Thailand education: Low ranking for quality despite high spending

[nong38]

Edukashun, edukashun, edukashun, ay up Tony's in town he can sort this out, or can he? Its part of the path through life in Thailand, if someone tries to change it goodness knows what will happen. If it aint broken wont need to fix it, just look at the pass rates, amazing.

Thailand knows .

Edited September 5, 2013 by nong38

[ABCer]

High spending (input).

Low quality results (output).

Analysis: 1) System faulty, or

2) Spending 'leaks' out, or

3) Results are estimated by the 'product' of the same very system, or

4) All of the above.

Please tickle the right answer.

Sorry for double posting. For some reason it takes up to 10 min for my posts to appear.

Maybe I am impatient. Maybe I am paranoid. Maybe my posts go through some rigorous checking. None of these possibilities are mutually exclusive.

Edited September 5, 2013 by ABCer

[Calimotty]

A "teacher" married to a "policeman" lives across the street from us. She "teaches" pre-schoolers." She proudly wears her govt. uniform and makes sure her new car is always clean. The govt. made the loan for the car and requires minimal payback. But the LOOK she and other car driving teachers present is remarkable. Unfortunately they do not TEACH adequately. SHAME for their impact on the youth of Thailand and the country's forward movement into a fully modern democratic society. I'm glad I am NOT a teacher in LOS.

According to UNESCO (2012), Thailand’s literacy rate is actually quite high. Approximately 95 percent of all Thais over the age of 15 are classified as literate. That’s why it’s unusual to see a Thai, male or female, that cannot read or write the Thai language.

[gosompoi]

High spending (input).

Low quality results (output).

Analysis: 1) System faulty, or

2) Spending 'leaks' out, or

3) Results are estimated by the 'product' of the same very system, or

4) All of the above.

Please tickle the right answer.

Thai answer "free none of the above"

[marell]

Gee, wonder where all the money went. Think maybe it's just been misplaced or something?

[johnnie20110]

Obec secretary-general Chinnapat Bhumirat said yesterday that in relation to its gross domestic product, Thailand spent a large amount on education, especially on teachers' salaries.

Thailand spends a lot of money on education, but its pure BS to attribute that to the $250 a month salary many teachers are paid.

The money is squandered through corruption on bogus schemes and corrupt practices by those in power. Most of the money is long gone before it ever reaches the school.

Deputy Education Minister Sermsak Pongpanit said his ministry would not ignore the ranking.

Sure Sermsak will ignore it.

As one of those in power, he directly benefits from the corruption within the ministry with the biggest budget.

All the Thai teachers I know earn at least 20k bht per month.

Get to know Thai teachers in public elementary schools.

Unless they have a Masters degree, many make less than half that.

[johnnie20110]

I have just returned from a visit to three remote village schools in Lampang. The school IT specialists tell me that the "One Child On Tablet" computer scheme is a failure since the quality of the quality and capabilities of the tablets are poor. They complain that the politicians dictate the specifications rather than specialists. The introduction of the tablets in any case is because many of the teachers do not have the knowledge to teach the children and rely on TV and tablets to allow the children to teach themselves while they take it easy or even moonlight working on outside jobs.

A good example of the sort of billions wasted on various unproductive schemes. That these same wasteful bureaucrats lay the blame on teacher salaries is nauseating.

[johnnie20110]

Thailand spends a lot of money on education, but its pure BS to attribute that to the $250 a month salary many teachers are paid.

The money is squandered through corruption on bogus schemes and corrupt practices by those in power. Most of the money is long gone before it ever reaches the school.

Deputy Education Minister Sermsak Pongpanit said his ministry would not ignore the ranking.

Sure Sermsak will ignore it.

As one of those in power, he directly benefits from the corruption within the ministry with the biggest budget.

All the Thai teachers I know earn at least 20k bht per month.

Sent from my GT-I9003 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

All the new teachers at my school and my old school start at 8,500 a month for the first two years.

^ Someone with real world experience.

[kaorop]

Thai kids are not interested in learning

Not in annuban and early pratom, they are for the most part very eager to learn.

But corruption rules at every level and to much time is spent on 'impressing' but

that's Thailand all over.

[edwinchester]

Obec secretary-general Chinnapat Bhumirat said yesterday that in relation to its gross domestic product, Thailand spent a large amount on education, especially on teachers' salaries.

