Conundrum - When to retire? How much money is enough?

[FiftyTwo]

As for the kitchen & AC, they were completed & installed before the house was completed. For example, the AC ducting was installed in both the attic & space between the floors (2 story) before the ceilings were installed. I paid these in full before signing the final documents with the bank. The rest of the stuff we purchased all over Thailand ahead of time, usually with 50% deposit up front & the rest to be paid upon delivery. I purchased three Sealy bed sets for 160K baht, 15K-40K below normal price; to get the deal, I had to pay cash up front. In the case of some furniture we bought on sale in Bangkok, we had to pay the entire amount; in all cases, we delayed taking delivery until after move-in.

I bought a very large double bed and mattress for 6k5, and thought it was a bit overpriced.

3 beds for 160k!!!, how many beds can you sleep in at one time, and if you aren't sleeping in it, did you know Thais are happy with a rush mat on the floor?

Some foreigners are just foolish with money (a Thai told me that).

Edited October 13, 2013 by FiftyTwo

[SeabagsFull]

As for the kitchen & AC, they were completed & installed before the house was completed. For example, the AC ducting was installed in both the attic & space between the floors (2 story) before the ceilings were installed. I paid these in full before signing the final documents with the bank. The rest of the stuff we purchased all over Thailand ahead of time, usually with 50% deposit up front & the rest to be paid upon delivery. I purchased three Sealy bed sets for 160K baht, 15K-40K below normal price; to get the deal, I had to pay cash up front. In the case of some furniture we bought on sale in Bangkok, we had to pay the entire amount; in all cases, we delayed taking delivery until after move-in.

I bought a very large double bed and mattress for 6k5, and thought it was a bit overpriced.

3 beds for 160k!!!, how many beds can you sleep in at one time, and if you aren't sleeping in it, did you know Thais are happy with a rush mat on the floor?

Some foreigners are just foolish with money (a Thai told me that).

To FiftyTwo #122, "foolish" is judgmental; you simply cannot expect that everyone else will make the same choices that you do. Everyone has their preferences. 6,500 baht for a bed? You are obviously young &/or definitely don't have back problems. Yes, Thais can sleep with a rush mat on the floor, but I'm not Thai.

One of my VA disabilities is for having a bad back. Sealy bed sets are extremely expensive in Thailand. If you check them out during promotions in Robinsons, e.g., you'll pay around 60K-70K for a high-end King size mattress with box-springs. When I built my house, I outfitted the entire house which meant I needed three sets of bedroom furniture.

Eleven months after move-in, I ruptured three discs in my lower back & ended up with back surgery. Had I not had a Sealy, I don't know what I would have done.

[David48]

American ...Thailand

If it's not an impolite question ... what country do you live in at this present time?

[SeabagsFull]

American ...Thailand

If it's not an impolite question ... what country do you live in at this present time?

To David48 #127, my wife, newborn daughter, & I now live in Washington state in the U.S. This is way off topic, so perhaps you can help me to understand something. Can all ThaiVisa members access my profile? I mean no disrespect if the answer is yes. From the quality & quantity of your posts, I can tell you've been around for some time.

I only became a member in 2007 when I couldn't resist clarifying an IT misnomer posted by another member. Six & a half years later, & I've posted very few comments. Don't know why I'm suddenly on here a lot, but most of the comments are full of negativity, judgmental condemnations, & insincere youngsters (or grumpy old men) looking to pick a fight. Very few, it seems, are really empathetic to other people's points of view (e.g., just read the Dowries thread). Yet if I can help one person with info, then at least I'm doing my part to pay back what I've learned through ThaiVisa.

There is some good stuff appearing as topics, which has helped me from the beginning. As recently as a couple of months ago, I needed guidance regarding whether or not I needed to apply a Thai address to my daughter's Thai birth certificate application: George promptly answered me .

