The end of student visas in Phuket

[BookMan]

My point using Egypt was, when it nearly slipped into civil war, as Thailand nearly did a couple of years ago (red shirt / yellow shirt - 90 shot dead by the Thai army) - one of Egypt's biggest earners, tourism, went down, overnight. Similar to the tsunami hitting Phuket.

Tourism may not be a great deal of the Thai GDP - but it makes up, directly or indirectly, some ridiculous amout of employment - something like 20%.

As far as "barely causing a ripple in the Thai economy" if you klicked out those living here on tourist or Ed visas - ever give a thought to really just how many people that would be? The numbers are huge.

Not everyone here is over 50 years of age and living here on a retirement visa, but are still self funded and legitimate.

What would you consider the numbers to be?

Even at a very generous 500,000 mis-using Ed or Tourist visas, that would only be 2.5% of tourist numbers

1,000,000 would be 5% of tourist numbers

I doubt the numbers are anywhere near that

Effect it would have on the Thai economy? Negligible

[NamKangMan]

My point using Egypt was, when it nearly slipped into civil war, as Thailand nearly did a couple of years ago (red shirt / yellow shirt - 90 shot dead by the Thai army) - one of Egypt's biggest earners, tourism, went down, overnight. Similar to the tsunami hitting Phuket.

Tourism may not be a great deal of the Thai GDP - but it makes up, directly or indirectly, some ridiculous amout of employment - something like 20%.

As far as "barely causing a ripple in the Thai economy" if you klicked out those living here on tourist or Ed visas - ever give a thought to really just how many people that would be? The numbers are huge.

Not everyone here is over 50 years of age and living here on a retirement visa, but are still self funded and legitimate.

What would you consider the numbers to be?

Even at a very generous 500,000 mis-using Ed or Tourist visas, that would only be 2.5% of tourist numbers

1,000,000 would be 5% of tourist numbers

I doubt the numbers are anywhere near that

Effect it would have on the Thai economy? Negligible

I would consider the numbers to be staggering. Visa runs are a huge industry here.

If the effect on the Thai economy would be "negligible" - why not close the loop holes, overnight, and do away with "tourists" like me????

Answer is - MONEY, and big money, not to mention those supporting Issan families.

[Baerboxer]

Good. More than abused the loophole, its being raped.

It is not a loophole for me, it is the only available visa option.

I am a self funded retiree who is not yet 50 years old.

I have no intention of marrying, starting a business, or investing 10 million in a condo.

I am a millionaire, in US dollars, but Thailand doesn't want me because I am not fifty years old.

Hmmm...better start reviewing those threads on PI and Cambo...

Are you actually regularly studying? If so fine. If not then you actually prove the point. You are playing the system and taking advantage of a visa for education that has been a "loophole" used by many. Your wording suggests you use this visa to stay here, rather than actually being a student.

Immigration aren't stupid and have tolerated this to the point where the system is being too abused now. So they clamp down and the real students suffer.

Lucky you, being a $ millionaire. Maybe you could consider the investor routes to stay?

[Baerboxer]

OK...can any of you explain why so many people, of here, are against this ED visa "loophole" does it hurt you, does it hurt Thailand, does it hurt anyone...just what is the problem with you people.

It's just being abused by the wrong type of people. Russian hookers and other illegal workers use it as a easy means of stay, in most cases it just cheaper and easier than other visa options as others have indicated but this just invites crime and scum.

Not all people are abusing it but unfortunately it gets ruined for the genuine people here to study whatever.

I'd like to see some evidence to prove your point, as for Russian "hookers" all the ones I've seen arrested are released after showing work permits as "actresses.," clear these "ladies" are not on ED visas. As for other "illegal" works, well they are here, but no only on ED visas. So, I still await a reason for peoples problem with this "loophole."

Where did you see all these Russian whores arrested and then released because they have valid visas and work permits showing them to be actresses ? Did you witness this yourself? If it was read can you provide references please.

You answer your own question. The Ed visa is intended for students - i.e. people studying something. Loopholes are not designed into the system to accomodate people who find this an easy and convenient way of staying in Thailand. Immigration have tolerated this for some time, but those exploiting the loophole have become to numerous and in some cases not abiding by other laws. So, the rules get enforced and the loophole closed.

