Thailand's left-hand traffic 'impedes integration'

[Tomtomtom69]

I believe this movement comes from China. When the Chiang Kong bridge opens it is expected that between 300-500, 18 wheel trucks will cross the bridge each 24 hours. The Chinese trailers are headed to Laem Chabang to ship their goods from Yunnan and surrounding provinces. Changing to engines that drive on the other side is very expensive for the Chinese. This will further be compounded when the 1 million staff of Chinese are occupying the manufacturing facility in Laos across from the Golden Triangle. Thailand is about to allow China free visas and it is the largest source of tourism. God only know what the Chinese will get in the future.

I remember this discussion on the Chiang Rai forum last year. The Chinese aren't about to drive their trucks down to Laem Chabang, you're dreaming. Thai industry isn't about to allow Chinese truck drivers with no local language skills etc. to take over their jobs - it's the Thai truck drivers that are crossing the 4th Mekong River bridge not the Chinese (when they come, they come in the form of tourists). Not only that but China isn't even in Asean. South-west China has very little industry to speak of unlike what you see in coastal southern China and distances even from Kunming to SE Asia are quite long. Most goods coming out of China will naturally continue to be shipped out of the country by sea. Also, Chinese car drivers in Thailand are perfectly happy and capable of driving on the left based on my observations. In any case, whether they're happy or not wouldn't matter for the Thais. There are about 20 million drivers in Thailand that are far more important than the trickle of trucks you have described, which as I've just mentioned are almost exclusively Thai trucks (with perhaps a small number of Lao ones too). Chinese trucks switch their goods to Thai (or occasionally Lao) trucks at the Lao-Chinese border, not the Thai border.

[VocalNeal]

Does anybody seriously believe that the Thai economy will be affected either way by which side of the roads Thai traffic (tends to ) drive on?

When moving large trucks and lots of goods across the borders, it will make a difference.

No it won't - this occurs in huge numbers in such places as the UK France crossing - the trucks there proceed all over Europe....and further.

Yep I have an old school friend who routinely drove London-Istanbul and beyond, in a truck with a steering on the RHS. In mountainous regions of Italy the trucks used to have , don't know if they still do, the steering on the RHS.

Rationale being that the driver was next to the edge of the road so could better judge that distance which is more important in the mountains than the other way around.

If one Googles FIAT 690N or 691N it is difficult to find a picture of a LHD one!

So what side of the road driven on has no effect on trade!

Edited April 2, 2014 by VocalNeal

[wilcopops]

" Changing to engines that drive on the other side is very expensive for the Chinese." - i don't understand this point - can you clarify?

[Tomtomtom69]

I believe this movement comes from China. When the Chiang Kong bridge opens it is expected that between 300-500, 18 wheel trucks will cross the bridge each 24 hours. The Chinese trailers are headed to Laem Chabang to ship their goods from Yunnan and surrounding provinces. Changing to engines that drive on the other side is very expensive for the Chinese. This will further be compounded when the 1 million staff of Chinese are occupying the manufacturing facility in Laos across from the Golden Triangle. Thailand is about to allow China free visas and it is the largest source of tourism. God only know what the Chinese will get in the future.

Exactly. This is all about 'integration' with China, not ASEAN. The most advanced ASEAN country (Singapore) and the most populous ASEAN country (Indonesia) both have left-side driving, as does that other core ASEAN country to the south of the border, Malaysia. If integration within ASEAN were the issue, the Thais should be encouraging their northern and eastern neighbours to switch to the left. This is all about China... [i, for one, am glad I won't be around 30 years from now to see what the world will be like then].

Absolute garbage. If China were instrumental in changing the sides of the road it's neighbors drive on, then India and Pakistan would be switching and even more importantly it's own territories of Hong Kong and Macau, which also drive on the left would switch. But there is no such movement in Hong Kong and no plans to do so. That's because Hong Kong and Macau both have limited areas and are not about to allow themselves to be overwhelmed by Chinese vehicles, which are restricted from entering (they need a special number plate and I think a lottery system determines if they get one. Prices are very high and the same rules apply for Hong Kong cars heading to the mainland). I have seen a few Hong Kong cars and at least one Macau car driving on the mainland, in some cases quite far inside China and they encountered no difficulty despite their steering wheels being on the right. Logistics are not in any way hampered by the current arrangement and thus there's no push for change needed.

