In Defence of Pattaya and in defiance to the Haters

[Sigurris]

There is a hardcore of haters on this Forum who delight in trashing Pattaya and its residents. The common factor is always the sex industry. The number of times I see comments that say all (or most) people come to Pattaya for the sex is uncountable. That Pattaya has nothing to offer other than sex. That anyone who lives in Pattaya is a degenerate, a criminal or a lowlife. The beaches are filthy. Crime rates. And, most recently, someone who states that Thai people are ashamed of Pattaya and wish it was not here. It is quite ironic that this was in a thread bashing Pattaya residents who think they know everything about the Thais (you know who you are and I look forward to reading more of your mindless diatribe here).

To start with, these broad-brush statements always remind me of a certain little Austrian who used similar statements to vilify a race of people and make himself and his supporters feel better about the fact that they were the lowlifes. It is always good to hate someone. It takes your mind off hating yourself.

That said, can I defend Pattaya? Is it the defence of the indefensible? Yes and No are the answers.

I am not stupid. There is a big sex industry here which attracts lots of sex tourists and lowlifes; and the sea around Pattaya is nasty. But that is true of a good many resorts around the world. What I want to do is look at Pattaya as a whole not through the microscope.

Let’s start with the city itself. With a population of around 500,000 (it could be a lot more) it is the fastest growing city in Thailand due, not to the sex industry, but to industry and its unique geography. We all know it has a huge bar industry that caters to sex tourists but that only accounts for a miniscule percentage of the workforce. So what are the other 495,000 people up to? Generally just normal people getting on with making a living. That goes for a good proportion of expats too. Some are involved in the bar business but a lot more are working in industry or other normal pursuits. Of course many are retired (see the piece in the Telegraph about retired couples) and enjoying retirement with or without paid for girls.

Pattaya has excellent shopping and entertainment of a non-sexual nature. Superb Cinemas, Bowling alleys, Zoo’s, restaurants, supermarkets, markets etc. etc. Two world class Waterparks will be opening this year and let us not forget that the concentration of excellent Golf courses is unparalleled in the world.

Why do Russians bring their families here? Because they can ignore the sex side and take advantage of the rest.

Who needs to go to Pattaya beach when, for 30 baht, you can take a ferry to the Islands and swim in crystal clear blue waters only 30-40 minutes away.

Why is it that every night Jomtien Beach Road is nose to tail with cars, all sporting Bangkok plates and filled with Thais? Could it be the excellent Seafood restaurants at the end of the road? After the floods in Bangkok last year the Thais have just kept coming. They see Pattaya very differently to the haters. 90 minutes’ drive and they are here. It is easy, inexpensive and fun. Perhaps I don’t know the right people but the Thai’s I do know who live and work in Bangkok tell a very different story to what I read about them hating what Pattaya does to their reputation. They love it.

Hua Hin is mentioned as a nice seaside resort, and it is. But behind the Hilton are streets full of bars selling sex openly (there is even a Lolita’s blow job bar) so it is not squeaky clean is it? And I don’t need to mention Phuket and all its problems. At least in Pattaya I can travel 10 kms by baht bus for 10 baht.

Sure there is crime here. I have not had any experience of it but then I don’t hang out in the places where it happens. And the reality of it is that most of it is Thai on Thai crime. Sure idiots who pick up ladyboys and girls on the beach get robbed but that is a reality when you go into that world anywhere.

I am not sure where else in Thailand I can watch a Polo match, visit a vineyard eat great Thai food for 30 baht and superb international food (for a lot more!) and go windsurfing all in a day. Obviously I would have to get up early!!

And finally as I sit on my balcony watching the fishing boats I would add one further thing in defence of Pattaya. I am not using my air con as I get a constant sea breeze. There is not a lot nicer than the smell of the ocean and a breeze to cool me down.

Hate all you want but whether this is the real Thailand or not it is MY version of Thailand and I like it.

