Foreigners may no longer require a teacher's license?

[Phuket electrician]

With experience of 'full-time' language teaching here. You need to organise and present between three and six 16 week courses each 20 week semester, record attendance of 200 + students, design exams and assess their ability with sensibility. Then do it all again with three and six different subjects and 200 + different students in the next 20 week time frame.

Know how to use a computer, make sound reasoned decisions and display professional judgement and conduct.

My personal experience is that this is very similar to studying for a western degree. There is minimal managerial support. You will not be told you are off track just not offered a new contract when it comes up for renewal.

This is not a difficult job for an experienced graduate. Without this experience or other relevant experience, I don't know.

Edited September 14, 2013 by Phuket electrician

[theblether]

Whatever it takes, we must drive standards up. I can't take any more of these spelling mistakes.

Gawd I had to edit to fix a spelling mistake, that'll teach me.

Edited September 14, 2013 by theblether

[yourauntbob]

I have a teachers license and it is meaningless other than a barrier to entry. There are three ways to accomplish this feat. 1) have a teaching license from another country... any country. 2) pass the standardized test, which from what i hear has many grammatical mistakes on it and at times multiple correct answers and at other times no real correct answer. 3) pass a course online or through a local University which teaches you very little (this is how i got mine) and is simply a scheme to extract some money out of foreign teachers.

IMHO teachers licenses should be done away with. they dont serve much purpose and prove nothing. the government should help schools recruit, hire, and evaluate teachers on their merit. i have several friends who do not have a license and are good teachers.... as in they help students learn. I also know quite a few that fall on the inverse of that equation.

[pacovl46]

A friend of mine actually took the examination for the teacher's license and he said it was the most incoherent multiple choice test he ever came across. It was full with spelling and grammatical errors and didn't make any sense whatsoever.

[Foxglove]

I was an engineer working in Thailand, I am now retired in Thailand. I have a degree blurb blurb blurb.

Many of these so called teachers with TL can't even spell. A change in the law will make things much much worse,

this is a fact. Trying to finish the crossword in the local bars newspaper is an education in itself after the "so-called teachers" have tried

[pastafarian]

I was an engineer working in Thailand, I am now retired in Thailand. I have a degree blurb blurb blurb.

Many of these so called teachers with TL can't even spell. A change in the law will make things much much worse,

this is a fact. Trying to finish the crossword in the local bars newspaper is an education in itself after the "so-called teachers" have tried

There are some 'teachers' like that, especially in the tourist areas, that have very poor English skills which is actually my point. The law about requiring a teacher's license is actually new itself and because of it many very good teachers are actually leaving Thailand as they are unable to stay here legally. The ones that are still here probably have the required degree even if it was completed 20-30 yrs ago, that is the only thing that the TCT check, they don't do any employmment history checks, English ability test, teaching ability test, peer/student evaluation etc etc which is much more important than a few years spent at Uni drinking and shagging with the occasional day spent studying.

I recently met a chap from London in his late forties that had been plastering for the last 20+ years but moved to Thailand a few years ago, just listening to him speak was a task with many grammatical errors so I imagine his written English was worse. Yet he was 'teaching' in a village school and was able to do so because he was a NES with a degree, the fact he was sat on a barstool every night of the week doesn't matter. If you then compare him to a colleague of mine in his mid thirties, dropped out of Warwick University (one of the top universities in England) in his third year as he was offered a good job and then spent 10yrs working for a number of blue chip companies but now living here with a wife and kid. My colleague has been teaching here for 7yrs yet is considering leaving due to the uncertainty as to whether he can stay working/living here, there is something very wrong if the former is preferred to the latter!

[Loaded]

I've heard from someone quite senior in the Private Schools Association that the MoE has finally realized that the TCT teacher license requirements are a barrier to improving Thai students' language skills as they have made it too difficult for Thai schools to hire sufficient numbers of foreign teachers to teach English. 3 Education Acts need to be changed by parliament. This may take a while.

