Mother seeks safety advice for sons on motorbikes

[billd766]

OP you have asked where to go to buy kit for them.

There is the Paddock shop in Bangkok ( Website is http://www.paddock.co.th/2011/index.php ) on Ratchadapisek road and I think it is close to the subway station at Rama 9.

There is also the Motorbike directory project at this website http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/241191-the-motorbike-directory-project/ and then click onto the link. There are many useful shops and addresses etc here and depending on where you live you may find something closer.

I have found the Paddock very helpful both on the phone and in person and several of the staff speak good English.

I don't have your problem with my son yet as he is only 9 but I do have a Thai nephew who at 17 basically is a dumb as a box of rocks and he has had one accident already.

Unfortunate as in most countries in the world teenagers take more notice of their mates than their family.

I wish you the best of luck.

[KRS1]

I am currently talking to UK company Strada about a cool protective jacket for bikers, using a lightweight solar reflective material. with a few plastic inserts, to be made here or in China. Aiming for a retail price here of 1500-2000baht, with the additional advantage of being high visibility..

That may take a while, so in the meantime get him to wear something bright and tell him not to race between rows of traffic, someone pulling out is a big danger. I have seen so many "T-Bone" accidents here, all dramatic.

The other thing to consider is the type of helmet, obviously a good quality one, but then there is the debate about style, I would never wear a full face helmet in town, visibility is reduced to almost nothing, with all peripheral vision lost and like wise hearing diminished. They are hotter to wear and the only sacrifice is jaw protection.

I really do not agree with this, peripheral vision is still good if the helmet is well designed. Hearing is also acceptable, if it is designed well.

I can hear honking, big trucks pulling up, soi dogs barking, my chain rattling, sirens, drunk people yelling...almost anything except for a whisper. Although there are some that are dangerously quiet.

Just put on my helmet and tested peripheral vsion, its only reduced about an inch per side. Side to side and slightly back is fine...full face helmets are usually tighter fitting and do not fly up like open face helmets either when speeds start to climb.

[ThunderDuck]

Spending a huge amount of money on protective gear will not keep your children alive.

Invest in a good quality helmet and gloves ... everything else will be left in the closet.

A mentor that will spend some road time with your kids and pass on their knowledge

and experience would be ideal but perhaps difficult to arrange.

Linking them up with some local riders for a weekend away from Bkk could be a good start.

[AllanB]

I am currently talking to UK company Strada about a cool protective jacket for bikers, using a lightweight solar reflective material. with a few plastic inserts, to be made here or in China. Aiming for a retail price here of 1500-2000baht, with the additional advantage of being high visibility..

That may take a while, so in the meantime get him to wear something bright and tell him not to race between rows of traffic, someone pulling out is a big danger. I have seen so many "T-Bone" accidents here, all dramatic.

The other thing to consider is the type of helmet, obviously a good quality one, but then there is the debate about style, I would never wear a full face helmet in town, visibility is reduced to almost nothing, with all peripheral vision lost and like wise hearing diminished. They are hotter to wear and the only sacrifice is jaw protection.

I really do not agree with this, peripheral vision is still good if the helmet is well designed. Hearing is also acceptable, if it is designed well.

I can hear honking, big trucks pulling up, soi dogs barking, my chain rattling, sirens, drunk people yelling...almost anything except for a whisper. Although there are some that are dangerously quiet.

Just put on my helmet and tested peripheral vsion, its only reduced about an inch per side. Side to side and slightly back is fine...full face helmets are usually tighter fitting and do not fly up like open face helmets either when speeds start to climb.

How can you have any peripheral vision with a helmet in the way? Maybe you can hear, or more likely feel big trucks behind you, but try wearing an open face helmet and you will see and hear a whole lot more, like cars and car engines and even other bikes. With the chin strap in place, riding-up is not an issue at town speeds, of 20-60kph.

A full face helmet comes into it's own on the highway, where jaw protection is important at the higher speeds you are travelling, the wind noise drowns out anything worth hearing and peripheral vision is relatively unimportant. And, as you so rightly say, as they are tighter fitting they ride up less than an OF.

