Help! Electric jolt while loading washing machine

[jocko]

Jocko

With regard to phase tester screwdrivers, here is a note I placed on another thread.

"Further information about neon phase tester screwdrivers (for the technically curious).

The striking voltage for neon is about 90v and the hysteresis is about 50% (I do not use precise figures because of slight variation between neon bulbs).

So the neon bulb will not extinguish until the voltage across it has reduced to <45v (63.6v rms).

The ac voltage would need to be 90v peak (180v p-p 127.3v rms) before the neon would light.

Once the neon lights the current that flows through the bulb needs to be limited to a safe level. To do this a 1,000,000 Ohm (1M Ohm) resistor is included in series with the bulb.

When checking the 220v live wire the current flowing, disregarding the human body resistance, would be (220v rms - 63.6vrms (from 45v pk)) / 1M Ohm = 0.16mA.

Personally when I buy a new phase tester I first check the resistor.

If the phase tester lights up on both the live and the neutral (yes they must both be checked) then there are problems that need expert attention".

Please rest assured that as long as you don't touch the blade of the screwdriver at the same time as it (the blade) touches the live wire you will be unaffected by the electricity. Incidentally phase testers don't measure anything. They light up when the voltage on the blade that you contact to the live wire is high enough. Obviously there is a downside to relying too much on the phase tester. From the above calculations the wire could be thought to be safe if the neon did not light. However in theory, there could still be a high level of voltage existing (over 100v). Common sense should be applied. If all appliances in the house seem to be working normally then it is probable that there is somewhere in the region of 220v present and not a meagre 100v.

Ok thank's for the info.

[jackflash]

> For AC black is positive, white is negative.

Oh dear. And you claim to be an Electrician !!!!

It depends on the country, but Black is Neutral and White is switched Active.

Positive and Negative have no relevance when discussing AC.

[jackflash]

> Crossy, are you saying that it's normal for a desktop computer to give a shock off the casing if not grounded?

Crossy has already replied, but I would go further.

Single insulated appliances which have a metal case (like computers and washing machines) are intended to be used with an Earth connection.

They usually have an electrical filter which has a capacitor to earth to help suppress electrical interference (both incoming and outgoing).

If there is no Earth, the current through this capacitor will likely give you a tingle if you touch the case or any metal.

More importantly however, if there is an electrical fault it could kill you.

So yes, an appliance fitted with a three pin plug should never be used on an un-earthed power point.

I suspect that in Thailand many suppliers simply substitute a two pin cord.

Edited September 7, 2013 by jackflash

[jackflash]

Jocko,

> This seems a simple test to carry out but i am confused about hold the screw driver with your hand touching the metal part at the handle end if there was a problem would you not get a buzz and your nose would light up?

Good question.

These neon screwdrivers have a high value resistor fitted in the body, so any current flowing should be too small to feel.

It is this very small current which is both their strength and their weakness.

The current flowing is so miniscule that any slight leakage will light the neon thus giving a false indication.

Edited September 7, 2013 by jackflash

[tropo]

> For AC black is positive, white is negative.

Oh dear. And you claim to be an Electrician !!!!

It depends on the country, but Black is Neutral and White is switched Active.

Positive and Negative have no relevance when discussing AC.

If you view my photo earlier, you'll see white, blue and green wires attached to the outlet.

[tropo]

@Tropo, I see from an earlier post you now have a Schuko adaptor and that you've tested the outlet earth with a lamp as I said earlier (the lamp lit)

Excellent. You now have a grounded machine that won't bite.

For your peace of mind only: To be sure it won't bite, you need to find a ground that isn't part of your electrics and measure the AC voltage between the machine and that ground. A big screwdriver in the lawn works well if you can attach a long lead to it, otherwise part of the building steel will do (a balcony rail maybe).

If you don't have a meter, just touch a bare metal part of the machine with the back of your knuckles, you'll soon know if it's OK (using the back of your hand means any reaction will pull you away). To be honest, from what you've said your good lady is now safe.

I don't feel any current using dry bare knuckles. Perhaps I should use wet knuckles and stand on a wet floor to be sure?

[Crossy]

@Tropo, I see from an earlier post you now have a Schuko adaptor and that you've tested the outlet earth with a lamp as I said earlier (the lamp lit)

Excellent. You now have a grounded machine that won't bite.