[donmuang37]

First let me say that I believe the reason Thailand ranks so low in English skills is consistent with their other low standards for education: the ruling elite don't want the masses educated because uneducated people are much easier to manipulate and are more willing to work for low wages.

With regard to teaching licenses, be aware that different categories of schools have different requirements. Some large, influential government schools can get work permits for teachers with no university degree. Where I work, teachers are required to have a bachelor's degree and a TEFL (TESOL, CELTA, etc.) in order to qualify for a legitimate work permit. A teacher's license is not required.

I agree that academic credentials, while generally desirable, don't guarantee good teaching skills. I've had Ph.D.s who couldn't last the day and I know folks with no degree who are excellent teachers. But in Thailand, there are plenty of teachers who have no work permit but can easily find work. And plenty of schools who ignor the rules. Thais usually hate rules.

[Foggy Bottom]

I hope this never happens. I teach English (part time) in a local education center and of the several other English teachers here, the only one that actually CAN speak English ( I'm English BTW) is Canadian. I have stood in for many other teachers here and their students speaking and writing skills are way below what they should be. I struggle to understand them on many occasions, with even the simplest of phrases. Yet somehow they always seem to get good grades. Myself and the Canadian teacher have discussed this many times and are appalled by the quality of the English education here. Allowing just anyone to teach will only serve to make the situation worse.

P.S The spell checker here, has just tried to correct the word "Center" to "Centre". ( Mine is the correct English spelling). Case proven lol

if you're British English, Lucifer, then you're wrong.

Centre = a point in the middle, a location, a place (in British English)

Center = someone or something that makes cents (in British English)

In American English, center is used the same as the British centre and is most prevalent internationally in computer programming such as the HTML positioning command " align=center".

[givenall]

Although it is good news for some of us who genuinely want to do something with our spare time, it could bring in English eeeeeeeeer, hmmmmm, well you know what I mean. IF, vetting is done by qualified farangs, of which there are many, good stuff.

it may actually be to allow Philippians to come to teach in 2015 which would be a lot cheaper than frangs teachers

[dighambara]

With all of the Thais teaching English even at the Uni level, but who can't speak English, an NES who could pass a Tefl would have to be better. Too many Thais are being taught vocabulary and grammar but not learning to speak because the teacher can't speak. This is a massive problem in Isaan where many schools have never had an NES.

I have a friend near Sisaket who is a native Thai teacher. Her education is in math and science. Because she learned English at uni especially while getting her master's, she has been designated as the English teacher. Her speaking ability is horrible and we can barely talk. What she can say has such a terrible Thai accent that no child is really going to learn to use the language. Yet they dutifully have English classes with all communication in Thai. It's a joke.

There are millions of native English speaking retirees who would love to interact at the local school, but the retirement visa forbids working. In fact, the English translation is so strict that a foreigner can't even take out the garbage.

Thailand needs to wake up to the needs of the people to work and learn on an international level. Friends in the US love Thai, Indian and Chinese movies, but Thai movies with subtitles are difficult to find. Somehow, producers must learn that for every penny earned in Thailand, there are potentially 600 pennies to be made internationally.

[aidenai]

I believe it's all the old news as published by previous minister of education Suchart Thada-Thamrongvech on 29 June 2012. The forum rules forbid to post an excerpt or the link to that article but the essence of it all is that degree holders in for example physics will be allowed to teach physics in basic education schools without holding a degree in education or equivalent as described by law. The Teachers' Council of Thailand will provide for such degree holders a teacher license exemption letter. The teacher license exemption letter applies to teaching one or more specific subjects related to the applicant's university degree of study. AFAIK, the proposed amendment applies to both Thai and foreign teachers.

[Scott]

Thanks for the input, Aidenai, you are immensely helpful.

I can understand how this would work with Physics, Chemistry, Upper level Mathematics, but how would it work with English teachers?