 

Thailand spends a lot of money on education, but its pure BS to attribute that to the $250 a month salary many teachers are paid.

The money is squandered through corruption on bogus schemes and corrupt practices by those in power. Most of the money is long gone before it ever reaches the school.

 

 

Deputy Education Minister Sermsak Pongpanit said his ministry would not ignore the ranking.

 

 

Sure Sermsak will ignore it.

As one of those in power, he directly benefits from the corruption within the ministry with the biggest budget.

All the Thai teachers I know earn at least 20k bht per month.

Get to know Thai teachers in public elementary schools.

Unless they have a Masters degree, many make less than half that.

All the Thai teachers I know do work in Govt schools. Admittedly all but one have masters degrees but even the one with a basic degree earns more than 20k.

Maybe the reason is they all have a minimum of 15 years service.

Sent from my GT-I9003 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[johnnie20110]

According to UNESCO (2012), Thailands literacy rate is actually quite high. Approximately 95 percent of all Thais over the age of 15 are classified as literate. Thats why its unusual to see a Thai, male or female, that cannot read or write the Thai language.

There are literally millions and millions of Thai who cannot read or write Thai.

Thailand 92.6% literacy rate

7.4% illiteracy rate x 69.52 million population = A whole bunch

[Emdog]

Every farang who has experienced Thai teaching methods first hand realizes that, no matter how much money they spend, as long as students are lectured to and not taught how to think and reason for themselves, the education will not happen. Unfortunately, this suits the politicians just fine as a thinking population might question their wisdom in governance.

"The mediocre teacher tells. The good teacher explains. The superior teacher demonstrates. The great teacher inspires." William Arthur Ward. Thailand is in great need of teachers who inspire their students to be inquisitive and to study and become lifelong learners.

That's just silly. The basics are rote memory. Thai kids can't read Thai and can't write Thai and don't have basic arithmetic skills. You are talking college. I'm talking grade school. They don't need any more brain stress. Start with the basics. Teach the Thai language and basic arithmetic skills and then send them out to make a living.

I disagree, it is not silly, it is essential. You want rote memory, get a computer. People now more than ever need to be able to think critically, problem solve, ask questions, find information. They need proper brain stress. Learning is the second most fun thing we can do, but ed practices have turned it so often into drudgery. Students of all ages can be taught these skills when they are taught appropriately. The culture of the school, where those who question are seen as troublemakers, needs to change. It would cost nothing in terms of budget, but would require teachers to know the subject and how to teach. And they are not ready to do that step.

[Fookhaht]

Don't be fooled by the photo, never in your wildest dreams can a public school classroom look so well disciplined and the pupils so neat and well dressed.

OMG! That photo could NOT have been taken at a government school in Thailand! I've been to dozens and dozens of primary schools in Thailand as a guest teacher or seminar director for primary school teachers. The physical conditions are beyond third-world.

Yes, most of the money usually never gets to the school. Most of the pitiful-looking schools I've been to have surrounding rice fields, farmed by the students during class hours, in order to supplement the paltry funds available from the government. The conditions are absolutely appalling.

[johnnie20110]

All the Thai teachers I know earn at least 20k bht per month.

Get to know Thai teachers in public elementary schools.

Unless they have a Masters degree, many make less than half that.

All the Thai teachers I know do work in Govt schools. Admittedly all but one have masters degrees but even the one with a basic degree earns more than 20k.

Maybe the reason is they all have a minimum of 15 years service.

Fair enough.

Get to know the many more commonly-encountered typical Thai teachers in public schools rather than the relative few who have 15 years experience and a Masters degree.

Edited September 5, 2013 by johnnie20110

[lostmebike]

"So when the quality of education in Thailand is ranked even lower than a country that spends less in terms of its GDP, it is possible that the education is actually poor,"

You don't say

High costs? I would suggest some of these costs are somewhat of a phantom and not really channelled into education at all, more likely into the back pockets of people in power that others (have to) respect and admire.

Word to government; sort out corruption and watch the country flourish.

Edited September 5, 2013 by lostmebike

[johnnie20110]

Yes, most of the money usually never gets to the school. Most of the pitiful-looking schools I've been to have surrounding rice fields, farmed by the students during class hours, in order to supplement the paltry funds available from the government. The conditions are absolutely appalling.

