreetCowboy]

Genuine expatriates - that is, people who are working temporarily in Thailand on an expatriate package, would surely be contributing to some sort of pension or other retirement scheme.

Oh dear... ....you had better be prepared for a barrage of flack from a certain demographic of TV members, suggesting only those working here are geniune expats...

Some expatriates are not corporate wage slaves, and are free to squander their wealth as they see fit, on pensions, school fees or loose women, just like any freebooting buccaneer.

[Nana Cowboy]

I save all I can and as a cheap charlie, I m not too bad.

I live well below my mean.

I met other guys Mid age who do the same. Just rent cheap room, eat Street food and still work in Thailand or Asia. One guy can live well with less 13000 bahts /per month.

We don't trust our western countries, government are already broke and now print their own money to make you Belive it s ok. Alleluia !

They simply wait for a Santa Klaus who will create millions of jobs all over western countries. This story is ongoing since 2008 and now we are just in a non ending stagnation period with over 100 millions chap in usa who just gave up looking. God bless usa! They need it...

Yes some expats are saving. It's not very hard, instead to buy a house, keep your $, invest in funds/obligation/stocks... , and live with interest. You can even save.

You can work aside or get free money by playing lottery.

yes you live my dream life. I long to ditto your life for my own but I'm stuck with this beautiful wife and home. I think if we tried we could spend less than you though as all our stuff is paid for and we dont have to live in a sweat box. Its a mansion baby on 3 acres. Oh boy lots of fun. but my prob is I love AC and spend 2500 on electric but I feel sooooo coooool baby. in my next life I do your trip though. sounds wonderful

[Cheapcharly]

saving in Europe? ... This is finished since long time.

Do you really think a boss will pay you money for your saving when he can just give you a minimum salary ? Mr boss don't give a #@$#@ about you and your retirement. He must care about his business and tax that our wonderful European system will suck.

Take Germany by example, 25%of workers are poor. And I talk about people working. Engineers from Spain make less than 600 euro in Germany.

Salaries of 60000euro to sustain a family of 4 are long gone.

Watch how robots will replace you soon.

You are better in Thailand watching the freak show and living a cheap life than being in this damn Europe of losers.

[giggles]

as we hear Stickman works a private dick investigating BGs of worried angst ridden boyfriends ,who live around the world and send them money every month.

the outcome is usually the same ,they are doing the dirty and screwing around but the worried boyfriend refuses to believe the horrible truth and carries on sending them money .

so he can always work as a gumshoe into his old age .

[guzzi850m2]

As you're on off-shore wages yet live here you probably aren't aware of the reality of living full-time in the UK, America etc on an average salary. I went back to the UK earlier this year for the first time in 7yrs and was reminded just how tough it is. For those in their 20-30s the cost of living is huge which means that even those on good salaries struggle, the majority of my close friends have interest-only mortgages, have large (10k-20k) credit card debts and need their overdraft every month. Most do have pensions but their contributions are very little and you can forget about savings! And lets not forget most, if not all, have hardly any job satisfaction or actually hate their job and also hate living in 'Great' Britain!

Now compare that to a 60k per month teacher, I actually earn a bit less than that per month. I live very well in a much nicer house than I'd be living in if in the UK and can save more than most of friends do in the UK. I enjoy my job immensely and get around 10 weeks holiday per year (compared to 4-5 weeks in the UK) and can actually afford a beach holiday here, usually in Thailand but Thailand is one of the top holiday destinations in the world! Tax here is very low compared to in the UK, laughable really, I came here for a year's sabbatical with my 'good' job left open for me but enjoyed life/work here too much to return and, overall, very glad I didn't. There are those that mock the young that move here but most I've met are much happier than they would be if back home. Of course it is an option to return to the UK rat race and do a job I hate for 30yrs living in a country I don't enjoy living in just so I might be better off financially when I'm 60 but I'll stick with Thailand for now where I'm happy

No, I guess you are right about the reality of living in EU.

When I decided to move my address from Denmark (saving big taxes) to Thailand, I was lucky and got an off-shore job for a British company based in Singapore and haven't really looked back since (over 10 years ago).

I work 6 month per year now and when I turn 60, I can go down to work 4 month per year if I want.

Happiness is the best you can wish for in our short lives and if you got that you are a lucky man, never mind the future (Thai mentality, ha-ha).

I fell pretty happy here, got a loving/caring wife and a lovely son but since I am about 15 years senior to my wife I am likely to leave this world before she does so I am trying to make sure she is good taking care of when it happens.