Chinese trade from south-western China heading into Laos is a trickle of Thai-Lao trade and represents only a tiny fraction of Chinese trade heading overseas, mostly from it's sea ports to the USA, Canada, Japan, Australia and even Europe. Not only that but the development of a Kunming-Vientiane-Bangkok and eventually Malaysia-Singapore high speed rail link is what the Chinese really want - the existing road link is already good enough and what side Thailand drives on is thus completely irrelevant to the Chinese. Let's also not forget that cross-border trade using a single vehicle is not exactly commonplace in this part of the world and the side of the road a country drives on plays little part in this. Consider Vietnam and China as I have pointed out before. The Chinese REFUSE entry to Vietnamese vehicles as do the Vietnamese to the Chinese. Although border trade across the Chinese-Vietnamese border is quite significant (certainly much more so than to Laos, which does allow Chinese vehicles in) goods need to be offloaded either at the border and then carted across the border before being re-loaded onto new vehicles on the other side or at most, they may be allowed up to 1km inside each other's territory. Of all the times I've been to the Chinese-Vietnamese border crossing of Lao Cai-Hekou, one of the busiest between the 2 countries, I've only ever seen one truck crossing - in fact there are barriers on both sides to prevent vehicles from crossing - special permission would be required from customs for the barriers to be opened. People can cross no problem, as I've done, but not traffic (except bicycles). This despite both countries driving on the right. So it seems that national interests and security concerns are more important in determining whether cross-border traffic is allowed. And despite some signs that China may open up more for foreign registered vehicles after 2015, I can assure you that anyone trying to drive from Thailand to China, or even Laos to China will find they may not get much further than the Chinese border (for Thai vehicles) or Jinghong (for Lao vehicles). Exceptions have been known to occur and it has been claimed that Thai vehicles may now travel to Jinghong (although I only ever saw Lao vehicles when I went there), and now that there is a second Lao-China international crossing open in Phongsali that should allow at least Chinese and Lao vehicles to cross, but generally speaking a tour with guide has been required for foreign registered vehicles traveling into China.

Edited April 2, 2014 by Tomtomtom69

[wilcopops]

I believe this movement comes from China. When the Chiang Kong bridge opens it is expected that between 300-500, 18 wheel trucks will cross the bridge each 24 hours. The Chinese trailers are headed to Laem Chabang to ship their goods from Yunnan and surrounding provinces. Changing to engines that drive on the other side is very expensive for the Chinese. This will further be compounded when the 1 million staff of Chinese are occupying the manufacturing facility in Laos across from the Golden Triangle. Thailand is about to allow China free visas and it is the largest source of tourism. God only know what the Chinese will get in the future.

I remember this discussion on the Chiang Rai forum last year. The Chinese aren't about to drive their trucks down to Laem Chabang, you're dreaming. Thai industry isn't about to allow Chinese truck drivers with no local language skills etc. to take over their jobs - it's the Thai truck drivers that are crossing the 4th Mekong River bridge not the Chinese (when they come, they come in the form of tourists). Not only that but China isn't even in Asean. South-west China has very little industry to speak of unlike what you see in coastal southern China and distances even from Kunming to SE Asia are quite long. Most goods coming out of China will naturally continue to be shipped out of the country by sea. Also, Chinese car drivers in Thailand are perfectly happy and capable of driving on the left based on my observations. In any case, whether they're happy or not wouldn't matter for the Thais. There are about 20 million drivers in Thailand that are far more important than the trickle of trucks you have described, which as I've just mentioned are almost exclusively Thai trucks (with perhaps a small number of Lao ones too). Chinese trucks switch their goods to Thai (or occasionally Lao) trucks at the Lao-Chinese border, not the Thai border.