The people fictitiously staying on Ed visas, and not actually really studying, have no real right to that visa. They are pretending, and telling a little white lie.

[FiftyTwo]

My point using Egypt was, when it nearly slipped into civil war, as Thailand nearly did a couple of years ago (red shirt / yellow shirt - 90 shot dead by the Thai army) - one of Egypt's biggest earners, tourism, went down, overnight. Similar to the tsunami hitting Phuket.

Tourism may not be a great deal of the Thai GDP - but it makes up, directly or indirectly, some ridiculous amout of employment - something like 20%.

As far as "barely causing a ripple in the Thai economy" if you klicked out those living here on tourist or Ed visas - ever give a thought to really just how many people that would be? The numbers are huge.

Not everyone here is over 50 years of age and living here on a retirement visa, but are still self funded and legitimate.

What would you consider the numbers to be?

Even at a very generous 500,000 mis-using Ed or Tourist visas, that would only be 2.5% of tourist numbers

1,000,000 would be 5% of tourist numbers

I doubt the numbers are anywhere near that

Effect it would have on the Thai economy? Negligible

Someone using 2 weeks on entry by land would count as 26 tourists each year.

If 500k were doing that 26 times a year that would be 65% of tourist numbers.

Edited October 13, 2013 by FiftyTwo

[NamKangMan]

My point using Egypt was, when it nearly slipped into civil war, as Thailand nearly did a couple of years ago (red shirt / yellow shirt - 90 shot dead by the Thai army) - one of Egypt's biggest earners, tourism, went down, overnight. Similar to the tsunami hitting Phuket.

Tourism may not be a great deal of the Thai GDP - but it makes up, directly or indirectly, some ridiculous amout of employment - something like 20%.

As far as "barely causing a ripple in the Thai economy" if you klicked out those living here on tourist or Ed visas - ever give a thought to really just how many people that would be? The numbers are huge.

Not everyone here is over 50 years of age and living here on a retirement visa, but are still self funded and legitimate.

What would you consider the numbers to be?

Even at a very generous 500,000 mis-using Ed or Tourist visas, that would only be 2.5% of tourist numbers

1,000,000 would be 5% of tourist numbers

I doubt the numbers are anywhere near that

Effect it would have on the Thai economy? Negligible

Someone using 2 weeks on entry by land would count as 26 tourists each year.

If 500k were doing that 26 times a year that would be 65% of tourist numbers.

I'm just wondering if the Thai Government can actually differentiate between the real tourists and the expats living here on tourists visas?

As you say, I actually represent 4 tourist arrivals a year, and those living near a land boarder would represent 26 tourist arrivals each year - yet we are actually expats.

Apart from seeing visa after visa in one's passport, I wonder if the Thai Immigration data base can actually differentiate between a person getting a one off visa, like a backpacker, and someone like myself, living here on tourist visas.

If certain passport numbers are not "flagged" by the data base, possibly as someone entering into Thailand multiple times a year, the tourism arrival figures would be very inaccurate.

The tourism figures are probably inflated anyway, but "counting" expats doing visa runs, and possibly those on a retirement visa doing a re-entry, would not give a true picture of the tourism industry here.

[IrishIvan]

 

 

My point using Egypt was, when it nearly slipped into civil war, as Thailand nearly did a couple of years ago (red shirt / yellow shirt - 90 shot dead by the Thai army) - one of Egypt's biggest earners,  tourism, went down, overnight.  Similar to the tsunami hitting Phuket. 

 

Tourism may not be a great deal of the Thai GDP - but it makes up, directly or indirectly, some ridiculous amout of employment - something like 20%.

 

As far as "barely causing a ripple in the Thai economy" if you klicked out those living here on tourist or Ed visas - ever give a thought to really just how many people that would be?  The numbers are huge.

 

Not everyone here is over 50 years of age and living here on a retirement visa, but are still self funded and legitimate.

 

 

What would you consider the numbers to be?   

 

Even at a very generous 500,000 mis-using Ed or Tourist visas, that would only be 2.5% of tourist numbers

1,000,000 would be 5% of tourist numbers

I doubt the numbers are anywhere near that

 

Effect it would have on the Thai economy?  Negligible

 

Someone using 2 weeks on entry by land would count as 26 tourists each year.

