Any Americans in Thailand giving up US citizenship ?

[SeabagsFull]

I love living in Thailand, with my lovely Thai wife, but I am American to the core. It's not some nationalistic BS with me, I just love my country and all that it has done for me. I don't like the current tilt toward fascism that's been shaping up since the Reagan Era. Creation of "Homeland Security" was the worst thing to happen in govt. in many years.

Despite all of the Tea party right wing know nothing dickheads, there's still much to love about the USA. To give up American citizenship, especially for a thin reason like taxation, whoever does that is a moral coward, who never deserved to be a citizen in the first place.

That ragged blue passport with the eagle on it is my proudest possession, even though I don't actually "own" it. There are many fine countries in the world, and I've been fortunate to see a lot of them, but no amount of money could cause me to swap out my American citizenship.

Frank James, I like & agree with everything you wrote in post #36 except ... your use of the word "dickheads." While your arguments are sound, you immediately lose credibility when you began the name calling & labeling. I was taught in a college debate course that you use this emotional tactic when you've run out of believable & concrete arguments, which is why the GOP looks so silly 99% of the time.

Though we have so many problems in the U.S., there are just too many benefits to keeping citizenship, not to mention all the memories (for most citizens) associated with growing up & getting started in life. Like you, I would never give it up.

[SeabagsFull]

Thing that does anger me is that medicare does not cover US citizens living abroad, though government is still happy to take our money. Paying taxes is part of being a citizen. Somebody has to pay for these wars we seem to enjoy participating in!

Emdog post #60. Miltary retirees living anywhere in the world age 65 & up enrolled in Medicare Parts A & B are entitled to Tricare For Life, a medical coverage program with no enrollment fees.

Some hospitals in Thailand will honor this coverage up front (e.g., Aek Udon (I believe) & Panyavejinter in Udon Thani, Bumrungrad in Bangkok, to name a few); the rest, you must submit the proper forms for reimbursement.

One of the cool aspects about this program is that nearly every cost for every procedure done in a Thailand hospital falls below established Tricare limits, meaning that you won't have to worry about Tricare refusing a portion of the bill. There are copayments, but the new healthcare law ended all lifetime caps.

[SeabagsFull]

Please confirm $50,000 as the amount to stay under.

I've been told it's $10,000 in the bank sends a report to IRS.

Iamsobad #78, there are three separate issues going on here.

1. American law requires all financial institutions under U.S. jurisdiction to report any & all transactions of $10K or more to the Department of Treasury.

2. U.S. Public Law 91-508 tries to address U.S. citizens banking in non-U.S. jurisdictional places (i.e., other countries) by requiring everyone to file TD F 90-22.1, Report of Foreign Bank & Financial Accounts, when the total amount of all foreign assets reaches $10K or more. Obviously, this requirement is directed toward U.S. citizens & has no weight on foreign governments.

3. Because some governments do not require their banks to cooperate with U.S. inquiries, a U.S. citizen can break the law & not report his/her savings when banking in one of these tax havens. FATCA was introduced to try to encourage such banks to aid U.S. investigations of its citizens that might be breaking the law.

Note that simply having &/or reporting possession of a large amount of money does not in-&-of-itself incur a tax liability. Taxes are levied on profits, interest, etc. In 2010, I filed TD F 90-22.1 showing over $100K in Thai banks. Since most of this was from the sale of a house & none of it was from interest, dividends, etc. (it was my own deposited money), I paid $0 taxes on this.

[Naam]

It also is noteworthy how many foreigners are trying hard to get residency in the US, which is the best place on earth to live even though not perfect. What place is?

if you ask Mrs Naam she will shout "The U.S. of A.!!!"

if you ask me my answer is "uhm... err... ah reckon... the U.S. of A."

[Naam]

It does amaze me how people who know almost nothing of the US and who have never even been there have such firm opinions about it.

It also is noteworthy how many foreigners are trying hard to get residency in the US, which is the best place on earth to live

I guess the biggest contributing factor to the global urge to live in America and amongst Americans is the aura of humility that surrounds almost every American (I dont think I'm exaggerating when I say most non-Americans are fully aware of this).

Actually, as Naam said about his 15 years of living in the US as a German, he found his neighbors to be very friendly and helpful compare to almost any other country. I have always found the same.

Truthfully, there is so much US bashing on this forum, that it just creates a different behavior in me than I've ever had anywhere else. So yes, I don't exude an aura of humility about the US on this forum. I get defensive.

I'm not myself in that regard, but only on this forum. But I contend that especially Brits who are now from a country which is totally irrelevant in this world ask for it.

So there.

one has to differentiate NeverSure. there is no doubt U.S. bashing exists, not only in this forum but in many places by many people of this planet.

but not the country or its citizens are the targets of the bashing; its certain policies and actions of various U.S. governments (implemented with utter arrogance) which are bashed.