Tomtom - are you familiar with Europe? Foreign trucks both LHD and RHD are familiar ALL OVER the continent........ If ASEAN want a genuine free trade zone they will have to allow trucks from all those countries across all borders. ......and I can see no reason why Chinese vehicles won't be allowed too. You certainly see non-EU trucks in the EU. I've driven all over Western Europe, mostly in RHD tracks and "local knowledge" or lack of it is not a huge problem...and this was before GPS.

BTW - Although China may not need to ship a lot of goods through thailand by road, Laos especially wants sea access so I would expect to see Laos vehicles in Laem Chabang and Bangkok "any day now".

[wilcopops]

I believe this movement comes from China. When the Chiang Kong bridge opens it is expected that between 300-500, 18 wheel trucks will cross the bridge each 24 hours. The Chinese trailers are headed to Laem Chabang to ship their goods from Yunnan and surrounding provinces. Changing to engines that drive on the other side is very expensive for the Chinese. This will further be compounded when the 1 million staff of Chinese are occupying the manufacturing facility in Laos across from the Golden Triangle. Thailand is about to allow China free visas and it is the largest source of tourism. God only know what the Chinese will get in the future.

I remember this discussion on the Chiang Rai forum last year. The Chinese aren't about to drive their trucks down to Laem Chabang, you're dreaming. Thai industry isn't about to allow Chinese truck drivers with no local language skills etc. to take over their jobs - it's the Thai truck drivers that are crossing the 4th Mekong River bridge not the Chinese (when they come, they come in the form of tourists). Not only that but China isn't even in Asean. South-west China has very little industry to speak of unlike what you see in coastal southern China and distances even from Kunming to SE Asia are quite long. Most goods coming out of China will naturally continue to be shipped out of the country by sea. Also, Chinese car drivers in Thailand are perfectly happy and capable of driving on the left based on my observations. In any case, whether they're happy or not wouldn't matter for the Thais. There are about 20 million drivers in Thailand that are far more important than the trickle of trucks you have described, which as I've just mentioned are almost exclusively Thai trucks (with perhaps a small number of Lao ones too). Chinese trucks switch their goods to Thai (or occasionally Lao) trucks at the Lao-Chinese border, not the Thai border.

Tomtom - are you familiar with Europe? Foreign trucks both LHD and RHD are familiar ALL OVER the continent........ If ASEAN want a genuine free trade zone they will have to allow trucks from all those countries across all borders. ......and I can see no reason why Chinese vehicles won't be allowed too. You certainly see non-EU trucks in the EU. I've driven all over Western Europe, mostly in RHD tracks and "local knowledge" or lack of it is not a huge problem...and this was before GPS.

BTW - Although China may not need to ship a lot of goods through thailand by road, Laos especially wants sea access so I would expect to see Laos vehicles in Laem Chabang and Bangkok "any day now".

[Tomtomtom69]

" Changing to engines that drive on the other side is very expensive for the Chinese." - i don't understand this point - can you clarify?

He doesn't know what he's talking about. I've been extensively involved in Thailand to China border trade not to mention know this entire ASEAN region quite well having travelled mainly overland to all of Thailand's neighbors as many as 20 times each. I've travelled from Thailand to the Chinese border in a Lao vehicle and did so only last year. The vast majority of trucks plying the China to Thailand corridor, taking you the 250 odd km from Boten to Huay Xai are Thai registered trucks. Chinese trucks thus have no need to change anything at the Thai border because as far as I'm aware, there is no agreement that allows Chinese trucks to enter Thailand - in most cases Thai/Chinese border trade involves a change of vehicles at the Lao/Chinese border town of Boten, NOT in Huay Xai. Only private Chinese registered passenger cars and motorcycles may enter Thailand for tourism purposes, but not trucks. In any case even if Chinese trucks were allowed in, they wouldn't be changing anything. As is currently the case between Thailand and Myanmar, Thailand and Laos as well as Thailand and Cambodia, Thai trucks carry out the vast majority of cross border trade and it's typically Thai trucks that cross the border to these neighboring countries. No change of vehicles occurs at the border - even when Lao trucks enter Thailand they may do so without restrictions. It's just that the Thai trucking industry is far more efficient than that of it's neighbors hence it carries out these duties rather than the Lao or Cambodian truckers.

