Conundrum - When to retire? How much money is enough?

[somtampet]

An interesting thread. I am some way off seriuosly thinking about this from my own perspective but some interesting points made in this thread. I think for myself when it comes to such an issue I will try and balance pragmatism with my free spirited side. The feeling of freedom and adventure is fantastic but also you do not want to end up in a complete miserable spot (Pattaya condo jumpers come to mind).

Good luck to you sir.

Again..talking about Pattaya...Pattaya is just a famous spot in Thailand..and not for the best reasons. Pattaya is not Thailand!

Bangkok is a famous spot in Thailand,so thats not in Thailand is it????

ridiculous post

[HerbalEd]

This topic has been discussed on numerous occasions.

Only about 300,291 times.

You must indeed like this topic. In fact here you are reading yet another one.

[HerbalEd]

What about if your are lucky and live to be 96? Can you afford to provide yourself and your significant other with a good life for forty more years? That's a long time. Or maybe you're not as lucky and live to 86. That's still thirty years of supporting yourself without a job..

And don't forget the the two things that most people either don't think about ... or don't give realistic attention to:

1- You are most likely going to lose or have to spend significant money along the way that you did not plan on ... and there are dozens of possible scenarios of how that can happen.

2- As the years roll by ... ten years ... and esp. twenty years ... and esp. esp. thirty years from now ... you money will absolutely not have as much buying power as it does today. Think about bread costing $12 or $15 a loaf. Don't believe it? Then spend some time in Goole and see what bread, or milk, or gasoline, etc. cost thirty years ago.

So when you sit down and plan how much money you'll need in the years ahead ... do so with the value of your money in the future and not just with today's money.

When it comes to retirement remember one of Murphy's Laws: It's going to require money than you think it will.

And my advice ... FWIW ... is if you don't hate your job, hang in there for a few more years. Or figure out how to semi-retire and still make some money. And if you're an American, don't take your social security until you're 70 so that you get 100% of what your qualified for.

Taking social security at 70 instead of 62 means your break even point is between 80 and 81 years old. In other words the increased benefit amount you will get by waiting til 70 will take you 10 + years to recoup / break even on the money you would have gotten from taking it at 62. Since life expectancy for most baby boomer males is about 78 unless you live longer than 81 you would lose money by waiting til 70....and that does not include whatever interest / fun you might have made by taking it at 62. So if you wait til 70 and die at 76 it is a bad decision.

Everyone I suppose has their own idea as to how long they "might" live but for me taking it at 62 was the correct choice.

Yes, I've done the calculations. Since I still have a very good income at 69, still love my work, and don't need the money ... and am a bit of a chance taker ... I decided to hang on until I'm 70 (in 11 months) and get full benefits. Plus I'm counting on a stem cell regenerative medicine break through that will enable me to live to 130. 555 (actually I'm not kidding, and have invested in a stem cell start up).

[GuestHouse]

, especially those by GuestHouse.

.

Who does not live in Thailand, like you, he does not live here.

You are correct, I do not.

I left Thailand three months ago and I'm now working as an expat somewhere else.

I've spent 14 years working as an expat in Thailand, and I've been a lot of other nice places too - As ever its good to get a change and its very good to get the new package that came with the change.

But here's a point, the discussion is "When to retire? How much money is enough"

Why would the location of respondents matter? Far from it, different lives, different places, different points of view.

Read my responses, its what I have said that either is or is not relevant to the discussion - not where I wrote it from.

As you seem to be concerned for my whereabouts, let me reassure you, I'm in one of the 'choice expat locations' for expats who actually have real choices and I'm on a deal which is helping me rapidly address the second part of the OPs question which inevitably brings closer the answer to the first part - and as ever I'm enjoying my life here.

Thank you for your kind concern, it reflects well upon you.

