Common scam by estate agency websites, beware! The unfortunate true of Real Estate in Pattaya...

[Annonymous]

I've been looking for lots of Pattaya properties recently, and a few dozen websites and a good hundred mails/calls later, I've noticed that it's a common "scam" to showcase a cheap, amazing property incredibly well located, which is shown as "Available" on their website, but when you actually inquire about it they will tell you that it has been already sold/rented and will offer you to show you other properties instead.

At this point they got your email, name and phone number, for a property that is NOT available and which they won't remove from their website even after pointing them out that it's still displayed as "Available" on their website despite being not available.

Those other available properties they'll suggest are either much more expensive, or either pure shit, at least compared to the one you inquired about.


As a result I find it really difficult to browser properties online as you never know if it's really available or not. I also tried to go out and drive for hours going from Moo Baan to Moo Baan, and it's an horrible research job as most of the time when you see "FOR SALE/RENT" sign with a phone number and try to call it, the number is either unavailable or nobody answers. Then if somebody answers he or she barely speaks English, and if the price is right then you'll have to wait for them to come down to show you the house, which might take 30 minutes to one hour (!) waiting in the sun (!!) or just come back again at a later time... which is also kind of difficult for anyone not speaking Thai to set up such meeting at a later time...

Also, I've visited most agencies in Pattaya/Jomtien and I can say that their catalog is very limited to only a few percentage of the houses on the market. I'm pretty sure that all agencies together cover no more than 1000 house properties, while I'm sure that the real amount of properties for rent/sale is more like 10 000...

When searching a property through an agency you're limiting yourself to 10% of the available properties on the market, that's a true fact.

[KittenKong]

You are absolutely correct that the vast bulk of properties listed on agents' websites are not even close to being accurately represented. Many seem to be several years out of date.

However I'm not sure that this is invariably a scam designed to fool the unwary.

I think that most agents in Pattaya are quite simply too incompetent and lazy to keep their sites up to date. A quick glance at the way they compose their descriptions or indicate the most basic information about properties will reveal that most agents here are not the brightest sparks in the fire.

[bangkokstick]

Any way is good to attract customers.

Most people don't know what they want and their ideas are often wrong.

Once they are in the office they listen, understand that they are wrong and know nothing (not even what they really like), then buy what is available and that is proposed.

Simple.

[Gsxrnz]

What the OP has described is hardly a scam. It does show that the agents are crap at maintaining their websites.

As to the owners of properties he calls about speaking very little English.......um, this is Thailand, go to your country and speak Thai to a landlord and see how far you get.

Waiting in the sun for an hour....um, this is Thailand, go to your country and probably sit in the pouring rain instead.

I've rented four houses in Jomtien and had absolutely no trouble at all in renting or quitting the properties.

But then......maybe I have a different attitude to the OP.

[Woody1]

Christ!!!!!!! Is that the moan of the day?????? What would you like, to be led by naked virgins throwing rose petals in front of you as you walk up tp your dream house??? Listen..............................Oh boll**ks, I can't be bothered!

[Gsxrnz]

Christ!!!!!!! Is that the moan of the day?????? What would you like, to be led by naked virgins throwing rose petals in front of you as you walk up tp your dream house??? Listen..............................Oh boll**ks, I can't be bothered!

Post of the day!!!

[anon8]

Christ!!!!!!! Is that the moan of the day?????? What would you like, to be led by naked virgins throwing rose petals in front of you as you walk up tp your dream house???

Maybe he expects accurate, up to date listings, not page after page of useless crap.

[blackman]

i have a house advert for rent running on a free classifieds website

it was rented in February

i asked them to take it down then and many times sice

its still there and i still get responses which i answer

i am sympathetic to those who call and email but what can i do?

i assume its left up to make the site look bigger with more selection than it really has

on the other hand i had an advert for a house sale on Seaboard properties

i sold it privately, i called and she amended its status within hours

left it up there but marked sold

i expect this was done to reflect a successful sale

maybe sometimes the sellers don't tell them and allow an update to happen

so it may not always be the agents at fault

[RabC]

Christ!!!!!!! Is that the moan of the day?????? What would you like, to be led by naked virgins throwing rose petals in front of you as you walk up tp your dream house??? Listen..............................Oh boll**ks, I can't be bothered!