[VocalNeal]

I've remembered now my mate was driving for BRS Overland Iran.

EDIT I found a picture

Edited April 2, 2014 by VocalNeal

[Tomtomtom69]

I believe this movement comes from China. When the Chiang Kong bridge opens it is expected that between 300-500, 18 wheel trucks will cross the bridge each 24 hours. The Chinese trailers are headed to Laem Chabang to ship their goods from Yunnan and surrounding provinces. Changing to engines that drive on the other side is very expensive for the Chinese. This will further be compounded when the 1 million staff of Chinese are occupying the manufacturing facility in Laos across from the Golden Triangle. Thailand is about to allow China free visas and it is the largest source of tourism. God only know what the Chinese will get in the future.

I remember this discussion on the Chiang Rai forum last year. The Chinese aren't about to drive their trucks down to Laem Chabang, you're dreaming. Thai industry isn't about to allow Chinese truck drivers with no local language skills etc. to take over their jobs - it's the Thai truck drivers that are crossing the 4th Mekong River bridge not the Chinese (when they come, they come in the form of tourists). Not only that but China isn't even in Asean. South-west China has very little industry to speak of unlike what you see in coastal southern China and distances even from Kunming to SE Asia are quite long. Most goods coming out of China will naturally continue to be shipped out of the country by sea. Also, Chinese car drivers in Thailand are perfectly happy and capable of driving on the left based on my observations. In any case, whether they're happy or not wouldn't matter for the Thais. There are about 20 million drivers in Thailand that are far more important than the trickle of trucks you have described, which as I've just mentioned are almost exclusively Thai trucks (with perhaps a small number of Lao ones too). Chinese trucks switch their goods to Thai (or occasionally Lao) trucks at the Lao-Chinese border, not the Thai border.

Tomtom - are you familiar with Europe? Foreign trucks both LHD and RHD are familiar ALL OVER the continent........ If ASEAN want a genuine free trade zone they will have to allow trucks from all those countries across all borders. ......and I can see no reason why Chinese vehicles won't be allowed too. You certainly see non-EU trucks in the EU. I've driven all over Western Europe, mostly in RHD tracks and "local knowledge" or lack of it is not a huge problem...and this was before GPS.

BTW - Although China may not need to ship a lot of goods through thailand by road, Laos especially wants sea access so I would expect to see Laos vehicles in Laem Chabang and Bangkok "any day now".

I'm very familiar with Europe and i have seen both LHD and RHD trucks all over the place as you say - what I didn't know was that they could drive all the way to Saudi! I thought Turkey was the limit, or Kazakhstan if heading east (I have seen Kazakhstani registered trucks in such countries as Germany and Switzerland). Before you know it there will be Chinese trucks driving in Europe, as it's only one country further east!

In the case of ASEAN, I suspect there will be a lot of barriers put up to protect local logistics industries...this is the difference with Europe that I see, though hopefully AEC will change that. Yes Lao vehicles could drive to Laem Chabang, even now. But why don't they? It's because their fleet of vehicles is small and inefficient, that's why. However, that could change over time and one does indeed see plenty of Lao trucks in Thailand, BUT generally only in provinces not too far from the border including Udon Thani, Nong Khai, Beung Kan, Mukdaharn and Nakorn Phanom, as well as Kalasin amongst others. Conceivably Chinese trucks could be allowed to enter Thailand eventually and similarly Thai trucks heading to China (and not just fruit trucks as is currently the case). However, the Chinese are really pushing more for the Kunming-Vientiane-Bangkok high-speed rail link rather than trying to emphasize road transport.

[marko kok prong]

i would imagine any truck drivers coming here from another country,may well be too terrified to ever make a second trip.