[bocceball1]

Seabagsfull....let me congratulate you and tell you "thank-you" for the services to your country. Your one of the few posters who has the "guts" to expose your life in your profile (something I didn't and won't do)....and well you should be proud! Sad thing is that when someone finds happiness (which it seems you have) all the little green men come out (jealousy) and in their simplistic way of thinking believe by picking at you they are building themselves up...TV seems to be the only life they have...David48 seems to be one of the few good ones...insightful topics and thoughtful posts.....haven't been a TV member long ...but you also seem to be one of the good ones....stick it out....I'd say welcome ...but you've been here a lot longer than I have...Good luck

[metisdead]

Off topic posts have been removed.

[GuestHouse]

Seabagsfull, thank you for your contribution in this thread - it poses a question which I'm going to open in another thread, I don't want to take this one off topic.

[scobie redux]

I semi-retired in January, aged 48. By semi retired, I mean jumped out of the corporate rat race. SInce then I did a small three month consulting project in HK earlier in the year, and I've since taken on a consulting project in Phnom Penh. If this continues then I will be effectively working 5-6 months a year for the next few years, but only in Asia, and relaxing for the rest of the time.

I love it.

I can generate around 170-180k baht a month from my savings and investments without touching the capital, and will be able to access my personal pension fund in six years, which will increase the income by another 50k. But I touch none of this money, and reinvest it instead. When I'm not working, I live off the money I make during my productive months, spend a bit of time relaxing and half-heartedly put out feelers for the next project.

Well, aren't you the lucky one......

Nothing to do with luck and everything to do with hard work, planning, discipline and taking control of your own life.

Apologies if those concepts offend you.

[monkeycountry]

Better rich and healthy than sick and poor!

[freejack]

Think about your happiness.

Are you just bored of working at your present position, or is your goal to be happier in your life?

If you retire, what is it that will make you happy?

Can you do what you really want and reach happiness with your revenues once you retire?

I "retired" rather young with a substantial revenue.

But I keep my life busy and full of activities that make me (and others) happy.

These activities enrich my life a lot but some are also much more expensive than to stay on a balcony and look at the mountains or visit beer bars till death comes....

If retiring can make you happier, do it!

Life is short. We better live it while we can.

But do not miscalculate... Some people can be happy with very little, but personally I do not think you can be happy if your finances can't cover what you really want... And the amount varies a lot from person to person.

I have my comfort level as I review my financial plans. A point will come when it's determined to take the plunge.

Money is only important to a certain point, of course.

I personally have a lot of activities that are low cost and keep me busy: reading, running, hiking, photography, gardening and cooking. That eats up most of the free time and things I have always liked to do.

[donniereadit]

It's never enough...

Set a goal and retire when you reach it. One million or 500k is a nice round number.

[Mousehound]

I semi-retired in January, aged 48. By semi retired, I mean jumped out of the corporate rat race. SInce then I did a small three month consulting project in HK earlier in the year, and I've since taken on a consulting project in Phnom Penh. If this continues then I will be effectively working 5-6 months a year for the next few years, but only in Asia, and relaxing for the rest of the time.

I love it.

I can generate around 170-180k baht a month from my savings and investments without touching the capital, and will be able to access my personal pension fund in six years, which will increase the income by another 50k. But I touch none of this money, and reinvest it instead. When I'm not working, I live off the money I make during my productive months, spend a bit of time relaxing and half-heartedly put out feelers for the next project.

Well, aren't you the lucky one......

Nothing to do with luck and everything to do with hard work, planning, discipline and taking control of your own life.

Apologies if those concepts offend you.

So what - you are not answering the original post. Just sounding smug.

[thailiketoo]

The only problem is health insurance. Either from your wife or a military policy or some other way to cover those costs. Once you figure that out the rest is easy. $1000 US a month pension with a few million baht in the bank no problem.

[NeverSure]

The one thing you can't plan for is something going wrong with your health. Life expectancy in years is one thing, but not the best if the last 10 or 15 or 20 years are spent in a care facility.

My brother in law dropped dead at the age of 63 ?? or close and had no clue anything was wrong with him. His heart just stopped when he was home alone. Any number of things can suddenly emerge and it happens to a lot of people.