And yet, then the same central government bureaucrats and politicians will lay the blame on these woefully under-funded schools and teachers as the cause of the students' failure.

[atyclb]

I am sure the teachers are well looked after in terms of salary & benefits as they are a large voting block after all. Not to mention the extra money teachers make by providing extra tuition which is required due to the inadequate teaching methods so it would be a conflict of interest for them to do a good job. Then there is the oft repeated opinion that the rich & powerful do not want a well educated populace capable of rational & independent thinking but this line of thought, if true, is completely erroneous as a well educated workforce can generate much more income for the country.

Good point and analysis and what you say is true when using logic and reason but you neglected to factor in Thai society lack of reason / critical thinking. While it is true better educated workers could generate more national income, society simply does not see it that way.

[lostmebike]

Yes, most of the money usually never gets to the school. Most of the pitiful-looking schools I've been to have surrounding rice fields, farmed by the students during class hours, in order to supplement the paltry funds available from the government. The conditions are absolutely appalling.

And yet, then the same central government bureaucrats and politicians will lay the blame on these woefully under-funded schools and teachers as the cause of the students' failure.

And even the senior teachers at these 'pitiful-looking' schools will drive around in brand new SUV's, big Toyotas or Hondas. Many have 2, 3, 4 homes shops here and there as well as land and rubber plantations.

I really think that if the administrators could be controlled and more of the budget found it's way to be properly used, there would be improvements. Why spend 100k on teacher parties when the kids could really benefit with some funding for learning materials?

I see this extravagant spending all the time. Parties, dinners, trips away and making the school look good for visitors are THE most important things to the administrators here. P*ss-poor management leads to p*ss-poor results!

[The Usual Suspect]

"Yet Thailand is unable to solve its educational problems," he lamented. ????

In a recent news article, the head of Thailand's Education Ministry said he couldn't understand why the test scores on basic subjects were so low, given the fact that the subjects were all fully included in the national curriculum. He just couldn't fathom why the students weren't getting it.

From my perspective, one of the reasons Thailand is unable to solve it's educational problems because there are no "problems", at least as far as reporting goes. The school where my wife teaches, (which is fairly average for a Thai school) makes sure that all reports to the district director are top heavy with high test scores (which are often thoroughly coached or outright fabricated) and a litany of program success stories and statistics. Always a big fat happy face on everything. After all, it's all about face. As long as the students (who can't fail) go home with a happy face, the teachers and their director go home with a happy face, then the district director can show his happy face to his superiors, and upward it goes to the national level. Unless and until the Thai educational system drops all of this face saving crap and becomes totally honest about the true condition of the nation's schools (like that's going to happen) , I seriously doubt there will be any progress made.

[nong38]

The facade looks good, everything looks good. Dont come any closer, look under the cupboard or carpet, look at my possessions dont ask how I afford them, just look at the facade, there is no depth.

How long have people put up with this?

They know no different way of doing things and are fed propaganda that everything is wonderful, the world should learn from Thailand not the other way round, Thailand has nothing to learn, because we have comparisons which we can make we see things through different eyes, eyes that a Thai would never believe or see. Even when they say yes they mean no.

Edited September 5, 2013 by nong38

[MaxYakov]

Every farang who has experienced Thai teaching methods first hand realizes that, no matter how much money they spend, as long as students are lectured to and not taught how to think and reason for themselves, the education will not happen. Unfortunately, this suits the politicians just fine as a thinking population might question their wisdom in governance.

"The mediocre teacher tells. The good teacher explains. The superior teacher demonstrates. The great teacher inspires." William Arthur Ward. Thailand is in great need of teachers who inspire their students to be inquisitive and to study and become lifelong learners.

"You give me to think too much." -- One of My Thai Ex-GFs.

Edited September 5, 2013 by MaxYakov

[Fookhaht]

"From my perspective, one of the reasons Thailand is unable to solve it's educational problems because there are no "problems", at least as far as reporting goes. The school where my wife teaches, (which is fairly average for a Thai school) makes sure that all reports to the district director are top heavy with high test scores (which are often thoroughly coached or outright fabricated) and a litany of program success stories and statistics. Always a big fat happy face on everything."

One of the foreign professors at my university did a funded research project on the problems of students' inability to speak English (in the English major). Much of the hard data pointed to problems with ineffective pedagogy and lack of decent class materials. Before the report was published, the Thai department head got wind of the research results. The professor's funds were frozen, he was instructed to cease his research activity, and the report never saw the light of day. Since then, all his requests for funding of subsequent research projects have been denied.