[jmccarty]

You tell em!

I like it here too, not any more vice here in my life than when I lived in Singapore.

Sitting on the beach at Royal Varuna Yacht Club or Infiniti in the Sheraton, or in the restaurant overlooking the golf course at Siam Country Club Plantation Course, or down the road at Silver Lake vinyard...what's to nay say about it? Many, many more places and things to do here and in the area.

[mancub]

Who wants to live the near the ocean , yet have to commute 1 hr each way to the beach ...only to share it with 20,000 Chinese ???

If the OP believes that only 1% of the population is involved with the sex industry ,then I would query his maths .

Pattaya is generally cheap and seedy , which is what attracts most of it's patrons ,Russians included .

Thais like to go there to watch the Farang freak show ...and also shop - I'll concede that .

Anywhere can be "amazing" if you can afford to live very comfortably and distance yourself from the reality of your surroundings .

[Jasun]

People visit Pattaya for the shopping malls and bowling alleys about as much as they read Playboy magazine for the articles. Don't get me wrong, I love Pattaya. I love the neon, the strap-ons, the dodgy characters and watching the sunset over a grimy sea. I empathise with the residents who hate being tarred with the same sexpat brush as the perverts who are there for nothing else, but hedonism is in the city's DNA. Yes, there is great food, great weather, beautiful golf courses and lovely quiet communities in which to live. But the same could be said for just about everywhere in Thailand, or south east asia for that matter. Take away the trashy beach and the bars and you take away what makes the place unique.

[Soutpeel]

A well written OP, but one comment..

Pattaya has a beach ?....

Edited October 10, 2013 by Soutpeel

[MrWorldwide]

mancub, if there is one thing that shines through in the Pattaya forum on this board, its that many who live in close proximity to the 'strip' that constitutes what most folk consider 'Pattaya' can still laugh about the insanity of it all. I'm sorry, but I just cant say the same for many of the BKK brigade on TV, particularly those who seem to have a holier-than-thou axe to grind. I don't know if its the traffic, or their jobs, or what, but Bangkok seems to grind people down. Again, that's wild speculation based on random observations of anonymous postings on an internet forum, but is it any more speculative than declaring everyone who chooses Pattaya as a retirement destination a 'sexpat' ?

[MrWorldwide]

A well written OP, but one comment..

Pattaya has a beach ?....

Oddly, its one of only two things I really dislike about Patts - the beach-chair industry, the maniacs driving powerboats and the fact that the environment is a disgrace. The other is that endless loop of traffic in central Pattaya, but that is only going to get worse. Hua Hin's beaches are better, but I havent seen anything in Asia to compare to the surf beaches I grew up alongside in Sydney (Bondi, Maroubra, Cronulla).

The rest of the distractions - tourists, old blokes walking hand-in-hand with young girls, girls screeching 'Heloooo' etc - these are no worse than dodging Arabs in Bangkok and I just dont see why so many TVers get so hot under the collar about them. If the Thais wanted to 'clean up' Pattaya, they would have done it decades ago - clearly, there is way too much money to be made. C'est La Vie.

[mancub]

mancub, if there is one thing that shines through in the Pattaya forum on this board, its that many who live in close proximity to the 'strip' that constitutes what most folk consider 'Pattaya' can still laugh about the insanity of it all. I'm sorry, but I just cant say the same for many of the BKK brigade on TV, particularly those who seem to have a holier-than-thou axe to grind. I don't know if its the traffic, or their jobs, or what, but Bangkok seems to grind people down. Again, that's wild speculation based on random observations of anonymous postings on an internet forum, but is it any more speculative than declaring everyone who chooses Pattaya as a retirement destination a 'sexpat' ?

Not sure what you're getting at here ....?

The term "sexpat" was never mentioned by me .I suspect ,however, that the raunchy reputation was what originally attracted many of the expat residents ,as I'll freely admit it did myself ! I've visited many times and even managed a game of golf on occasion with friends who do live there .No-one can convince me that it's such a great place to live though !