For your peace of mind only: To be sure it won't bite, you need to find a ground that isn't part of your electrics and measure the AC voltage between the machine and that ground. A big screwdriver in the lawn works well if you can attach a long lead to it, otherwise part of the building steel will do (a balcony rail maybe).

If you don't have a meter, just touch a bare metal part of the machine with the back of your knuckles, you'll soon know if it's OK (using the back of your hand means any reaction will pull you away). To be honest, from what you've said your good lady is now safe.

I don't feel any current using dry bare knuckles. Perhaps I should use wet knuckles and stand on a wet floor to be sure?

If you get the urge

[tropo]

@Tropo, I see from an earlier post you now have a Schuko adaptor and that you've tested the outlet earth with a lamp as I said earlier (the lamp lit)

Excellent. You now have a grounded machine that won't bite.

For your peace of mind only: To be sure it won't bite, you need to find a ground that isn't part of your electrics and measure the AC voltage between the machine and that ground. A big screwdriver in the lawn works well if you can attach a long lead to it, otherwise part of the building steel will do (a balcony rail maybe).

If you don't have a meter, just touch a bare metal part of the machine with the back of your knuckles, you'll soon know if it's OK (using the back of your hand means any reaction will pull you away). To be honest, from what you've said your good lady is now safe.

I don't feel any current using dry bare knuckles. Perhaps I should use wet knuckles and stand on a wet floor to be sure?

If you get the urge

I don't feel the urge right now.

[tropo]

I noticed that my LG microwave and Zanussi oven also have schuko plugs. Why do they sell so many appliances here when schuko wall sockets are rare?

[Nooky2]

Here's some updates:

I checked the outlet and it has 3 wires attached:

wiring 1.jpg

... so I have earth wiring, but don't know yet if it is functional or not. What is the easiest way to test this? Which electrical testing device should I buy to test this?

My plug doesn't have 3 prongs:

plug 1.jpg

... indicating it is not earthed. Should I merely buy a 3 pronged plug and try to attach that? Will the washing machine cord have 3 wires? If so, why did it come with a 2 prong plug? It would be most likely that the machine was purchased with this plug already attached - I can't image the landlord changed the plug at any stage and that he knows much about Thai wiring.

Post # 35 by ThaiTrav drew my attention.... I've been amazed at how fast the front panel of this machine is rusting. I've been using it for 2 1/2 years, so it's probably 3 - 4 years old. The bathroom is on the sunny side of the house so the room tends to be hot and dry as it gets the hot afternoon sun and is on the top floor. Perhaps there's a leaky seal in the machine and water is making it's way into the electrics.

You are wired for ground at the receptacle but the ground has been broken off the plug so it will fit into a 2 prong outlet. So you have no ground going to the appliance.

Edited September 8, 2013 by Nooky2

[Nooky2]

> For AC black is positive, white is negative.

Oh dear. And you claim to be an Electrician !!!!

It depends on the country, but Black is Neutral and White is switched Active.

Positive and Negative have no relevance when discussing AC.

Your statement is completely untrue about polarity. If your statement is true then how do you explain 3 phase motors or appliances? Try switching ANY of those connections and you could potentially fry your devise.

[Crossy]

I noticed that my LG microwave and Zanussi oven also have schuko plugs. Why do they sell so many appliances here when schuko wall sockets are rare?

New appliances are supposed have the latest Thai standard TIS166-2549 (2006) 3-pin plug fitted, exactly why older units were supplied with a plug that is not used in Thailand I don't know.

I've replaced all our Schuko plugs with the 3-pin US style ones from Haco.

[kurnell]

I am an electrician with 44 years of experience and graduated from an approved Electrician course.

Perhaps I can help.

If you have a voltmeter, measure from the machine to something that you know to be grounded,

Such as a metal pipe or rod in the ground.

If you see anything more than a few volts, you have an electrical leak that is touching the cabinet of the

Machine.

Even if you don't have a bad leak, find a screw on the back of the machine or anywhere on the machines

Metal cabinet. Attach a #12 awg or thai equivilent to the cabinet of the machine and run it outside to

A metal rod driven in the ground at least 4 ft. A copper ground rod would be better.

Before attempting, wet the area where the rod will go, it will make it easier to drive the rod and give you a better ground connetion.

After this, it should take care of the electrical,leak.

A rubber rug in front ofnthe machine and rubber sole shoes not flip flop will help.