[chiang mai]

For the life of me GH you're a hard man to track, earlier you were in the Middle East "kicking sand", then you were "at home" in the Cotswolds and now you tell us you've spent, "the past 14 years working here in Thailand", gawd knows what it's all about but really, that's all very much secondary, as you implied. But if indeed you are in the Cotswolds, please do PM me when free and avilable and perhaps we can meet up for a pint in Great Tew? I have a home nearby.

[GuestHouse]

^ Next time I'm home, I will.

You missed my sojourn in Rome, side trip to Singapore and a few others too - Professional Expat for 25 years, it comes with a lot of visa stamps.

But, getting back on topic, it does raise a question which I often ask myself - How much of the expat life and particularly the constant moving around becomes part of our (my) identity?

That could be said of any job I think, but perhaps with the exception of the armed forces or the police force, I can't think of many careers that wrap job and life style up together so closely.

The handcuffs, as was discussed in another thread, are awfully comfortable.

[ExpatOilWorker]

What about if your are lucky and live to be 96? Can you afford to provide yourself and your significant other with a good life for forty more years? That's a long time. Or maybe you're not as lucky and live to 86. That's still thirty years of supporting yourself without a job..

And don't forget the the two things that most people either don't think about ... or don't give realistic attention to:

1- You are most likely going to lose or have to spend significant money along the way that you did not plan on ... and there are dozens of possible scenarios of how that can happen.

2- As the years roll by ... ten years ... and esp. twenty years ... and esp. esp. thirty years from now ... you money will absolutely not have as much buying power as it does today. Think about bread costing $12 or $15 a loaf. Don't believe it? Then spend some time in Goole and see what bread, or milk, or gasoline, etc. cost thirty years ago.

So when you sit down and plan how much money you'll need in the years ahead ... do so with the value of your money in the future and not just with today's money.

When it comes to retirement remember one of Murphy's Laws: It's going to require money than you think it will.

And my advice ... FWIW ... is if you don't hate your job, hang in there for a few more years. Or figure out how to semi-retire and still make some money. And if you're an American, don't take your social security until you're 70 so that you get 100% of what your qualified for.

A beer at Pat Pong was 8 baht in 1969. Today it is around 120 baht, so 1,500% in 44 years or 6.3% p.a. Inflation can be a retirement savings killer.

[sprq]

I semi-retired in January, aged 48. By semi retired, I mean jumped out of the corporate rat race. SInce then I did a small three month consulting project in HK earlier in the year, and I've since taken on a consulting project in Phnom Penh. If this continues then I will be effectively working 5-6 months a year for the next few years, but only in Asia, and relaxing for the rest of the time.

I love it.

I can generate around 170-180k baht a month from my savings and investments without touching the capital, and will be able to access my personal pension fund in six years, which will increase the income by another 50k. But I touch none of this money, and reinvest it instead. When I'm not working, I live off the money I make during my productive months, spend a bit of time relaxing and half-heartedly put out feelers for the next project.

Well, aren't you the lucky one......

[thaibeachlovers]

I semi-retired in January, aged 48. By semi retired, I mean jumped out of the corporate rat race. SInce then I did a small three month consulting project in HK earlier in the year, and I've since taken on a consulting project in Phnom Penh. If this continues then I will be effectively working 5-6 months a year for the next few years, but only in Asia, and relaxing for the rest of the time.

I love it.

I can generate around 170-180k baht a month from my savings and investments without touching the capital, and will be able to access my personal pension fund in six years, which will increase the income by another 50k. But I touch none of this money, and reinvest it instead. When I'm not working, I live off the money I make during my productive months, spend a bit of time relaxing and half-heartedly put out feelers for the next project.

Well, aren't you the lucky one......

Words fail me.

[thaibeachlovers]

What about if your are lucky and live to be 96? Can you afford to provide yourself and your significant other with a good life for forty more years? That's a long time. Or maybe you're not as lucky and live to 86. That's still thirty years of supporting yourself without a job..