[Fookhaht]

I'm a great defender against the " All Thais are...." mouth breathers on this forum but I have to say that if some bright government spark suggests that Thailand changes to driving on the right then it'll be vehicular genocide. I shudder at even the slightest thought.

I think they should alternate.

Odd numbered years - drive on the left.

Even numbered years - drive on the right.

The holiday period around New Year can be optional and you can drive on whichever side you like - oops, it already is.

Even a better idea...

Odd numbered license plates - drive on the left.

Even numbered license plates - drive on the right.

Blimey, it almost mimics what we already have...

[Fookhaht]

Edit: Duplicate post

Edited April 2, 2014 by Fookhaht

[wilcopops]

I believe this movement comes from China. When the Chiang Kong bridge opens it is expected that between 300-500, 18 wheel trucks will cross the bridge each 24 hours. The Chinese trailers are headed to Laem Chabang to ship their goods from Yunnan and surrounding provinces. Changing to engines that drive on the other side is very expensive for the Chinese. This will further be compounded when the 1 million staff of Chinese are occupying the manufacturing facility in Laos across from the Golden Triangle. Thailand is about to allow China free visas and it is the largest source of tourism. God only know what the Chinese will get in the future.

I remember this discussion on the Chiang Rai forum last year. The Chinese aren't about to drive their trucks down to Laem Chabang, you're dreaming. Thai industry isn't about to allow Chinese truck drivers with no local language skills etc. to take over their jobs - it's the Thai truck drivers that are crossing the 4th Mekong River bridge not the Chinese (when they come, they come in the form of tourists). Not only that but China isn't even in Asean. South-west China has very little industry to speak of unlike what you see in coastal southern China and distances even from Kunming to SE Asia are quite long. Most goods coming out of China will naturally continue to be shipped out of the country by sea. Also, Chinese car drivers in Thailand are perfectly happy and capable of driving on the left based on my observations. In any case, whether they're happy or not wouldn't matter for the Thais. There are about 20 million drivers in Thailand that are far more important than the trickle of trucks you have described, which as I've just mentioned are almost exclusively Thai trucks (with perhaps a small number of Lao ones too). Chinese trucks switch their goods to Thai (or occasionally Lao) trucks at the Lao-Chinese border, not the Thai border.

Tomtom - are you familiar with Europe? Foreign trucks both LHD and RHD are familiar ALL OVER the continent........ If ASEAN want a genuine free trade zone they will have to allow trucks from all those countries across all borders. ......and I can see no reason why Chinese vehicles won't be allowed too. You certainly see non-EU trucks in the EU. I've driven all over Western Europe, mostly in RHD tracks and "local knowledge" or lack of it is not a huge problem...and this was before GPS.

BTW - Although China may not need to ship a lot of goods through thailand by road, Laos especially wants sea access so I would expect to see Laos vehicles in Laem Chabang and Bangkok "any day now".

I'm very familiar with Europe and i have seen both LHD and RHD trucks all over the place as you say - what I didn't know was that they could drive all the way to Saudi! I thought Turkey was the limit, or Kazakhstan if heading east (I have seen Kazakhstani registered trucks in such countries as Germany and Switzerland). Before you know it there will be Chinese trucks driving in Europe, as it's only one country further east!

In the case of ASEAN, I suspect there will be a lot of barriers put up to protect local logistics industries...this is the difference with Europe that I see, though hopefully AEC will change that. Yes Lao vehicles could drive to Laem Chabang, even now. But why don't they? It's because their fleet of vehicles is small and inefficient, that's why. However, that could change over time and one does indeed see plenty of Lao trucks in Thailand, BUT generally only in provinces not too far from the border including Udon Thani, Nong Khai, Beung Kan, Mukdaharn and Nakorn Phanom, as well as Kalasin amongst others. Conceivably Chinese trucks could be allowed to enter Thailand eventually and similarly Thai trucks heading to China (and not just fruit trucks as is currently the case). However, the Chinese are really pushing more for the Kunming-Vientiane-Bangkok high-speed rail link rather than trying to emphasize road transport.

Europe has a pretty good rail system, but it still relies on roads to supply most goods. In fact trail has serious shortcomings when in comes to non-bulk loads and perishables and multi-drops.