Once you run the wire and ground it, when you turn the machine on, if you have a bad electrical leak,

It may trip a breaker or blow the fuse to the washer circuit.

If that happen, you need someone to find the leak and fix it.

If you can look at the connection from the machine to the receptacle. Hopefully you will have at least

A 3 wire hookup. 2 hot wires and a neutral. Preferrably a 4 wire hookup. 2 hots a neutral and a separate

Ground. Usually the electric meter will have a ground at the place where it is mounted.

That is required in most western countries. I don't think Thailand worries about it.

ChuLai 6768

You should be renting yourself out. I think you would be swamped

[ignis]

Rubber Backed Rug.jpg

Maybe help, can buy cheap from Supermarkets and DIY places....... or wear rubber based shoe/slippers

Ignore this. It is Total Bullshit advice.

Should have added Maybe help until you get it fixed

Rubber stops you yourself grounding the devise.

[Nooky2]

I am an electrician with 44 years of experience and graduated from an approved Electrician course.

Perhaps I can help.

If you have a voltmeter, measure from the machine to something that you know to be grounded,

Such as a metal pipe or rod in the ground.

If you see anything more than a few volts, you have an electrical leak that is touching the cabinet of the

Machine.

Even if you don't have a bad leak, find a screw on the back of the machine or anywhere on the machines

Metal cabinet. Attach a #12 awg or thai equivilent to the cabinet of the machine and run it outside to

A metal rod driven in the ground at least 4 ft. A copper ground rod would be better.

Before attempting, wet the area where the rod will go, it will make it easier to drive the rod and give you a better ground connetion.

After this, it should take care of the electrical,leak.

A rubber rug in front ofnthe machine and rubber sole shoes not flip flop will help.

Once you run the wire and ground it, when you turn the machine on, if you have a bad electrical leak,

It may trip a breaker or blow the fuse to the washer circuit.

If that happen, you need someone to find the leak and fix it.

If you can look at the connection from the machine to the receptacle. Hopefully you will have at least

A 3 wire hookup. 2 hot wires and a neutral. Preferrably a 4 wire hookup. 2 hots a neutral and a separate

Ground. Usually the electric meter will have a ground at the place where it is mounted.

That is required in most western countries. I don't think Thailand worries about it.

ChuLai 6768

You should be renting yourself out. I think you would be swamped

I am surprised you would make such a statement after claiming 44 years of experience. In a 3-wire config there are not "two-hots". Maybe in your country but not in mine and not in Thailand. In Thailand, you have a 220 volt "hot" and a neutral, then a ground. There are not two hots.

In the US the electric companies achieve 220 volts by center tapping their 220 volt transformers. Center tapping (divides the voltage by half) to achieve 110 volts for common receptacles and using both sides of the center tap connection to achieve 220 volt for appliances such as dryers, stoves, and heating and cooling. So you have a full 220 volts from a full 110 negative and 110 positive where peak-to-peak voltage you will have single phase 220 volts.

In Europe and many other countries such as Thailand you have a straight 220 volts throughout the house for all receptacles. So you have a single voltage here where in the US you 2 voltages, 110 and 220 volts. The configuration for wiring receptacles in the US, Europe, and Thailand are the same. Not the same voltage but the same wiring configuration.

The only place you will see 2-hots, a neutral, and a ground is in the US where you need 2-hots to achieve 220 volts. Here, you don't have that configuration. Only 3 wire.

Edited September 8, 2013 by Nooky2

[Tywais]

> For AC black is positive, white is negative.

Oh dear. And you claim to be an Electrician !!!!

It depends on the country, but Black is Neutral and White is switched Active.

Positive and Negative have no relevance when discussing AC.

In Thailand black is live (hot) and white is neutral.

[wayned]

I noticed that my LG microwave and Zanussi oven also have schuko plugs. Why do they sell so many appliances here when schuko wall sockets are rare?

New appliances are supposed have the latest Thai standard TIS166-2549 (2006) 3-pin plug fitted, exactly why older units were supplied with a plug that is not used in Thailand I don't know.

I've replaced all our Schuko plugs with the 3-pin US style ones from Haco.

Unfortunately the first thing that Thais do is break off the grounding pin because they only have 2 prong sockets. The school where I worked did it in their computer lab and occasionally you would get a "tickle" when you touched the case of a "dirty" computer. Their fix, "don't walk around in your bare feet, wear rubber flip flops in the computer room".