Would a Physics teacher, for example, be limited to only teaching Physics -- not that the schools would necessarily pay any attention to the regulations, but just curious?

[tigergrl]

I hope this never happens. I teach English (part time) in a local education center and of the several other English teachers here, the only one that actually CAN speak English ( I'm English BTW) is Canadian. I have stood in for many other teachers here and their students speaking and writing skills are way below what they should be. I struggle to understand them on many occasions, with even the simplest of phrases. Yet somehow they always seem to get good grades. Myself and the Canadian teacher have discussed this many times and are appalled by the quality of the English education here. Allowing just anyone to teach will only serve to make the situation worse.

P.S The spell checker here, has just tried to correct the word "Center" to "Centre". ( Mine is the correct English spelling). Case proven lol

"Centre" is the British spelling.. you know? the Queen's English.. it's perfectly correct.

[nedkellylives]

All of the so called English teachers I have met have no recognized qualifications and cannot speak Thai which I believe is essential if you want to teach a Thai person English

[Slip]

All of the so called English teachers I have met have no recognized qualifications and cannot speak Thai which I believe is

essential if you want to teach a Thai person English

An interesting point. Why exactly do you believe that the ability to speak Thai is essential to teaching a Thai student to speak English?

[aidenai]

Thanks for the input, Aidenai, you are immensely helpful.

I can understand how this would work with Physics, Chemistry, Upper level Mathematics, but how would it work with English teachers?

Would a Physics teacher, for example, be limited to only teaching Physics -- not that the schools would necessarily pay any attention to the regulations, but just curious?

Thanks for asking. I think this will all be defined in the implementation rules when the amendment will be endorsed. I think physics, chemistry, biology or other science related studies will be allowed to teach general science up to junior high school level. On high school level the field of study must be directly related to the teaching subject. I personally have a M.Sc.in technical management. I think, the proposed rules will not be of any advantage for me. Or perhaps only primary school general science. In regards to teaching English language in basic education schools, I think you can think about degrees in English language, literature or even TESOL that will be exempt of having a teacher license.

[culicine]

Thanks for the input, Aidenai, you are immensely helpful.

I can understand how this would work with Physics, Chemistry, Upper level Mathematics, but how would it work with English teachers?

Would a Physics teacher, for example, be limited to only teaching Physics -- not that the schools would necessarily pay any attention to the regulations, but just curious?

...and given that a large number of english teachers do not have a degree in 'english', then how would that work? Many did accounting, economics, engineering, but i know very few who actually did a degree in the arts with a major in linguistics. Perhaps a TEFL course would then be mandatory for such teachers...who knows. Will be interesting to see how this plays out, as many teachers are nearing the end of their provisional licence renewals. Only one teacher in my school has passed the 4 exams, and there are a couple with other credentials. It's starting to look grim for other teachers though. Perhaps be done with it and get qualified Philippine teachers - the problem is that they are not well qualified for teaching advanced sci/maths.

[culicine]

All of the so called English teachers I have met have no recognized qualifications and cannot speak Thai which I believe is

essential if you want to teach a Thai person English

An interesting point. Why exactly do you believe that the ability to speak Thai is essential to teaching a Thai student to speak English?

Might as well carry on as usual and have Thai teachers teach them - and we can see the results of that scenario !

I've NEVER used Thai in 13 years in a classroom here. No need. Younger grades have a Thai assistant to help, and after a few years, the kids can follow instructions in english.

[aidenai]

Thanks for the input, Aidenai, you are immensely helpful.

I can understand how this would work with Physics, Chemistry, Upper level Mathematics, but how would it work with English teachers?

Would a Physics teacher, for example, be limited to only teaching Physics -- not that the schools would necessarily pay any attention to the regulations, but just curious?

