Foreigners may no longer require a teacher's license?

[pastafarian]

According to this proposal foreign teachers may no longer require a TL. Obviously it is only just a proposal for now but looks like they may have realised that, despite Thailand having one of the worst levels of English skills of all ASEAN countries, it is one of the hardest for foreigners to teach legally which is why many are leaving and teaching elsewhere, quite often in another ASEAN country.

Most other ASEAN countries have relaxed their requirements and welcomed foreigners to help improve the English skills of their population but Thailand has been doing the opposite!

http://www.dailynews.co.th/education/232094

[transam]

Although it is good news for some of us who genuinely want to do something with our spare time, it could bring in English eeeeeeeeer, hmmmmm, well you know what I mean. IF, vetting is done by qualified farangs, of which there are many, good stuff.

[jambco984]

That will please a few of my friends if it happens.

If schools put in place a criminal record check and did some training for the new teachers even aiding them in progression. I can't see how this would be bad (fingers at the ready to abuse me)

If the teacher did nothing and took a salary then boot them out. If they are willing to learn and don't use the nickname 'Peder' I don't see a problem.

It's probably all hot air anyway

Sent using sausage fingers on my phone

[NeverSure]

With all of the Thais teaching English even at the Uni level, but who can't speak English, an NES who could pass a Tefl would have to be better. Too many Thais are being taught vocabulary and grammar but not learning to speak because the teacher can't speak. This is a massive problem in Isaan where many schools have never had an NES.

I have a friend near Sisaket who is a native Thai teacher. Her education is in math and science. Because she learned English at uni especially while getting her master's, she has been designated as the English teacher. Her speaking ability is horrible and we can barely talk. What she can say has such a terrible Thai accent that no child is really going to learn to use the language. Yet they dutifully have English classes with all communication in Thai. It's a joke.

[SlideRiceFC]

I may be speaking out of turn since I'm not a teacher but considering that many already teach English without proper qualifications it seems this would only serve to make these unqualified teachers eligible for work permits. Thai students' abysmal performance in English is not because there are not enough teachers and even if that were the case having more unqualified teachers would not likely improve this. Every teacher I've ever talked to whether unqualified backpacker type or seasoned veteran holding degrees in education the common thread is that the school ecosystem is not condusive to learning. Teachers can't properly grade or fail students, rampant cheating, ridiculous pecking order between thai and foreign teachers, higher-ups, and even between native and non-native English speaking teachers....the list goes on. I don't think it matters whether they hire the best teachers in the world or they drag some drunk farang off khao san road in front of the class as long as the students are not required to study and learn properly. If this proposal is even serious and not just a wind-up it would seem they are throwing in the towel and admitting that.

Edited September 13, 2013 by SlideRiceFC

[NeverSure]

I may be speaking out of turn since I'm not a teacher but considering that many already teach English without proper qualifications it seems this would only serve to make these unqualified teachers eligible for work permits. Thai students' abysmal performance in English is not because there are not enough teachers and even if that were the case having more unqualified teachers would not likely improve this. Every teacher I've ever talked to whether unqualified backpacker type or seasoned veteran holding degrees in education the common thread is that the school ecosystem is not condusive to learning. Teachers can't properly grade or fail students, rampant cheating, ridiculous pecking order between thai and foreign teachers, higher-ups, and even between native and native English speaking teachers....the list goes on. I don't think it matters whether they hire the best teachers in the world or they drag some drunk farang off khao san road in front of the class as long as the students are not required to study and learn properly. If this proposal is even serious and not just a wind-up it would seem they are throwing in the towel and admitting that.

I agree. It seems like navigating the culture is as much about people skills and patience as it is about teaching. A teacher with a PHD in education from a NES country but unable to deal with the culture is a fail. A teacher with only a TEFL but excellent patience and people skills might be a fail+, LOL.

[transam]

I have had Uni qualified folk in English at my place. Most do not have a clue and I ''teach'' them stuff. I have no degree but I Know I can perfect stuff.

Did I say stuff, mai dee.

[Eddy B]

If this is true then it is nice to see. Thailand now needs to realise it can not inforce the same rules as more developed countries, such as Japan and Korea on people willing and trying to help them bridge the language gap. Of course they need people with skills/ability in teaching, but having a degree is not a 100% perfect teacher; unless it is a more specific field such as the sciences/math. If it is a purely conversational approach then any NES can fulfill this role.