Post of the day!!!

By a blood sucker (estate agent)

[blackman]

Christ!!!!!!! Is that the moan of the day?????? What would you like, to be led by naked virgins throwing rose petals in front of you as you walk up tp your dream house??? Listen..............................Oh boll**ks, I can't be bothered!

is that a service you could offer?

if so i would like to view a house today

dun matter which house

[JSixpack]

Agencies did the same thing before there was internet: leave old ads up on their windows for years and years. Think of it as decoration.

And no, looking around for a house to buy never fun. Neither is selling one!

Get over it.

[KittenKong]

Oh boll**ks, I can't be bothered!

This pretty much sums up the attitude of most Pattaya estate agents: idle people who cant be bothered to do anything properly.

There is probably a reason they end up doing unqualified sales work in a developing country, but I dont think that reason has much to do with either competence or diligence.

[Asiantravel]

Actually I'm quite surprised the OP has not encountered this technique before? It's one of the oldest tricks in their book, so to speak. Predating even the Internet itself estate agents would put a drawcard picture in their window just to get people to go inside to lodge an enquiry. Usually you could tell which property was the intended drawcard by how badly faded the photograph was

[Pattaya Pat]

Actually I'm quite surprised the OP has not encountered this technique before? It's one of the oldest tricks in their book, so to speak. Predating even the Internet itself estate agents would put a drawcard picture in their window just to get people to go inside to lodge an enquiry. Usually you could tell which property was the intended drawcard by how badly faded the photograph was

Hardly a 'scam' though is it. Talk about over dramatise things. Ridiculous.

[Asiantravel]

Actually I'm quite surprised the OP has not encountered this technique before? It's one of the oldest tricks in their book, so to speak. Predating even the Internet itself estate agents would put a drawcard picture in their window just to get people to go inside to lodge an enquiry. Usually you could tell which property was the intended drawcard by how badly faded the photograph was

Hardly a 'scam' though is it. Talk about over dramatise things. Ridiculous.

I think that's a matter of opinion on interpreting semantics. The Macmillan dictionary refers to scam as “a dishonest plan, especially for getting money “.

If an estate agent is going to attempt to lure me into looking at properties based on them using information which they know is outdated or false, then in my mind it is dishonest and they are doing so to try to get money = scam

quack quack

Edited October 4, 2013 by Asiantravel

[Pattaya Pat]

Actually I'm quite surprised the OP has not encountered this technique before? It's one of the oldest tricks in their book, so to speak. Predating even the Internet itself estate agents would put a drawcard picture in their window just to get people to go inside to lodge an enquiry. Usually you could tell which property was the intended drawcard by how badly faded the photograph was

Hardly a 'scam' though is it. Talk about over dramatise things. Ridiculous.

I think that's a matter of opinion on interpreting semantics. The Macmillan dictionary refers to scam as “a dishonest plan, especially for getting money “.

If an estate agent is going to attempt to lure me into looking at properties based on them using information which they know is outdated or false, then in my mind it is dishonest and they are doing so to try to get money = scam

quack quack

So advertising a property that is no longer on the market is going to get them your money?? Not sure how that would work.

As for the 'quack quack' comment....are you sure you are aright?

[Rimmer]

Flame removed

[KittenKong]

So advertising a property that is no longer on the market is going to get them your money?? Not sure how that would work.

You really don't understand? Wow.

It's very simple. You advertise a property that doesnt actually exist at a very attractive price. People contact you about the property. You say "Oh that one's just sold/rented/gone off the market/fallen down but there's another place that's just come onto our books that is really good. Let me tell you about it".

Here this technique is often used to sell off-plan units (big commission) to the unwary buyer who was really interested in a resale old unit. They only need to make one sale in a hundred attempts for it to pay off.

[KittenKong]

Hardly a 'scam' though is it. Talk about over dramatise things. Ridiculous.

Yes, it is indeed a scam if done deliberately. And as such in many civilised countries it is a criminal offence to advertise things that aren't actually available or are not as described.