[kikoman]

There is nothing wrong with the United States in my mind, All people can live the American dream and it can come true!

What is wrong with the US is the immigrants it attracts, who after being in the country less than 250 years, appoint themselves the "chosen ones" the only real Americans, and demand that no other immigrants that do not look like them be allowed to immigrate to the country. Now with the prediction that the US will have a Minority/majority population in 2050,

The Southwestern states of the US of California, New Mexico, Texas (along with Hawaii) as we speak are already minority/majority where the population that is viewed as a Minority have now become the majority population in those states, with Arizona soon to follow. That is why all the crazy's are putting up a fight aimed at keeping Arizona from becoming a minority/majority state as witnessed in the national news, which are very similar to the reaction in the U.S. South at the time of the end of Segregation of the 1960's and the end of Apartheid in South Africa.

The United States is a great country and the recent election of its first Black President show the strength of the "minority" voters, teamed with moderate and Liberal Anglo Americans.

God Bless America!

Cheers:

Edited October 3, 2013 by kikoman

[Cheapcharly]

USA was a good country. Now it's a s...t hole but you realize it only if you have lived in free countries like Switzerland , Norway, Australia, Canada....

Why? Because these countries don't give s..t where you are, what business you do, if you pay your tax, how many days you reside out....

This is what I call freedom. And USA is not a free country.

Fact: before you open an account, you must sign you are not a us citizen, and/or you don't reside in USA more than x days in the last 5years....

If you have ties in the USA, you will not be able to open an account in any foreign countries.

So tell me why Tina Turner ditched her passport in January 2013 if USA are soooooooo great.? And why so many us guys have relinquished their passport for Sweden, Norway, Switzerland, Australia, new Zealand, Canada, Hongkong...?

[kblaze]

Fact: Cheapcharly is a troll.

[Naam]

USA was a good country. Now it's a s...t hole but you realize it only if you have lived in free countries like Switzerland , Norway, Australia, Canada....

Why? Because these countries don't give s..t where you are, what business you do, if you pay your tax, how many days you reside out...

these countries give a sh*t whether you pay taxes?

Edited October 3, 2013 by Naam

[Cheapcharly]

Not at all. You just need to tell them you are leaving the country . Once you left there is no law to be taxed as you are not resident of your country. And it s totally legal.

Concept which is out of mind for a US person( due to consistent brainwashing since childhood ) as a USA person need to report his worldwide income.

In practical terms, perpetual travellers (PTs) are people who live in such a way that they are not considered a legal resident of any of the countries in which they spend time.

By lacking a legal permanent residence status, they seek to avoid the legal obligations which may accompany residency, such as income and asset taxes, social security contributions, jury duty and military service.

For example, while PTs may hold citizenship in one or more countries that impose taxes based solely on residency, their legal residence will most likely be in a tax haven. PTs may spend the majority of their time in other countries, never staying long enough to be considered a resident.

Now, who is the troll?

[JLCrab]

Here's a link to the Wikipedia article so as one can read the rest of the 'perpetual traveler' article other than the 3 paragraphs that were copied and pasted without attribution.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_traveler

[Forethat]

Actually, the second I realised that your entire argument was built on a couple of news articles, the idea of using the cheesy emoticon crossed my mind as well, but I decided to refrain from making fun of you.

Actually there are three articles about this on this thread. The third one was posted by Naam in post #165. You should read if it you haven't yet.

Either you're calling the reporters liars, or the interviewees liars, gossips, rumour mongers etc, or you're just refusing to accept it until a bank issues a PR statement about it, which is a bit like refusing to accept that a 7-11 has closed up until you see a 'closed' sign even though there are no lights on inside and the shelves are bare, because an internal message was already sent from head office to the owner of the 7-11 that the branch had to go (I am alluding to manarak's post #160).

Which one do you think has the greater effect on the day-to-day running and actions of staff in a bank - and therefore the customer - the internal policy or the (absence of a) PR statement?

There are none so blind as those who will not see.

Self-edited for off topic remarks.

Perhaps I've learned to validate information differently; in my opinion, news articles are as valid as graffiti. If your opinion is based on what youve picked up in news articles I feel for you (and anyone else with a similar belief).

I have yet to see ONE institution issue an official statement in which they reject account applicants based on nationality. I want to point out that I'm not saying that it doesn't exist, Im asking because I have yet to see one, but the posters on here certainly doesn't contribute with anything substantial in that area other than a couple of quotes by squabbling bankers getting emotionally overloaded. I should add that I do have a couple of additional reasons to believe that such statement is unlikely to be issued; I currently work for a couple of major players on the market, though some of them in jurisdictions where IGAs are already in place and enforced, cases in which I can see at least half of dozen conflicting legal matters being raised in case the aforementioned statement would be issued.