I reckon it is only a mater of time before we see Laos trucks and others all around the country as in the EU. It's not just Laos of course all the ASEAN countries will want - or have agreed to free movement of goods.

i know that certain routes in Thailand are at present "run" by police etc who demo and "fees" off hauliers in order to use certain roads, this may also present a problem for foreign companies at present, but I can't see this carrying on for long once the ASEAN agreement is enacted.

Edited April 2, 2014 by wilcopops

[Docno]

I believe this movement comes from China. When the Chiang Kong bridge opens it is expected that between 300-500, 18 wheel trucks will cross the bridge each 24 hours. The Chinese trailers are headed to Laem Chabang to ship their goods from Yunnan and surrounding provinces. Changing to engines that drive on the other side is very expensive for the Chinese. This will further be compounded when the 1 million staff of Chinese are occupying the manufacturing facility in Laos across from the Golden Triangle. Thailand is about to allow China free visas and it is the largest source of tourism. God only know what the Chinese will get in the future.

Exactly. This is all about 'integration' with China, not ASEAN. The most advanced ASEAN country (Singapore) and the most populous ASEAN country (Indonesia) both have left-side driving, as does that other core ASEAN country to the south of the border, Malaysia. If integration within ASEAN were the issue, the Thais should be encouraging their northern and eastern neighbours to switch to the left. This is all about China... [i, for one, am glad I won't be around 30 years from now to see what the world will be like then].

Absolute garbage. If China were instrumental in changing the sides of the road it's neighbors drive on, then India and Pakistan would be switching and even more importantly it's own territories of Hong Kong and Macau, which also drive on the left would switch. But there is no such movement in Hong Kong and no plans to do so. That's because Hong Kong and Macau both have limited areas and are not about to allow themselves to be overwhelmed by Chinese vehicles, which are restricted from entering (they need a special number plate and I think a lottery system determines if they get one. Prices are very high and the same rules apply for Hong Kong cars heading to the mainland). I have seen a few Hong Kong cars and at least one Macau car driving on the mainland, in some cases quite far inside China and they encountered no difficulty despite their steering wheels being on the right. Logistics are not in any way hampered by the current arrangement and thus there's no push for change needed.

Chinese trade from south-western China heading into Laos is a trickle of Thai-Lao trade and represents only a tiny fraction of Chinese trade heading overseas, mostly from it's sea ports to the USA, Canada, Japan, Australia and even Europe. Not only that but the development of a Kunming-Vientiane-Bangkok and eventually Malaysia-Singapore high speed rail link is what the Chinese really want - the existing road link is already good enough and what side Thailand drives on is thus completely irrelevant to the Chinese. Let's also not forget that cross-border trade using a single vehicle is not exactly commonplace in this part of the world and the side of the road a country drives on plays little part in this. Consider Vietnam and China as I have pointed out before. The Chinese REFUSE entry to Vietnamese vehicles as do the Vietnamese to the Chinese. Although border trade across the Chinese-Vietnamese border is quite significant (certainly much more so than to Laos, which does allow Chinese vehicles in) goods need to be offloaded either at the border and then carted across the border before being re-loaded onto new vehicles on the other side or at most, they may be allowed up to 1km inside each other's territory. Of all the times I've been to the Chinese-Vietnamese border crossing of Lao Cai-Hekou, one of the busiest between the 2 countries, I've only ever seen one truck crossing - in fact there are barriers on both sides to prevent vehicles from crossing - special permission would be required from customs for the barriers to be opened. People can cross no problem, as I've done, but not traffic (except bicycles). This despite both countries driving on the right. So it seems that national interests and security concerns are more important in determining whether cross-border traffic is allowed. And despite some signs that China may open up more for foreign registered vehicles after 2015, I can assure you that anyone trying to drive from Thailand to China, or even Laos to China will find they may not get much further than the Chinese border (for Thai vehicles) or Jinghong (for Lao vehicles). Exceptions have been known to occur and it has been claimed that Thai vehicles may now travel to Jinghong (although I only ever saw Lao vehicles when I went there), and now that there is a second Lao-China international crossing open in Phongsali that should allow at least Chinese and Lao vehicles to cross, but generally speaking a tour with guide has been required for foreign registered vehicles traveling into China.

