Lifting education system will require wholehearted effort

[pisico]

No article or editorial has yet to hit the nail on the head. The Thai Government does not want an educated population. Much easier to control the masses if they believe spirits caused Thai Air to skid off the runway, tourism grows higher every year no matter what, and Thailand actually has some sort of positive image abroad.

Educated population? Where are the public libraries? That in itself is proof that education is not and has never been a priority of past or present administrations. The same rituals learned in school that have no connection to knowledge needed in the real world in business, science or industry are given a greater priority and allotted time than important subject matters.

The same way that vendors of all sorts feel entitled to and have the right to use, occupy and invade public property and footpaths, Thailand, a hub for producing cheap, generic medicine that violates Intellectual Property, continues on its parochial path as they have for hundreds of years. This is a country of followers, copiers and drones. Anybody needs a DVD of the latest movie, a Louis Vuitton bag or Ray Ban sunglasses...? All that is available all over Thailand... not the originals, off course.

When ASEAN hits full force and Thais see that they have to be competitive in a communal environment, the cries and rallies to demand getting out of ASEAN will be the most visible consequence of the inability of Thais as a whole to be competitive, to adapt, to be innovative and to show critical thinking and initiative.

Thailand is like a beautiful lady resting on the laurels of her charm and appeal, begrudgingly accepting the gifts laid at he feet.

How many years a beautiful woman has to study in order to be beautiful? Beauty has nothing to do with personality, character or intelligence as we all know.

Education will continue dragging the country down, even deeper, because a quick fix (or a long term one) cannot be accepted by the mentality that have pervaded the country for eons: from the top members of the powers that be to the most humble citizen.

They are proudly Thais and nothing else matters. Their luck will run out when that pride will not get them any perks after the ASEAN community becomes a daily reality and they cannot fulfill the most basic requirements.

About This last point, lest someone think I am a basher I ask: why after so many decades of benefiting from the expertise and know-how of the automotive industry (Toyota, Honda, Isuzu, Ford, GMC, Mercedes, etc.) why this country cannot produce a national car, designed by Thais, built by Thais and bought by Thais? There was a feeble attempt to this and it lasted less than 2 years. Thai Ron, was the name and it vanished because Thais do not trust their own industrial products. I think they know something we do not.

[hellodolly]

The Thai education system will never change as long as there is a PM in office be they Dem. Or PTPredshirt who is not dedicated to changing it. Using the Ministry as a pay off for support and changing them like they are in a revolving door will for ever hinder the process no matter how many good ideas come forward.

The list of good ideas is long but it is useless under the present system. Until Thailand can get a PM dedicated to education the process will not even begin. Once they get some one dedicated it will still take a generation before we begin to see any real returns on it. There are teachers in the system now who would qualify as a teacher but not nearly enough. They must start training the college professors how to teach and what to teach and then things will begin to happen.

Until then the kids are enjoying their pads as long as they last. Not really learning but enjoying.

[isawasnake]

This does not need too much effort at all to be improved. Systems that are already refined require a lot of effort for improvement; the entire law of diminishing returns theory. Thailand is in a wonderful position to make HUGE strides by doing nothing more than pulling their collective head out of their ass. Simply being able to fail students in both private and public school would reap immediate benefits. What rich parent wants to pay again for their kid to repeat a grade? What student wants to be the dumbass that was help back?

Edited September 22, 2013 by isawasnake

[northernjohn]

One simple step would be to ALLOW falang volunteers to TEACH CONVERSATIONAL ENGLISH in the public schools without all the BS about having a work permit for doing something for free.

There are thousands of warm hearted retired expats who are bored to death and would be glad to donate a day or two a week to interact with the kids and at least ATTEMPT to get them to speak English.

In my experience in a rural school I have found that many of the kids actually can read and write English fairly well...BUT...since the TESTS that are sent up from Bangkok all are WRITTEN and since the teachers all know that their performance can be based on these written test results they of course concentrate ALL of their teaching efforts on the reading and writing....meantime the kids receive basically ZERO instruction/practice on actually SPEAKING and UNDERSTANDING English....many Thai teachers of English teach their English classes in THAI.....

IF IF IF the govt would offer a one year no hassle visa to expats in return for them doing some basic conversation teaching they would likely get a lot of volunteers. Naturally there would need to be some rules and regulations and minimium qualifications like xx hours per week, always a thai teacher in classroom with ex pat (don't need the perverts) etc.

