Malta warns EU waters 'a cemetery' after fresh tragedy

[webfact]

Malta warns EU waters 'a cemetery' after fresh tragedy

LONDON: -- Maltese PM Joseph Muscat says European waters close to Africa are turning into a cemetery, after another boat laden with migrants capsized.

Mr Muscat said Malta felt "abandoned" by the rest of Europe and insisted that the EU had to take action.

Malta and Italy launched a rescue operation after a boat capsized on Friday, leaving at least 27 dead.

It happened 120km (70 miles) off Lampedusa, the Italian island where at least 300 migrants drowned last week.

The loss of life has renewed the debate within EU member states on migration rules.

In the latest incident, the vessel carrying more than 200 migrants is believed to have encountered difficulties in Maltese waters just before sunset on Friday. [read more...]

Full story: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-24502279


-- BBC 2013-10-12

[lee b]

These people must really have it bad if they are willing to risk their lifes doing this

[oldsailor35]

Same same ......Australia.

[Sydebolle]

Dont get me wrong but I - as a European - am sick and tired of all those "refugees" going through all sorts of hat tricks in "seeking asylum".

It puts the blame on Europe's conscience for something which is not Europe's fault. Europe's society structure and welfare systems grew over the years with contributions of every working European. It also allowed to lend a helping hand to the needy due to its diversity and mutual respect for human beings. There is no such system anywhere else in the world. Asia runs Asian, the US are bankrupt - nobody though is allowed to admit it and all the bills/problems are thrown at Europe.

These structures, which made Europe what is is, are in most cases grossly misused. And as long as politicians are not being held responsible and - worst case scenario do not get reelected and have to retire with obscene retirement packages - then Europe is dying a slow death. Welcome to Planet Earth!

[Credo]

So, we shouldn't feel bad for the people that are dying, we should feel sorry for Europe????

[palace15]

Thats less that are probably heading to the UK

[wolf5370]

So, we shouldn't feel bad for the people that are dying, we should feel sorry for Europe????

No, but that should not make it obligatory that one state has to continually bail out another, even to its detriment, because that state can not support its people. However PC, liberal and caring we wish to appear, countries are funded by the people of those countries and the responsibility of governments is to those people.

In Europe we constantly see "refugees" from countries that are not oppressive, that throw their passports and papers overboard and claim to be in different circumstances than they really are to qualify. These same people do not stop at Malta, or even Spain for long - they head to Germany and the UK where they can get benefits and work illegally for good wages (comparatively); are protected by law and given citizenship and a free pass to family members after a few years. Real refugees running for their life would and should stop at the first safe harbour. France has been continually criticised for actually putting them on the Eurostar to England!

Once this was annoying and fuelled the right wing - with the wealthy European countries still reeling from the melt down, it is simply not acceptable. The EU and individual, members states, both at governmental levels and privately (charities - with tax free earning status) help funs in-country relief operations and aid, and put pressure of oppressive regimes - it is down to those countries to protect and care for their own masses.

Many return time and time again - until they eventually got through.

See also: Immigration to the United Kingdom since 1922 and Race and crime in the United Kingdom

It was reported in 2007 that more than one-fifth of solved crimes in London was committed by immigrants. Around a third of all solved, reported sex offences and a half of all solved, reported frauds in the capital were carried out by non-British citizens. A 2008 study found that the crime rate of Eastern European immigrants was the same as that of the indigenous population. This continues the trend throughout mainland Europe (especially Spain, France and the Netherlands)

Countries like India with massive reserves and huge GDP is still the subject of charity and government help for schooling, care for the elderly, care for the sick and handicapped, and the poor - and so on - because their own state does nothing to help its own - and what incentive do they have to do so?

[SjaakNL2013]

I am sorry to say.... but who cares.... they buy a ticket for a boat that try to enter Europe illegal and if get busted or drink in sea they start cry.

Get an education and try to build up your own country instead of invading other countries with watery eyes so we all must feel pity with you...

[Mudcrab]

Read recently about an Iranian (I think) lady demanding a tit job while in detention in PNG getting health checks etc on the way to Oz, or so she thinks. Bunch of freeloaders rorting the system.