[Thaddeus]

Of course they need people with skills/ability in teaching, but having a degree is not a 100% perfect teacher;

Absolutely, ask Dr Zoe D Katze.

[tingtong]

Was it just a year ago when they were "relaxing" the rules for foreigners to teach English...as part of a government program...for 10.000thb a month.

Was not over-applied in my region.

And i am sorry, if a foreigner needs to pay for accommodation/transportation/some foreigner food and standards...the question remains what as a minimum the schools willing and can afford to offer as salary.

I doubt that most smaller and rural schools will have benefits from this, not now, just as wasn't last year neither.

[Potential Teacher]

With all of the Thais teaching English even at the Uni level, but who can't speak English, an NES who could pass a Tefl would have to be better. Too many Thais are being taught vocabulary and grammar but not learning to speak because the teacher can't speak. This is a massive problem in Isaan where many schools have never had an NES.

I have a friend near Sisaket who is a native Thai teacher. Her education is in math and science. Because she learned English at uni especially while getting her master's, she has been designated as the English teacher. Her speaking ability is horrible and we can barely talk. What she can say has such a terrible Thai accent that no child is really going to learn to use the language. Yet they dutifully have English classes with all communication in Thai. It's a joke.

What is an NES?

[Eddy B]

With all of the Thais teaching English even at the Uni level, but who can't speak English, an NES who could pass a Tefl would have to be better. Too many Thais are being taught vocabulary and grammar but not learning to speak because the teacher can't speak. This is a massive problem in Isaan where many schools have never had an NES.

I have a friend near Sisaket who is a native Thai teacher. Her education is in math and science. Because she learned English at uni especially while getting her master's, she has been designated as the English teacher. Her speaking ability is horrible and we can barely talk. What she can say has such a terrible Thai accent that no child is really going to learn to use the language. Yet they dutifully have English classes with all communication in Thai. It's a joke.

What is an NES?

NES = Native, English, Speaker........such as the USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and the United Kingdom. Not countries that do not use English as their first language.

[Scott]

I am skeptical of most everything the gov't does with regard to education. They seem to be able to go from bad to worse. Once they hit the bottom, they seem to start digging.

As much as it would be a good idea to have qualified English speakers and teachers with a background in Education, it's not necessary on a large scale. The students where I work seem to learn English best when they use it. The students who are sent by the Thai teacher to the Foreign Teachers' office to get things and has to ask in English and then follow instructions are the ones who seem to learn.

Even in bilingual programs you find students who can manage to keep their heads down and not utter a word in English. The students need a lot of exposure to the language to actually become competent. You won't find that in any book.

[pastafarian]

Although this is only a proposal at the moment I hope it becomes a reality as Thailand is losing, and will continue to lose, some excellent teachers due to the increasingly difficult requirements they are demanding foreign teachers meet. Some comments have been made about criminal checks and the safety of the kids but that isn't what this is about, that will still be required and so will the health checks etc

And those that say all teachers should be fully qualified should explain what they mean by 'qualified' as a teacher with teaching qualifications such as a PGCE from their home country, ideally a NES country, won't work in a Thai goverment school earning 30-40k per month, they'll be working in an international school with a salary of at least double that. So that leaves those that are to be deemed competent and qualified by the TCT (Teacher's Council of Thailand) which is the category where the majority of teachers in Thailand fall, most of which are currently exempted from the TCT's license by way of a 2yr waiver letter while they try to pass the almost-impossible-to-pass tests the TCT require someone to pass before they are then 'qualified'.

There are four parts of this test and, apart from the first part, it has a very low pass rate. This generally isn't due to the test-taker's intelligence, ability to teach or English skills though, it is because (like all good Thai tests) many questions are unintelligible and often have more than one correct answer or even none at all. A group of foreign professors from one of the top universities in BKK offered to rewrite the tests for the TCT but they refused their help, I imagine the reason would have mainly been due to loss of face.

Being 'qualified' by the TCT doesn't make someone a good teacher, and in most circumstances having completed a degree doesn't either, and until they realise and accept that then more and more experienced teachers will continue to leave.

[KhaoNiaw]

With all of the Thais teaching English even at the Uni level, but who can't speak English, an NES who could pass a Tefl would have to be better.