If 500k were doing that 26 times a year that would be 65% of tourist numbers.

 

 

I'm just wondering if the Thai Government can actually differentiate between the real tourists and the expats living here on tourists visas?

 

As you say, I actually represent 4 tourist arrivals a year, and those living near a land boarder would represent 26 tourist arrivals each year - yet we are actually expats.

 

Apart from seeing visa after visa in one's passport, I wonder if the Thai Immigration data base can actually differentiate between a person getting a one off visa, like a backpacker, and someone like myself, living here on tourist visas.

 

If certain passport numbers are not "flagged" by the data base, possibly as someone entering into Thailand multiple times a year, the tourism arrival figures would be very inaccurate. 

 

The tourism figures are probably inflated anyway, but "counting" expats doing visa runs, and possibly those on a retirement visa doing a re-entry, would not give a true picture of the tourism industry here. 

Of course if a back packer comes once for one month in February and then returns in September that represents 2 tourists. How hard is that to work out?

[falkan]

so how did the meeting go? any news? tea money got up? extension up to 6 months?

[NamKangMan]

@ IrishIvan

Of course that's 2 tourist arrivals, but a backpacker isn't living here, and may never come back.

My question is, I'm wondering, other than physically flicking through the pages of the passport, if the Thai Immigration data base, by passport number, can tell those that are living here on tourist visas.

If it can, than the Thai Government would have accurate figures in relation to their tourism industry.

If not, their tourism arrival figures are totally inaccurate, even if they are trying to be accurate.

Edited October 14, 2013 by NamKangMan

[Paangjang]

Good. More than abused the loophole, its being raped.

It is not a loophole for me, it is the only available visa option.

I am a self funded retiree who is not yet 50 years old.

I have no intention of marrying, starting a business, or investing 10 million in a condo.

I am a millionaire, in US dollars, but Thailand doesn't want me because I am not fifty years old.

Hmmm...better start reviewing those threads on PI and Cambo...

Its the "cheapest option", its not the "only" option for millionaires like you

Neither is Phuket, or Thailand, for that matter.

Why would a millionair want to live in cambodia? Are you one of those?...

[IrishIvan]

@ IrishIvan

 

Of course that's 2 tourist arrivals, but a backpacker isn't living here, and may never come back.

 

My question is, I'm wondering, other than physically flicking through the pages of the passport, if the Thai Immigration data base, by passport number, can tell those that are living here on tourist visas. 

 

If it can, than the Thai Government would have accurate figures in relation to their tourism industry. 

 

If not, their tourism arrival figures are totally inaccurate, even if they are trying to be accurate.

No its totally accurate. If the backpacker stays for 2 months at the beginning of the year and 2 months at the end of the year. He has lived here for 4 months of the year. But he is still the same as 2 tourist entries. The only way you say if the database could be accurate is if they did a name check and see if someone of the same name has entered twice. But its still 2 tourist entries.

I consider myself a tourist that enters more than 6 times a year

[NamKangMan]

@ Paangjang

Maybe a "millionaire" in US Dollars, living in Thailand, might consider living in Cambodia, so he can feel like a multi-millionaire.

[NamKangMan]

@ IrishIvan

Of course that's 2 tourist arrivals, but a backpacker isn't living here, and may never come back.

My question is, I'm wondering, other than physically flicking through the pages of the passport, if the Thai Immigration data base, by passport number, can tell those that are living here on tourist visas.

If it can, than the Thai Government would have accurate figures in relation to their tourism industry.

If not, their tourism arrival figures are totally inaccurate, even if they are trying to be accurate.

No its totally accurate. If the backpacker stays for 2 months at the beginning of the year and 2 months at the end of the year. He has lived here for 4 months of the year. But he is still the same as 2 tourist entries. The only way you say if the database could be accurate is if they did a name check and see if someone of the same name has entered twice. But its still 2 tourist entries.

I consider myself a tourist that enters more than 6 times a year

I see your point, but if they were to start to reject people like the OP, myself, and yourself, for that matter - I can see no other option than to live outside of Thailand until I'm 50 years of age.

I know there are other "structures" that can be set up, but how long before they draw the same attention?

If they ever did start rejecting under 50's, I wonder just how many visas/days they would say is acceptable, per year.

