Can I apply for a work permit without any employer yet?

[scobie redux]

Work Permit.

The WP fee is 3,000 baht and then there is an admin charge of 100 baht.

If your papers are in order - YOU can go to a Labour office with your documents - you may have to wait for 2 - 5 hours. Then it is stamp stamp and you have your WP. OK sometimes it takes a couple of days.

Many "Lawyers" sell a service to get a Work Permit. They will charge 30, 40, 50, 70 - thousand baht.

Employers, will ask you for a silly sum, 10,000 baht or a LOT more. You will never see your Work Permit.

Thanks everyone. However, I dont think this is a scam because its an established international company and is known worldwide. They are very interested on employing me, as long as I can work with them legally. But they are asking for 30,000 baht for my work permit. perhaps there might be a lawyer involved.

I will go to Immigration myself, Apply for an extension of 60 days, and at the same time apply for my A non Immigrant visa based on marriage. Then I will work out my work permit, i will see how if I can apply it myself so I don't need to pay them that huge money. I will see what the Immigration will say on this matter.

You are simply refusing to listen to very good advice.

Here are a few facts:

1) An individual cannot apply for a work permit. A work permit is applied for by a company who wishes to employ a foreigner. That company has to meet certain conditions to have the right to employ foreigners.

2) The employer is responsible for applying for the work permit; ipso facto the employer is responsible for paying for the work permit. It is unheard of for the employer to ask for reimbursement.

3) The employer may be of international repute, but they are trying to get you to pay USD1000 for the privilege of working for them. Doesn't that seem a bit arse about face?

Avoid this like the plague. It is just wrong.

[scobie redux]

There is no marriage visa. You can apply for a non-o visa at a embassy or consulate based upon marriage to a Thai. You can also apply for an extension of stay based upon the same reason if you can meet the financial requirements but you would need a non-o visa first. I suggest you make a trip to a nearby embassy or consulate and get a single entry non-o visa. You can apply for and get a work permit with it when you have an employer.

If a farang has a marriage extension and enough money in bank and applies for a work permit, does that allow him/her to work without a employer?

Eg working at home teaching English or Computers to friends, family and neighbors?

No.

As has been said a dozen times on this thread and perhaps 10,000 times in TV history, an individual cannot apply for a work permit on their behalf.

[rct99q]

A bit off topic perhaps, but are you assuming that being married to a Thai provides you with additional advantages other than being married to another person?

of course.

if you're married to thai man, there certainly are advantages compared to women living in thailand being married to a foreigner. it's not very difficult to see why that is right ? it's normal, logic, totally understandable, etc. (not saying it's fair but life ain't fair, not here, not there). if rct99q doesn't see it that way then rct99q (still) doesn't understand thailand/life.

Well then Sticklies.......pray tell what are these so called advantages. Yes I know you will drone on about financials, blah, blah, blah...that gets to be a boring argument.

The OP was discussing work permit and visa issues. So please tell me how being a female married to a Thai male assists her in obtaining a work permit? Advantage or not.

[Soutpeel]

You are simply refusing to listen to very good advice.

2) The employer is responsible for applying for the work permit; ipso facto the employer is responsible for paying for the work permit. It is unheard of for the employer to ask for reimbursement.

3) The employer may be of international repute, but they are trying to get you to pay USD1000 for the privilege of working for them. Doesn't that seem a bit arse about face?

Although technically you are correct, there are many instances in Thailand, "english teachers" for example who are expected to pay for their own visa's and WP in Thailand, I agree with you its completely wrong, but a lot of time people put up with this becasue they are so desparate to live/work in Thailand and the employers know it

Personally, if my employer of 13 years in Thailand or other places I have worked requested I pay for my own visa or WP, becasue they wanted me to work for them, I would respectfully tell them to shove their job up their bottom.

In this particular instance I question, how reputable this company really is, as if really geniune, a reputable company wouldnt even make this request, certainly to the tune of $1000 for something which only costs a few thousand THB

[Mario2008]

There is no rule about who pays for the WP, it is a question of negotiation.