So please explain: when the Thais say they are considering a switch over improve "regional integration", which countries they are referring to? Not the ASEAN big players of Malaysia and Singapore, obviously. Your comment re India makes no sense as India sees itself as a key competitor of China and would of course never make a major change of this nature to facilitate trade with that country. Then you start getting into trade from the Chinese perspective, which is quite irrelevant ... why does it matter here that the Chinese do more sea trade to the US, etc, from its ports? The point here is that THAILAND is considerng the change for its own purposes, not China. As for your mention of a high-speed rail link down through Malaysia: again, the relevance to trade with China (from the Thai perspective) not clear.

[build6]

Vietnam has just 2 million cars for a population of 90 million and only about 100,000 new vehicle sales a year, compared to Thailand's 1.2 million.

...

there would be little preventing Vietnam from converting to the left because as it stands there is so little car traffic in Vietnam anyway it's like going back 50 years in time.

but they have no reason to. Why would they want to swap? There's no reason to, logical, historical or otherwise. If they changed they'd be a RHD island surrounded by LHD countries - Laos, Cambodia, China (which is what Myanmar is now). It'd be silly.

[sirineou]

In a compromise move Thais will hence forth drive in the middle of the road

[wilcopops]

I believe this movement comes from China. When the Chiang Kong bridge opens it is expected that between 300-500, 18 wheel trucks will cross the bridge each 24 hours. The Chinese trailers are headed to Laem Chabang to ship their goods from Yunnan and surrounding provinces. Changing to engines that drive on the other side is very expensive for the Chinese. This will further be compounded when the 1 million staff of Chinese are occupying the manufacturing facility in Laos across from the Golden Triangle. Thailand is about to allow China free visas and it is the largest source of tourism. God only know what the Chinese will get in the future.

Exactly. This is all about 'integration' with China, not ASEAN. The most advanced ASEAN country (Singapore) and the most populous ASEAN country (Indonesia) both have left-side driving, as does that other core ASEAN country to the south of the border, Malaysia. If integration within ASEAN were the issue, the Thais should be encouraging their northern and eastern neighbours to switch to the left. This is all about China... [i, for one, am glad I won't be around 30 years from now to see what the world will be like then].

Absolute garbage. If China were instrumental in changing the sides of the road it's neighbors drive on, then India and Pakistan would be switching and even more importantly it's own territories of Hong Kong and Macau, which also drive on the left would switch. But there is no such movement in Hong Kong and no plans to do so. That's because Hong Kong and Macau both have limited areas and are not about to allow themselves to be overwhelmed by Chinese vehicles, which are restricted from entering (they need a special number plate and I think a lottery system determines if they get one. Prices are very high and the same rules apply for Hong Kong cars heading to the mainland). I have seen a few Hong Kong cars and at least one Macau car driving on the mainland, in some cases quite far inside China and they encountered no difficulty despite their steering wheels being on the right. Logistics are not in any way hampered by the current arrangement and thus there's no push for change needed.

