bread maker

[triffid]

I'm considering buying one of these, and would apprecate any comments - obviously those based on actual experience and vis a vis what breads I like would be the most useful. I'm not too concerned about the price. But what I like is chewy, heavy (au levain) breads with a crust - ideally sourdough and with varying amounts of rye. It'll just be me consuming so I don't need lots. My motive is to be able to get it freshly 'baked' and perhaps as good or better than what I can find here in Chiangmai. My main queries are: can bread made in these machines ever be as good as the properly baked stuff from a bakery, secondly would I be able to get the right ingredients and finally is it going to be too much of a learning and fidgety process?

Look forward to comments....

[kikoman]

You can make great bread in a bread machine, I have used my last one for a couple of years, I stop using it for baking the bread, I only used the dough cycle and then baked in my stove oven. Most bread makers have a crust setting that you can set the type of crust you want, I have never made sourdough or rye bread but I see no reason why it can not be made.

It was a great investment for me well worth having, I have since made my bread all by hand now, my wife still uses it to make sweet bread dough.

Cheers:

[Bcgardener]

I just brought one back from my last trip to Australia. I have never baked a loaf of bread in my life. Went to Makro and bought bread flour and yeast, followed the instructions and presto a great loaf of bread with a lovely crust. This was just white bread but my machine also has recipes for sour dough and many others. Also can load in extras like seeds or olives etc into a small compartment and I will add them at the right time. I am a convert. Interesting tip in my recipe book, if you crush a vitamin c tablet in the mix the bread will keep longer.

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[Tim207]

I stop using it for baking the bread, I only used the dough cycle and then baked in my stove oven.

I will second that. I use my bread maker for mixing and kneading only.

[sutton1001]

Best thing I think I have bought here! Bought mine from Robinson's 3000 baht use it three to four times a week awesome. Had a few botched loaves at first but now I have it of to a fine art.... But I will post this picture of last nights loaf I forgot yeast! Doh!

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[billd766]

I bought mine over 4 years ago in Enn Zedd and have used it most weeks.

I gave up making bread as there was only me eating it so now I use it to knead the flour etc to make 8 rolls at a time.

Cut the dough up into 8 pieces, let them rise for about 30 minutes and bung them in the oven.

Bung them in the freezer and use what I need when I need them.

I just pull them out about an hour before use them.

You can use the same method to make long rolls or baguettes etc.

About 10 minutes of preperation, 1 1/2 hours in the bread maker, 20 to 30 minutes depending on your oven and hot fresh tasy rolls.

[canman]

Bread machines work fine once you work out the correct amount of moisture to use for your local conditions. If you have an oven you should give the following recipe a try. It's almost fool proof and willl give you a loaf better than any bread maker. Professional bakers use a steam oven which gives you that beautiful crusty bread. This method dublicates that process by baking a very wet dough and cooking in inside a covered pot. Best thing is no kneading required. The yeast combined with the long proving will align all the glutens for you. You can add in cheese, olives, rosmary, bacon, chillies etc to make a differant flavoured bread. Add the extra ingredients to the flour before you add the water.

3 cups all-purpose or bread flour, more for dusting
¼ teaspoon instant yeast
1¼ teaspoons salt
Cornmeal or wheat bran as needed.

1. In a large bowl combine flour, yeast and salt. Add 1 5/8 cups water, and stir until blended; dough will be shaggy and sticky. Cover bowl with plastic wrap. Let dough rest at least 12 hours, preferably about 18, at warm room temperature, about 70 degrees.

2. Dough is ready when its surface is dotted with bubbles. Lightly flour a work surface and place dough on it; sprinkle it with a little more flour and fold it over on itself once or twice. Cover loosely with plastic wrap and let rest about 15 minutes.