I've worked in English departments uni level in Thailand for over 20 years. While you do come across the occasional dud, most of the Thais at this level have excellent English skills and most have master's and PhDs from overseas. There is a need for NES teachers and I think generally those with a degree and TEFL qualification are fine on certain types of courses. But it's unreasonable to present this as an either/or situation. You need to get the best from NES and Thai teachers. Foreigners with a TEFL certificate often fail to realize that they are not experts in language teaching or education and can actually learn a lot from their Thai colleagues. This should work both ways of course and means that foreign teachers need to be able to adapt to the cultural environment.

One of the problems with the education system is that there in no incentive or encouragement to get Thai English teachers of the standard found in universities into the school system. The majority of English teachers here are always going to be Thai and so it's really all about training and getting the best people into the schools.

Edited September 14, 2013 by KhaoNiaw

[culicine]

With all of the Thais teaching English even at the Uni level, but who can't speak English, an NES who could pass a Tefl would have to be better.

I've worked in English departments uni level in Thailand for over 20 years. While you do come across the occasional dud, most of the Thais at this level have excellent English skills and most have master's and PhDs from overseas. There is a need for NES teachers and I think generally those with a degree and TEFL qualification are fine on certain types of courses. But it's unreasonable to present this as an either/or situation. You need to get the best from NES and Thai teachers. Foreigners with a TEFL certificate often fail to realize that they are not experts in language teaching or education and can actually learn a lot from their Thai colleagues. This should work both ways of course and means that foreign teachers need to be able to adapt to the cultural environment.

One of the problems with the education system is that there in no incentive or encouragement to get Thai English teachers of the standard found in universities into the school system. The majority of English teachers here are always going to be Thai and so it's really all about training and getting the best people into the schools.

Correct. My wife has a PhD from Australia - and spent the last 15 years with me conversing in english. Unfortunately, she and her colleagues are too busy with other duties to spend time teaching english (she also has some kind of english teaching certificate she got many moons ago). Most of the unversities will still want native speakers. The problem is getting them - good ones - on the low salaries on offer. I teach maths in an english program to m3-4. That's not so easy, and not for everyone, but I also have a PhD and formal teaching qualifications in my subject area, and the salary is better than what is on offer in most universities here.

[bushwacker]

Sounds like a great idea. So it will never happen!

[fxe1200]

I heard from two schools managed by brits, that they rejected a qualified (diploma in education) teacher, on the reason that he was not a native speaker He lived and worked in the U.S. for a couple of years and speaks English with a slight transatlantic accent. He was not even heard or interviewed by either school. So it is not only the Thai government, which makes things difficult for teachers here.

[lucifer666]

I hope this never happens. I teach English (part time) in a local education center and of the several other English teachers here, the only one that actually CAN speak English ( I'm English BTW) is Canadian. I have stood in for many other teachers here and their students speaking and writing skills are way below what they should be. I struggle to understand them on many occasions, with even the simplest of phrases. Yet somehow they always seem to get good grades. Myself and the Canadian teacher have discussed this many times and are appalled by the quality of the English education here. Allowing just anyone to teach will only serve to make the situation worse.

P.S The spell checker here, has just tried to correct the word "Center" to "Centre". ( Mine is the correct English spelling). Case proven lol

Edited September 14, 2013 by lucifer666

[taqila]

I agree with this post for sure. We pay a lot of money for a good private school in Sisaket and the English teacher is thai and doesn't teach English by speaking English. Now in the 2nd grade, this student of ours yesterday learned to write the word "Car". Pretty good huh? First day of 1st grade I remember the first word to write was "Cat". I'm a volunteer English teacher and don't not read write or speak thai and my students are doing well in spoken English language now and many have good jobs.

What about the "Free Thai Tablets" given to all the 1st grade students last year?? They never use them and ours sits in the house with a broken screen that cost 925b to replace? Anyone hear what's happening using the tablets in the schools?

Posted Yesterday, 22:30

With all of the Thais teaching English even at the Uni level, but who can't speak English, an NES who could pass a Tefl would have to be better. Too many Thais are being taught vocabulary and grammar but not learning to speak because the teacher can't speak. This is a massive problem in Isaan where many schools have never had an NES.