The report was just too much loss of face to bear; and that, in Thai education, is the most important thing.

Edited September 5, 2013 by Fookhaht

[MaxYakov]

Quote:

"Obec secretary-general Chinnapat Bhumirat said yesterday that in relation to its gross domestic product, Thailand spent a large amount on education, especially on teachers' salaries."

Thailand spends a lot of money on education, but its pure BS to attribute that to the $250 a month salary many teachers are paid.

The money is squandered through corruption on bogus schemes and corrupt practices by those in power. Most of the money is long gone before it ever reaches the school.

Quote:

"Deputy Education Minister Sermsak Pongpanit said his ministry would not ignore the ranking."

Sure Sermsak will ignore it.

As one of those in power, he directly benefits from the corruption within the ministry with the biggest budget.

All the Thai teachers I know earn at least 20k bht per month.

Get to know Thai teachers in public elementary schools.

Unless they have a Masters degree, many make less than half that.

All the Thai teachers I know do work in Govt schools. Admittedly all but one have masters degrees but even the one with a basic degree earns more than 20k.

Maybe the reason is they all have a minimum of 15 years service.

Sent from my GT-I9003 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Fixed reply/quote nesting.

[culicine]

Every farang who has experienced Thai teaching methods first hand realizes that, no matter how much money they spend, as long as students are lectured to and not taught how to think and reason for themselves, the education will not happen. Unfortunately, this suits the politicians just fine as a thinking population might question their wisdom in governance.

"The mediocre teacher tells. The good teacher explains. The superior teacher demonstrates. The great teacher inspires." William Arthur Ward. Thailand is in great need of teachers who inspire their students to be inquisitive and to study and become lifelong learners.

That's just silly. The basics are rote memory. Thai kids can't read Thai and can't write Thai and don't have basic arithmetic skills. You are talking college. I'm talking grade school. They don't need any more brain stress. Start with the basics. Teach the Thai language and basic arithmetic skills and then send them out to make a living.

Sure rote learning forms the basis of much of the kids fundamental skills - but in Thai schools there is waay to much of it. I've seen teacher just writing masses of Thai on the board, kids copying it, and asked to regurgitate it on a test. I'm not talking just about grade school, but up to grade 12 as well. Kids who do well in Thai/social are those who can remember lots of facts and can reproduce them on a test. Of course kids also need to know multiplication tables too, but their understanding can be extended much beyond this. There is too much focus on arithmetic in schools (calculators are banned in Thai schools), and little focus on conceptual understanding. I gave some of my so called top m6 students an SAT maths question - non could solve this in 5 minutes, but it just involved grade 9 math concepts. Yet these are the kids who love to go to tutorial schools, saying out school work is too 'easy'. They just don't have an understanding of basic concepts.

[gosompoi]

The facade looks good, everything looks good. Dont come any closer, look under the cupboard or carpet, look at my possessions dont ask how I afford them, just look at the facade, there is no depth.

How long have people put up with this?

They know no different way of doing things and are fed propaganda that everything is wonderful, the world should learn from Thailand not the other way round, Thailand has nothing to learn, because we have comparisons which we can make we see things through different eyes, eyes that a Thai would never believe or see. Even when they say yes they mean no.

Nothing is going to change, there is a reason they are taught Thai culture is something to proud of..... because that is all they have! Have you ever tried to google-ing 'Thai Technology'? very sad results. There is a reason history is not taught in schools, it is to keep them ignorant, of the past and their future. How long did 3G take? How many times have the trains derailed this month/year? Protesters block airports/highways? What will happen when they stop the rice price guarantee for 30 million farmers, what will happen? I predict they burn down all the government schools, hospitals and buildings in protest.

[Yooyung]

"Yet Thailand is unable to solve its educational problems," he lamented. ????

In a recent news article, the head of Thailand's Education Ministry said he couldn't understand why the test scores on basic subjects were so low, given the fact that the subjects were all fully included in the national curriculum. He just couldn't fathom why the students weren't getting it.