3. Using just enough flour to keep dough from sticking to work surface or to your fingers, gently and quickly shape dough into a ball. Generously coat a cotton towel (not terry cloth) with flour, wheat bran or cornmeal; put dough seam side down on towel and dust with more flour, bran or cornmeal. Cover with another cotton towel and let rise for about 2 hours. When it is ready, dough will be more than double in size and will not readily spring back when poked with a finger.

4. At least a half-hour before dough is ready, heat oven to 450 degrees. Put a 6- to 8-quart heavy covered pot (cast iron, enamel, Pyrex or ceramic) in oven as it heats. When dough is ready, carefully remove pot from oven. Slide your hand under towel and turn dough over into pot, seam side up; it may look like a mess, but that is O.K. Shake pan once or twice if dough is unevenly distributed; it will straighten out as it bakes. Cover with lid and bake 30 minutes, then remove lid and bake another 15 to 30 minutes, until loaf is beautifully browned. Cool on a rack.

Yield: One 1½-pound loaf.

[triffid]

Thank you gentlemen.

Comments seem mixed on what a bread-maker adds for someone who has an oven; some imply nothing, some chiefly the pre-baking help; and some assert it makes great bread on its own. While I'm glad to learn of all this, I suppose I'm most curious in the last - though I do have an oven - and was wondering if the machine's bread will stand comparison with the bread made or finished in the oven, or even with the run-of-the-mill bread sold in the good bakeries/supermarkets/hotels in this country. (As I said previously I like the heavy, chewy, sourdough type).

If I do buy a bread maker is there much difference n the quality of the bread produced between a more expensive and the less expensive, or is it a matter of bells ad whistles (which is of no use to me) on the pricier ones?

[harrry]

Thank you gentlemen.

Comments seem mixed on what a bread-maker adds for someone who has an oven; some imply nothing, some chiefly the pre-baking help; and some assert it makes great bread on its own. While I'm glad to learn of all this, I suppose I'm most curious in the last - though I do have an oven - and was wondering if the machine's bread will stand comparison with the bread made or finished in the oven, or even with the run-of-the-mill bread sold in the good bakeries/supermarkets/hotels in this country. (As I said previously I like the heavy, chewy, sourdough type).

If I do buy a bread maker is there much difference n the quality of the bread produced between a more expensive and the less expensive, or is it a matter of bells ad whistles (which is of no use to me) on the pricier ones?

I use a fagor. with the right flour it makes beautiful bread but you may have to adjust the water for the particular flour you use. THis is easily done watch the dough spinning in the first mix and if there is any flour remaining half way through the first mix add more water until the dough spins freely.

[Cuban]

...some imply nothing, some chiefly the pre-baking help; and some assert it makes great bread on its own.

.....was wondering if the machine's bread will stand comparison with the bread made or finished in the oven, or even with the run-of-the-mill bread sold in the good bakeries/supermarkets/hotels in this country. (As I said previously I like the heavy, chewy, sourdough type).

Making bread is an artisan skill that requires practice to achieve the results that you are satisfied with.

So what you might consider is "good" about factory made bread that is created by the Chorleywood Process many find plastic and artificial. (A marketing scam to make the loaf look big but use the minimum weight legally required, probably not enacted within Thailand's rice based culture but adopted from European bread production techniques.)

Personally I use a BM and by using a mixture of strong and plain flour I get the right bread for my tastes, I also add oil in the final 30 minutes of cook time to crisp up the crust. I had a local expat ask me if I would make bread for him and I flatly refused - I do this for my pleasure not money and the price I would have to charge is beyond the expected budget of most. There is a guy that does/did a bread round somewhere around Na Dun District who is a bit of a joke I hear, wonder if he is a reader?

Others will use the BM to mix and knead the dough probably for time saving or bad joint issues, to be considered.

Sourdoughs take time to develop and will be unique to the airborne yeasts in your area.

The best thing to do is keep a diary about amounts and the process you use to refine the bread you make - it's how recipe books started.

When I have dough rising (hand kneaded for the pizza oven) my wife will sniff it and ask "...good or throw out?"

