PorKor14 for guardian?

[stevenl]

We (or officially my wife) have via the court obtained guardianship over the son of my wife's daughter.

His passport's validity has almost ended, so when we need a new passport, would it be possible to obtain a PorKor 14 and take that to the passport office? I'm asking since I presume that would be easier than taking the court papers to the passport office (and subsequently Thai and foreign immigration).

[7by7]

A PK 14 is not a custody document; it is a sworn statement made at an ampur concerning a child's life; who has been their principle carer, who provides the financial support etc.

An ampur issued custody document is a PK 6. But to get one needs the agreement of both parents.

As your wife went to court to get custody, this presumably means that the father would not agree to sign the papers at the ampur.

(If anything like my step daughter's father, he didn't turn up at court, either!)

So to prove sole legal custody for the child's passport and any visa application your wife will need the court papers; as my wife did.

A PK 14 can still be useful, though, as evidence of sole responsibility. By itself it wont be enough, but it is still a very useful document to have.

[Mario2008]

According to MFA website, who issues Thai pasport, the PK14 form is all that is needed to show sole parental powers.

http://www.mfa.go.th/main/en/services/1415/21479-Requirements-for-the-Ordinary-e-Passports-Applicat.html

How it works in case of getting sole parental powers is that the court decision must be taken to the amphur to be registered, then the register at the amphur shows that the mother has sole parental rights.

[7by7]

Are you sure a PK14 is always necessary, Mario?

All my wife had was the sole custody order issued by the court and her divorce certificate.

From the MFA site you linked to

If the applicant’s parents were divorced or did not live together, a parent who is present to sign the parental consent form will need to bring the memorandum of divorce proving sole custody of the appearing parent.

A PK14 is only mentioned where the parents were never married.

[stevenl]

A PK 14 is not a custody document; it is a sworn statement made at an ampur concerning a child's life; who has been their principle carer, who provides the financial support etc.

An ampur issued custody document is a PK 6. But to get one needs the agreement of both parents.

As your wife went to court to get custody, this presumably means that the father would not agree to sign the papers at the ampur.

(If anything like my step daughter's father, he didn't turn up at court, either!)

So to prove sole legal custody for the child's passport and any visa application your wife will need the court papers; as my wife did.

A PK 14 can still be useful, though, as evidence of sole responsibility. By itself it wont be enough, but it is still a very useful document to have.

Thanks. Is there a difference between guardianship and custody? Both the natural mother and father are IMO not important anymore, since my wife, the child's natural grandmother, has guardianship.

So would PK 14 and/or PK 6 be useful and possible?

[Mario2008]

Are you sure a PK14 is always necessary, Mario?

All my wife had was the sole custody order issued by the court and her divorce certificate.

From the MFA site you linked to

If the applicant’s parents were divorced or did not live together, a parent who is present to sign the parental consent form will need to bring the memorandum of divorce proving sole custody of the appearing parent.

A PK14 is only mentioned where the parents were never married.

You're right. In case of a divorce the divorce memorandum can be shown, proving sole parental rights.

(I do question if that is according to the Thai civil code, that wants the sole parental right be recorded at the amphur in order to take effect).

[Mario2008]

A guardian is a caretaker of the child, a legal guardian is appointed as such and is not only a caretaker but also has parental rights as long as the child is a minor. The guardian might not have legal powers but can only be acting on behalf of others who have parental rights.

Custody can mean taking care of something but here probably mean having parental rights. That means the right to make decisions about the child. The difference with a legal guardian is that he also has family ties, which goes to such things as inheritance, responsibilities to take care of your older parents etc.

[7by7]

Thanks. Is there a difference between guardianship and custody? Both the natural mother and father are IMO not important anymore, since my wife, the child's natural grandmother, has guardianship.

So would PK 14 and/or PK 6 be useful and possible?

A PK 14 would be both possible and useful.

Not sure about a PK 6. This is a custody document, and you say you already have something similar from the court.

You mention in the OP about foreign immigration. Which country?