[Crossy]

Unfortunately the first thing that Thais do is break off the grounding pin because they only have 2 prong sockets. The school where I worked did it in their computer lab and occasionally you would get a "tickle" when you touched the case of a "dirty" computer. Their fix, "don't walk around in your bare feet, wear rubber flip flops in the computer room".

It gets worse wayne, I can understand them removing the ground pin when they have only 2-pin outlets (many of our extensions have a pin that unscrews).

The labour who 'installed' our brand new Grundfos water pump snapped off the ground pin before plugging it into the newly installed 3-pin outlet.

When asked why he simply said that he always did it. I gave him a 3-pin plug to fit in place of the damaged one, which resulted in him disappearing for 3 days, when he did return he apparently hid whenever I was on site (I put the plug on).

[Nooky2]

&gt; For AC black is positive, white is negative.

Oh dear. And you claim to be an Electrician !!!!

It depends on the country, but Black is Neutral and White is switched Active.

Positive and Negative have no relevance when discussing AC.

In Thailand black is live (hot) and white is neutral.

Also, every appliance I have observed coming from, USA, UK, Japan, Korea, Sweden, and maybe more that I forget, also has the same color code with black being "hot" and white as neutral.

As far as white being "switched active" is also incorrect. You never switch your neutral. You always switch the hot side of your circuit which is black (or non-white or green). Switch meaning breaking (open) the circuit such as a light switch. Your hot can be several colors depending on the voltage or used in a 3-way light circuit where typically you will see red and blue as your runners then black going to the light. But non-white.

Edited September 8, 2013 by Nooky2

[NCC1701A]

anybody dead yet?

[Crossy]

You could find any of these colour codes in your equipment flex.

US Standard
Live / Hot / Phase -- Black
Neutral -- White or Grey
Earth / Ground -- Green


IEC Standard
Live / Hot / Phase -- Red
Neutral -- Black
Earth / Ground -- Green


European Standard
Live / Hot / Phase -- Brown
Neutral -- Blue
Earth / Ground -- Green/Yellow stripe

I've bought 3-core flex here that's Black, White and Red (had to use red for ground).

[Tywais]

Regarding the tingle from touching a PC. I first came across this over 30 years ago. Working at a university lab one of the students had removed the ground pin from an oscilloscope to do differential measurements on the experiment electronics. Every time I would help him and touch a cable or part in the bay I got the tingle. Couldn't figure out what was going on as all the equipment seemed correct. Dug out the schematic on the scope and looked at the power front end and voila, found the EMI filter. Fast forward to 20 years ago when I started working at a lab here we had PCs that were networked using RG58 coaxial cable. Every time I touched the cable to work on the network - zap. The room was wired with Eagle plugs/sockets and a 3rd pin was there but investigation showed the ground wire was in the sockets but not connected to ground. Got my technician to add one and problem gone.

I was the 1st to bring this issue up on the forum back in 2005 and will re-quote it here.

The technical explanation: This is a result of the EMI/RFI filters on the front end of the computer power supply for electrical noise reduction. These consist of inductors and a couple of capacitors. These caps are connected to the hot & neutral and then to the case as the ground return for the RF noise. Without a ground to drain (earth) you in effect have an AC voltage divider making the case 220/2 = 110 Volts above the earth ground, your floor in other words. Current is limited by the size of the capacitors, that is why it is not a severe zap but disconcerting anyway.

I drilled a hole through the bottom floor of my house where the computer is kept and drove a 3 meter ground stack in. Connected up the third wire from the power strips and no more "surprises". The ground (copper) stacks are easy to buy. If you drill a hole through the floor soke it with water a while before driving the stack in. You can also do this just outside your window and run a wire in.

A friend of mine had this problem in his condo (15th floor). Condo being made of poured concrete and will be modertly conductive so he was getting shocked unless he wore socks on his feet. Told him to run a wire from the computer to the metal rail on the balcony and that fixed the problem for him. Shocking problem

And another topic in 2012 with more technical info.

I've posted the technical diagram a long time ago but here is another one I put together showing the front end of a PC's power supply. In this case the caps are 4700 pF which at 50Hz is 677,000 ohms which will be about 232 microamps at 110VAC peak from case to earth.

[Muhendis]

Tywais,

I am curious to know how the filter circuit works in the case of neutral and earth being bonded together at the consumer unit. Capacitor CY2 would not be in circuit so the effectiveness of the filter is reduced. Could it be that this is a very old design perhaps?