Teachers are also not top paid in Denmark and they will probably struggle to own a house there if they lived alone, which is kind of sad.

Money is not everything but they are nice to have, I buy pretty much everything I fancy but in the end of the day, my family is what matters to me, the Harley Davidson bike I had before is just a distant 2'nd so it was sold 1 year after my son was born.

It's only a machine, I can always buy one later but my wife and son can't be replaced.

I don't mean to sound arrogant but taking good care of your family is expensive here: health insurance cost about 100K baht per year for my family and then comes my sons private school (not Int. but very good) about 80K baht per year for pre Kindergarten

and so on, it all adds up. Basically what I save in taxes goes to insurance - pension funds - schooling and so on. My last electrical bill was 5000 baht (per month) but when I am overseas working, it's about 1/2 of that, can't sleep in a hot room, don't fell comfortable.

Edited September 6, 2013 by guzzi850m2

[rayongchelsea]

As you're on off-shore wages yet live here you probably aren't aware of the reality of living full-time in the UK, America etc on an average salary. I went back to the UK earlier this year for the first time in 7yrs and was reminded just how tough it is. For those in their 20-30s the cost of living is huge which means that even those on good salaries struggle, the majority of my close friends have interest-only mortgages, have large (10k-20k) credit card debts and need their overdraft every month. Most do have pensions but their contributions are very little and you can forget about savings! And lets not forget most, if not all, have hardly any job satisfaction or actually hate their job and also hate living in 'Great' Britain!

Now compare that to a 60k per month teacher, I actually earn a bit less than that per month. I live very well in a much nicer house than I'd be living in if in the UK and can save more than most of friends do in the UK. I enjoy my job immensely and get around 10 weeks holiday per year (compared to 4-5 weeks in the UK) and can actually afford a beach holiday here, usually in Thailand but Thailand is one of the top holiday destinations in the world! Tax here is very low compared to in the UK, laughable really, I came here for a year's sabbatical with my 'good' job left open for me but enjoyed life/work here too much to return and, overall, very glad I didn't. There are those that mock the young that move here but most I've met are much happier than they would be if back home. Of course it is an option to return to the UK rat race and do a job I hate for 30yrs living in a country I don't enjoy living in just so I might be better off financially when I'm 60 but I'll stick with Thailand for now where I'm happy

No, I guess you are right about the reality of living in EU.

When I decided to move my address from Denmark (saving big taxes) to Thailand, I was lucky and got an off-shore job for a British company based in Singapore and haven't really looked back since (over 10 years ago).

I work 6 month per year now and when I turn 60, I can go down to work 4 month per year if I want.

Happiness is the best you can wish for in our short lives and if you got that you are a lucky man, never mind the future (Thai mentality, ha-ha).

I fell pretty happy here, got a loving/caring wife and a lovely son but since I am about 15 years senior to my wife I am likely to leave this world before she does so I am trying to make sure she is good taking care of when it happens.

Teachers are also not top paid in Denmark and they will probably struggle to own a house there if they lived alone, which is kind of sad.

Money is not everything but they are nice to have, I buy pretty much everything I fancy but in the end of the day, my family is what matters to me, the Harley Davidson bike I had before is just a distant 2'nd so it was sold 1 year after my son was born.

It's only a machine, I can always buy one later but my wife and son can't be replaced.

I don't mean to sound arrogant but taking good care of your family is expensive here: health insurance cost about 100K baht per year for my family and then comes my sons private school (not Int. but very good) about 80K baht per year for pre Kindergarten

and so on, it all adds up. Basically what I save in taxes goes to insurance - pension funds - schooling and so on. My last electrical bill was 5000 baht (per month) but when I am overseas working, it's about 1/2 of that, can't sleep in a hot room, don't fell comfortable.

Agreed taking care of a family, good education,( Thai education for the majority is terrible) living in a good environment, good hospitals, savings etc.. Costs a great deal of money here..almost as much as Europe.

Been there done that with the teacher thing when I was very young here..can persuade yourself as much as you like but being a teacher here on a modest salary won't cut it when you are older. I am not mocking the young...I came here at 21 in the very late seventies..been here almost every since ( not by design )made more money here than would have at home, but don't rate Thailand as a place for the oldies to come to..

It's a rat race here and ever more so, it's becoming increasingly expensive, life is stressful wherever you are if you haven't got the money...most of my friends from the uk..with all its faults wouldn't live here in a million years with their families. ( except for the weather)..

Good luck, but don't stay here till your too old..met many people over the years who have..