I believe you yourself are the applicant, not the employer. That is why the WP is yours to keep and not for the employer to keep.

[Cheapcharly]

I got a work permit in Thailand. I didn't paid one dim. Got it in 2 weeks.

They gave me an envelope that I had to carry to Thai embassy.

Next day I got work visa, gave back the envelope to employer. Few days later they gave me the work permit. Little blue book.

That s it....

[Soutpeel]

There is no rule about who pays for the WP, it is a question of negotiation.

I believe you yourself are the applicant, not the employer. That is why the WP is yours to keep and not for the employer to keep.

Although I understand what your saying, but the fact is without an employer sponsoring an applicant a WP cannot be applied for and of course the employer can also cancel a WP at any point in time, so therefore IMHO, a WP is very much the employers document, even though they say you can keep it.

As regards who pays, yes of course there is no rule, but it is customary for an employer to pick up the cost of employing a person with regard visa's WP and other official documentation, I can say personally after 25 + working in various countries were a work visa or permit of some kind was required, I never came across anyone who was required to pay for their own visa/WP etc to commence employment

To me Thailand seems very unique in that some employers want their employees to pay for their own WP and visa, I know personally I wouldnt entertain this request from an employer anywhere, it not my problem, they want to employ me so they should pick up the cost of any offical documentation required.

[Sceptict11]

Soutpeel

+1

[Cheapcharly]

They ask you to pay for the work permit, tell them to take money from your paid check and you will seen if they want to hire you or scam you.

[Maestro]

It is true that the work permit application must be signed by the applicant, ie the employee, even when the company handles the application and submits it to the Department of Employement (DoE), acting in the capacity of a messenger, so to speak.

After the useful discussion we’ve had so far I suggest that we now help the OP, miaarjhan, to apply for the work permit herself if she chooses to go this route.

Step 1: get together all documents necessary for submission with the application

This web page is a useful starting point. In some provinces, the requirements may be a little different. Check with the DoE in that province.

Step 2: fill out the form for the work permit application

Unfortunately, the link to the work permit forms on the website of the DoE is again dead, but I have this copy of the work permit application form I saved in 2009 (5.4MB). Get an original form from your local DoE.

Work permit form.pdf

[Sceptict11]

It is true that the work permit application must be signed by the applicant, ie the employee, even when the company handles the application and submits it to the Department of Employement (DoE), acting in the capacity of a messenger, so to speak.

After the useful discussion we’ve had so far I suggest that we now help the OP, miaarjhan, to apply for the work permit herself if she chooses to go this route.

Step 1: get together all documents necessary for submission with the application

This web page is a useful starting point. In some provinces, the requirements may be a little different. Check with the DoE in that province.

Step 2: fill out the form for the work permit application

Unfortunately, the link to the work permit forms on the website of the DoE is again dead, but I have this copy of the work permit application form I saved in 2009 (5.4MB). Get an original form from your local DoE.

Work permit form.pdf

The OP,miaarjhan , originally asked if it where possible to obtain a WP without having an identified employer.

Can a WP be obtained on such a basis ?

[wolf5370]

There is no marriage visa. You can apply for a non-o visa at a embassy or consulate based upon marriage to a Thai. You can also apply for an extension of stay based upon the same reason if you can meet the financial requirements but you would need a non-o visa first. I suggest you make a trip to a nearby embassy or consulate and get a single entry non-o visa. You can apply for and get a work permit with it when you have an employer.

If a farang has a marriage extension and enough money in bank and applies for a work permit, does that allow him/her to work without a employer?

Eg working at home teaching English or Computers to friends, family and neighbors?

No.

As has been said a dozen times on this thread and perhaps 10,000 times in TV history, an individual cannot apply for a work permit on their behalf.

Slightly off topic to the OP, but in direct response to the post here...