And don't forget the the two things that most people either don't think about ... or don't give realistic attention to:

1- You are most likely going to lose or have to spend significant money along the way that you did not plan on ... and there are dozens of possible scenarios of how that can happen.

2- As the years roll by ... ten years ... and esp. twenty years ... and esp. esp. thirty years from now ... you money will absolutely not have as much buying power as it does today. Think about bread costing $12 or $15 a loaf. Don't believe it? Then spend some time in Goole and see what bread, or milk, or gasoline, etc. cost thirty years ago.

So when you sit down and plan how much money you'll need in the years ahead ... do so with the value of your money in the future and not just with today's money.

When it comes to retirement remember one of Murphy's Laws: It's going to require money than you think it will.

And my advice ... FWIW ... is if you don't hate your job, hang in there for a few more years. Or figure out how to semi-retire and still make some money. And if you're an American, don't take your social security until you're 70 so that you get 100% of what your qualified for.

A beer at Pat Pong was 8 baht in 1969. Today it is around 120 baht, so 1,500% in 44 years or 6.3% p.a. Inflation can be a retirement savings killer.

The current banking scam where I receive zero interest on money in my UK bank account is also a killer.

If the so called quantative easing farce that the Fed is indulging in causes the expected mega inflation, I'm stuffed, really. It's a worry that the so called experts are now saying inflation would be a good thing to fuel employment- OK if you have well paying job, but hell for the rest of us.

[sprq]

If i was single then retiring on 5,000 $ per month would be my minimum (assuming health insurance covered already). But im married so aiming for 10,000- 13,000 $ per month (i have about 20 years to reach my target...)- company pension, annuity, stock dividends, rental income possibly- i dont quality for a government pension/SS but my wife does.

One thing to consider is stability of pension income- a company defined benefit pension, social/govt pension and annuities gives peace of mind- no need to stress about money running out if you find yourself living into your 70s-80s-90s.

Chances of you being divorced before then (about 50%) and losing most of your retirement pension/savings are high.

Chances of you dying before then are better (about 25%).

Good luck with your plans.

You are a bundle of laughs ;-) I don't know what sort of lifestyle you lead, but the average age of death of westerners is still in the 70s and increasing every year. Mind you, i am still considering early semi-retirement at 55, just working a few months a year from then until 60 or so. Divorce, yes- who knows, but my wife works and earns slightly more than me so a divorce settlement would primarily be me paying for my kids expenses, and i have no problem handing over what ever that may be- happy to.

I agree average age of death is in 70s (79 UK, 71 Thailand), so half the people die before their 70s, and a quarter of people die before their 60s. That's what average means ......

Also, is your wife saving and accumulation pension as much as you are?

Women often don't bother to save as much, in which case she will be having half of yours on divorce, along with all the house.

Life expectancy is the estimated number of years of life remaining for an individual at a given age. Most people misunderstand this and only quote the figure for life expectancy at birth, which is what you are doing. For example, if you are a male Brit of 65, your life expectancy is 84.5 years, according to this website http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/your-life-expectancy-by-age

[expatdreamer]

I have not retired yet, but I would say if the rent from your house plus small pension equates to 100,000 bht/month post tax now, then you are good to go and can move to LOS now. Normally a pension and rent will increase with inflation.

Then presumably at a later date you will have access to the 401K and SS (I assume in 4 years at 60?). This will add to your income and counter inflation. If you already have access to these now, even better - not sure how that would be possible at 56, it is not in my country.

Another fall back is you can always sell your house later on if you decide LOS is for you permanently, and spend that down slowly.

Ultimately the decision is yours but think about what you want to do in LOS, your health and expected longevity versus how much BS you can take from work etc just to save up more coin.

[Tolley]

You know it doesnt have to be one or the other.

You can actually do what many of us do and that is spend some of the year in Thailand and some at home.

That way you get the best of both worlds.

[amykat]

Not too easy to pull that off Tolley, if you are American and working in the normal corp. world ...we get very little vacation time, and the flights/travel time are really LONG to Thailand.