[monkeycountry]

Just out of curiosity. Why is it so important to get rid of people under 50 who just want to stay here, and can afford to do nothing?

It is not like you are a burden on the system as you get no benefits from Thailand. I can understand they want to make sure people can afford to stay here, but that is easy and can be done the same way as with retirees. A simple proof of funds in a bank or similar.

Thailand seems to love tourists spending their money on a 2 week holiday, so why try to get rid of "tourists" who are so wealthy they can afford a permanent holiday?

[IrishIvan]

Just out of curiosity. Why is it so important to get rid of people under 50 who just want to stay here, and can afford to do nothing?

It is not like you are a burden on the system as you get no benefits from Thailand. I can understand they want to make sure people can afford to stay here, but that is easy and can be done the same way as with retirees. A simple proof of funds in a bank or similar.

Thailand seems to love tourists spending their money on a 2 week holiday, so why try to get rid of "tourists" who are so wealthy they can afford a permanent holiday?

You can just get a non immigrant B visa and stay 15 months in the country. You just need to report every 3 months. No need to lie and get a student visa if your not going to study. Siam Legal offers this visa. Its quite cheap too. 20000 baht from memory

[Shot]

Just out of curiosity. Why is it so important to get rid of people under 50 who just want to stay here, and can afford to do nothing?

It is not like you are a burden on the system as you get no benefits from Thailand. I can understand they want to make sure people can afford to stay here, but that is easy and can be done the same way as with retirees. A simple proof of funds in a bank or similar.

Thailand seems to love tourists spending their money on a 2 week holiday, so why try to get rid of "tourists" who are so wealthy they can afford a permanent holiday?

You can just get a non immigrant B visa and stay 15 months in the country. You just need to report every 3 months. No need to lie and get a student visa if your not going to study. Siam Legal offers this visa. Its quite cheap too. 20000 baht from memory

Correct. However, very hard to get back to back if you have not made an investment of some sort after 15 months. At least that was my experience.

[monkeycountry]

Just out of curiosity. Why is it so important to get rid of people under 50 who just want to stay here, and can afford to do nothing?

It is not like you are a burden on the system as you get no benefits from Thailand. I can understand they want to make sure people can afford to stay here, but that is easy and can be done the same way as with retirees. A simple proof of funds in a bank or similar.

Thailand seems to love tourists spending their money on a 2 week holiday, so why try to get rid of "tourists" who are so wealthy they can afford a permanent holiday?

You can just get a non immigrant B visa and stay 15 months in the country. You just need to report every 3 months. No need to lie and get a student visa if your not going to study. Siam Legal offers this visa. Its quite cheap too. 20000 baht from memory

I believe that is a business visa right? To get that I think you need a socalled WP3 first, which is confirmation from an employer that you have a job waiting, and you are supposed to get a WP once you get the visa. If that is correct, then Siam Legal probably just make a WP3 claiming the applicant is going to work for them, a little white lie which explains the 20k?

Anyway, if it is a business visa, then you are still lying/cheating in order to stay here, and may have trouble getting the visa renewed after 15 months if you do not have a job and WP by then?

So the question still stands, why not let relatively wealthy people stay as long as they want, without them having to invest, work, study etc?

[stevenl]

Just out of curiosity. Why is it so important to get rid of people under 50 who just want to stay here, and can afford to do nothing?

It is not like you are a burden on the system as you get no benefits from Thailand. I can understand they want to make sure people can afford to stay here, but that is easy and can be done the same way as with retirees. A simple proof of funds in a bank or similar.

Thailand seems to love tourists spending their money on a 2 week holiday, so why try to get rid of "tourists" who are so wealthy they can afford a permanent holiday?

You can just get a non immigrant B visa and stay 15 months in the country. You just need to report every 3 months. No need to lie and get a student visa if your not going to study. Siam Legal offers this visa. Its quite cheap too. 20000 baht from memory

Quite a few business consultants offer this, which is of course illegal.

[IrishIvan]

 

Just out of curiosity. Why is it so important to get rid of people under 50 who just want to stay here, and can afford to do nothing?

It is not like you are a burden on the system as you get no benefits from Thailand. I can understand they want to make sure people can afford to stay here, but that is easy and can be done the same way as with retirees. A simple proof of funds in a bank or similar.