The issue is NOT nationality. The issue is US tax legislation and the friction it causes with institutions in jurisdictions where privacy acts protects the customer in the opposite direction, something that applies to ANY nationality residing in US.

[slipperylobster]

Been in usa recently and felt miserable. Same as thai people. They don't like the usa, food is poor, culture Is weak and most usa people are clueless. Seem their brain is not really working at 100%. They accept anything we throw at them. Amazing to see at what point they have been brainwashed by materialism and capitalist endoctrinments. Have you tried to speak to them? Very hard to communicate.... It s all "dude, cool, awesome, yeah, duh!" I don't know but I feel better in thailand than being a poor soul in the usa. Walmart and shopping mall just suck.... And where are the good paid US jobs? In China or what? In usa you are nobody, in thailand, you are somebody! http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com

While you do sound like an extremely knowledgeable expert on all things USA, I must say I disagree with your statements on the country

You are so "out of touch" with reality.. I suspect some penis envy is involved with your views.

[slipperylobster]

USA was a good country. Now it's a s...t hole but you realize it only if you have lived in free countries like Switzerland , Norway, Australia, Canada....

Why? Because these countries don't give s..t where you are, what business you do, if you pay your tax, how many days you reside out....

This is what I call freedom. And USA is not a free country.

Fact: before you open an account, you must sign you are not a us citizen, and/or you don't reside in USA more than x days in the last 5years....

If you have ties in the USA, you will not be able to open an account in any foreign countries.

So tell me why Tina Turner ditched her passport in January 2013 if USA are soooooooo great.? And why so many us guys have relinquished their passport for Sweden, Norway, Switzerland, Australia, new Zealand, Canada, Hongkong...?

You sound foolish....

[Forethat]

I love living in Thailand, with my lovely Thai wife, but I am American to the core. It's not some nationalistic BS with me, I just love my country and all that it has done for me. I don't like the current tilt toward fascism that's been shaping up since the Reagan Era. Creation of "Homeland Security" was the worst thing to happen in govt. in many years.

Despite all of the Tea party right wing know nothing dickheads, there's still much to love about the USA. To give up American citizenship, especially for a thin reason like taxation, whoever does that is a moral coward, who never deserved to be a citizen in the first place.

That ragged blue passport with the eagle on it is my proudest possession, even though I don't actually "own" it. There are many fine countries in the world, and I've been fortunate to see a lot of them, but no amount of money could cause me to swap out my American citizenship.

I totally missed this post.

Deserves a bump if you ask me.

[slipperylobster]

My bank told me it s not their business to make tax for USA citizen.

The guy told me it s not fair to accuse banks to hide money.

He told me for this reason they don't want USA person any more as customers and they can take their money and go away.

Thanks to fatca!

He added, one time lot of people wanted go to USA and now people want leave the USA.

With this government shutdown and the 17 debt, it's clear the USA is on the path to fail. One day any USA person will have to carry a tattoo with their ssn number on their forearm. And all expat will be required to come back to the USA a least every 6 months in case there is a warrant against them. If not, they will be wanted worldwide for tax evasion.

(criminals will not comply with fbar, so next step is to against the person physically )

This country is turning very bad . what I see coming is the confiscation of your wealth in the name of the patriotism act before a total USA bankrupt. Your money in your bank will be simply wiped out. They will take 50% of your retirement saving and from any current or saving account. Then you will see mobilization with gas, then gun and real bullets like Greece. nobody will bail you out, because nobody like the USA really due to prism and other craps you made us endure(2008 crisis) ,.. . You will be on your own. So guys you are deeply screwed if you fail.

It s really a shame for all of you but it s time to ditch your blue passport before your government eat you alive. Get a Thai one.

I have no idea what your angle here is.... but the majority of people in the USA still believe in patriotism and national unity. Your absurd allegations on monetary reward have no place in that realm. Patriots...from no matter what country...do not sell out. Selfish fools who think they can line their pockets and forsake their heritage, family and homeland are despicable. Have a nice life.

[manarak]

So tell me why Tina Turner ditched her passport in January 2013 if USA are soooooooo great.? And why so many us guys have relinquished their passport for Sweden, Norway, Switzerland, Australia, new Zealand, Canada, Hongkong...?

Tina Turner... is a neighbor.

I wasn't impressed at all by the talents of her Thai cook.

[NewlyMintedThai]

Tina ditched it because she doesn't need it anymore. She married a Swiss guy and lives full-time in Switzerland.

[JLCrab]

Tina ditched it because she doesn't need it anymore. She married a Swiss guy and lives full-time in Switzerland.

OK I'll add: Tina Turner was never a songwriter who gets royalties -- all her big hits were written by others who get the royalties. She no longer tours and hasn't for years in the US. She gets little if any current income in the US. If the bulk of her investments and current income from those investments is outside the US (maybe liquor ads in Japan) then she would be taxed on that ex-USA income if she remained a US citizen.