I can't imagine anyone making it more than twice a year, if they connect with other days off, like Thanksgiving weekend, Xmas, NYs ...along with vacation time ...which would still be very short trips, and at the worst travel times of the year, etc. I think one trip a year would be the most one could expect from most people.

Edited October 12, 2013 by amykat

[bocceball1]

Not too easy to pull that off Tolley, if you are American and working in the normal corp. world ...we get very little vacation time, and the flights/travel time are really LONG to Thailand.

I can't imagine anyone making it more than twice a year, if they connect with other days off, like Thanksgiving weekend, Xmas, NYs ...along with vacation time ...which would still be very short trips, and at the worst travel times of the year, etc. I think one trip a year would be the most one could expect from most people.

Not too easy for most...

BUT for me ...in 2003 and 2004 I used to do the trip 9 times a year 1K (United) Platinium (EVA) Cards. Helps being my own boss. Just wasn't sure that Thailand was where I wanted to be. Now though Thailand has been my home for 9 (almost 10) years. Still fly back to see my mother (87 years old) for Xmas and to do my taxes in April.

Just have to make up your mind to do it. I did.

[Naam]

eeerrr, Naam is our resident Millionaire, do not even dream about being in the same league, kow chai bor ?

out of my >24,000 postings can you quote a single one in which i mentioned that i'm a millionaire?

you can't? then shut up poor boy!

[Naam]

The current banking scam where I receive zero interest on money in my UK bank account is also a killer.

If the so called quantative easing farce that the Fed is indulging in causes the expected mega inflation, I'm stuffed, really. It's a worry that the so called experts are now saying inflation would be a good thing to fuel employment- OK if you have well paying job, but hell for the rest of us.

no offense intended... but somebody who's living expenses are based solely on interest yielding cash has not done his homework for quite a number of years.

[Emdog]

$3000 a month? $5000 a month? I am living large if I spend $1000 in a month. I don't own a car (seeing how driving is here I consider that a wise choice. Ditto for motorbike.). I own my condo, paid cash. I don't go to bars, chase whores, load up on useless hi tech stuff (I like a phone that is a phone. period). Simplify! Do you own all the distractive crap or does it own you? I also happen to like real Thai food. A few months of living simply maybe will show you all those "musts" you thought you had to have were just distractions.

[FiftyTwo]

Life expectancy is the estimated number of years of life remaining for an individual at a given age. Most people misunderstand this and only quote the figure for life expectancy at birth, which is what you are doing. For example, if you are a male Brit of 65, your life expectancy is 84.5 years, according to this website http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/your-life-expectancy-by-age

If you knew anything about statistics, you would understand that 'life expectancy' can be plotted as a bell curve.

In the western world almost everyone dies between 40 and 100 with a few outliers.

The poster I was talking to said he has 20 years to retirement, which means he has just entered the 'bell' and now has maximum expectancy of death.

[Dakling]

$3000 a month? $5000 a month? I am living large if I spend $1000 in a month. I don't own a car (seeing how driving is here I consider that a wise choice. Ditto for motorbike.). I own my condo, paid cash. I don't go to bars, chase whores, load up on useless hi tech stuff (I like a phone that is a phone. period). Simplify! Do you own all the distractive crap or does it own you? I also happen to like real Thai food. A few months of living simply maybe will show you all those "musts" you thought you had to have were just distractions.

Forgive me if this comes across poorly because I don't mean it that way but my guess is that you are an outlier on the bell-curve of normal spending practices. You may consider this to be a virtue but I consider it neither virtuous nor non-virtuous. You just don't spend much. You appear to have and endorse a very modest lifestyle. I hope that this lifestyle works for you and that you are truly happy. Most people would not be happy at that spending level. I don't consider myself a slave to consumerism or anything but there is no way in hell I could get buy on less than $1,000/month regularly. There is the odd month that I spend $1,000 or less but it is far from a normal month. Granted I have a wife and child but despite being relatively frugal we are on closer to $1,500 to $2,000 per month.