[jcgodber]

I have been using my bread maker for about 5 years and works just great. I have found the most important thing is measure VERY carefully, I use a digital scale.

I used to make sourdough breads and had great success but it take a little practice and (google the way to do it).

I also use my bread machine for making dough for pizza this works just great

you can get your flour, whole wheat and rye and others at most Top's markets

[seabear]

Got a Kenwood at Central.

Just for fun.

Tried 10 times.

Bread eatable, but not good enough

No fun.

End of story.

[billd766]

I have been using my bread maker for about 5 years and works just great. I have found the most important thing is measure VERY carefully, I use a digital scale.

I used to make sourdough breads and had great success but it take a little practice and (google the way to do it).

I also use my bread machine for making dough for pizza this works just great

you can get your flour, whole wheat and rye and others at most Top's markets

A lot of people like me for example live out in rural Thailand and don't get access to to Tops etc so I make do with what I can get at BigC or Makro etc at Khampaeng Phet as that is only 65 km away rather than the nearest Tops at Phitsanulok 180 km away.

[ezzra]

Bread baking is a lot of fun, however, if you're a bread lover, be prepared to put on

a considerable weight gorging on those loaves, this is the price you pay for having

freshly baked bread at your disposal...lol

[harrry]

I have been using my bread maker for about 5 years and works just great. I have found the most important thing is measure VERY carefully, I use a digital scale.

I used to make sourdough breads and had great success but it take a little practice and (google the way to do it).

I also use my bread machine for making dough for pizza this works just great

you can get your flour, whole wheat and rye and others at most Top's markets

A lot of people like me for example live out in rural Thailand and don't get access to to Tops etc so I make do with what I can get at BigC or Makro etc at Khampaeng Phet as that is only 65 km away rather than the nearest Tops at Phitsanulok 180 km away.

But as flour keeps reasonably well it is not unreasonable to stock up with the one you like when you go further afield.

[jaiyenyen]

I would suggest that if you have an oven, you would be better off spending your breadmaker money on buying a decent mixer with dough hooks. I have an oven, and a breadmaker. I find it much easier, and as quick to make bread in the oven.

I must add that I'm also fortunate in that I have a Kenwood Chef food mixer to knead the dough for me. I got my 80yr old mum to bring it over last year, Bless her, she's a darlin'.

Here's the recipie I use. It has never let me down.

600gms White Bread Flour

7gms Instant yeast (I use Perfect Brand from Tesco)

1tsp Brown Sugar

2tsp Salt

3tbsp Melted Butter, OR Olive Oil

400mi Lukewarm Water

Mix all ingredients in a bowl and then knead either by hand or machine, for five minutes.

Fold the bread into a ball and place on an oiled and floured baking sheet, or put in a loaf tin, or divide into balls.

Cover with a teatowel, and leave somewhere warm to rise for around an hour. or until its doubled in size.

Dust the top of the bread with some flour and make a cut with a sharp knife.

Cook in a pre-heated oven 200c for 30 minutes.

Easy!

[triffid]

If I may ask a few specific questions about making the sort of bread I've liked from professional bakeries. Could I (fairly) easily obtain 1) the so-called 'starter' for sour dough, 2) leaven (as the alternative to yeast), and c) good - french? - flour that would make the chewy sort of bread ?

(I have an electric oven and, as I mentioned earlier, I don't mind getting a good quality bread maker but only if the final product is going to be sourdough rye au levain almost as good as what I get by trekking over to the top flight hotel bakery that's a ten minute drive away )

Edited October 6, 2013 by triffid

[phutoie2]

Bread is just really 4 basic ingredients. Flour, yeast, salt and water. Use quality ingredients and measure carefully. Watch the water content, unless making dough with a high water content, I stick to about 60% of the flour weight. I find using an oil such as canola helps to soften and preserve longer. Personally I always keep some dough back in the fridge to use as a ferment.