The sex industry in Pattaya is hardly confined to "the strip" as you refer to it , unless you mean everywhere from Naklua to Jomtien and beyond .

I live in Krabi ,so I'm not one of the "BKK brigade ".

[cpofc]

Hey youse blokes! I live in Bangkok, but I am certainly not part of any Brigade! Not my style.

No tourists where I live! Bangkok is a big place. What your are comparing here is Walking Street and Soi Nana.

Whatever floats your boat.

Personally, I don't want to live in a tourist area, or in an Ex Pat Enclave in, near or around one, I could have stayed at home and gone to the Gold Coast or Kings Cross. Maybe even Kuta, Bali.

Personal choice.

All this arguing about my piece of 'paradise' is better than your's is rather puerile really.

[Sigurris]

I hope I haven't given the impression that I think my world is better than anyone elses. My point is that where I live is a multi faceted place with a lot more than just sex. It suits me and it suits alot of other people too. I have lived in Bangkok and also Kanchanaburi (one year and two years respectively). Each has their charms and drawbacks.

I originally moved here, reluctantly, for work. Reluctant because I thought, like so many others, that Pattaya was just about sex. It took very little time to find out that it had a lot more to it than that. I count myself lucky that I have been able to afford a good standard of life and I can insulate myself from the nastier end of the city, just as I was able to do when I lived in London.

I live 50 metres from the beach but never go in it. I swim every day in the pool and when I do go in the sea it is out at the islands (again I am lucky to have a couple of friends with speedboats). But I love looking at the sea in the mornings with a cup of tea and watching the storm clouds gather in the evening and race in to give us a soaking.

Whatever you think of our fair city it is here, it is not going away and it is getting to be a better and better place to live. None of us are conscripts and your slice of paradise is exactly that. Yours. I have just read about a Brit living in the boonies ekeing out a living as a farmer. He is a truly happy man in his paradise. Just as he would not swap my life for his I would not want his. One mans paradise is another mans hell. But that guy has never told me I am a sexpat and lowlife for living where I do so I hope his paradise remains so forever. And may yours remain so too.

[nong38]

It was my first port of call on my first visit to Thailand, I came with 2 married couples and I found it a place I could get on with, I came once more alone and the third time I headed up country.

Pattaya gets bad press alround, from punters to travel guides but when you take people there and dont go in the naughty parts they have to admit its not what they expected at all and they would come back for the normal things of life.

I live up country with my wife, we visit 3 or 4 times a year and although I offer a change of scene she likes to go to Patters, she knows where things are, where she likes to shop ( did I say that!) eat, stay and swim. It ok, if you want the adult stuff its there, if you dont you dont go down those areas and even if we do walk there we are never bothered.

Its bright, brash and noisy, the opposite to where we live, so we look forward to coming everytime and to going home afterwards, but, as Arnie said "I 'll ( in our case we'll) be back."

People who knock it dont know it, we have some great times there and lots more to come.

Edited October 10, 2013 by nong38

[nong38]

I hope I haven't given the impression that I think my world is better than anyone elses. My point is that where I live is a multi faceted place with a lot more than just sex. It suits me and it suits alot of other people too. I have lived in Bangkok and also Kanchanaburi (one year and two years respectively). Each has their charms and drawbacks.

I originally moved here, reluctantly, for work. Reluctant because I thought, like so many others, that Pattaya was just about sex. It took very little time to find out that it had a lot more to it than that. I count myself lucky that I have been able to afford a good standard of life and I can insulate myself from the nastier end of the city, just as I was able to do when I lived in London.

I live 50 metres from the beach but never go in it. I swim every day in the pool and when I do go in the sea it is out at the islands (again I am lucky to have a couple of friends with speedboats). But I love looking at the sea in the mornings with a cup of tea and watching the storm clouds gather in the evening and race in to give us a soaking.