I know of a lot more people who ran out of life before they ran out of money that I do who ran out of money first. I could live on my US$2500 per month social security checks with inflation raises for life if I had to. It wouldn't be that much of a life but it would keep me from panicking over money. I would just make a lot of adjustments.

At 65 Americans qualify for medicare which is cheap and government subsidized. It isn't the poor person's medicaid, but rather something we paid into all of our lives.

Just be sure you don't run out of life, and good quality life before you run out of money while worrying only about money. Enjoy your life while you can.

[thailiketoo]

30% die at home. 20% in the hospital and the rest in nursing homes. Have any of you folks ever visited a nursing home? A cheap nursing home? I spent a million in cash keeping my mother at home till she died; a million in American dollars. I had a nurse 24/7 for her. That is 30 million baht. Now how long could you keep a person at home with 24/7 nursing care in Thailand?

Nurse USA $5,000 per month Thailand $500 per month. Now get a photo of nurse and room at Denver General and Chiang Mai Ram hospitals. I have been sick in Denver and Chiang Mai. Chiang Mai has better health care and food and the nursing staff almost makes you want to come back.

Edited November 10, 2013 by thailiketoo

[Naam]

Grab the $6000 / month for as long as you can. It will come in handy.

enabling your heirs to fly first class

[freejack]

For the record, my own plan is to ease back rather than retire fully, I enjoy my work and I enjoy the chance to take part in helping young people develop themselves and their careers. I'm back at school studying again, chasing the cobwebs out and getting qualifications which will help me leverage my experience in different directions as I get older.

I see retirement less as a destination and more of a journey, health permitting I plan to enjoy the trip.

I'd like to do volunteer work. My passion is to give back, since I have been relatively fortunate in life.

My draw to retire earlier, than later, is to do this volunteer work and help others.

Good point in another post, that once you have everything paid off, start to build up some wealth to live on in order to put off use of pension. That's the goal I've been looking at as I see my spreadsheet projections.

A day will come, though, when it is time to make the change. I suspect the decision will be less financial and more emotional (taking into consideration there is some wealth built).

[freejack]

You only live once so I think you need to make the best of it. There is a balance that has to be found. If you love your work and it is part of your happiness why stop. If you are just buying time until you retire but already have enough cash then I think it is time to stop working and enjoy your life. Money is very important however and you don't want to later look back with regret wishing you were still working, so plan plan plan.

My idea .... Think of a yearly budget based on your lifestyle and multiply it by say 25 ( you would be 81 but think of that number on how old you will live to be based on family history ???) . This is how much money i think you should have with your current investments and pension. Think of inflation and interest as offsetting each other. As long as you have insurance to cover anything major happening with your health and you not give it to some Thai bird you should be fine. If coming to Thailand always keep a plan in mind for going back to you home country in case you need to. That's my thinking ....

It is nice to enjoy your life when you are young and your health is good. When you get old you have limits and it takes away some of the pleasure. I would hate to die knowing I never lived !!!

Apologies for the belated reply:

Your comment is a very succinct way to put it.

That's also a pretty nice, and simple, wealth calculator: multiply years by income and see where you are for wealth.

I tried the multiplier and it certainly put me at ease for early retirement!

I plan to volunteer for awhile to keep busy. I can live cheap. I do leave cheap. All I need (and have) is a basic wardrobe, sturdy shoes, a laptop, smartphone and internet connection. Three squares a day and a cot and I'm good.

[freejack]

I retired at 55 the reason being both my parents had passed in their early 40s and early 50s as did one of my brothers I decided that I was not going to be working up until my dying breath and so I had promised myself that I would stop working when I hit 55 . I knew that to achieve this I could no longer live in the UK so at the age of 50 I and my wife traveled extensively both in Europe and India before deciding that Thailand is where we wanted to live. I had put the " FOR SALE " up on my business 6 months before my birthday and managed to complete the sale 8 months later, on top of this I sold my house and cars. After 4 years of renting in Thailand and having decided that this is where we would live we purchased a property the rest is history have now been here for just over 8 years with no regrets. How much we spend is nowhere like what we used to spend in the UK gone are the expensive clothes, expensive restaurants and visits to the theatre instead we live a chilled out life and spend when we need and not just for the sake of it would we go back to our old life the answer is a big fat NO !!!!!