Rarely will I use sugar in a dough mix unless I 'm baking barm cakes or a fruit tea cake type loaf.

I still bake bread about 3 times a week. Here's some recently.

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[jaiyenyen]

The small amount of sugar in the recipie I use is used to feed the yeast.

You don't taste it in the finished loaf.

[phutoie2]

If your talking about active dry yeast, I would not bother. Just throw it in the flour just like fresh yeast.

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[jaiyenyen]

I do, along with the tsp of sugar.

I thought the sugar was there to help the yeast. I'll make a loaf later without the sugar and see if there's any difference.

I was also told that you shouldn't put the salt next to the yeast because it can kill it. True or not?

[Cuban]

I do, along with the tsp of sugar.

I thought the sugar was there to help the yeast. I'll make a loaf later without the sugar and see if there's any difference.

I was also told that you shouldn't put the salt next to the yeast because it can kill it. True or not?

As I said before, bread is an artisan skill and each will have their own "perfect" bread, i use dried yeast but i always start it first in a mug with two teaspoons of flour and three-four of sugar and hot water. When this is mixed and COOLED to about 35 degrees C I add the yeast and mix, this is ready to meet flour and water after 10-15 minutes.

When the dough is well mixed (10 minutes) I then add a teaspoon of salt. Salt will retard the yeast as will too much oil added to the dough, but salt also takes some of the water from the dough, that's why bakers I know add salt last.

Adding fibre is the other way I customise loaves, you can use a mashed up apple, the papery skins from garlic or even rice husks. All these add complex carbs and fibre which can be missing a farang-Thai diet that does not include the spicy salads.

Rice is not a "good" carbohydrate, home made bread and pizza bases can be.

[triffid]

The man at the bakery of a very up market hotel here in Chiangmai told me that 'levain' or leaven is much better to use than yeast - and was the old fashioned, original ingredient for bread - and that apart from the better taste etc the bread will last longer than that made with yeast.

But sourdough bread is what I really. How to get that?

[cooked]

Got a Kenwood at Central.

Just for fun.

Tried 10 times.

Bread eatable, but not good enough

No fun.

End of story.

I have to agree, although 'just for fun' cost me ฿7000.-. By reducing the water quantities by 5% I managed to get a decent whole meal loaf, I then discovered that I prefer rice! The family like it though so I make a loaf now and then. The other problem is that most Thai butter is disgusting muck, I have to drive two hours to get Lurpak butter.

[cooked]

The man at the bakery of a very up market hotel here in Chiangmai told me that 'levain' or leaven is much better to use than yeast - and was the old fashioned, original ingredient for bread - and that apart from the better taste etc the bread will last longer than that made with yeast.

But sourdough bread is what I really. How to get that?

Levain is live yeast, I forget the recipe but it is a combination of dry yeast, flour, sugar and water. Lives in the fridge and is much livelier.

[billd766]

I made some rolls today and drying the Breville loaf pan and collapsible kneading blade for bread & dough making the blade looked a bit floppy. OK thins I perhaps it is time to get the spare out after 4 years and ordewr a new blade. I go onlive to find spares and the replacement blade is AUD$ 87.25 or nearly 2.600 baht. Bugger me they must be pi**ed so I look at Verausu online and a new machine with 2 blades is only 4,875 baht. granted it is out of stock but that is less than the price of 2 new blades and my machine is over 4 years old anyway.

http://www.verasu.com/product_detail.php?pid=1015

Central sell the Kenwood but that is over 7,000 baht.

There is also the Kenwood BM256 http://www.kenwoodworld.com/en-th/all-products/cooking-and-baking/bread-makers/BM256-Bread-Maker-0WBM256002/

or the Fagor PAN 850 http://www.fagorthailand.co.th/en/product_services/product_detail.php?menu_id=3&submenu_id=2&pc_id=20&p_id=182

I feel it is getting closer to the time mine went into retirement at the great recycling plant called the trash bin and a replacement is needed.