Whatever you think of our fair city it is here, it is not going away and it is getting to be a better and better place to live. None of us are conscripts and your slice of paradise is exactly that. Yours. I have just read about a Brit living in the boonies ekeing out a living as a farmer. He is a truly happy man in his paradise. Just as he would not swap my life for his I would not want his. One mans paradise is another mans hell. But that guy has never told me I am a sexpat and lowlife for living where I do so I hope his paradise remains so forever. And may yours remain so too.

Very well put. Patters is what you make it.

[Shotime]

I used to go to play golf there every week. However, I haven't been there in years. The last time I was there, an overwhelming wave of (how you say?) paranoia swept over me. It was a very evil vibe.

[Emdog]

The beach chairs and corruption are a blight, no argument there. I live in Jomtien for a long time. Seems bashers are the sort who didn't listen to my mama "Don't try to build yourself up by cutting other's down". You don't like Pattaya, fine. Don't come. I find it amusing. Saw interview with Iggy Pop once on CNN where he was showing his town, Miami: "It's a sunny town full of shady people". HAHA

[hansnl]

I do not live in Pattaya.

I have been sightseeing there three times.

That was it........................

[thaidel48]

The sex industry is everywhere, lowlifes, are everywhere, crime is everywhere. What I dislike about Pattaya is the bad roads , the price gouging, the noise near the beach , the ever present dust away from the beach and the Falang ghetto's all over but that also goes for Chiang Mai, Sukhumvit , Phuket and many other places.

It does'nt matter where you are in the world where ever you get a gathering of tourists it ends up the same. Damn shame but true , sigh.

[jayceenik]

For me Pattaya is as near to paradise as can be.

If only they put seats on the new beach Promenade it'd be even closer ...

[Dararasmi]

All of a sudden I'm Hitler. Didn't expect that when I rolled out of bed this morning.

[Pinot]

"To start with, these broad-brush statements always remind me of a certain little Austrian who used similar statements to vilify a race of people and make himself and his supporters feel better about the fact that they were the lowlifes."

People who hate Patts are Nazis? Come on, the place is a dump.

[KuhnPaen]

I have an apartment in Hwai Khwang, BKK. That said, it has (on a much smaller level) many of the same things that make Pattaya so seedy. Everywhere I go there are massage venues--huge, towering monoliths like Poseidon, and traffic galore. I live here because it's cheap rent, close to the MRT, etc. Basically, this is just where I ended up after I had a falling out with the GF. I suppose I could live anywhere in LOS, and I often think about pulling up stakes and heading up to Chiang Mai, down to Krabi, or even an island. I never think about Pattaya though--mainly because I know it would destroy me. I would rather live 90 minutes from Sodom, than live in Sodom itself.

In my other home--Los Angeles--I live as you do (in a beachfront condo with a wonderful ocean breeze). I suppose I could draw a parallel to why I don't live in Hollywood (the Pattaya of Los Angeles). Meaning it is nice to be near enough to the bedlam without being part of it on a daily basis. Saying nearly everyone in Pattaya is involved in the sex trade is kind of like saying nearly everyone in Hollywood is part of the film industry. While that isn't necessarily true, it is the image most people have. Ironically (or is that coincidence?), the worlds ONLY "Thai Town" is in East Hollyood. Hollywood being home to the largest Thai expat population in the world. Did the Thais settle in Hollywood because of the "image" they had of it? Or was it because of it's "amenities"? You don't see many Thais taking part in the Hollywood scene. Like farangs in Thailand, they tend to stay in Thai Town. So maybe someday Thailand will have the worlds only "Farang Town". Methinks the proper place to get that distinction will be Pattaya.

Like the Thais in Thai Town, the farangs in Farang Town will create (and already have to a degree) their own insular little world, where they can do everything they used to do in the West, within the protective, magical circle they have drawn around a once sleepy, seaside village.