Chinese trade from south-western China heading into Laos is a trickle of Thai-Lao trade and represents only a tiny fraction of Chinese trade heading overseas, mostly from it's sea ports to the USA, Canada, Japan, Australia and even Europe. Not only that but the development of a Kunming-Vientiane-Bangkok and eventually Malaysia-Singapore high speed rail link is what the Chinese really want - the existing road link is already good enough and what side Thailand drives on is thus completely irrelevant to the Chinese. Let's also not forget that cross-border trade using a single vehicle is not exactly commonplace in this part of the world and the side of the road a country drives on plays little part in this. Consider Vietnam and China as I have pointed out before. The Chinese REFUSE entry to Vietnamese vehicles as do the Vietnamese to the Chinese. Although border trade across the Chinese-Vietnamese border is quite significant (certainly much more so than to Laos, which does allow Chinese vehicles in) goods need to be offloaded either at the border and then carted across the border before being re-loaded onto new vehicles on the other side or at most, they may be allowed up to 1km inside each other's territory. Of all the times I've been to the Chinese-Vietnamese border crossing of Lao Cai-Hekou, one of the busiest between the 2 countries, I've only ever seen one truck crossing - in fact there are barriers on both sides to prevent vehicles from crossing - special permission would be required from customs for the barriers to be opened. People can cross no problem, as I've done, but not traffic (except bicycles). This despite both countries driving on the right. So it seems that national interests and security concerns are more important in determining whether cross-border traffic is allowed. And despite some signs that China may open up more for foreign registered vehicles after 2015, I can assure you that anyone trying to drive from Thailand to China, or even Laos to China will find they may not get much further than the Chinese border (for Thai vehicles) or Jinghong (for Lao vehicles). Exceptions have been known to occur and it has been claimed that Thai vehicles may now travel to Jinghong (although I only ever saw Lao vehicles when I went there), and now that there is a second Lao-China international crossing open in Phongsali that should allow at least Chinese and Lao vehicles to cross, but generally speaking a tour with guide has been required for foreign registered vehicles traveling into China.

So please explain: when the Thais say they are considering a switch over improve "regional integration", which countries they are referring to? Not the ASEAN big players of Malaysia and Singapore, obviously. Your comment re India makes no sense as India sees itself as a key competitor of China and would of course never make a major change of this nature to facilitate trade with that country. Then you start getting into trade from the Chinese perspective, which is quite irrelevant ... why does it matter here that the Chinese do more sea trade to the US, etc, from its ports? The point here is that THAILAND is considerng the change for its own purposes, not China. As for your mention of a high-speed rail link down through Malaysia: again, the relevance to trade with China (from the Thai perspective) not clear.

The explanation is most likely in line with the majority of dictums from government nabobs, completely ill thought out with little or no research and no real likelihood of ever being enacted....as so many posted have pointed out already it is without any real merit.

The idea is a nonstarter for the read on an outlined in the thread, and is the brainchild of a fool.

[Tomtomtom69]

Vietnam has just 2 million cars for a population of 90 million and only about 100,000 new vehicle sales a year, compared to Thailand's 1.2 million.

...

there would be little preventing Vietnam from converting to the left because as it stands there is so little car traffic in Vietnam anyway it's like going back 50 years in time.

but they have no reason to. Why would they want to swap? There's no reason to, logical, historical or otherwise. If they changed they'd be a RHD island surrounded by LHD countries - Laos, Cambodia, China (which is what Myanmar is now). It'd be silly.

Well my point was that Thailand would encounter far more difficulty changing sides they drive on than any other neighboring country, including Vietnam, which not only have very little road infrastructure but also very few vehicles (particularly cars, buses and trucks). Those countries (apart from Myanmar) have no history of driving on the other side of the road (the left in this case) but compared to Thailand, it would be easier to convert the infrastructure and the driving habits of the locals in Laos, Vietnam and Cambodia than Thailand.

Anyway, I don't believe this poorly thought out and idiotic plan by one former minister would ever come to fruition. And as they say "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" and that applies in this case. Also, I can't imagine any time soon that there would be so many foreign registered vehicles driving in Thailand as to make it worthwhile - the few hundred Lao vehicles driving around in Isarn daily on mostly multi-lane roads are able to drive on the comparatively excellent and wide Thai roads just fine with their steering wheels on the left. I too have driven a Lao LHD vehicle into Thailand on multiple occasions, including driving to Bangkok twice. I encountered no problems apart from having to leave more space when passing/overtaking and leaning over to the passenger seat but that only applied to those few major roads in Thailand that are still two-way.

No government would seriously consider spending billions of dollars to change infrastructure and risk pissing off their local population so a few foreigners from neighboring countries (mostly tourists) don't have to lean into their passenger seats when overtaking.

Edited July 18, 2014 by Tomtomtom69