The rules on inter country adoption can be complicated, and unless you and your wife have formally adopted the child this would be treated as a de facto adoption.

If it is your intention to take the child out of Thailand to live with you and your wife, you should read up on the rules of the country concerned.

For the UK, see from SET7.18 How do adopted children qualify for settlement? onwards. Not all of it will be relevant, depending on whether you have formally adopted the child or not.

Remember that the above is for the UK only; other countries will have different rules and procedures.

Edited September 4, 2013 by 7by7

[stevenl]

Thanks very much guys, will go to the amphur for a PK 14.

No intention at all of leaving Thailand and living elsewhere, the remark in the OP referred to vacation, in this case NL, which we have done earlier in possession of parental consent form (which was only asked for upon check in in Amsterdam for the return flight ) Also no intention of adoptation.

I'll also check the court document (I did have this translated) for exact wording and may decide to check for PK 6 as well.

[Farmdude]

First time posting

Urgent help needed . My Thai wife would like to apply for a passort for her grandduaghter. The baby's mother is not willing to travel to our city and sign the application. We have been caring for the baby since birth and natural father not on birth certificate.Birth mother is in no way involved with the caring of the baby, e.g no financial or any personal support. (Money support is not an issue) As I'm currently working outside Thailand they would like to visit me once a month.

1 How do we get guardianship over the baby ?

2 We will need that to obtian an passport for baby.

3. How long will the counrt process take and the cost?

Any advice will be great as this is turning out to be a mine feild

Thanks all

[Farmdude]

StevenL What where the steps that was need to get the court order on guardianship of child ? and how long did the process take?

Any info will be great. Thanks

[stament]

StevenL What where the steps that was need to get the court order on guardianship of child ? and how long did the process take?

Any info will be great. Thanks

I posted something on this about three years ago on this forum or the other UK one. Basically we got it all sorted. I don't have the court papers with me now as I'm working away from home but if you wait a couple of weeks I will be back and will let you know the details.

As a quick summary we went to court and got some court papers that basically said that my wife has sole custody of her son and had permission to take him out of the country. Her ex-husband agreed to this so it was all very amicable. Just to warn you it did take quite a while from the court application and we all had to go to court - all interested parties.

Good luck

[stevenl]

StevenL What where the steps that was need to get the court order on guardianship of child ? and how long did the process take?

Any info will be great. Thanks

We found a lawyer, had the father sign a statement he was not involved with the child, went to court where the mother declared she could not take care of the child herself. The judhe gave guardianship to my wife, so she can independently take the child out of the country, decide on schools, etc., with the mother having no say in those decisions.

Took all in all about 4 months and cost 30,000 or 40,000 Baht.

Judging from your OP it will be different for you, since we had a cooperating mother and father (father on birth certificate but otherwise not involved, not married to the birth mother). But I would guess that with a good lawyer the same result will be possible since the mother does not take care of the child.

[stament]

StevenL What where the steps that was need to get the court order on guardianship of child ? and how long did the process take?

Any info will be great. Thanks

We found a lawyer, had the father sign a statement he was not involved with the child, went to court where the mother declared she could not take care of the child herself. The judhe gave guardianship to my wife, so she can independently take the child out of the country, decide on schools, etc., with the mother having no say in those decisions.

Took all in all about 4 months and cost 30,000 or 40,000 Baht.

Judging from your OP it will be different for you, since we had a cooperating mother and father (father on birth certificate but otherwise not involved, not married to the birth mother). But I would guess that with a good lawyer the same result will be possible since the mother does not take care of the child.

We had a similar experience. The Dad (ex-husband) signed the paper giving my wife (mother) full custody or whatever they call it. We went to Court and then later got the papers. From memory it was about 10k about 4 years ago. It did take a while though as previously mentioned and 4 months sounds around that time but could have been longer. My advice is get a trustworthy lawyer as the first one we had didn't have a scoobie doo and took ages, which delayed things about 3 months. We hadn't paid him but that wasn't the issue, time was.