Of course I realize that this is likely a dream but I continue to think it is truly sad not to utilize the time and talents of so many expats who WOULD be willing to help FOR FREE. It is called a win/win to give bored retired expats something to do and the kids might actually get up the courage to attempt to USE the English they know in the REAL WORLD of speaking and understanding.

Well speaking as an expat here on a retirement visa I would be glad to offer my services. I in no way could teach grammar as I am never sure of weather I have it right or not. But I could teach just conversational English.

I know what you mean about understanding the language I speak a very little Thai but if you speak it to me I have to stop and think about it for a while. When I was in Siem Reap the last time we had a guide who spoke English but could barley understand it. Talking with him could be very frustrating.

I do how ever believe that learning English is not the answer to Thailand's problems. They need more researchers engineers and what not. Most of the Thais will never need to speak English but it will/would be a help in developing their ability to think things out. Some thing that is not allowed in other classes. also it might serve to give them a sense of accomplishment.

[Thai at Heart]

One simple step would be to ALLOW falang volunteers to TEACH CONVERSATIONAL ENGLISH in the public schools without all the BS about having a work permit for doing something for free.

There are thousands of warm hearted retired expats who are bored to death and would be glad to donate a day or two a week to interact with the kids and at least ATTEMPT to get them to speak English.

In my experience in a rural school I have found that many of the kids actually can read and write English fairly well...BUT...since the TESTS that are sent up from Bangkok all are WRITTEN and since the teachers all know that their performance can be based on these written test results they of course concentrate ALL of their teaching efforts on the reading and writing....meantime the kids receive basically ZERO instruction/practice on actually SPEAKING and UNDERSTANDING English....many Thai teachers of English teach their English classes in THAI.....

IF IF IF the govt would offer a one year no hassle visa to expats in return for them doing some basic conversation teaching they would likely get a lot of volunteers. Naturally there would need to be some rules and regulations and minimium qualifications like xx hours per week, always a thai teacher in classroom with ex pat (don't need the perverts) etc.

Of course I realize that this is likely a dream but I continue to think it is truly sad not to utilize the time and talents of so many expats who WOULD be willing to help FOR FREE. It is called a win/win to give bored retired expats something to do and the kids might actually get up the courage to attempt to USE the English they know in the REAL WORLD of speaking and understanding.

Well speaking as an expat here on a retirement visa I would be glad to offer my services. I in no way could teach grammar as I am never sure of weather I have it right or not. But I could teach just conversational English.

I know what you mean about understanding the language I speak a very little Thai but if you speak it to me I have to stop and think about it for a while. When I was in Siem Reap the last time we had a guide who spoke English but could barley understand it. Talking with him could be very frustrating.

I do how ever believe that learning English is not the answer to Thailand's problems. They need more researchers engineers and what not. Most of the Thais will never need to speak English but it will/would be a help in developing their ability to think things out. Some thing that is not allowed in other classes. also it might serve to give them a sense of accomplishment.

English is just part of it.

Seems the most vital engineers in Thailand at the moment, might by hydrologists. Just consider, this is the country of water pushers.

A long way to go I fear...

[Phuket electrician]

Great post. Did you read the whole thread?

Private University?

[nong38]

The system is just a conduit. If your family have money you go to the right school and come out with the right papers, you then get a job through connections, whether you can do it or not, if you cannot it will swept under the carpet and someone will do the job for you, for life-you get the fat salary the other someone does not.

If your family has no money, no matter how talented your are, you have little or no future especially when age becomes an issue.

The no fail system ha go. Students needs to learn from mistakes. They did to learn to be more critical and think for themselves. Teachers need to adapt to new ideas and not worry about losing face.

This is a big change required, we know it, Thailand may know it but to carry this through is no easy task.

I will not be holding my breath nor holding a wet finger to the wind.

[Soi Sauce]

Have worked. in universities for 9 years here. There is no hope for education here, and never will be.

[Bobsufc]

Our school put the pressure on the parents of several failing students (failed 8-9 subjects) to hold them back and not go up a grade. The parents simply withdrew the kids from the school went to another. Parents did not want to lose face.

[Bobsufc]

On the positive side we have had good students from my school (English Program) go to Australia and America and do very well in the schools they attended. While there spoken English was not the greatest at the start it improved dramatically and their written english and grammar impressed their teachers. They were ahead of their most of classmates in Maths and Physics. One of these kids made it into a middle level British university to do medicine the other is Doing Engineering at an Australian University. Unfortunately this is success despite the system. Often classes are disrupted by the students who can't cope because they should have repeated. This makes it difficult for the kids who want to work. They are dragged down by the system.