[BSJ]

Rollerblading wrist, elbow and knee pads....and a helmet are all you need.

[adweb00]

As already mentioned good helmet pants jacket gloves etc etc if off-road a le-att brace is worth every cent but the biggest thing lacking in Thailand is EDUCATION!! Been riding 20 years and the things ive seen here never in a million years would i of thought I'd see crazy stuff like I have!!

what is a le-att brace?

It sits under your helmet as in pic. Stops major head movement so no neck injures. Etc etc

[KRS1]

I am currently talking to UK company Strada about a cool protective jacket for bikers, using a lightweight solar reflective material. with a few plastic inserts, to be made here or in China. Aiming for a retail price here of 1500-2000baht, with the additional advantage of being high visibility..

That may take a while, so in the meantime get him to wear something bright and tell him not to race between rows of traffic, someone pulling out is a big danger. I have seen so many "T-Bone" accidents here, all dramatic.

The other thing to consider is the type of helmet, obviously a good quality one, but then there is the debate about style, I would never wear a full face helmet in town, visibility is reduced to almost nothing, with all peripheral vision lost and like wise hearing diminished. They are hotter to wear and the only sacrifice is jaw protection.

I really do not agree with this, peripheral vision is still good if the helmet is well designed. Hearing is also acceptable, if it is designed well.

I can hear honking, big trucks pulling up, soi dogs barking, my chain rattling, sirens, drunk people yelling...almost anything except for a whisper. Although there are some that are dangerously quiet.

Just put on my helmet and tested peripheral vsion, its only reduced about an inch per side. Side to side and slightly back is fine...full face helmets are usually tighter fitting and do not fly up like open face helmets either when speeds start to climb.

How can you have any peripheral vision with a helmet in the way? Maybe you can hear, or more likely feel big trucks behind you, but try wearing an open face helmet and you will see and hear a whole lot more, like cars and car engines and even other bikes. With the chin strap in place, riding-up is not an issue at town speeds, of 20-60kph.

A full face helmet comes into it's own on the highway, where jaw protection is important at the higher speeds you are travelling, the wind noise drowns out anything worth hearing and peripheral vision is relatively unimportant. And, as you so rightly say, as they are tighter fitting they ride up less than an OF.

Ridiculous

I hit 60kph when im leaving 7-11.

[Beardog]

I am currently talking to UK company Strada about a cool protective jacket for bikers, using a lightweight solar reflective material. with a few plastic inserts, to be made here or in China. Aiming for a retail price here of 1500-2000baht, with the additional advantage of being high visibility..

That may take a while, so in the meantime get him to wear something bright and tell him not to race between rows of traffic, someone pulling out is a big danger. I have seen so many "T-Bone" accidents here, all dramatic.

The other thing to consider is the type of helmet, obviously a good quality one, but then there is the debate about style, I would never wear a full face helmet in town, visibility is reduced to almost nothing, with all peripheral vision lost and like wise hearing diminished. They are hotter to wear and the only sacrifice is jaw protection.

I really do not agree with this, peripheral vision is still good if the helmet is well designed. Hearing is also acceptable, if it is designed well.

I can hear honking, big trucks pulling up, soi dogs barking, my chain rattling, sirens, drunk people yelling...almost anything except for a whisper. Although there are some that are dangerously quiet.

Just put on my helmet and tested peripheral vsion, its only reduced about an inch per side. Side to side and slightly back is fine...full face helmets are usually tighter fitting and do not fly up like open face helmets either when speeds start to climb.

How can you have any peripheral vision with a helmet in the way? Maybe you can hear, or more likely feel big trucks behind you, but try wearing an open face helmet and you will see and hear a whole lot more, like cars and car engines and even other bikes. With the chin strap in place, riding-up is not an issue at town speeds, of 20-60kph.

A full face helmet comes into it's own on the highway, where jaw protection is important at the higher speeds you are travelling, the wind noise drowns out anything worth hearing and peripheral vision is relatively unimportant. And, as you so rightly say, as they are tighter fitting they ride up less than an OF.