[Tywais]

Tywais,

I am curious to know how the filter circuit works in the case of neutral and earth being bonded together at the consumer unit. Capacitor CY2 would not be in circuit so the effectiveness of the filter is reduced. Could it be that this is a very old design perhaps?

The design concept has been around for decades and still standard for emi (electromagnetic interference) filtering in modern appliances. It is simple, cheap and effective. The purpose is for noise filtering both coming in and going out of the equipment to meet RF/EMI noise standard requirements of equipment. As such, the high side one filters noise (RF) on the hot side and the CY2 filters noise or transients that can occur on the low (neutral) side. Neutral and ground are not necessarily 'clean' plus you don't want the RF/EMI to enter into the building power systems from the consumer equipment.

My designs always use the following type of EMI filter and is the same as in a PC power supply. Note the bottom pin is the ground pin and bonded to the filter case which in turn bonds to the PC case.

//edit - BTW, if you look at most equipment you will see markings either CE for Europe or UL (underwriters laboratories for the US) which is certification that it follows specific standards, one of which is noise emissions.

[Muhendis]

Thank you for your explanation. In checking the specs I now realise that RT1 is the other component in the neutral feed thus maintaining the effectiveness of CY2.

BTW thanks but I am fully aware of emc regs. hence my curiosity.

[worgeordie]

You could find any of these colour codes in your equipment flex.

US Standard

Live / Hot / Phase -- Black

Neutral -- White or Grey

Earth / Ground -- Green

IEC Standard

Live / Hot / Phase -- Red

Neutral -- Black

Earth / Ground -- Green

European Standard

Live / Hot / Phase -- Brown

Neutral -- Blue

Earth / Ground -- Green/Yellow stripe

I've bought 3-core flex here that's Black, White and Red (had to use red for ground).

Thai standard use any colour wire you can find, there does not seem to be any standard here,

just the whim of the electrician doing the work, and to the OP, you should not have a washer in

the bathroom,there should be no electrical outlets in a bath/shower room.

regards Worgeordie

[tropo]

I noticed that my LG microwave and Zanussi oven also have schuko plugs. Why do they sell so many appliances here when schuko wall sockets are rare?

New appliances are supposed have the latest Thai standard TIS166-2549 (2006) 3-pin plug fitted, exactly why older units were supplied with a plug that is not used in Thailand I don't know.

I've replaced all our Schuko plugs with the 3-pin US style ones from Haco.

I just noticed that kettle which I bought at PowerBuy late last year also has a schuko plug. Where can I buy those Haco 3-pin plugs?

[kurnell]

I am an electrician with 44 years of experience and graduated from an approved Electrician course.

Perhaps I can help.

If you have a voltmeter, measure from the machine to something that you know to be grounded,

Such as a metal pipe or rod in the ground.

If you see anything more than a few volts, you have an electrical leak that is touching the cabinet of the

Machine.

Even if you don't have a bad leak, find a screw on the back of the machine or anywhere on the machines

Metal cabinet. Attach a #12 awg or thai equivilent to the cabinet of the machine and run it outside to

A metal rod driven in the ground at least 4 ft. A copper ground rod would be better.

Before attempting, wet the area where the rod will go, it will make it easier to drive the rod and give you a better ground connetion.

After this, it should take care of the electrical,leak.

A rubber rug in front ofnthe machine and rubber sole shoes not flip flop will help.

Once you run the wire and ground it, when you turn the machine on, if you have a bad electrical leak,

It may trip a breaker or blow the fuse to the washer circuit.

If that happen, you need someone to find the leak and fix it.

If you can look at the connection from the machine to the receptacle. Hopefully you will have at least

A 3 wire hookup. 2 hot wires and a neutral. Preferrably a 4 wire hookup. 2 hots a neutral and a separate

Ground. Usually the electric meter will have a ground at the place where it is mounted.

That is required in most western countries. I don't think Thailand worries about it.

ChuLai 6768

You should be renting yourself out. I think you would be swamped

I am surprised you would make such a statement after claiming 44 years of experience. In a 3-wire config there are not "two-hots". Maybe in your country but not in mine and not in Thailand. In Thailand, you have a 220 volt "hot" and a neutral, then a ground. There are not two hots.