If kids new they would have to repeat the year if they failed they would try harder and pay more attention. Weak students would avoid harder subjects and be excluded from some schools. Now if you have money your kid will get through the system.

[hellodolly]

No article or editorial has yet to hit the nail on the head. The Thai Government does not want an educated population. Much easier to control the masses if they believe spirits caused Thai Air to skid off the runway, tourism grows higher every year no matter what, and Thailand actually has some sort of positive image abroad.

Educated population? Where are the public libraries? That in itself is proof that education is not and has never been a priority of past or present administrations. The same rituals learned in school that have no connection to knowledge needed in the real world in business, science or industry are given a greater priority and allotted time than important subject matters.

The same way that vendors of all sorts feel entitled to and have the right to use, occupy and invade public property and footpaths, Thailand, a hub for producing cheap, generic medicine that violates Intellectual Property, continues on its parochial path as they have for hundreds of years. This is a country of followers, copiers and drones. Anybody needs a DVD of the latest movie, a Louis Vuitton bag or Ray Ban sunglasses...? All that is available all over Thailand... not the originals, off course.

When ASEAN hits full force and Thais see that they have to be competitive in a communal environment, the cries and rallies to demand getting out of ASEAN will be the most visible consequence of the inability of Thais as a whole to be competitive, to adapt, to be innovative and to show critical thinking and initiative.

Thailand is like a beautiful lady resting on the laurels of her charm and appeal, begrudgingly accepting the gifts laid at he feet.

How many years a beautiful woman has to study in order to be beautiful? Beauty has nothing to do with personality, character or intelligence as we all know.

Education will continue dragging the country down, even deeper, because a quick fix (or a long term one) cannot be accepted by the mentality that have pervaded the country for eons: from the top members of the powers that be to the most humble citizen.

They are proudly Thais and nothing else matters. Their luck will run out when that pride will not get them any perks after the ASEAN community becomes a daily reality and they cannot fulfill the most basic requirements.

About This last point, lest someone think I am a basher I ask: why after so many decades of benefiting from the expertise and know-how of the automotive industry (Toyota, Honda, Isuzu, Ford, GMC, Mercedes, etc.) why this country cannot produce a national car, designed by Thais, built by Thais and bought by Thais? There was a feeble attempt to this and it lasted less than 2 years. Thai Ron, was the name and it vanished because Thais do not trust their own industrial products. I think they know something we do not.

I am not really up on what the other ASEAN countries are doing or not doing. Which one of them is producing their own car and what is the name of it. In the late part of 2015 when ASEAN is due to be fully in action will we be able to buy one with out paying import duty on them?

[yourauntbob]

Its not a lack of money, its a lack of oversight of that money. The government pays about 60-70k per month for foreign English teachers but the teacher only receives about half of that. I would speculate that the same thing happens with Thai teachers, books, supplies, building maintenance............

[boomerangutang]

excerpt:

In step three, i feel that the age requirement of the instructors should not be limited to a certain age. The experienced teacher is of age, not a backpacker Nor a not experienced native individual. Teaching is an art it is not something that one learns off the street. Teaching requires experience, patience, compassion, and understanding of the communication skills to develop the student's needs.

I agree with most of what you mentioned earlier, but re; the excerpt above, I have some observations:

In a perfect world, having an experienced, adept teacher is optimum. However, given the current dire situation in Thailand, I can see opening teaching opportunities up to native English speaking backpackers. Granted, not all such backpackers would necessarily make good teachers, but they'd likely be head and shoulders better than many of the non-native speakers currently on-hand, who are overly fixated on grammatical garbage. Retaining elder teachers, because they're experienced, can be a two-edged sword. Most of my teachers in farang lands (8 schools in 15 years) were old foggies who couldn't be put out to pasture because of strong teacher unions. I had few young energetic teachers, and I regret that.

[TomTao]

cogito ergo sum!

Could say that again in ingrish prease?

[Netizen]

Education or experience is not required to get a job in Thailand.

the requirements are

1. You must be good looking

2. You must be young

3. No experience is a plus

Thailand is all about appearance

The same applies for every country in the world.

Do you honestly believe this?

You can leave your hat on buddy [citing Joe Cocker]. Debates in this forum get rough and you can receive some hard shots.

Yes, I believe that. Many international companies have such hiring practices. Only lean and mean start-ups which badly need competent people are likely to value experience and proficiency over cheap and cheerful.