Ridiculous

I hit 60kph when im leaving 7-11.

And than there is second gear whoooopp!

[AllanB]

Then, I agree Baredog, you need a full face helmet and a wing and a prayer and a hundred bits of string around your wrists, a black cat in your pocket and 13 rabbits feet scattered about your person. It's okay in Thailand they bury you for 3 years, before they burn the body, they may have a cure for a broken neck by then.

[Shurup]

This is just scaremongering, sorry.

No helmets are made the same among different models/manufacturers. Some are better for peripheral vision than the others, try a few models on and see what works for you.

I wear a pot helmet for the shorter rides, but when traveling I always wear a full face helmet (modular) and coming trough the cities, never had issues with not seeing around me.

[Briggsy]

The Kawasaki and Honda showrooms on Rama 9 and Ekamai - Ram Intra respectively sell all the gear. The helmet should be at least 2,500 Baht, Real, Shark, Bimola are decent brands. It must be a snug fit, not loose. If it is loose, it may well fall off in an accident. Honda sell Scoyco jackets for 4,000 Baht but if your kids won't wear them there is no point.

As many posters have said, a defensive riding course is the best investment you can make.

[AllanB]

This is just scaremongering, sorry.

No helmets are made the same among different models/manufacturers. Some are better for peripheral vision than the others, try a few models on and see what works for you.

I wear a pot helmet for the shorter rides, but when traveling I always wear a full face helmet (modular) and coming trough the cities, never had issues with not seeing around me.

I guess people will make their own minds up, I find full face helmets claustrophobic, very hot and sweaty and that is reason enough for me, but then I sweat more than anyone on the planet (sorry for that image)..I guess I am in the wrong place really.

On a positive note, full face helmets do look better, much better for bank raids too and all the money lender's collection boys wear them around here, so there is the menacing effect as well..

[paz]

It's this simple keep your speed low and you will never have a serious injury, you and anyone else should wear helmets, always know what is behind you and never ever stop suddenly at red lights, people behind you will assume you are going through and crash! slow down in plenty of time when you see the lights changing! just use your common sense!

OMG, where do I come from this is called wishful thinking. You can be killed at any speed and even when stopped. Defensive driving helps, but it may not be enough. Why lying to ourselves- driving bikes is dangerous, and in Thailand even more.

This said from someone that have been driving since 14 yts young.

[RubberSideDown]

I looked into the full-face vs 3/4 helmet issue- it seems there's a 35% chance of taking a hit to the jaw area if the head is involved in a bike accident (not all get-offs impact the head, of course)- I only wear a full-face helmet on my big bike- I don't think that's going to change. I do wear a smaller helmet on my scooter, but now I rethinking that.

[Yme]

The more protection you give them the more invincible they'll think they are.

Education, is key. They should be told and totally accept the fact that everyone else on the road is trying to kill them and drive appropriately. No using cell phones while riding, driving for every other person on the road - by being totally focused on their driving and contemplating what other drivers are going / might do (eg if a car is travelling it at 60kp/h it's unlikely to make a 90 degree turn in front of you, but if it's slowing down it could be looking for a street address and every Thai knows those indicator globes burn out faster and need to be replaced if used.

A full face helmet - there's a shop on Rama IV on the opposite side of the turn off that goes down to the Klong Toey wharfs. The Khlong Toey wharf turn off has a police box on the corner and the shop right on the corner of the street that goes up to Sukhumvit is good for small / medium size full-face local helmets.

Shoes of some sort over flip flops as previously mentioned.

Gloves if they'll wear them.

Oh, and one of those black lycra hats the motocycle taxi drivers wear to stop the helmet getting full of sweat and hairs and smelling rank after a few months

[wantan]

I go up to 80kmh here in Bangkok with my scooter. And for this i wear a fullface. Only for some very short rides i use a 3/4, e.g. when going for a jog in the park. After doing sport it would be deadly to put on a fullface in this heat.