FYI: You are allowed to teach your own children - since 1997 (and I think it was given its own law in 2005 - give or take a year - have it written down somewhere). I believe it also covers up to 9 including friends - they are expected to be school age children though and no remuneration - and you must be teaching your own children along with them. This needs to be sanctioned by the Amphur though (home schooling), and does not require a WP - and the parent must have at least a high school diploma/M6 leaving cert with average GPA/etc (nothing high level, but to have at least finished secondary education). The up-to-9-kids bit is to recognise that parents may wish to share the burden - it is not intended to be a way of circumventing the teaching laws, or starting your own small school, and the Amphur would not look kindly on such an attempt I would guess - and neither would immigration. This is part of the home schooling legislation (original part of the Parent's Choice legislation 1997) and covers all parents' rights to teach their own children. It is regulated (need photos of the classroom, syllabus, timetable, teachers qualifications, random visits (although no one has ever turned up to mine), need registering on a child by child basis, etc). As a foreigner I would keep it to just your own kids rather than trying for the 9. No money to be had though - so not a scheme to get a WP or wages in country - just FYI for clarification. I home school (in my 4th year of doing so), on a marriage extension, I am under retirement age - I do not work here at all (income comes from abroad) and have never needed a WP. This will not help the OP in his search though.

[Maestro]

The OP,miaarjhan , originally asked if it where possible to obtain a WP without having an identified employer.

Can a WP be obtained on such a basis ?

Without an identified employer, no work permit can be applied for. Starting with post #3, the OP turned this topic to the question whether she can apply for the work permit herself with an identified employer, an established international company which has asked her for 30'000 Baht to do the application for her and which is very interested in employing her (post #22)

[Sceptict11]

The OP,miaarjhan , originally asked if it where possible to obtain a WP without having an identified employer.

Can a WP be obtained on such a basis ?

Without an identified employer, no work permit can be applied for. Starting with post #3, the OP turned this topic to the question whether she can apply for the work permit herself with an identified employer, an established international company which has asked her for 30'000 Baht to do the application for her and which is very interested in employing her (post #22)

Thanks

I missed that although I do now recall reading the point.

However, unless the prospective employer was co-operative in supplying the necessary documentation would a self application be doomed to failure ?

[Satcommlee]

It's easy to get a work permit in Thailand if you are willing to splash the cash around..

Lot's of contractors umbrella companies and dubious language schools will offer these services.

But you only need a work permit, IF you get a job!

There is no such thing as a freelancer work permit, you absolutely need a Thai Entity to support your application.

[digitalchromakey]

It is true that the work permit application must be signed by the applicant, ie the employee, even when the company handles the application and submits it to the Department of Employement (DoE), acting in the capacity of a messenger, so to speak.

After the useful discussion we’ve had so far I suggest that we now help the OP, miaarjhan, to apply for the work permit herself if she chooses to go this route.

Step 1: get together all documents necessary for submission with the application

This web page is a useful starting point. In some provinces, the requirements may be a little different. Check with the DoE in that province.

Step 2: fill out the form for the work permit application

Unfortunately, the link to the work permit forms on the website of the DoE is again dead, but I have this copy of the work permit application form I saved in 2009 (5.4MB). Get an original form from your local DoE.

Work permit form.pdf

This form is now ตท.1 (TT1/WP1)

Form_tt1.pdf

If you read section 3.6 - page 5 para 2 of ตท.1 (TT1/WP1), it appears one can apply without an employer if suitably qualified, but I know of no one who has successfuly achieved this to date.

Here is a working link to the current DOE download page (in Thai but pretty self evident):

http://wp.doe.go.th/joomla_wp/index.php/2013-07-25-03-44-08

Edited September 28, 2013 by digitalchromakey

[Maestro]

...unless the prospective employer was co-operative in supplying the necessary documentation would a self application be doomed to failure ?

Yes, of course.

[Maestro]

Here is a working link to the current DOE download page (in Thai but pretty self evident):

http://wp.doe.go.th/joomla_wp/index.php/2013-07-25-03-44-08

Thank you very much, digitalchromakey. I'll go now and change the link in my list.

[Maestro]

For anybody wondering what the reference to "Section 9" is in the application form WP.1, it is the Alien Working Act B.E. 2551 (2008), useful reading for anybody taking employment in Thailand.