I think the only way to get buy on less than $1,000/month is to eat Thai street food or cook your own food with local ingredients. Also your entertainment and alcohol budgets will be extremely limited. Forget trips back to the home country they are outside your budget. Sure I could go and live in a temple for free for 6 months but why would I want to. You may enjoy your lifestyle but most would not. Yes you are free of the demon of consumerism and you are not a slave to your "stuff" but this is because at that budget level you can't afford to have stuff. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that but it is not what many aspire to have. For the general public I would suggest, find the middle ground, no need to be a slave to consumerism but also no need to be an aesthetic.

[HerbalEd]

I semi-retired in January, aged 48. By semi retired, I mean jumped out of the corporate rat race. SInce then I did a small three month consulting project in HK earlier in the year, and I've since taken on a consulting project in Phnom Penh. If this continues then I will be effectively working 5-6 months a year for the next few years, but only in Asia, and relaxing for the rest of the time.

I love it.

I can generate around 170-180k baht a month from my savings and investments without touching the capital, and will be able to access my personal pension fund in six years, which will increase the income by another 50k. But I touch none of this money, and reinvest it instead. When I'm not working, I live off the money I make during my productive months, spend a bit of time relaxing and half-heartedly put out feelers for the next project.

Well, aren't you the lucky one......

Well, aren't you the jealous one ....

[SeabagsFull]

Forgive me if this comes across poorly because I don't mean it that way but my guess is that you are an outlier on the bell-curve of normal spending practices. You may consider this to be a virtue but I consider it neither virtuous nor non-virtuous. You just don't spend much. You appear to have and endorse a very modest lifestyle. I hope that this lifestyle works for you and that you are truly happy. Most people would not be happy at that spending level. I don't consider myself a slave to consumerism or anything but there is no way in hell I could get buy on less than $1,000/month regularly. There is the odd month that I spend $1,000 or less but it is far from a normal month. Granted I have a wife and child but despite being relatively frugal we are on closer to $1,500 to $2,000 per month.

I think the only way to get buy on less than $1,000/month is to eat Thai street food or cook your own food with local ingredients. Also your entertainment and alcohol budgets will be extremely limited. Forget trips back to the home country they are outside your budget. Sure I could go and live in a temple for free for 6 months but why would I want to. You may enjoy your lifestyle but most would not. Yes you are free of the demon of consumerism and you are not a slave to your "stuff" but this is because at that budget level you can't afford to have stuff. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that but it is not what many aspire to have. For the general public I would suggest, find the middle ground, no need to be a slave to consumerism but also no need to be an aesthetic.

I get it, Dakling #111. You are used to having more money & believe you'd be unhappy with much less. But truthfully, what we can adapt to & be happy with depends not only on our personal situation but also on how we perceive the world.

In my Navy twilight years, I owned a Taekwondo School which helped boost my family income to maybe $10K a month (including my ex-wife's PO income). Funny thing about income, though, it's like a hard drive that keeps getting maxed out no matter how big of a drive you buy. I didn't have much money to throw around then, & my life was like a "1" on a circuit board, following programmed routes & slowly wearing down.

A few months after moving to Thailand & getting remarried, I signed a contract to build a house in Udon Thani. With a promised mortgage (by SCB) of 90% of the cost of the house, my wife & I calculated how much we could spend: about 2M baht. So we bought house stuff, like a Modern Form kitchen, central AC, attic foam, furniture, etc., & set money aside for a dowry (traditional wedding came after civil). When the house was complete, SCB reneged on their promise & would only lend me about 69% of the total. Faced with losing everything, I maxed a $20K CC, sold my car in the States, took out a couple of signature loans, & agreed to pay the developer the final 500K baht over a two-year period. This left us with $1,000 baht a month to buy food at the market & usually 300-500 baht each for personal spending. I knew that my VA disability would be increasing each year due to a slow rescinding of retirement-offset rules, so I thought "no problem." But in a second unforeseen calamity, the Thai baht started to get stronger. It went from around 42 baht per $1 in 2004 to maybe 30 baht per $1 when we sold the house in 2010.