Edited October 4, 2013 by KittenKong

[petercool]

When I was studying Commercial Law and Contract Law etc, I was interested to learn that an advertisement is considered an invitation for a buyer to make an offer to buy and not an offer in itself. Not sure if that applies here though. Any advertisement's misrepresentation was then governed by an Advertising body rather than by the legal system. But that was long ago and things may have changed.

[Pattaya Pat]

Hardly a 'scam' though is it. Talk about over dramatise things. Ridiculous.

Yes, it is indeed a scam if done deliberately. And as such in many civilised countries it is a criminal offence to advertise things that aren't actually available or are not as described.

It's called 'false advertising' you obviously have no idea of what a real scam actually is. And so what if it is a criminal offence in 'civilised' countries (nice little bit of Thai bashing there by the way) or are you saying that every law broken automatically means that it's a scam?...It's a criminal offence to drop litter in these wonderful civilised countries...is that a scam too?

Edited October 4, 2013 by Pattaya Pat

[Pattaya Pat]

So advertising a property that is no longer on the market is going to get them your money?? Not sure how that would work.

You really don't understand? Wow.

It's very simple. You advertise a property that doesnt actually exist at a very attractive price. People contact you about the property. You say "Oh that one's just sold/rented/gone off the market/fallen down but there's another place that's just come onto our books that is really good. Let me tell you about it".

Here this technique is often used to sell off-plan units (big commission) to the unwary buyer who was really interested in a resale old unit. They only need to make one sale in a hundred attempts for it to pay off.

I know how it works fella, a 10 year old would, but it still is NOT a scam. If a supermarket advertises they sell coke on a board outside but when you get in there they don't have any so you buy some sprite instead? Does that mean you have been scammed??

Also, has it not occured to you that the property company may not have updated their site, etc. It's possible. Either way, still not a scam.

You are not even worth talking too.

Edited October 4, 2013 by Pattaya Pat

[norrona]

I used to work in that business in Pattaya many moons ago.....

what the OP describes is true to a certain extent but here's a few reasons....

1, why would anyone rent an office, hire staff and then be transparent about where all their listings are, especially when there is no sole agency and someone could recognize where that property is and go do a deal direct with the owner? or make it easy for the other agents in knowing where their listing is!

2, yes there always was the bungalow/studio in the window cheap and most viewers expected that to be slap bang in the middle of central Pattaya...this was an example and got people through the door, talking-interacting and then getting real about what they can get for their money...

3, the amount of tyre kickers a holiday place has is enormous....In my 8 years working there I see the same old faces year after year who would browse and expect you to take them out....many of them were slippery and were just using the agents for a free ride and always vague about what they wanted to spend, when they were looking to move in etc

I can go on but am sure you get the message.....

by the way the OP is interested in properties but doesn't state their budget, what they are looking for or anything on a forum where there are many owners possibly looking to rent and maybe contact him direct.... it goes back to the old saying 'you can't help anyone when they don't want to help themselves'

Cheers

[Annonymous]

I know how it works fella, a 10 year old would, but it still is NOT a scam. If a supermarket advertises they sell coke on a board outside but when you get in there they don't have any so you buy some sprite instead? Does that mean you have been scammed??

Yes! If they're out of stock they should remove the ad.

Also, has it not occured to you that the property company may not have updated their site, etc. It's possible. Either way, still not a scam.

How come they can "update their site" to add new properties but not remove (or even tag as "sold/rented") the old ones?

When you call them and tell them about the mistake on their website, and that they still deliberately won't remove it then it's a scam my friend.

You are not even worth talking too.

I know this wasn't addressed to me, but I wish there was a "Dislike this" button.

[Asiantravel]

So advertising a property that is no longer on the market is going to get them your money?? Not sure how that would work.

You really don't understand? Wow.

It's very simple. You advertise a property that doesnt actually exist at a very attractive price. People contact you about the property. You say "Oh that one's just sold/rented/gone off the market/fallen down but there's another place that's just come onto our books that is really good. Let me tell you about it".

Here this technique is often used to sell off-plan units (big commission) to the unwary buyer who was really interested in a resale old unit. They only need to make one sale in a hundred attempts for it to pay off.

I know how it works fella, a 10 year old would, but it still is NOT a scam. If a supermarket advertises they sell coke on a board outside but when you get in there they don't have any so you buy some sprite instead? Does that mean you have been scammed??