...and given that a large number of english teachers do not have a degree in 'english', then how would that work? Many did accounting, economics, engineering, but i know very few who actually did a degree in the arts with a major in linguistics. Perhaps a TEFL course would then be mandatory for such teachers...who knows. Will be interesting to see how this plays out, as many teachers are nearing the end of their provisional licence renewals. Only one teacher in my school has passed the 4 exams, and there are a couple with other credentials. It's starting to look grim for other teachers though. Perhaps be done with it and get qualified Philippine teachers - the problem is that they are not well qualified for teaching advanced sci/maths.

They have to sit the professional knowledge tests or study for an education degree or study a graduate diploma in education course. On top of this they have to attend the Thai culture course.

[Phuket electrician]

Teacher is a bit of a misnomer. Native language instructors are not required to understand education only present the language. As some members have said grammar is not important. It is exposure and language use through repetition, drilling and corralling that is required from a ELS 'teacher'.

Please don't assume the word teacher in Thailand to mean the same thing as in the west. A white skinned ELS language instructor is referred to as a professor in a Thai university. Likewise a guy working in a bike repair shop or fixes air con is referred to as an engineer.

Phuket is know as a city but we know a city must have a cathedral - in England.

This is not the west.

[rct99q]

Can anyone tell me how long Thailand has had NES working here? I believe they have been here for close on 30 years. Most that I know did not previously have degrees ect. And where has that gotten the average Thai student? Probably the worst out of the AEC Nations. So if you have not improved the quality of the Thai students language skills without having degrees in the past 30 years, what makes anyone believe they can do better in the next 30 years.

I believe that was the reasoning behind the Thai authorities wanting "educated" people teaching their children (degrees). They could not do any worse than the people working here the last 30 years. Or is it all the Thai teachers fault?

[Scott]

An inflammatory post has been deleted. Do not criticize the grammar, spelling etc. of posters. Continue to do so and you will be suspended.

[oops]

Just because a foreigner helps Thai student with their English doesn't make him a teacher and this whole issue has been going on every since some moron introduced the Tefol, Tesol courses for a fee, then had the government make it a law. While it does help to get some formal training it's really not necessary for English motivators, which is what they should be called instead of a teachers.. Their job is solely to get the students to speak and make sure they have fun in the class. This has just been a dog and pony show for the wealthy while their children enjoy quality learning at an international school. In addition to that, the games that the Thai teachers like to play on the foreigners at the schools is just all totally ridicules. Things like making them use their own money to buy materials for the classes. While these English motivators are not equal to a real teacher they are equally important. Each school can hire a qualified linguistic major or someone who has an actual teaching degree. Then that person like any other trade can hire these motivators or apprentices to carry out what he/she thinks needs to be done to get the students speaking English.

However, I do think a background check is important.

Edited September 14, 2013 by oops

[pastafarian]

Can anyone tell me how long Thailand has had NES working here? I believe they have been here for close on 30 years. Most that I know did not previously have degrees ect. And where has that gotten the average Thai student? Probably the worst out of the AEC Nations. So if you have not improved the quality of the Thai students language skills without having degrees in the past 30 years, what makes anyone believe they can do better in the next 30 years.

I believe that was the reasoning behind the Thai authorities wanting "educated" people teaching their children (degrees). They could not do any worse than the people working here the last 30 years. Or is it all the Thai teachers fault?

So over the last 30yrs all Thai students have been taught by a NES?! The actual % of schools that have employed foreigners as teachers is very low, perhaps a ratio of one foreigner to every 20 Thai teachers and that is a generous guesstimate. The majority of English teaching has been, and still often is, done by Thai teachers with very poor English skills, especially their pronunciation and conversation ability. NES speakers generally do improve their students English more than a Thai teacher would but having 1-2hrs a week with a NES isn't enough, they need much more exposure to English than that and they don't get it anywhere else!