I have still not found, or settled in "my own private Thailand". I don't know when or where that will be. The closest I came was living in Sisaket or 2 years. I would rather play Robinson Crusoe in the boonies than settle for the chaos of Bangkok or Pattaya. That is why I came to LOS in the first place--to escape the West. In Pattaya, the West never truly leaves you, nor you it.

The bottom line remains that Pattaya is a microcosm of the West, only with readily available sex, better weather, and an ocean. Kind of why people leave Chicago for LA--like I did.

[jack1964]

I love the place. My Thai wife loves Pattaya. 5 years ago she told me that Thai people don't like Pattaya, but she now concedes that times have changed. Thai people rediscovered Pattaya because of the floods in BKK a couple of years back, and are now choosing it as their new home away from home. Just look at the amount of Thai people buying condo's in Pattaya now. I recently bought into a new condo project in Wongamat, and the developer is charging Thai's the same prices as foreigners, purely due to the demand. The city is growing, it is also growing up, and in 15 or 20 years time, who knows, we might just be the hip place to be, the hub, the destination. Yes, we love Pattaya.....Every city has it's good and bad. I prefer to reflect on our good. I'm in bed by 10 pm most nights anyway....I snore through all the bad.

[Wimbledon]

I have no gripes with Pattaya .I am considering to live as close to ocean as possible . i sort of like Naklua . but their is jomtien and Pratamak .Hope to hear from these 3 Areas , people who have knowledge and pros and cons of each . Thanks NAKLUA, JOMTIEN, AND PRATAMAK

[arthurwait]

While I agree with your points. I don't think the population is anywhere near 500 K I believe it is smaller than Chonburi city whose population is about 250k - 300k .

5000 people work in the sex trade in Pattaya ? Not sure if that should be higher and plenty of the other businesses cater for the sex tourists/pats.

The Bangkok number plates they could also be checking on their land and investments as so much of Pattaya is owned by Bangkok and Chonburi Thai - Chinese residents. And of course the shopping and hotels. Dusit Pattaya is raved about by Thais.

And most importantly Lolitas in Hua Hin has gone.

But yes Hua Hin is a sex pats/tourists resort just like Phuket , but both pretend not to be.

[Card]

I live in wonderful Bangkok but own a condo in Jomtien and visit about 4 nights a month. I love the range of restaurants and cheap food there but that's about it. 2 nights at a time is about my limit, but enjoy it all the same - could never live there. Why? Because it is a Disneyworld of fake fun. It is actually a boring place after a while - fit for visits only. All the Thais are there for is to make money out of tourists - and they do it tiresomely - you cannot come across a Thai without their making money in one way or another from you. And many, not all I agree, can be very rude. The farangs there are also rather singular in their characters. Sorry if that offends, but it won't stop me from making regular, if short, trips to the big cess. Oh, and shopping? I disagree , Pattaya is not good for shopping, unless you want cheap and fake goods from street stalls. Not my idea of shopping.

[DoctorG]

"To start with, these broad-brush statements always remind me of a certain little Austrian who used similar statements to vilify a race of people and make himself and his supporters feel better about the fact that they were the lowlifes."

People who hate Patts are Nazis? Come on, the place is a dump.

I agree that the above statement is a little over-the-top, but what the OP is saying is that you are perfectly entitled to not like, or even hate, Pattaya, but there is no need to keep going on about your hatred, and, by inference, your vilification of the people who choose to live there.

(I am not talking about you personally) OK?

[MZurf]

What I don't get are the people saying that Pattaya is not the "real" Thailand. If Pattaya is not the real Thailand then where is it? Do you have to be slipping in buffalo crap for it to be the "real" Thailand?

I guess the Muslim south is not the "real" Thailand, and by the same logic that would rule out the northern hill tribes as well.

Bangkok is obviously not the real deal so that leaves very limited areas.

[ABCer]

OP, defend and defy whatever you like. I am not a Hater or a Defender, just an objective observer.