[khunken]

These refugees from north Africa are far from 'freeloaders' - an easily thrown out term when people couldn't be bothered to look at why they come.

They are desperate - so desperate that the buy a inflated-price dingy and paddle, without proper oars, across to Spain, Malta & Italy. They are fleeing countries like Mali, Libya, Eritrea & Somalia - failed states (maybe not Eritrea) - where EU countries like France together with the US are involved in bombing & covert operations against various groups, some allegedly linked to Al Quaeda.

Australia is just as bad with their involvement in Iraq & Afghanistan where they had & have no business being - and wonder why refugees from those countries want to flee a war zone and pay traffickers to get to a rich country. Yes there are economic refugees which need to be weeded out but genuine refugees need some real justice.

[folium]

Always so edifying to read the comments on what is a forum almost entirely populated by immigrants. Most of us left our home county to live and/or work elsewhere but heaven forbid anyone else making the same decision....

If you are unfortunate enough to be a resident of Eritrea (probably one of the nastiest, most repressive countries in Africa) or Syria, the desire to leave is understandably enormous.

The hypocrisy of anti-immigration feelings is also underlined in this article...

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/22/world/europe/22iht-migrants.4.13893156.html?_r=0

Edited October 13, 2013 by folium

[Mosha]

Always so edifying to read the comments on what is a forum almost entirely populated by immigrants. Most of us left our home county to live and/or work elsewhere but heaven forbid anyone else making the same decision....

If you are unfortunate enough to be a resident of Eritrea (probably one of the nastiest, most repressive countries in Africa) or Syria, the desire to leave is understandably enormous.

The hypocrisy of anti-immigration feelings is also underlined in this article...

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/22/world/europe/22iht-migrants.4.13893156.html?_r=0

We didn't come here for the free handouts.

[folium]

Always so edifying to read the comments on what is a forum almost entirely populated by immigrants. Most of us left our home county to live and/or work elsewhere but heaven forbid anyone else making the same decision....

If you are unfortunate enough to be a resident of Eritrea (probably one of the nastiest, most repressive countries in Africa) or Syria, the desire to leave is understandably enormous.

The hypocrisy of anti-immigration feelings is also underlined in this article...

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/22/world/europe/22iht-migrants.4.13893156.html?_r=0

We didn't come here for the free handouts.

Perhaps just the cheap handj@bs instead....!

But more seriously the legend of benefit scrounging immigrants, while it shifts copies of the Daily Mail and its ilk, is barely grounded in any form of fact or valid stats. The piece from the NYT I linked to above underlines what migration is about in the vast majority of cases.

[bangon04]

Always so edifying to read the comments on what is a forum almost entirely populated by immigrants. Most of us left our home county to live and/or work elsewhere but heaven forbid anyone else making the same decision....

If you are unfortunate enough to be a resident of Eritrea (probably one of the nastiest, most repressive countries in Africa) or Syria, the desire to leave is understandably enormous.

The hypocrisy of anti-immigration feelings is also underlined in this article...

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/22/world/europe/22iht-migrants.4.13893156.html?_r=0

Of course...lets fill up a small EU country with refugees from Eritrea and other corrupt backward regimes, and then we will have one more Eritrea. That will be a big help.

[Baloo22]

The "fault" for these deaths does not lie with the EU or Europe at all. The fault lies far more with the countries and port authorities that are allowing these ships to sail with these "refugees" on board. I notice that the BBC article does not specify what port(s) these two boats launched from. Curious!

Mr. Muscat is directing his complaints in the wrong direction. Mr. Muscat says "Rules need to change, ...". Yes they do. The rules that need to change the most are the rules at the ports of departure!

[folium]

The "fault" for these deaths does not lie with the EU or Europe at all. The fault lies far more with the countries and port authorities that are allowing these ships to sail with these "refugees" on board. I notice that the BBC article does not specify what port(s) these two boats launched from. Curious!

Mr. Muscat is directing his complaints in the wrong direction. Mr. Muscat says "Rules need to change, ...". Yes they do. The rules that need to change the most are the rules at the ports of departure!