Yet my memories of those years are priceless. We had no problem living, built many lasting friendships, met scores of young women (wife's friends from UDRU), had nearly weekly parties & BBQs at our home, etc. Adding to the character of the memories, we watched our lot slowly change from walking everywhere in Udon to riding bicycles to getting a tuk tuk to eventually having a motorbike. Enjoyed the walking the most; would take us about 30' to walk to Charoensri Complex (now Central Plaza). As my loans started disappearing, the extra money was spent on the CC as we were already comfortable with our lives. We even took the bus when visiting friends in Bangkok, which I personally enjoyed.

We enjoyed our lives during this time so much that, when I was offered a job teaching at a local girls school, I turned it down. I didn't mind the idea of teaching for 14 hours a week for 25K baht monthly, but the rules stated that I had to come in every morning by 0830 & remain in the school until late afternoon. Didn't need the money that much, so I walked.

I know of several people who live humbly in Thailand, all of whom are extremely happy.

[Chittychangchang]

I retired at 21 for the best 10 years ever bumming around the planet.

Will have to work till i drop now though.

JUMP- Life's too short and there are plenty of rich people in the grave yard.

Keep away from Pattaya and you'll be right!

CCC

[MrHammer]

I semi-retired in January, aged 48. By semi retired, I mean jumped out of the corporate rat race. SInce then I did a small three month consulting project in HK earlier in the year, and I've since taken on a consulting project in Phnom Penh. If this continues then I will be effectively working 5-6 months a year for the next few years, but only in Asia, and relaxing for the rest of the time.

I love it.

I can generate around 170-180k baht a month from my savings and investments without touching the capital, and will be able to access my personal pension fund in six years, which will increase the income by another 50k. But I touch none of this money, and reinvest it instead. When I'm not working, I live off the money I make during my productive months, spend a bit of time relaxing and half-heartedly put out feelers for the next project.

This is the way to do it imo, if you have skills which can sold as a consultant. Preferably with some assets generating passive income. Work a bit to keep your mind sharp and to meet new people, but none of the rat race.

[Tolley]

Not too easy to pull that off Tolley, if you are American and working in the normal corp. world ...we get very little vacation time, and the flights/travel time are really LONG to Thailand.

I can't imagine anyone making it more than twice a year, if they connect with other days off, like Thanksgiving weekend, Xmas, NYs ...along with vacation time ...which would still be very short trips, and at the worst travel times of the year, etc. I think one trip a year would be the most one could expect from most people.

I am not american and I work for myself. I know quite a few other Aussies who do the same as me. They have no intention of ever living in Thailand fulltime but they like spending a fair bit of time there.

When I get sick of the third world I just hop on the plane back home in 7 hours.

[Emdog]

$3000 a month? $5000 a month? I am living large if I spend $1000 in a month. I don't own a car (seeing how driving is here I consider that a wise choice. Ditto for motorbike.). I own my condo, paid cash. I don't go to bars, chase whores, load up on useless hi tech stuff (I like a phone that is a phone. period). Simplify! Do you own all the distractive crap or does it own you? I also happen to like real Thai food. A few months of living simply maybe will show you all those "musts" you thought you had to have were just distractions.

Forgive me if this comes across poorly because I don't mean it that way but my guess is that you are an outlier on the bell-curve of normal spending practices. You may consider this to be a virtue but I consider it neither virtuous nor non-virtuous. You just don't spend much. You appear to have and endorse a very modest lifestyle. I hope that this lifestyle works for you and that you are truly happy. Most people would not be happy at that spending level. I don't consider myself a slave to consumerism or anything but there is no way in hell I could get buy on less than $1,000/month regularly. There is the odd month that I spend $1,000 or less but it is far from a normal month. Granted I have a wife and child but despite being relatively frugal we are on closer to $1,500 to $2,000 per month.