I have a friend near Sisaket who is a native Thai teacher. Her education is in math and science. Because she learned English at uni especially while getting her master's, she has been designated as the English teacher. Her speaking ability is horrible and we can barely talk. What she can say has such a terrible Thai accent that no child is really going to learn to use the language. Yet they dutifully have English classes with all communication in Thai. It's a joke.

[Toscano]

I would , and could teach English in Thailand ; but I do not have a bachelors degree , only a diploma from my arts education , today it would be a degree .

My background and standard of education is far higher than bachelor degree level in Thailand . I have been asked to teach English by a number of schools , but do not want to fall foul of Thai laws . Previously I lived in Italy , where I gave private tuition to university students , school teachers and business men . I do think that a teacher training course would be useful for those who want to teach in a school .

If foreigners don't have to have a license to teach , would that enable me to teach in a school ?

Edited September 14, 2013 by metisdead
Unnecessary usage of bold font removed. Stop posting using bold font, if you continue to post using bold fonts, you posts will likely "disappear".

[Toscano]

In several comments I read mention of teaching English Grammar . Other commenters refer to Teachers not being able to speak intelligible English .

Studying grammar is why few English people learn to speak French or any other European language . Grammar is not the Key to learning a foriegn language , that can follow .

I learnt to speak fluent Italian almost exclusively by conversation . When you talk to people they want to understand what you have to say , never mind the mistakes .

Some friends corrected me when I finished a sentence and made me repeat it correctly . I watched discussion programmes on television and found that in a short time I had corrected grammar and idioms in my speech .

[BlackJack]

I hope this never happens. I teach English (part time) in a local education center and of the several other English teachers here, the only one that actually CAN speak English ( I'm English BTW) is Canadian. I have stood in for many other teachers here and their students speaking and writing skills are way below what they should be. I struggle to understand them on many occasions, with even the simplest of phrases. Yet somehow they always seem to get good grades. Myself and the Canadian teacher have discussed this many times and are appalled by the quality of the English education here. Allowing just anyone to teach will only serve to make the situation worse.

P.S The spell checker here, has just tried to correct the word "Center" to "Centre". ( Mine is the correct English spelling). Case proven lol

sorry but people now rarely write - they text. tweet, etc in a language that although gramatically incorrect is understandable to them. This trend will continue so that one day you will only be signing your name.

the problem is practice in speaking English - as there's not enough NES people to go around and no incentive to offer their services.

if the Government relaxes the Immigration rules then some NES retirees might give up some time to speak English with these kids - I say this as the Schools and Uni's dont pay that much - so if a retiree gives up a few hours a week for English classes the Government should give them special consideration when applying for the retirement extension visa or the 90 day show your face rule.

There are 6 schools and Uni's around where I live and I bet they would go for this idea.

[Phuket electrician]

Thailand is an exporting country in a third world region. An unskilled labor force is required to work in agriculture, automotive assembly, electronic assembly, ceramic and fabric production, hotel and tourism.

Thailand allocates 23% of GDP to Education, corruption ensure money is poorly distributed. Strange thing is they don't drink a comparative amount of 'tea.'

Owners and managers require English language to communicate in international trade.

An unskilled labor force has no use for English language so why waste scarce resources teaching them?

Government posturing promotes Thailand as a 'hub' to everything. Native English speakers with a skill set congruent with a western degree and a language teaching certificate are sort to present language to Thais with the money to pay for it. It's about white faces - not black faces with Education degrees.

Thailand has a blinkered world view. They invented everything worth inventing. And any good idea can only be thought up by a Thai.

Only when Thailand's view of the world is compared to a different norm that a comparison is made. Thai culture - unskilled, disorganised labour designed to consume, produce and assemble.

[hanuman2543]

Thailand is an exporting country in a third world region. An unskilled labor force is required to work in agriculture, automotive assembly, electronic assembly, ceramic and fabric production, hotel and tourism. 

 

Thailand allocates 23% of GDP to Education, corruption ensure money is poorly distributed. Strange thing is they don't drink a comparative amount of 'tea.' 

 

Owners and managers require English language to communicate in international trade.

 

An unskilled labor force has no use for English language so why waste scarce resources teaching them?

 

Government posturing promotes Thailand as a 'hub' to everything. Native English speakers with a skill set congruent with a western degree and a language teaching certificate are sort to present language to Thais with the money to pay for it. It's about white faces - not black faces with Education degrees.