Thailand seems to love tourists spending their money on a 2 week holiday, so why try to get rid of "tourists" who are so wealthy they can afford a permanent holiday?

You can just get a non immigrant B visa and stay 15 months in the country. You just need to report every 3 months. No need to lie and get a student visa if your not going to study. Siam Legal offers this visa. Its quite cheap too. 20000 baht from memory

 

Quite a few business consultants offer this, which is of course illegal.

So is buying real estate, prostitution and obtaining a student visa without the intention of studying. Its just some things are more illegal than others

[NamKangMan]

Just out of curiosity. Why is it so important to get rid of people under 50 who just want to stay here, and can afford to do nothing?

It is not like you are a burden on the system as you get no benefits from Thailand. I can understand they want to make sure people can afford to stay here, but that is easy and can be done the same way as with retirees. A simple proof of funds in a bank or similar.

Thailand seems to love tourists spending their money on a 2 week holiday, so why try to get rid of "tourists" who are so wealthy they can afford a permanent holiday?

You can just get a non immigrant B visa and stay 15 months in the country. You just need to report every 3 months. No need to lie and get a student visa if your not going to study. Siam Legal offers this visa. Its quite cheap too. 20000 baht from memory

I believe that is a business visa right? To get that I think you need a socalled WP3 first, which is confirmation from an employer that you have a job waiting, and you are supposed to get a WP once you get the visa. If that is correct, then Siam Legal probably just make a WP3 claiming the applicant is going to work for them, a little white lie which explains the 20k?

Anyway, if it is a business visa, then you are still lying/cheating in order to stay here, and may have trouble getting the visa renewed after 15 months if you do not have a job and WP by then?

So the question still stands, why not let relatively wealthy people stay as long as they want, without them having to invest, work, study etc?

Like I said, I am aware of some "structures" that can be set up to allow under 50's to live here, but they are, technically, illegal.

So answer your question, "why not let relatively wealthy people stay as long as they want, without them having to invest, work, study etc?" Who knows?

I'm not too far away from 50 years of age. Absolutely nothing will change in my financial situation the day I turn 50. All that will change is I would then qualify, by age, not by finances, for a retirement visa.

Like I say, visa runs for those wealthy enough to live here, and be under 50 years of age, is a big money industry, and, is a nice little prop up to the tourist arrival statistics as well.

[falkan]

another meeting tomorrow about student visas at 10.00 down at immigration..

rumors says its about chalong school vs rawai school but now effecting every school in phuket..

[NamKangMan]

another meeting tomorrow about student visas at 10.00 down at immigration..

rumors says its about chalong school vs rawai school but now effecting every school in phuket..

Any update from this meeting?

[stevenl]

another meeting tomorrow about student visas at 10.00 down at immigration..

rumors says its about chalong school vs rawai school but now effecting every school in phuket..

Any update from this meeting?

See here, http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/675544-phuket-immigration-new-detailed-form-to-monitor-education-visa-holders/

[Welshboy89]

NKM

Yes. I think that you are right. Probably cheaper especially if you snag some promo air fares with Air Asia. And of course, you don't have to worry about 90 day reporting.

Can you please tell me what countries/embassies issue the 60 day tourist visa and how much is the fee. Where have you been to get them in the past?

I always get the promo or "on sale" airfares when AirAsia advertise them, because you know, to the day, when you have to leave. If there is a festival, or a friend's birthday etc - I may leave a week or two before my visa expires.

All Thai Embassies, all around the world, issue the 60 day visas to Thailand.

Obviously, you want a Thai Embassy that is nearby and easy to get to. In the past, they may have been not so easy to get to, but I have gone anyway, just to have a look around and do the tourist things in that particular city.

What I do is no secret. There are many other foreigners doing this. Sometimes there are long ques.

That's why I say "visa runs" are a big industry. They generate employment and turn over billions of baht. There are many people living here on tourist visas.

The "system" keeps no one out, but just takes their money, regularly. I think that's all it's designed to do. Even the Central Goverment get my 700 baht airport exit tax.