I think the only way to get buy on less than $1,000/month is to eat Thai street food or cook your own food with local ingredients. Also your entertainment and alcohol budgets will be extremely limited. Forget trips back to the home country they are outside your budget. Sure I could go and live in a temple for free for 6 months but why would I want to. You may enjoy your lifestyle but most would not. Yes you are free of the demon of consumerism and you are not a slave to your "stuff" but this is because at that budget level you can't afford to have stuff. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that but it is not what many aspire to have. For the general public I would suggest, find the middle ground, no need to be a slave to consumerism but also no need to be an aesthetic.

Having a wife and kid will boost the expenses for sure. I don't drink booze: I am already stupid enough! My budget includes trips back to USA once a year, where I also usually buy another spendy guitar (I limit myself to about 14 guitars, so wind up giving one away). I could spend 3x what I do and not dent savings. So I can easily afford all the "distractions". I think I was influenced lots by HD Thoreau. And I don't like being manipulated by trendy "what would others think" social/ad pressures to go get latest IPhone and then my sex life would be better, etc. I don't feel like I am wearing any hair shirt or denying what I want. I found out long ago all that stuff doesn't bring happiness, but the chasing after it can impede happiness.

[mickjn]

being a slave to money is a hard habit to break, but once you do, living on $2,000 a month in LOS seems quite luxurious. the hardest part is letting go-once you have made the leap of faith, you wonder why you didn't do it sooner. jump.

I agree in toto

[David48]

When the house was complete, SCB reneged on their promise & would only lend me about 69% of the total. Faced with losing everything, I maxed a $20K CC, sold my car in the States, took out a couple of signature loans, & agreed to pay the developer the final 500K baht over a two-year period. This left us with $1,000 baht a month to buy food at the market & usually 300-500 baht each for personal spending.

...

SeabagsFull ... your story interests me.

There are some things which don't align with my understand of the market ... and my understanding is fairly good.

... how the SCB, who would have to finance the land purchase and then agree to the staged building stages, dropped their loan valuation from 90% down to 69%.

If your wife owned the land then the lend wouldn't be 90%.

If you had to buy the land with the Bank Loan ... how did that loan settle the land purchase? Because you can't build on the land until you own it.

Considering that furniture, central AC and kitchens are almost the last things to go into a home... but you had 'bought them' ... intrigues me further.

[SeabagsFull]

When the house was complete, SCB reneged on their promise & would only lend me about 69% of the total. Faced with losing everything, I maxed a $20K CC, sold my car in the States, took out a couple of signature loans, & agreed to pay the developer the final 500K baht over a two-year period. This left us with $1,000 baht a month to buy food at the market & usually 300-500 baht each for personal spending.

...

SeabagsFull ... your story interests me.

There are some things which don't align with my understand of the market ... and my understanding is fairly good.

... how the SCB, who would have to finance the land purchase and then agree to the staged building stages, dropped their loan valuation from 90% down to 69%.

If your wife owned the land then the lend wouldn't be 90%.

If you had to buy the land with the Bank Loan ... how did that loan settle the land purchase? Because you can't build on the land until you own it.

Considering that furniture, central AC and kitchens are almost the last things to go into a home... but you had 'bought them' ... intrigues me further.

To David48 #119, truthfully I don't know how anyone can grasp anything of an "official" nature in Thailand, considering that rules differ from province to province, from bank to bank, & even from two different officials within the same institution. Being a stickler for uniformity both in the Navy & in the ATA, this concept was probably the most difficult for me to wrap my arms around in the LoS. That said, here goes.