[yooper2001]

Education or experience is not required to get a job in Thailand.

the requirements are

1. You must be good looking

2. You must be young

3. No experience is a plus

Thailand is all about appearance

The same applies for every country in the world.

You should fly on Delta airline and look at the stewards and stewardess's or walk into any walmart store in America and you will find the greater portion of employees are older. Show to me any woman over 50 working in a office as a secretary in Thailand . They are more rare then a tiger in the wild

[Netizen]

Education or experience is not required to get a job in Thailand.

the requirements are

1. You must be good looking

2. You must be young

3. No experience is a plus

Thailand is all about appearance

The same applies for every country in the world.

You should fly on Delta airline and look at the stewards and stewardess's or walk into any walmart store in America and you will find the greater portion of employees are older. Show to me any woman over 50 working in a office as a secretary in Thailand . They are more rare then a tiger in the wild

That's because people's lives are at risk and airlines can't afford cheap and cheerful morons.

[Netizen]

It is very sad to watch this country that is considered to be a developing nation slowly slide backward on the developmental scale instead of slowly clawing forward toward being a developed country, the education system here is more like a feudal serf preparation factory than a place to prepare young people to face the world, thinking is not encouraged, critical or otherwise, questioning the status qou is often actively discouraged. On Friday I taught the conditional 'if' to M 1-3, for M 2 and 3 I taught for about fourty miniutes and the asked the students to write one sentence from each of the tenses, present simple, past simple and past perfect using the conditional 'if', the students already had examples in thier books and on the board from the lesson, I even gave them extra examples, nine out of every ten students just sat there with a vacant look on thier faces, the other one out of the ten got it immediately, I asked the teacher to tell them to think about what to write, the teacher said "they don't know how to think, they've never been taught to think.", and that to me is very sad.

Decline of literacy is a problem in the USA as well.

In USA young workers are taught not to think but to obey. They continually wait for their commander to command them even when the required action is evident. This is exacerbated by the presence of ex-military personnel amongst the management of USA companies.

The USA is hardly going forward in education and free thinking.

[Phuket electrician]

My experience of the Thai education system is that it is full of women over 50 years old.

[RubbaJohnny]

Has anyone detected EDUCATION hereabouts from the Latin e Ducare to lead out to allow yong minds to blossom.

I see plenty of the reverse,rote leaning,shabby photocopied texts regurgitated by folks who cheated unreal exams and have never had an oriinal notion above the waist.

A University Prof who fiddled his degree still in situ,Schools with their sanook nazi theme days ,,,,,,

Let's be honest its programmed child care for idiots .The rich send their offspring to foreign schools or countries

Edited September 23, 2013 by RubbaJohnny

[boomerangutang]

Education or experience is not required to get a job in Thailand.

the requirements are

1. You must be good looking

2. You must be young

3. No experience is a plus

Thailand is all about appearance

The same applies for every country in the world.

You should fly on Delta airline and look at the stewards and stewardess's or walk into any walmart store in America and you will find the greater portion of employees are older. Show to me any woman over 50 working in a office as a secretary in Thailand . They are more rare then a tiger in the wild

That's because people's lives are at risk and airlines can't afford cheap and cheerful morons.

That's cute, but the real reason is: Delta, like all US corp's have to pay obeisance to strong unions. Result: don't fire or lay anyone off, except for serious offenses. It's similar to Thailand, except Thais prefer to hire pretty young faces, and it's nearly impossible to get fired from a gov't job here. The worst that can happen is sent to inactive post with full pay and benefits.

[boomerangutang]

Decline of literacy is a problem in the USA as well.

In USA young workers are taught not to think but to obey. They continually wait for their commander to command them even when the required action is evident. This is exacerbated by the presence of ex-military personnel amongst the management of USA companies.

The USA is hardly going forward in education and free thinking.

There are flaws in the US system, fersure, but its Universities are still ranked top in the world. I got a kick when Malaysia's former strongman Mahatir would partake in his favorite pastime: verbally knocking down western institutions, yet concurrently, he sent his own kids off to US universities.

[MaxYakov]

cogito ergo sum!

Could say that again in ingrish prease?

I think therefore I am - https://translate.google.co.th/?hl=en&tab=wT#la/en/cogito%20ergo%20sum

Yeah, I know - you knew that.

Perhaps spiro ergo sum is more appropriate for Thais. You translate.

Edited September 26, 2013 by MaxYakov

[TomTao]

Thank you.

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