In the US the electric companies achieve 220 volts by center tapping their 220 volt transformers. Center tapping (divides the voltage by half) to achieve 110 volts for common receptacles and using both sides of the center tap connection to achieve 220 volt for appliances such as dryers, stoves, and heating and cooling. So you have a full 220 volts from a full 110 negative and 110 positive where peak-to-peak voltage you will have single phase 220 volts.

In Europe and many other countries such as Thailand you have a straight 220 volts throughout the house for all receptacles. So you have a single voltage here where in the US you 2 voltages, 110 and 220 volts. The configuration for wiring receptacles in the US, Europe, and Thailand are the same. Not the same voltage but the same wiring configuration.

The only place you will see 2-hots, a neutral, and a ground is in the US where you need 2-hots to achieve 220 volts. Here, you don't have that configuration. Only 3 wire.

Not claiming 44 years. I think you have me mixed up with someone else. I was never in that bar

[tropo]

You could find any of these colour codes in your equipment flex.

US Standard

Live / Hot / Phase -- Black

Neutral -- White or Grey

Earth / Ground -- Green

IEC Standard

Live / Hot / Phase -- Red

Neutral -- Black

Earth / Ground -- Green

European Standard

Live / Hot / Phase -- Brown

Neutral -- Blue

Earth / Ground -- Green/Yellow stripe

I've bought 3-core flex here that's Black, White and Red (had to use red for ground).

Thai standard use any colour wire you can find, there does not seem to be any standard here,

just the whim of the electrician doing the work, and to the OP, you should not have a washer in

the bathroom,there should be no electrical outlets in a bath/shower room.

regards Worgeordie

I appreciate that, but the outlet is a long way from the shower - about 5 m. There's no chance of shower water hitting the outlet. I will move the water tap for the machine down.

[Nooky2]

I am an electrician with 44 years of experience and graduated from an approved Electrician course.

Perhaps I can help.

If you have a voltmeter, measure from the machine to something that you know to be grounded,

Such as a metal pipe or rod in the ground.

If you see anything more than a few volts, you have an electrical leak that is touching the cabinet of the

Machine.

Even if you don't have a bad leak, find a screw on the back of the machine or anywhere on the machines

Metal cabinet. Attach a #12 awg or thai equivilent to the cabinet of the machine and run it outside to

A metal rod driven in the ground at least 4 ft. A copper ground rod would be better.

Before attempting, wet the area where the rod will go, it will make it easier to drive the rod and give you a better ground connetion.

After this, it should take care of the electrical,leak.

A rubber rug in front ofnthe machine and rubber sole shoes not flip flop will help.

Once you run the wire and ground it, when you turn the machine on, if you have a bad electrical leak,

It may trip a breaker or blow the fuse to the washer circuit.

If that happen, you need someone to find the leak and fix it.

If you can look at the connection from the machine to the receptacle. Hopefully you will have at least

A 3 wire hookup. 2 hot wires and a neutral. Preferrably a 4 wire hookup. 2 hots a neutral and a separate

Ground. Usually the electric meter will have a ground at the place where it is mounted.

That is required in most western countries. I don't think Thailand worries about it.

ChuLai 6768

You should be renting yourself out. I think you would be swamped

I am surprised you would make such a statement after claiming 44 years of experience. In a 3-wire config there are not "two-hots". Maybe in your country but not in mine and not in Thailand. In Thailand, you have a 220 volt "hot" and a neutral, then a ground. There are not two hots.

In the US the electric companies achieve 220 volts by center tapping their 220 volt transformers. Center tapping (divides the voltage by half) to achieve 110 volts for common receptacles and using both sides of the center tap connection to achieve 220 volt for appliances such as dryers, stoves, and heating and cooling. So you have a full 220 volts from a full 110 negative and 110 positive where peak-to-peak voltage you will have single phase 220 volts.

In Europe and many other countries such as Thailand you have a straight 220 volts throughout the house for all receptacles. So you have a single voltage here where in the US you 2 voltages, 110 and 220 volts. The configuration for wiring receptacles in the US, Europe, and Thailand are the same. Not the same voltage but the same wiring configuration.

The only place you will see 2-hots, a neutral, and a ground is in the US where you need 2-hots to achieve 220 volts. Here, you don't have that configuration. Only 3 wire.

Not claiming 44 years. I think you have me mixed up with someone else. I was never in that bar

I am serious electricity because it can hurt people. If I mis-characterized you then I made a mistake. If I can help people here help themselves then that makes me feel good.