[robblok]

I looked into the full-face vs 3/4 helmet issue- it seems there's a 35% chance of taking a hit to the jaw area if the head is involved in a bike accident (not all get-offs impact the head, of course)- I only wear a full-face helmet on my big bike- I don't think that's going to change. I do wear a smaller helmet on my scooter, but now I rethinking that.

I read the same thing... about that 35%.. so that would mean that 1 in 3 times if you need your helmet and your not wearing a full face your screwed anyway. Only advantage i see for not wearing a full face is that you can take your cheap helmet on the scooter.

Like you my full face is expensive so you need to lock it and that takes a bit more time so that is the advantage over full face.

[wantan]

^

Easy solution, buy an inexpensive second fullface, e.g. the Real GJ-998 for 1500 Baht:

http://www.real-helmets.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&category_id=2&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=4&product_id=6

But OK, i lock my cheap Real too, and yes, this takes some time. But at least its a "real helmet", not just a plastic bucket

Edited October 6, 2013 by wantan

[robblok]

^

Easy solution, buy an inexpensive second fullface, e.g. the Real GJ-998 for 1500 Baht:

http://www.real-helmets.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&category_id=2&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=4&product_id=6

But OK, i lock my cheap Real too, and yes, this takes some time. But at least its a "real helmet", not just a plastic bucket

I don't use other helmets anymore i find my more expensive helmet a lot more comfortable. I used to have Real helmets they were good this is just better.. but you get what you pay for.

[William Osborne]

can't believe there are some people arguing against a full faced helmet ... i had a fall off a Yamaha RD 80 when i was about 17, maybe doing 70 km but can remember sliding face first along a footpath... only for me wearing a full face helmet i would have lost a good part of my face... as was, i only had a hole gouged in my knee and one side of my ass, my jeans were literally ripped off on one side.

Even now, on the scooter i always were a cheapo full faced INDEX helmet, i would wear a more expensive one but would probably nicked within a week.

[harrry]

I do not think many people are arguing that full face helmets are better. What they are saying is that a helmet that is worn is better than one that is not and the facts are that often people will not wear a full face helmet for short trips.

[Beardog]

Years ago when I was into sidecar racing as the wing rider I split a full face helmet open on a nasty spill. & years later I got ejected into oncoming traffic with a half helmet & that split as well. Short of a bad headache from both helmets saved my noggin. The full granted will marginally be safer because it would save the chin area (Just my opinion) but I too do not care for the blind spots they causes. No doubt they offer more protection but it is more a personal preference than anything. The main thing to be critical about is if it really has a Dot Or Snell rating that is real. We all know they tend to stretch things a bit in Thailand. That being said my helmet is in the U.S.

When I am in San Fransisco I ride full helmet. The temperature is bearable for a full helm. Here It is too hot for me in a full helmet as well!

I think it is more personal taste on the helmet if they both meet safety standards. And I know I should but on quick trips in Bang Saray I sometimes don't ride with the helmet or mesh jacket. Bad Boy!

[Addonvalue]

^

Easy solution, buy an inexpensive second fullface, e.g. the Real GJ-998 for 1500 Baht:

http://www.real-helmets.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&category_id=2&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=4&product_id=6

But OK, i lock my cheap Real too, and yes, this takes some time. But at least its a "real helmet", not just a plastic bucket

Are helmets like the cheap Index made from different material from say, the REAL? Is Index plastic?

[Addonvalue]

Anyone know of any safety jacket shops in the northern Bangkok area or Rangsit, Bang Khen, Bangkapi, Ramindra, Chaengwattana, Saphan Mai, Lad Prao, Thonglor, Pradit-Manutham (there's Honda Big Wings -- do they have anything good there? )

[wantan]

^

Easy solution, buy an inexpensive second fullface, e.g. the Real GJ-998 for 1500 Baht:

http://www.real-helmets.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&category_id=2&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=4&product_id=6

But OK, i lock my cheap Real too, and yes, this takes some time. But at least its a "real helmet", not just a plastic bucket

Are helmets like the cheap Index made from different material from say, the REAL? Is Index plastic?

Can not say much about the outer shell. I guess all cheaper helmets use ABS plastic, Real too.