Also, has it not occured to you that the property company may not have updated their site, etc. It's possible. Either way, still not a scam.

You are not even worth talking too.

But as the OP pointed out

“which they won't remove from their website even after pointing them out that it's still displayed as "Available" on their website despite being not available.”

Enough said

[Annonymous]

by the way the OP is interested in properties but doesn't state their budget, what they are looking for or anything on a forum where there are many owners possibly looking to rent and maybe contact him direct.... it goes back to the old saying 'you can't help anyone when they don't want to help themselves'

Cheers

Long-term rental of a small European-style independent house with garden, budget is 20k max. Anywhere from Pattaya, East-Pattaya (would like to avoid busy Soi Khao Noi if possible), Jomtien, East-Jomtien (Soi Chaiyapruk is good) to Na-Jomtien and even farther...

From what I have already visited, I have reasonable expectations but still have preferences for large non-barred windows, bright colors, modern style.

Anyone with a house that'd match please feel free to send me pictures!

[norrona]

by the way the OP is interested in properties but doesn't state their budget, what they are looking for or anything on a forum where there are many owners possibly looking to rent and maybe contact him direct.... it goes back to the old saying 'you can't help anyone when they don't want to help themselves'

Cheers

Long-term rental of a small European-style independent house with garden, budget is 20k max. Anywhere from Pattaya, East-Pattaya (would like to avoid busy Soi Khao Noi if possible), Jomtien, East-Jomtien (Soi Chaiyapruk is good) to Na-Jomtien and even farther...

From what I have already visited, I have reasonable expectations but still have preferences for large non-barred windows, bright colors, modern style.

Anyone with a house that'd match please feel free to send me pictures!

Did some of my reasons as to why it is this way satisfy you?

Really you should try dealing with estate agents in UK....they don't even do assisted viewings....

Agents in New York....well you pay them to find you a property...

In Pattaya my old companies slogan was 'we find you a property free of charge'

I am sure it's not much different now!

[anon8]

I know how it works fella, a 10 year old would, but it still is NOT a scam. If a supermarket advertises they sell coke on a board outside but when you get in there they don't have any so you buy some sprite instead? Does that mean you have been scammed??

If an advertisement outside supermarket promises Coke at 5 cents a bottle, but they never had in stock at that price, it is a scam, you been scammed to enter the store in hopes that once you are inside the shop, you buy something.

its one thing not to remove expired listings on real estate agents web site, its another thing when agent places a prominent ad describing a very attractive property, at very low price, a listing that never really existed and is deliberately misleading, designed purely so you contact the agent.

[KittenKong]

It's called 'false advertising' you obviously have no idea of what a real scam actually is.

A scam is any attempt to obtain money by deception. Deliberately advertising items that dont exist with a view to getting people to buy something else clearly falls under this description. This is why it is illegal in many countries.

And so what if it is a criminal offence in 'civilised' countries (nice little bit of Thai bashing there by the way) or are you saying that every law broken automatically means that it's a scam?

Not at all. I'm just pointing out that in many countries an estate agent could be prosecuted for advertising properties that dont exist or are incorrectly described. I think this is entirely normal and should be done here too, and I expect that eventually it will happen. But Thailand does have quite a lot of catching up to do in respect of consumer protection, having started on it somewhat later than other more developed countries.

No Thai-bashing involved at all: just simple fact.

[KittenKong]

I know how it works fella, a 10 year old would, but it still is NOT a scam. If a supermarket advertises they sell coke on a board outside but when you get in there they don't have any so you buy some sprite instead? Does that mean you have been scammed??

If they are selling an identical item at an identical price then this would not be illegal. However this isnt what happens with real estate agents. The advert may be for a 3-bed detached house with sea views for 2MB but when you actually get inside the only thing they have is a 2-bed house with no view for 3MB.

Also, has it not occured to you that the property company may not have updated their site, etc.

Of course it did. This is why I specifically said "if done deliberately". That said, some listings and ads have clearly been out of date for months if not years. There is no excuse for not keeping listings up to date on a weekly basis.

You are not even worth talking too.

That is indeed more like the attitude one expects from an estate agent here. No staying power.