Very interesting that your spending habits can change a lot when you move to a different country.

For me, in particular, is to see people with little, living simple and relatively or basically happy, and seeing all the stuff I own doesn't make me happy.

In fact, I own little beyond the house I have equity in. I've gotten rid of almost everything I have not used in 3 years and I'm happy to be clutter free. As an example, instead of having an extensive collection of knives, I use a Chinese cleaver to cut 95% of my vegetables and meats. It does the job and happy not to have so many extras. No electric can opener. Just a manual one. I get exercise and it works and it probably won't break down.

Yes, a chilled out life sounds really good.

And no one knows when their number comes up. No idea. Got to live life to the fullest.

Some of us feel it is time to move on to a new journey in life. (and some want to stay put).

[freejack]

I'm 46 and I don't intend to retire at all - not because I'm a workaholic but because I really can't imagine doing less than I already do.

I work from home for a few hours each day Monday to Friday so if I had more free time than I already do, I'd probably go insane.

Many of use want to keep busy doing something.

Retirement to me means doing what I want on my time each day. Whether leisure or volunteering or whatnot.

Of course, for some people, myself included, I'd be a mess if I wasn't keeping busy each day (and it's not hard for me to keep busy).

[freejack]

I retired here in Thailand at 55. I'm divorced, my "kids" are all grown up with their own careers and family. In my case, I have a pension from military service. It's not really enough to live well in the US with the high cost of living there, but here in Thailand it's fine for me. I found myself with the decision of stay in the US and have to work, or retire in Thailand. I decided to retire in Thailand. So far, I'm liking it! Later, when I have access to my IRAs, and Social Security, I may move back to the US. Closer to the "kids" and grandchildren and such. We shall see!

As others here have mentioned; Money isn't the only thing for you to consider. For some people the adjustment from full work to full retirement can be hard to handle.

Myself, I enjoy having a nice quiet and slow life. I like to read a lot, watch some movies (now on my Nook!), long walks around town for my exercise and to learn what's where, learn some Thai language, and do some traveling around Thailand. You have got to adjust and get some activities that will suit you. Others have trouble adapting. Some end up with their "retirement" centered around bars and drinking and then drinking and bars, etc. IMO, not good for them or their livers!

You sound exactly like me. Not retired military, but lifestyle-wise.

I love to read on my eReader and I like movies and I want the quiet, slow life. I'm learning Thai now.

[freejack]

What about if your are lucky and live to be 96? Can you afford to provide yourself and your significant other with a good life for forty more years? That's a long time. Or maybe you're not as lucky and live to 86. That's still thirty years of supporting yourself without a job..

And don't forget the the two things that most people either don't think about ... or don't give realistic attention to:

1- You are most likely going to lose or have to spend significant money along the way that you did not plan on ... and there are dozens of possible scenarios of how that can happen.

2- As the years roll by ... ten years ... and esp. twenty years ... and esp. esp. thirty years from now ... you money will absolutely not have as much buying power as it does today. Think about bread costing $12 or $15 a loaf. Don't believe it? Then spend some time in Goole and see what bread, or milk, or gasoline, etc. cost thirty years ago.

So when you sit down and plan how much money you'll need in the years ahead ... do so with the value of your money in the future and not just with today's money.

When it comes to retirement remember one of Murphy's Laws: It's going to require money than you think it will.

And my advice ... FWIW ... is if you don't hate your job, hang in there for a few more years. Or figure out how to semi-retire and still make some money. And if you're an American, don't take your social security until you're 70 so that you get 100% of what your qualified for.

Very good points.