No great secret here ( see map at end of OP link), and covered extensively in other BBC pieces, eg

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-24406416

Basically migrants will try whatever route offers the best chance of success, so the Canaries, Lampedusa, Malta, Sicily or overland via Greece are all options. As one route is tightened up on, another is opened up. The old stepping on a lump in the carpet syndrome.

The 2 most recent migrant boat sinkings originated from Libya, where given the current turmoil, there are few measures/forces in place to prevent them.

Given the dire condition in places such as Syria or Eritrea and the constant demand for labour in many parts of Europe, migration is and will remain a constant feature, as it always has been.

[folium]

Always so edifying to read the comments on what is a forum almost entirely populated by immigrants. Most of us left our home county to live and/or work elsewhere but heaven forbid anyone else making the same decision....

If you are unfortunate enough to be a resident of Eritrea (probably one of the nastiest, most repressive countries in Africa) or Syria, the desire to leave is understandably enormous.

The hypocrisy of anti-immigration feelings is also underlined in this article...

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/22/world/europe/22iht-migrants.4.13893156.html?_r=0

Of course...lets fill up a small EU country with refugees from Eritrea and other corrupt backward regimes, and then we will have one more Eritrea. That will be a big help.

Arriving in Malta, Lampedusa, the Canaries is rarely the final destination as the migrants normally find far better job opportunities on continental Europe.

People want a better, safer life for themselves and their families, there's a never seen before outrage.....

[NeverSure]

Dont get me wrong but I - as a European - am sick and tired of all those "refugees" going through all sorts of hat tricks in "seeking asylum".

It puts the blame on Europe's conscience for something which is not Europe's fault. Europe's society structure and welfare systems grew over the years with contributions of every working European. It also allowed to lend a helping hand to the needy due to its diversity and mutual respect for human beings. There is no such system anywhere else in the world. Asia runs Asian, the US are bankrupt - nobody though is allowed to admit it and all the bills/problems are thrown at Europe.

These structures, which made Europe what is is, are in most cases grossly misused. And as long as politicians are not being held responsible and - worst case scenario do not get reelected and have to retire with obscene retirement packages - then Europe is dying a slow death. Welcome to Planet Earth!

"...the US are bankrupt.."

No, the US has its internal fights and airs its dirty laundry in public.

BUT its debt to GDP ratio is less than the UK, Germany, France, Japan, Spain, even Canada, and a whole lot of other critics.

Additionally, the US actually has an economy with massive profits from tech and many other things including the internet you are using and many, many other tech patents and companies. You can't turn on your smartphone or cell phone or log onto the internet without making the US money.

Additionally, you may be confusing the government's finances with private industry's finances, which are hurting in Europe.

Link

[transam]

These people PAY money to get to the countries where the ''streets are paved with gold''. That is what they are told, that is what they believe. Up to them, and their risk.

[Scott]

The "fault" for these deaths does not lie with the EU or Europe at all. The fault lies far more with the countries and port authorities that are allowing these ships to sail with these "refugees" on board. I notice that the BBC article does not specify what port(s) these two boats launched from. Curious!

Mr. Muscat is directing his complaints in the wrong direction. Mr. Muscat says "Rules need to change, ...". Yes they do. The rules that need to change the most are the rules at the ports of departure!

The boats usually do not leave from a port. The larger boat is hidden away or is off-shore. Smaller boats with passengers then smuggle the people to the larger boat which will ultimately transport them to Europe. Even in a countries that are full of war, chaos and problems, some of these boats would not go unnoticed. At a minimum, for some official, it would be a rather lucrative place to collect cash before allowing it to leave.

[Mosha]

Well call me a cynic, but the 1st of these recent sinkings made me suspicious when listening to the pinko BBC report. "They could see the lights of the port",,, and "Someone lit a fire on the boat to attract attention." Reminds of an Australian friend on his last visit, telling me of media reports of the "refugee" boats calling the Australian coastguard from Indonesian waters.

[simple1]

Well call me a cynic, but the 1st of these recent sinkings made me suspicious when listening to the pinko BBC report. "They could see the lights of the port",,, and "Someone lit a fire on the boat to attract attention." Reminds of an Australian friend on his last visit, telling me of media reports of the "refugee" boats calling the Australian coastguard from Indonesian waters.