Anyway, Penang - Malaysia is the easiest visa run, but also Kuala Lumpur, Phnom Penh in Cambodia, Ho Chi Minh City in Vietnam (but you have to organise a Vietnam visa for this) there is Vientiane - Laos (I found this Thai Embassy to be the worse for ques, probably because of many foreigners living in issan use this Embassy) there is Singapore (probably the most expensive, but a First World nation)

These are the main places you should look at for visa runs. The popular ones are where you don't pay for a visa on arrival and where you only get an entry stamp, not a visa taking up a whole page in your passport. For this reason, Malaysia is popular.

I have been to Myanmar (Burma) but not for a visa run, purely as a tourist, but maybe Myanmar will be easier to get to in the future, so will be open for visa runs.

As for not worrying about 90 day reporting, in a way, you have to "report" just before the 60 days to pay your 1900 baht for your 30 day extension. Well, you don't have to, you can leave on day 60, but that's more "runs" in the year.

The visa cist is around $40US. Laos, Cambodia and Vietnam run the dual currency system. That is, their local currency and also US Dollars, but the Thai Embassy prefers US Dollars as they do not want to lose on any exchange rate of the local, volitile currency.

Hope this helps. Ask around, you will meet many others guys doing this type of visa run because there is either what I am doing, or what you are doing. These are the only options if you are under 50 years of age, and, in my opinion, as mentioned, the Thai's know it, and have used it to create a money making industry.

Just out of interest, how many tourist visas can you have in your passport before it looks suspicious?

[HooHaa]

Good. More than abused the loophole, its being raped.

It is not a loophole for me, it is the only available visa option.

I am a self funded retiree who is not yet 50 years old.

I have no intention of marrying, starting a business, or investing 10 million in a condo.

I am a millionaire, in US dollars, but Thailand doesn't want me because I am not fifty years old.

Hmmm...better start reviewing those threads on PI and Cambo...

it is a loophole. with your self professed millions there are most certainly other options that would entitle you to stay and probably at a cost similar to a year of language lessons.

you however prefer excuses.

[stevenl]

Good. More than abused the loophole, its being raped.

It is not a loophole for me, it is the only available visa option.

I am a self funded retiree who is not yet 50 years old.

I have no intention of marrying, starting a business, or investing 10 million in a condo.

I am a millionaire, in US dollars, but Thailand doesn't want me because I am not fifty years old.

Hmmm...better start reviewing those threads on PI and Cambo...

it is a loophole. with your self professed millions there are most certainly other options that would entitle you to stay and probably at a cost similar to a year of language lessons.

you however prefer excuses.

He was in 2013

[Somtamnication]

Funny story. I was at immigration last week. A Korean acquaintance of mine had an ed visa from a language school. She was drilled, in English, by that horrible sgt whatshisname. He usually has a bluetooth hanging down from an ear. He drilled her so loud, she could not answer his questions in English.

Now you know its bad when a Thai drills a foreigner in Englisheeeee!

[Kaalle]

Yes its terrible that people who want to stay here take advantage of a system that is corrupt, broken, and dysfunctional. Everything else in the country is corrupt, broken and dysfunctional, but if expats just get the proper visa it will make everything ok.

[balo]

Good. More than abused the loophole, its being raped.

It is not a loophole for me, it is the only available visa option.

I am a self funded retiree who is not yet 50 years old.

I have no intention of marrying, starting a business, or investing 10 million in a condo.

I am a millionaire, in US dollars, but Thailand doesn't want me because I am not fifty years old.

Hmmm...better start reviewing those threads on PI and Cambo...

If you're a millionaire in US dollars why havent you applied for the 5 year Elite Visa a long time ago ?

I am sure you can afford the fees starting at 500000 baht.

Edited October 13, 2014 by balo

[Old Croc]

Good. More than abused the loophole, its being raped.

It is not a loophole for me, it is the only available visa option.

I am a self funded retiree who is not yet 50 years old.

I have no intention of marrying, starting a business, or investing 10 million in a condo.

I am a millionaire, in US dollars, but Thailand doesn't want me because I am not fifty years old.

Hmmm...better start reviewing those threads on PI and Cambo...

If you're a millionaire in US dollars why havent you applied for the 5 year Elite Visa a long time ago ?

I am sure you can afford the fees starting at 500000 baht.

Don't expect an answer. Phronesis last posted over a year ago.

I think he decided this wasn't the place to invest his fortune and left.