Wealth plans to be tied up in low-risk funds that should keep up or outperform inflation.

Good point: Yes, there are those expenses that pop up that were not planned. Need to buffer in maybe 20%, above and beyond, added to planned expenses.

Work is fine, but kind of bored with it all. It's interesting each day, and I keep myself busy as much as possible, but hard to imaging slogging here forever.

[freejack]

Apologies for the belated replies. I thought I'd get a notification if anyone responded to my question. Lo and behold, there are many replies.

The idea of time vs. money is a very interesting one. How much do you trade off one for the other?

By the way, I was speaking hypothetically about my age. I am almost 50 (January) and I have been planning to retire at 56.

However, in reading these posts, I'm going to aim for my 55th birthday, provided my financial projections turn out as expected. Once the house is paid, I'm out of here. Based on my projections, living a disciplined financial life, I can do it. Funny, my separate projections: paying down house estimates vs. my ability to pay down came down to about a $15 difference. Not likely to happen, but funny how that turned out when recalculating this weekend.

I live on very little. Most of my entertainment is low-cost or free: watching Netflix ($8 a month or so), reading eBooks (from library or public domain or low-cost) or even real books. Photography, walking, day hiking, cooking...

I do want to spend time in "retirement" volunteering, reading, watching movies, some travel...while living in a SE Asian country.

I will be in Thailand in January for two weeks. I would like to visit Cha Am, Chiang Rai, and Chiang Mai. I've already been to BKK, Chonburi/Pattaya area and a lot of the northeast.

The comments here were very interesting, but most, along the bell curve, were relatively similar. I'm not sure if you can exhaust this topic, because it is one of interest to most people in their decision to stop their career and move on to something else.

Edited November 10, 2013 by freejack

[Emdog]

$3000 a month? $5000 a month? I am living large if I spend $1000 in a month. I don't own a car (seeing how driving is here I consider that a wise choice. Ditto for motorbike.). I own my condo, paid cash. I don't go to bars, chase whores, load up on useless hi tech stuff (I like a phone that is a phone. period). Simplify! Do you own all the distractive crap or does it own you? I also happen to like real Thai food. A few months of living simply maybe will show you all those "musts" you thought you had to have were just distractions.

Forgive me if this comes across poorly because I don't mean it that way but my guess is that you are an outlier on the bell-curve of normal spending practices. You may consider this to be a virtue but I consider it neither virtuous nor non-virtuous. You just don't spend much. You appear to have and endorse a very modest lifestyle. I hope that this lifestyle works for you and that you are truly happy. Most people would not be happy at that spending level. I don't consider myself a slave to consumerism or anything but there is no way in hell I could get buy on less than $1,000/month regularly. There is the odd month that I spend $1,000 or less but it is far from a normal month. Granted I have a wife and child but despite being relatively frugal we are on closer to $1,500 to $2,000 per month.

I think the only way to get buy on less than $1,000/month is to eat Thai street food or cook your own food with local ingredients. Also your entertainment and alcohol budgets will be extremely limited. Forget trips back to the home country they are outside your budget. Sure I could go and live in a temple for free for 6 months but why would I want to. You may enjoy your lifestyle but most would not. Yes you are free of the demon of consumerism and you are not a slave to your "stuff" but this is because at that budget level you can't afford to have stuff. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that but it is not what many aspire to have. For the general public I would suggest, find the middle ground, no need to be a slave to consumerism but also no need to be an aesthetic.

A wife and kid change the whole equation, and if that was factored in I say we are about the same level. I don't feel deprived at all. I don't live at temple. I can easily afford all that "stuff". May I suggest a read of HD Thoreau's Walden. I don't drink either, generally eat out most nights at moderate places. I prefer market and street Thai (or all Thai restaurants) because the food tastes better when I want Thai food. And I take trips back to USA every year. Years ago I had the thought "Do you own your things, or do they own you?".

[Water Buffalo]

If i have 5 million by the time i'm 60, a free place to stay, and perhaps some kind of pension or other investment, i would happily retire.