Here are some facts: About 7 years ago I moved to Thailand and stayed in a nice Pattaya/Jomtien hotel for 3 months.

Thus I know Pattaya.

It grows. The RE is appreciating. New condos, villages, shopping centers, shops, dealerships open.

There are no beaches in Pattaya/Jomtien - the sand has been sold to owners of millions of umbrellas and chaise longues.

In three months that I lived there I went once for a swim. 2 min later I was out - seen 2 condoms floating in water. Luckily both were tied in a knot, so there was no unwanted pregnancy.

Traffic in Pattaya is just as bad as in BKK.

Crime rate in Pattaya is higher than in BKK.

Prices for goods and services in Pattaya are higher than in BKK.

The %% of foreigners/population in Pattaya is the highest in SE Asia, reducing the pleasures of living in Thailand, Asia, or ... wherever... unless you are from Russia.

Now, if you didn't notice, I will point out that above are described pure facts without judgmental values. Let our members read and judge the facts.

As to your poetic description of the sea breezes, - I have it all and much more - the sandy beaches at my doorsteps, 11 islands in full view, crystal clear waters, view of the mountains, fishing vessels, sea breezes PLUS not a foreigner in sight!

Hope this doesn't make me a Hater... maybe just a Loner? But I do not suffer in any way and am not missing the bar scenes of BKK or Pattaya.

[Totster]

Pattaya is a shit hole.. get over it ! If you like living there, then that's great..live there. The OP sounds like he is trying to convince himself rather than the readers.

totster

[seajae]

this happens everywhere in the world, there are always those that want to run down somewhere they dont like and praise their own area. I live in Surat Thani and the people that keep knocking it simply have no idea because it is not what they want but is what I want. I am not interested in the bars/clubs or night life so it suits me. I have been to most bigger cities/towns in Thailand and although I always found things I liked(markets, sights, beaches etc) I would not live there because I simply found they didnt suit me. Looking at land in Trang at the moment, love it down there, quiet, not a lot of tourists or locals living close to you, nice beaches, good fishing and not a lot of night life, brilliant for me but I am sure a lot of you would hate it. Who cares, if you dont like it then dont live there but why do you have to rag anyone that does. We all know the faults of where we live we dont need any <deleted> repeatedly telling us because they just happen to dislike it, get a life and if you cant say anything nice about a place dont sat anything at all, we alrerady know the faults and anyone that has to keep repeating them has personal problems we dont need to listen to.

[stickylies]

Who wants to live the near the ocean , yet have to commute 1 hr each way to the beach ...only to share it with 20,000 Chinese ???

If the OP believes that only 1% of the population is involved with the sex industry ,then I would query his maths .

Pattaya is generally cheap and seedy , which is what attracts most of it's patrons ,Russians included .

Thais like to go there to watch the Farang freak show ...and also shop - I'll concede that .

Anywhere can be "amazing" if you can afford to live very comfortably and distance yourself from the reality of your surroundings .

I second that. Nearly all Thai i know will go to Pattaya for shopping AND to watch (and laugh with) farang with dam ("ugly") girls*. Oversized farang in singlets walking hand in hand with petite thai hookers, freaks with huge beer bellies, loud and drunk all moments of the day. Of course thai males enjoy watching Western girls/women in tops, bikinis, etc. too.

Anyway, a catch-question I have been asked numerous times is whether I like pattaya? When i say NO most locals who've asked show their true opinion (adverse) about pattaya. My neighbour and close friend says this about pattaya (no kiddin and not exagerated whatsoever): Farang chop look-gee dekdek. And plenty of thai think about it that way.

My point is: I don't say all people in Pattaya are lowlives. I'm only saying pattaya is a shithole and besides attracting sextourists, it caters to people who could also have stayed in Lloret del mar or Benidorm.

* NOT my opinion/view!

Edited October 11, 2013 by stickylies