[harrry]

I made some rolls today and drying the Breville loaf pan and collapsible kneading blade for bread & dough making the blade looked a bit floppy. OK thins I perhaps it is time to get the spare out after 4 years and ordewr a new blade. I go onlive to find spares and the replacement blade is AUD$ 87.25 or nearly 2.600 baht. Bugger me they must be pi**ed so I look at Verausu online and a new machine with 2 blades is only 4,875 baht. granted it is out of stock but that is less than the price of 2 new blades and my machine is over 4 years old anyway.

http://www.verasu.com/product_detail.php?pid=1015

Central sell the Kenwood but that is over 7,000 baht.

There is also the Kenwood BM256 http://www.kenwoodworld.com/en-th/all-products/cooking-and-baking/bread-makers/BM256-Bread-Maker-0WBM256002/

or the Fagor PAN 850 http://www.fagorthailand.co.th/en/product_services/product_detail.php?menu_id=3&submenu_id=2&pc_id=20&p_id=182

I feel it is getting closer to the time mine went into retirement at the great recycling plant called the trash bin and a replacement is needed.

I can strongly recomend the fagor...though after three years of use every 2 days the motor started sticking. ...Central sent it to service and they rang me it will be b1500 for a complete service and new motor. Seems a fair deal and it makes great bread once you get used to it.

Edited October 7, 2013 by harrry

[Bcgardener]

Just brought a Breville Custom Loaf back from Oz. About 230 dollars online and the place was 10minutes from SYD airport. Can highly recommend this machine as it has about 60 programs and you can customise the bread making programs to suit what you need. Can even design and program your own process then save it in the machine memory. Recipes that come with it are also good with lots of hints. Followed a recipe for Chelsea buns on the weekend (cooked in the oven). Went down a treat with the Thais at work.

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[billd766]

I made some rolls today and drying the Breville loaf pan and collapsible kneading blade for bread & dough making the blade looked a bit floppy. OK thins I perhaps it is time to get the spare out after 4 years and ordewr a new blade. I go onlive to find spares and the replacement blade is AUD$ 87.25 or nearly 2.600 baht. Bugger me they must be pi**ed so I look at Verausu online and a new machine with 2 blades is only 4,875 baht. granted it is out of stock but that is less than the price of 2 new blades and my machine is over 4 years old anyway.

http://www.verasu.com/product_detail.php?pid=1015

Central sell the Kenwood but that is over 7,000 baht.

There is also the Kenwood BM256 http://www.kenwoodworld.com/en-th/all-products/cooking-and-baking/bread-makers/BM256-Bread-Maker-0WBM256002/

or the Fagor PAN 850 http://www.fagorthailand.co.th/en/product_services/product_detail.php?menu_id=3&submenu_id=2&pc_id=20&p_id=182

I feel it is getting closer to the time mine went into retirement at the great recycling plant called the trash bin and a replacement is needed.

I can strongly recomend the fagor...though after three years of use every 2 days the motor started sticking. ...Central sent it to service and they rang me it will be b1500 for a complete service and new motor. Seems a fair deal and it makes great bread once you get used to it.

Where did you buy it from? I sent an email to Fagor a couple of days ago asking where I could buy one but no reply yet.

I live half way between BKK and CM but I will be in BKK for a few days next month.

[billd766]

Just brought a Breville Custom Loaf back from Oz. About 230 dollars online and the place was 10minutes from SYD airport. Can highly recommend this machine as it has about 60 programs and you can customise the bread making programs to suit what you need. Can even design and program your own process then save it in the machine memory. Recipes that come with it are also good with lots of hints. Followed a recipe for Chelsea buns on the weekend (cooked in the oven). Went down a treat with the Thais at work.

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Sounds OK but you may well have a problem getting spare blades etc in Thailand.

Also SYD seems a long way to go just to get a breadmaker. It's OK if you live there or have family/friends but for the likes of me it is not so easy.