 

Thailand has a blinkered world view. They invented everything worth inventing.  And any good idea can only be thought up by a Thai. 

 

Only when Thailand's view of the world is compared to a different norm that a comparison is made. Thai culture - unskilled, disorganised labour designed to consume, produce and assemble. 

Spot on

Sent from my i-mobile IQ XA using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Phuket electrician]

A preferably white skinned native language teacher doesn't say or know anything, do anything, don't think, come up with ideas or rock the boat. Manage this simple task and present TEFL methodology until the cows come home for B30,000/month. 3 months paid holiday, WP, visa, and a self perceived sense of worth.

Personally it's a better deal than making money in Europe and spending it on traveling to SE Asia twice a year.

One lesson in life, everyone's different.

[Scott]

I wonder if teachers will still need to have a degree?

[pastafarian]

I would , and could teach English in Thailand ; but I do not have a bachelors degree , only a diploma from my arts education , today it would be a degree .

My background and standard of education is far higher than bachelor degree level in Thailand . I have been asked to teach English by a number of schools , but do not want to fall foul of Thai laws . Previously I lived in Italy , where I gave private tuition to university students , school teachers and business men . I do think that a teacher training course would be useful for those who want to teach in a school .

If foreigners don't have to have a license to teach , would that enable me to teach in a school ?

There are many like you that would teach English if they were allowed to but the TCT prevent them from doing so. First they wanted everyone that taught here to have completed a degree in any subject, even it was in a totally unrelated subject and done 30-40 years ago. Now they want all teachers to have a degree in education which is ridiculous, those with education degrees will most likely be working in an international school, who would work in a government school on half the salary if they had the choice?!

It is common knowledge that a high school diploma from the USA or A-Levels from the UK are similar to a degree in Thailand which is why it is frustrating to see them continue to demand ALL teachers have at least a degree. In Thailand people without at least a degree are considered worthless and are never given any sort of opportunity to prove themselves, very different to America/UK/Australia where people are given jobs based on their ability and potential, not just their education. The likes of Steve Jobs and Richard Branson wouldn't be allowed to teach here as neither completed a degree and there are hundreds, if not thousands, of people in Thailand who have years of life/work experience that would benefit them in terms of classroom management, teaching methodology, student motivation etc etc yet can't just because they don't have a degree.

The foreign teachers where I work are quite a mixed bunch, some have years of teaching experience while some have just one or two, most have degrees but a couple don't, most are in there twenties and thirties but there are one or two in their fifties but we all have one thing in common which is our attitude to teaching. We are seldom late and always stay for the duration of the lesson with a proper lesson plan and if, on the odd occasion, one of us is absent then someone will substitute. Now compare that to the majority of Thai teachers who are often late and then their class consists of copying from a textbook onto the board which the students then copy into their workbooks, with the answers too of course. Many teachers don't attend their class and when they don't they never get a teacher to substitute for them so the kids just listen to music or play facebook for the whole 50mins. So for sure, a NES that has completed a TEFL and has the desire to teach would be a far better choice even without a degree than a Thai with no English skills.

Edited September 14, 2013 by pastafarian

[culicine]

I wonder if teachers will still need to have a degree?

I'd rather take an experienced teacher (in the Thai teaching context), over a fresh university graduate any day. Just think back to when we graduated - I certainly didn't 'know' too much! Certainly not about teaching and not about life in general. Life and teaching experience gave me the tools to blitz through my Grad Dip Ed, which I did from 2004/08. The units would have been much more difficult without real classroom teaching experience - and that was commented upon by a number of my assignment assessors. Having said that, it's really not acceptable to employ young people with no degree and no other training. At the least, having a degree shows the person values having an education, even if it doesn't make them a good teacher. I don't know how someone can teach well if they don't see value in what they are teaching. A degree should be mandatory for upper level technical subjects in english/bilingual programs. I highly doubt my school would employ a degree-less teacher for these subjects, even if the official requirements were relaxed.

[transam]

As a kid I failed my English exams , but half a century on, reading books, reading here with that wonderful spell check gizmo l can help anyone with their English, to speak perfect English, and my big point is, that l do. Not in a school but in my everyday life if people ask.

PS. From London. Nooooooo accent.

Edited September 14, 2013 by transam