From my perspective, one of the reasons Thailand is unable to solve it's educational problems because there are no "problems", at least as far as reporting goes. The school where my wife teaches, (which is fairly average for a Thai school) makes sure that all reports to the district director are top heavy with high test scores (which are often thoroughly coached or outright fabricated) and a litany of program success stories and statistics. Always a big fat happy face on everything. After all, it's all about face. As long as the students (who can't fail) go home with a happy face, the teachers and their director go home with a happy face, then the district director can show his happy face to his superiors, and upward it goes to the national level. Unless and until the Thai educational system drops all of this face saving crap and becomes totally honest about the true condition of the nation's schools (like that's going to happen) , I seriously doubt there will be any progress made.

Sad, but true. The fiddling of marks to make sure everyone passes is all too common. There is no accountability, students that do b**ger all still pass and progress on to the next year along with kids that actually care, and are trying. Its all a bit soul destroying but I have learnt to accept it. The job I have at the moment pays reasonably well, the conditions are pretty good and the class sizes are...too, big at times but I have some classes of 25. I know that a lot of the time I am shovelling cow manure up hill but there are times when I can make a difference. I just shrug my shoulders, relax, dont stress about it, play a game...I am a performer a lot of the time. Thats ok becuase it isnt very stressful and I like my life outside of teaching in this country, I basically have a job where I can put in effort if I want, or I can choose just to take it easy, and then go home and have beer and some good food under a palm tree. Thats the reality of the situation after you have been teaching here for a few years. I do make a difference in some young peoples lives but Thailand just doesnt take learning English seriously enough for me to get all uptight about it anymore. I dont think this is going to change. Sure I may be able to find a job, a school that is very organised and where more of the kids take learning English more seriously but I am not holding my breath. The mindset just isnt there, no matter how much I may wish it to be. No, I will plod along, doing what I can..waiting for ANY...I mean ANY of these grand ideas that the government come up with to actually eventuate. Big loss of face with the openning of the AEC could either jolt them into action or (unfortunately more likely) make them even more insular and less open to new ideas. The game may just end up being looking for people to blame...falang teachers being a prime target.

To get the education system in Thailand up to scratch is such a HUGE task with so many toes that are going to be stepped on that I am extremely pessimistic about it all. I think that bright kids will always shine and I hope to help them do that, but the reality is that for me teaching here is, for the most part a cushy gig where I am paid to insert 'fun' into English, even if that means that its all fluff and candy floss. Oh well, I guess I could teach grammar to Japanese businessmen!

[giggles]

a recent study shows that poverty affects judgment and learning

Being poor not only depletes your bank account, but it also diminishes how you think, reason and remember, says an intriguing new study by a UBC professor.

People living in poverty are often blamed for not improving their lives, but the new research suggests that the reality of being poor uses so much mental energy there is little brain power leftover to make good, life-changing decisions

[sabai-dee-man]

All the Thai teachers I know earn at least 20k bht per month.

All the new teachers at my school and my old school start at 8,500 a month for the first two years.

^ Someone with real world experience.

As an NQT, I can assure you my girlfriend would be over the moon with ฿20,000 p/m. As it is, she struggles to make even half that with overtime and additional private teaching on Sundays. gosompoi is much nearer the mark.

[Maybole]

It's the teachers!!!

Gawd you would think it was rocket science

The teachers don't get paid SH**. The school supplies are not worth SH**. The classrooms are not worth SH**. Sports days don't cost SH**. The teachers give the kids milk and shampoo for lice and free haircuts. Everybody has holes in their socks and smells bad because there is no AC.

Go teach for a while. The teachers are not that bad. The cash comes out before it gets to the school budget. Thai teachers are OK; it's the dummies above the teaching level.

Although there is a positive. The kids are not crazy and all on prescription drugs like in the West. I don't think many Thai kids bring guns to school and shoot people.

Class size is too big. At least they don't have the single one biggest impediment to education in the West, "Teachers Unions."

In addition there is the extortion. mmmmmmmmmmy neice has to pay 20% of her salary to the headmistress for "Projects" which never are completed.

[historyprof]

Reading writing and arithmetic. Teach them by rote or by mental telepathy. It makes very little difference. Teach those three things good and their employer will do the rest. Millions of Thai children do not know how read and write Thai. Forget about English. Let the employer handle that.

I have worked for logistic companies, of which there are thousands in Thailand, teaching employees the basics of business English. I can do in 90 days what the Thai education system failed to do in 12 years.

Industry has always been years ahead of education. It is easy for them to do and difficult for the Thai education system to do.