I'm already planning my vasectomy to make this goal more realistic.

[IsaanUSA]

5 million dollars, pounds, or euro?

[geronimo]

I wrote this a couple of years ago

A life

It starts with a whisper

In her little ear

It’ll be alright

There’s nothing to fear

Nine months later

Look at her girth

She’s hours away

From giving birth

A boy or a girl

It doesn’t really matter

As tiny feet

Get ready to patter

Children are strange

Their habits are funny

Peeing and pooing

And asking for money

They have to be fed

Cleaned and dressed

Shirts tucked in

Trousers neatly pressed

Now it begins

Forget the pretense

You’d better get ready

For loads of expense

Daipers and towels

Powders and lotions

Creams and wipes

And midwife’s lotions

A slap on the botty

A big gulp of air

The first scream of many

And smellies to share

The first months are easy

Not much to do

Keep putting the milk in

And mopping up the poo

Then it gets harder

For some but not all

As the little infant

Learns how to crawl

Moving around

Makes it so much fun

Imagine the damage

When he learns how to run

The twos and threes

Are said to be trying

Teeth start appearing

And so does the crying

The first day at school

The crying comes back

Soon sort that out

With a bloody big smack

You will go to school

And you’ll learn to be good

Now eat up your veg

Is that understood?

The teens are a tough one

Hormones are abound

Spots come out

When no one’s around

With the opposite sex

We soon become obsessed

Look there’s a girl

Let’s help her undress!

Then it’s college or Uni

And that should be great

Drinking and partying

And getting up late

And so it goes on

Four years of enjoyment

Then comes the time

To look for employment

The work grind begins

To give you a notion

Ten years of this

And you’re up for promotion

So you struggle and cope

For thirty five years

Dulling the pain

With whisky and beers

Until comes that day

That gets your attention

It’s time to collect

Your old age pension

Now there’s nothing to do

But wash your old socks

Until finally

You’re laid in your box!

[Skint]

5 million dollars, pounds, or euro?

Rupees

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[freejack]

Someone had responded to me about waiting a few years, due to costs going up and being at a fixed $2000 a month to spend.

Here's pretty much my response:

I appreciate your feedback. Two very interesting things.

First, I did some calculations and approximately up to age 85 or so, it's a bit of a wash as to whether to take SSI at 62 or 67 (based on drawing on pension and 401k). It's close enough that the risk would be worth it to me to draw at 62. I'm risking I won't make it to 90. If I wait to 67, and tap my 401k instead of SSI at 62, I come out a little behind if I waited to 67 and drew SSI to 85.

On your other point...hmmm.

I ran some calculations and if I waited to retire - from 56 to 59, the savings/benefits would be immense - provided the house is paid off.

Retiring at 56, I could live fairly comfortable and still have a nice bit of cushion and not burn into the very modest wealth I have.

However, at 59...things change a great deal. Savings would increase. My pension would also increase.

In fact, waiting to 59, I would be able to put off SSI to 67 and life a lot more comfortably.

My net worth, over 3 years, would increase 20% (adding up all of my benefits and house). I big chunk of change. Only to "wait" 3 years. And I'm happy where I am. I would have more money for travel.

(My only gripe about work is not enough time off during the year. I'd like more time to travel.)

---

If I had a spouse, I suppose I wouldn't care where I lived for now. I do have a Thai girlfriend and I'm going to go see her in January. If she came over here and we made trips to Thailand every couple of years or so, I certainly would not mind staying where I am, indefinitely. In fact, I do like where I am and what I do.

I suppose I'm suffering from a bit of a mid-life crisis and I need to get over it and accept where I am in life.

---

What I really want is financial independence. Where I can decide I don't need to work again. If I had to.

---

My biggest concern about retiring early is guilt I would feel if one of my kids needed money for a situation beyond their control. I would feel so selfish for taking off so early and leaving a good paying job.

• Reply

[moe666]

Just keep on working for as long as you want and when you eventually retire you can say I should have done this sooner