NES speakers usually teach using meaningful learning which involves critical thinking instead of the piss-poor rote learning that is the norm in Thai schools where questioning of a teacher by a student is discouraged. I think if you visited a school where the majority of teaching is done by NES teachers you'd be surprised as to the level of English skills of the students. What students need from a country where English is a foreign language (not a second language) is consistent exposure to English, ideally by a native speaker, all the way through their education but very few students are fortunate enough to experience that.

[Scott]

A troll post has been removed. Please stay on topic.

[ozyjon]

I met many English teachers in Laos that left LOS and i became inquisitive as to why go there,,

reasons being it's cheaper, more opportunities, girls. But,, the reality of the job is that eventually many un-qualified teachers end up in poverty Why,, you get paid $10 US per hour,,, maybe You work when you are called,, maybe 5 - 15 hours per week but remember the time to prepare lessons and to mark papers you are not paid for that.

Priority is given to Laos teachers that have gone abroad to get teaching qualification, even though they can't speak English eventually teachers get squeezed out and are too poor to relocate. The reality sometimes is clouded and the experienced ones just laugh,, with qualifications and a contract you can get more money but just look at it as a work experience thing,, you will become poor if you don't have extra money to survive or an exit plan,...

[tonypace02]

Give up!

[NeverSure]

Can anyone tell me how long Thailand has had NES working here? I believe they have been here for close on 30 years. Most that I know did not previously have degrees ect. And where has that gotten the average Thai student? Probably the worst out of the AEC Nations. So if you have not improved the quality of the Thai students language skills without having degrees in the past 30 years, what makes anyone believe they can do better in the next 30 years.

I believe that was the reasoning behind the Thai authorities wanting "educated" people teaching their children (degrees). They could not do any worse than the people working here the last 30 years. Or is it all the Thai teachers fault?

The problem is the school system. Kids aren't required to study or learn. Everyone passes. Face is more important than accountability. Teachers are helpless against this culture. Teachers are afraid of the school and the parents due to face. A Western degree in education is no help against this.

How did I learn to speak English? Was it from someone with a PHD or was it from my mother and father and neighbors, almost accidentally by being exposed to it and needing it to fend? How else did I learn to tell someone I needed to go to the bathroom, or that I was hungry? How else did I know what my mother wanted when she called to me to tell me lunch was ready?

Fact. First I learned to speak fluently by being immersed in the language. Next at age 6 I went to school and over time was taught spelling and grammar and, horrors, how to diagram a sentence. Thais have it backwards. They too often teach writing, grammar, even spelling but not speaking. Thus the children don't really understand the use of what they are learning. Despite all of the grammar teaching, when they try to speak it, it's with Thai sentence structure.

English is overrunning world culture because it is the language of the internet. This one invention alone assures that English is the future. It assures that the future is not Chinese and certainly not Thai. Any child who wishes to truly advance in his future world will need English or he will be stuck in a factory or a rice paddy.

I don't have either a degree or a TEFL, but I can teach Thai children to speak English. I've had a taste of it and it was fun and I was succeeding. Thai children like things to be fun.

Now you may grade my paper, LOL.

[landslide]

Having a Thai teaching English but unable to truly speak the language is not a problem limited to Thailand. I spent a couple of years working in Brazil. A friend's daughter was a university graduate with a degree in English, and was teaching the language at a local school in Santos. Her father was very proud of his daughter, as she was the first university graduate in the family, and the only member who could speak English. I was invited to dinner one evening to meet his daughter. My attempts to speak English with her were an utter failure. She could read and right the language very well, but had no clue as to pronunciation. She was really embarrassed at her inability to understand me. I reverted to Portuguese for the balance of the evening. Over the next year and a half, until I was transferred out of Brazil, we met for coffee twice a week, just to speak English. Once she had the opportunity to speak with an NES (me), her spoken English improved dramatically. I am not a teacher, but we all learned our native language through hearing and repeating. She had been taught the nuts and bolts of English, but once she had the opportunity to speak the language with a native, she really blossomed.