[Maestro]

...But you only need a work permit, IF you get a job!...

What comes first, the work permit application or the employment contract?

The logical sequence would appear to be as follows:

1. Work permit application, with all required documents, including the Form of Employment Certification signed by the prospective employer.
2. Approval of work permit application.
3. Employment contract.

[Satcommlee]

...But you only need a work permit, IF you get a job!...

What comes first, the work permit application or the employment contract?

The logical sequence would appear to be as follows:

1. Work permit application, with all required documents, including the Form of Employment Certification signed by the prospective employer.
2. Approval of work permit application.
3. Employment contract.

In my own personal experience, I needed an official written job offer with salary terms etc.. before I applied for the work permit.

[Sceptict11]

...But you only need a work permit, IF you get a job!...

What comes first, the work permit application or the employment contract?

The logical sequence would appear to be as follows:

1. Work permit application, with all required documents, including the Form of Employment Certification signed by the prospective employer.
2. Approval of work permit application.
3. Employment contract.

What about

1 Job offer with known contractual obligations (employer and employee) subject to

2. Approval (with the employers assistance) of a WP

3 . Job (employment) contract referenced to 1

??

[Maestro]

In my own personal experience, I needed an official written job offer with salary terms etc.. before I applied for the work permit.

In your case, did the official written job offer with salary terms take the place of the Form of Employment Certification or, since you mention "official", was in in fact this form?

[scorecard]

...unless the prospective employer was co-operative in supplying the necessary documentation would a self application be doomed to failure ?

Yes, of course.

Agree.

Another slant; would you want to work for an employer who says 'come and work for me, but I refuse to give you any of the documents needed to get

a work permit'?

This scenario would flag to me several possibilities that would concerns me strongly:

1. It would seem to indicate that the employer has no concern for the law and has no concern for the situations which the employee could be landed in if there was a WP inspection. I.e. immigration jail and deportation and if the employee was married to a Thai national and had children then this should be a very serious concern.

2. The employer has powerful connections which could easily kill the possible consequences of a WP inspection. Do you want to work for / with people like this?

3. The employer possibly has low business ethics to the point of ignoring laws and possibly correct taxes, etc.

4. Another angle, is this 'company' / 'business name' actually registered or is there just a sign outside and business documents which carry a business name but have no basis whatever at law. If this is true (and it's common) then any contract of employment (if there is one) may in fact be invalid therefore unenforceable. Do you really want to work with people like this.

It could also be a reason why the employer doesn't want to give copies of the 'company documents' required to support the WP application. I know that the Labor Dept., officers do check such things when they process WP applications, and in fact they can check online in a couple of minutes.

5. The employer could possibly use the 'no WP' fact against you the employee. E.g. You have done nothing wrong / you have properly and in a timely manner completed all your duties, you get dismissed and the employer says NO to any severance monies.

Would you try to fight such an employer, eventually in the Thai Labor Court? Probably no, because you would amongst other things reveal the fact that you had been working without a WP. As in any country you cannot claim 'but I didn't know I needed a WP'. If point 2. above is true, then there's also the possibility the 'powerful connection could 'appear' to frighten you.

5.a. Fighting such an employer could be quite dangerous in terms of personal / family harassment, violence etc.

Edited September 29, 2013 by scorecard

[scorecard]

...But you only need a work permit, IF you get a job!...

What comes first, the work permit application or the employment contract?

The logical sequence would appear to be as follows:

1. Work permit application, with all required documents, including the Form of Employment Certification signed by the prospective employer.
2. Approval of work permit application.
3. Employment contract.

What about

1 Job offer with known contractual obligations (employer and employee) subject to

2. Approval (with the employers assistance) of a WP

3 . Job (employment) contract referenced to 1

??

My WP application / annual renewal applications have always been supported by a contract of employment, signed by both parties, but including a specific clause like :

'Subject to the approval and issue of an appropriate Work Permit by the Thai Labor Dept.'

Or something very similar.

Edited September 29, 2013 by scorecard