What your friend has not told you is that Australian Coastguard or RAN cannot enter Indonesian waters without permission; the calls are from boats in distress. Often the Australians are able to respond more rapidly than Indonesia - more resources, but those saved are transferred to Indonesian vessels & returned to the mainland

Those posters who make sneering or ridiculing comments in regard to people drowning at sea are contemptible.

[oldgit]

These refugees from north Africa are far from 'freeloaders' - an easily thrown out term when people couldn't be bothered to look at why they come.

They are desperate - so desperate that the buy a inflated-price dingy and paddle, without proper oars, across to Spain, Malta & Italy. They are fleeing countries like Mali, Libya, Eritrea & Somalia - failed states (maybe not Eritrea) - where EU countries like France together with the US are involved in bombing & covert operations against various groups, some allegedly linked to Al Quaeda.

Australia is just as bad with their involvement in Iraq & Afghanistan where they had & have no business being - and wonder why refugees from those countries want to flee a war zone and pay traffickers to get to a rich country. Yes there are economic refugees which need to be weeded out but genuine refugees need some real justice.

People have died, but there is not one word of contrition and remorse of the loss of life, from the authorities of the countries these people originated from.

[Credo]

Some of those 'countries' are almost not countries. They are a geographical area denoted on a map with a name. As nations, some are failed states. Do you actually expect them to care? Do you think these people have been misled and think they are going on a luxury cruise?

The point is in whose waters did they die?

[simple1]

These refugees from north Africa are far from 'freeloaders' - an easily thrown out term when people couldn't be bothered to look at why they come.

They are desperate - so desperate that the buy a inflated-price dingy and paddle, without proper oars, across to Spain, Malta & Italy. They are fleeing countries like Mali, Libya, Eritrea & Somalia - failed states (maybe not Eritrea) - where EU countries like France together with the US are involved in bombing & covert operations against various groups, some allegedly linked to Al Quaeda.

Australia is just as bad with their involvement in Iraq & Afghanistan where they had & have no business being - and wonder why refugees from those countries want to flee a war zone and pay traffickers to get to a rich country. Yes there are economic refugees which need to be weeded out but genuine refugees need some real justice.

People have died, but there is not one word of contrition and remorse of the loss of life, from the authorities of the countries these people originated from.

Kind of underlines why people are fleeing from their home countries in the first place

[transam]

Folk should fight to make their own country better, the same as my ancestors and l did in the UK. Not take off to find an easy touch country that has been fought for, for them to milk . Sad reality but my folk paid a heavy price to look after our own.

[Scott]

An off-topic post has been deleted.

[simple1]

Folk should fight to make their own country better, the same as my ancestors and l did in the UK. Not take off to find an easy touch country that has been fought for, for them to milk . Sad reality but my folk paid a heavy price to look after our own.

Were you fighthing in your home town/country against your own government. A government that's a brutal dictatorship that owns heavy weapons, employs secret services & deaths squads that will torture, rape and kill your family if you take up arms? Kind of caught between a rock & hard place that if you do take up arms you are more likely than not, not supported and supplied by "freedom loving democracies", but obliged to rely on extremist organisations

[F430murci]

Folk should fight to make their own country better, the same as my ancestors and l did in the UK. Not take off to find an easy touch country that has been fought for, for them to milk . Sad reality but my folk paid a heavy price to look after our own.

Were you fighthing in your home town/country against your own government. A government that's a brutal dictatorship that owns heavy weapons, employs secret services & deaths squads that will torture, rape and kill your family if you take up arms? Kind of caught between a rock & hard place that if you do take up arms you are more likely than not, not supported and supplied by "freedom loving democracies", but obliged to rely on extremist organisations

Yeah, I get that, but a lot, not all, of these immigrants commit these same violent acts in their host countries from which you say they are fleeing. Perhaps they are seeking something else, not getting caught or are on the lamb. This leaves proposed host countries between the rock and the hard place and I think the proposed host countries have a duty to its own citizens.

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and replies deleted. This topic isn't about the US.