[Cheapcharly]

With a 17t of debt, if I was a us citizen... I would Keep it shut.

The end.

[Forethat]

With a 17t of debt, if I was a us citizen... I would Keep it shut.

The end.

Or...they can do what they've done for the past 20 years - Print More Money!

[JLCrab]

In addition to its nearly $17 trillion in debt the US Federal Government also owns:

Oil and gas resources on and offshore worth $128 trillion, roughly eight times the national debt of the country

Mineral rights, on and offshore, covering 2.515 billion acres of land, more than the total surface land in Canada

http://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/?p=15346

and about 900,000 separate pieces of real estate both buildings and land.

Edited October 3, 2013 by JLCrab

[Cheapcharly]

Yeah easy to be a proud us citizen when they steal the world....

Suckers !

[JLCrab]

Well if we stole the world then I guess you are the suckers.

BTW instead of Tina turner (net worth about $200 million) who gave up her US citizenship how about Rupert Murdoch (net worth $13+ billion) who became a naturalized US citizen in 1985.

Edited October 3, 2013 by JLCrab

[watcharacters]

Not at all. You just need to tell them you are leaving the country . Once you left there is no law to be taxed as you are not resident of your country. And it s totally legal.

Concept which is out of mind for a US person( due to consistent brainwashing since childhood ) as a USA person need to report his worldwide income.

In practical terms, perpetual travellers (PTs) are people who live in such a way that they are not considered a legal resident of any of the countries in which they spend time.

By lacking a legal permanent residence status, they seek to avoid the legal obligations which may accompany residency, such as income and asset taxes, social security contributions, jury duty and military service.

For example, while PTs may hold citizenship in one or more countries that impose taxes based solely on residency, their legal residence will most likely be in a tax haven. PTs may spend the majority of their time in other countries, never staying long enough to be considered a resident.

Now, who is the troll?

.

Sorry.

Kind of overlooked this while quoting.

CHARLIE,

You're so full of hot air I wonder how your feet even manage to touch the ground.

[Cheapcharly]

Well just gave up my us citizenship.... I wanted to tell you but you are all so brainwashed...

Now I M a free man. Not a Sucker any more.

Really this USA thing is so horrible. Have you see the number of paperwork I had to fill. Money spent in expert. And risk to loose all through lawyers, court orders,...

Now I can keep the money and live my dream life.

If you like so much these USA, what the hell are you doing in Thailand? . Go back where you come from..... Jeez,!

Murdock pay practically no tax... All his cash is in caiman island. But you need at least 50millions$ to open a society there.

Edited October 3, 2013 by Cheapcharly

[JLCrab]

If you still have current income in the USA then it does not make any difference whether you are an American citizen or not -- you will still pay US taxes on that income.

When I used to live in Florida and there were so many tourists from Brazil I would comment: They're here to visit their money. I live my 'dream life' here in Thailand and go back t USA every once while to do the same as the Brazilians.

BTW 2 daily non-stops on TAM from Sao Paolo to Orlando

[NeverSure]

Well just gave up my us citizenship.... I wanted to tell you but you are all so brainwashed... Now I M a free man. Not a Sucker any more. Really this USA thing is so horrible. Have you see the number of paperwork I had to fill. Money spent in expert. And risk to loose all through lawyers, court orders,... Now I can keep the money and live my dream life. If you like so much these USA, what the hell are you doing in Thailand? . Go back where you come from..... Jeez,! Murdock pay practically no tax... All his cash is in caiman island. But you need at least 50millions$ to open a society there.

Hot air balloon.

Either you are not a natural born US citizen, or you failed kindergarten four times in a row. Your writing is unlike anything I've ever seen before from any American, and leaves me in disbelief that even English could be your first language.

So, you worked your butt off, got lucky, and got US citizenship? Then you renounced it?

So what citizenship did you adopt, or did you have dual citizenship from your birth country?

I don't want to say you're full of shit, but I can think it.

[pomchop]

Well just gave up my us citizenship.... I wanted to tell you but you are all so brainwashed... Now I M a free man. Not a Sucker any more. Really this USA thing is so horrible. Have you see the number of paperwork I had to fill. Money spent in expert. And risk to loose all through lawyers, court orders,... Now I can keep the money and live my dream life. If you like so much these USA, what the hell are you doing in Thailand? . Go back where you come from..... Jeez,! Murdock pay practically no tax... All his cash is in caiman island. But you need at least 50millions$ to open a society there.

On behalf of all Americans thank you for giving up your citizenship.

[JLCrab]

As spoken by Diane Keaton in the movie 'Baby Boom':

"I just think the rat race is gonna have to survive with one less rat."