IIRR the cheap Index helmets use simple styrofoam as deformable zone (which doesn't work very well imo). The Real helmets use a special helmet foam. AFAIK all Real helmets are DOT rated (some also ECE). Index not.

IIRR you get a fullface Index for 700-800 Baht. Real helmets start at 1400-1500 Baht.

[billd766]

There is also at Chiang Rai Saddlery the LS 2 helmet which is a full face and can be a half face helmet too.

http://www.crsaddlebags.com/helmets.html

For any helmet I personally would reccommend one in gloss white to reflect the heat. That is my personal choice though it would not be so good in snowy conditions. Fortunately there is little chance of that.

You may find these very useful also. Something I have found over the years.

Fieldsheer Size Chart.doc

HJC Helmet conversion sizes.xls

Motorcycle helmet and clothing size chart.doc

Motorcycle helmet and clothing size guide.xls

Tyre age dating.doc

[RubberSideDown]

If you're looking to buy gear, try to splurge a bit on your helmet (full-face, 3/4, whatever)- generally it's comfort you pay for (assuming the helmets you're looking at meet the same safety standard), and it's SO worth it.

[DualSportBiker]

Training, training and more training - whether they like it or not. You should make using the bikes conditional on completing a proper training course of which there are several options.

For those who don't know, the compulsory and rather good bike training system in Singapore was copied from optional training courses available here. It is a real shame they are not compulsory here...

Honda and Yamaha has courses on Bangna and are the best investment you can make in your kids safety. Storm have some great trainers like Khun Nay of Barcelona motors, and Khun Ek.

When they have their first 'bump' they will understand why bike shoes at minimum, or boots, gloves, and a full-faced helmet (or MX/enduro helmet) stop minor bumps from being weeks of irritation and pain.

I rode in Singapore for a while without gloves then saw a scooter t-boned when both vehicles were doing 10-15 kph. The rider put his hand down and lost all the skin from his wrist to his elbow on the railing! I turned around and got my gloves and put my steel-caps on...

As for those of you who change what you wear depending on how far you are going - remember this. Most accidents happen close to home on familiar roads. We are lower our intensity when close to home, especially on the way home when we might be tired. Familiarity breeds contempt and on bikes, that leads to accidents. There is only one rule - All the gear - All the time.

Ride safe...

Edited October 7, 2013 by DualSportBiker

[AllanB]

I think that some of you guys know very little about kids, I have 4 and know a little more....training training training, whether they like it or not.... I don't think so. I also wonder if you know much about city riding in Thailand, recommending heavy black leather jackets designed to protect a GP rider. Gear that costs $100's is not practical either.

You have to get the kids on you side and choose gear that is easy to wear.

You also talk about crashes on racetracks and quote statistic of how certain gear protects you in an accident and this is where statistic fall down in the real world. How many accidents are caused by not being able to see or hear danger in a busy city, or being distracted my discomfort, and how many deaths are caused by not wearing the gear provided it cannot be quantified and who is to say that a kid with all this gear on will not take additional chances because he feels protected.

Michael Shoemacker drove like a nutcase compared with the guys before him, knowing he wouldn't die when he crashed.

Somehow you have to get inside the kid's head, talk to him and make him understand the dangers.

[AllanB]

I think that some of you guys know very little about kids, I have 4 and know a little more....training training training, whether they like it or not.... I don't think so. I also wonder if you know much about city riding in Thailand, recommending heavy black leather jackets designed to protect a GP rider. Gear that costs $100's is not practical either.

You have to get the kids on you side and choose gear that is easy to wear.

You also talk about crashes on racetracks and quote statistic of how certain gear protects you in an accident and this is where statistic fall down in the real world. How many accidents are caused by not being able to see or hear danger in a busy city, or being distracted my discomfort, and how many deaths are caused by not wearing the gear provided it cannot be quantified and who is to say that a kid with all this gear on will not take additional chances because he feels protected.

Michael Shoemacker drove like a nutcase compared with the guys before him, knowing he wouldn't die when he crashed.

Somehow you have to get inside the kid's head, talk to him and make him understand the dangers.