We built the house -- all in my wife's name -- in Komen City Estates, a village near Nong Sim in Udon Thani. The developer, a local big shot with much influence, set up a meeting between me & an SCB (Siam Commercial Bank) representative. I don't know anything about land purchase versus staged building stages; I guess you could call it a complete package. Anyway, I produced income-related documents during that meeting at which point the banker agreed to 90% of the developer's quoted amount for the house & land. There was some haggling going on in Thai between the banker & developer, at which point it was suggested I increase my down-payment to 500K baht; I agreed.

As for the kitchen & AC, they were completed & installed before the house was completed. For example, the AC ducting was installed in both the attic & space between the floors (2 story) before the ceilings were installed. I paid these in full before signing the final documents with the bank. The rest of the stuff we purchased all over Thailand ahead of time, usually with 50% deposit up front & the rest to be paid upon delivery. I purchased three Sealy bed sets for 160K baht, 15K-40K below normal price; to get the deal, I had to pay cash up front. In the case of some furniture we bought on sale in Bangkok, we had to pay the entire amount; in all cases, we delayed taking delivery until after move-in.

Near completion of the house, the developer told me that SCB had taken some huge losses in Chiang Mai from farang & thus were going to cut their loan amounts to 50%. He then said that he'd convinced them to up the amount a little, that there were seven of us farang in the village that had been promised higher amounts.

There's no doubt in my mind that there's more to the story, but the way it played out worked for me. I admit, however, that I was sweating it at first, not knowing how I was going to come up with the rest of the money.

David48, buying a house & land together is common place in new villages; I nearly bought a similar package in Bangkok (Perfect Place Village). Problem there was that the developer said farang with Thai wives were not allowed to mortgage, that only cash could be accepted. Yet a Bangkok Bank friend of a Thai pilot friend of mine told me years later that they could have given us 100% mortgage if I'd approached them.

Anyone can make it in Thailand, but everyone will have their own particular set of problems & ... solutions. For my wife & me, we made over 2M profit on our house in a little over six years. Normally, that might not sound like much, but for Thailand it was amazing!

[FiftyTwo]

$3000 a month? $5000 a month? I am living large if I spend $1000 in a month. I don't own a car (seeing how driving is here I consider that a wise choice. Ditto for motorbike.). I own my condo, paid cash. I don't go to bars, chase whores, load up on useless hi tech stuff (I like a phone that is a phone. period). Simplify! Do you own all the distractive crap or does it own you? I also happen to like real Thai food. A few months of living simply maybe will show you all those "musts" you thought you had to have were just distractions.

Forgive me if this comes across poorly because I don't mean it that way but my guess is that you are an outlier on the bell-curve of normal spending practices. You may consider this to be a virtue but I consider it neither virtuous nor non-virtuous. You just don't spend much. You appear to have and endorse a very modest lifestyle. I hope that this lifestyle works for you and that you are truly happy. Most people would not be happy at that spending level. I don't consider myself a slave to consumerism or anything but there is no way in hell I could get buy on less than $1,000/month regularly. There is the odd month that I spend $1,000 or less but it is far from a normal month. Granted I have a wife and child but despite being relatively frugal we are on closer to $1,500 to $2,000 per month.

I think the only way to get buy on less than $1,000/month is to eat Thai street food or cook your own food with local ingredients. Also your entertainment and alcohol budgets will be extremely limited. Forget trips back to the home country they are outside your budget. Sure I could go and live in a temple for free for 6 months but why would I want to. You may enjoy your lifestyle but most would not. Yes you are free of the demon of consumerism and you are not a slave to your "stuff" but this is because at that budget level you can't afford to have stuff. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that but it is not what many aspire to have. For the general public I would suggest, find the middle ground, no need to be a slave to consumerism but also no need to be an aesthetic.

Not everybody has or wants a wife/gf/family.

I have quite a good lifestyle on 45k a month supporting MIL, gf, gf daughter, our son (that's 5 people).

That includes her home loan repayments (double a monthly house rental).

Without the baggage, I could easily live on 30k, and that includes 2 'liaisons' a week.