claiming uk pension here or uk

[nontabury]

There are many reasons to keep an address in the Uk. I have for 30 years.

I am not sure about this argument of being cheated etc..

People who move here know that the pension will be frozen yet still decide to do so, so why complain , when you made a decision that you knew what the consequences are..

Not sure many were complaining at 70 to the baht..

Pensioners come here not having contributed anything in taxes, yet use the roads facilities/ infrastructure and even government hospitals, police when necessary..

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Sorry! I certainly did not know of this ruling, as I think most people are unaware of it. After a couple of years living here, during which time I had stupidly informed the UK authorities of my abode, I contacted DWP to ask if I had acquired the number of years NI to be able to receive the maximum

Pension, they replied informing me that I needed another two years, again I stupidly sent them the extra money, at no time during this correspondence did they inform me that my pension would not be indexed linked. So yes I DO have the right to complain. Do you think that a private pension company would be able to get away with this, certainly not those pension companies into which the M.P's are so generously treated in their in house pension.

I retired to Thailand 10 years ago,age 61 now,and i knew about the problems living in thailand,and not able to claim increases on my state pension.If i had to live just on my atate pension i would not be here

I don't think many of us would be able to, that's not the point. What is, is the fact that the government are cheating by discriminating against us for living in certain countries. If they are going to freeze our pensions, then also freeze the pensions of those still living in the UK, after all we save the British economy approx £7,000 through not claiming health care,etc.

[ggold]

I know people in this position already. I checked these facts with an accountant and with advisors of the DWP and Inland Revenue who confirmed they are correct.

That's not to say things won't change in the future.

I think it's a disgrace that UK state pensions are not automatically increased just because you later choose to live in Thailand or elsewhere.

From what I understand this could change in the near future.

I stand corrected on this , but wasn't this denial of "Pension Increase' taken to the European Court of Human Rights in the last year or two and eventually thrown out?

I am in the same position re no increases, but also had my UK pension reduced when I came to claim it, because I had been receiving non contributory N.I. contributions based on my low or non existent earnings because I had had to stop working due to ill health, which was verifiable and proven by my records of treatment at UK specialist clinics over the years prior to moving to Thailand on health grounds. I had contributed all my life from the age of 16 and had never missed a payment, but they told me that because I had chosen to live in Thailand for the four years prior to applying for my pension aged 65 that they would not allow any of these prior payments to be accepted as contributions. I argued that I had contributed more than the required minimum percentage to obtain the full pension, but they refused to pay it, but I was told, that I could pay an additional 3,800 pounds in order to receive my full pension entitlement; which I declined to do.

I, like many other people here on the forum, think that it is unjust that we have paid Into the Pension system all of our lives only to be shxx upon when it comes to our entitlements, whilst other people can roll on into the UK never having paid a single penny into the system and claim for all kinds of 'entitlements'. Political correctness gone mad!

I thank the other posters who have given valuable info re tax in the UK and the fact that you can remove your private drawdown pension into QUROPS , which I fully intend to do now that I know about it. I don't know how many bloody battleships I bought with the horrendous

amount of tax that I paid during my working life, but I have NO intention of continuing to contribute one penny more than I legally need to to the UK's so called government. We oldies have been well and truly pixzed upon from a great height.

Another very interesting point arose when I eventually received my pension and was still arguing the reduction. I was talking to a helpful man at the overseas pensions department and he suddenly asked me " Are you Married?" and I said yes! He then said well you've not claimed for her, to which I replied that my wife who is English is 7 years younger than me and there was nothing on the original application that indicated that this was possible - at least as far as I had seen. He said that even so I was entitled to claim for her as a 'dependent' and told me to fill in the forms and send them back. He also told me that I would receive this additional 55 pounds per week backdated to the commencing date of my state pension. It transpired, that this was not the case and it was only paid from the date that they 'GRANTED' this, some 10 months later; yet another case of getting screwed. Get what you can out of them and use EVERY legal avenue to ensure that you don't pay a penny more in tax than you have to. I will certainly be revising my options now!

The problem with the State pension scheme is that, unlike private schemes, you do not build up your own fund from your contributions. Your contributions paid for other people's pensions. Your pension is paid for from current contributions. Given the state of the UK economy just now, we can expect the government to remain stubborn.

personally, I think it is only a matter of time before that state pension disappears completely, whence the move by the UK government in making people join company pension schemes etc. I stopped paying into NI once I came to Thailand. I will remember the above when it comes to making my claim in 7-8 years time.

[FiftyTwo]

personally, I think it is only a matter of time before that state pension disappears completely, whence the move by the UK government in making people join company pension schemes etc. I stopped paying into NI once I came to Thailand. I will remember the above when it comes to making my claim in 7-8 years time.

Unfortunately private pensions in the UK are a bit of a dead duck.

Most people can't afford the payments, those that can suffer poor returns and skimming from their financial advisors.

Most normal people with just a private pension will be working until they die, or living on benefits.

(This of course excludes CEOs, and bankers, etc., who aren't normal people)

I mean seriously, can you imagine a dustman or bricklayer accumulating enough in private pension contributions to ever retire?

Edited October 20, 2013 by FiftyTwo

[FiftyTwo]

personally, I think it is only a matter of time before that state pension disappears completely, whence the move by the UK government in making people join company pension schemes etc. I stopped paying into NI once I came to Thailand. I will remember the above when it comes to making my claim in 7-8 years time.

Sorry, in case you did actually mean 'company pension schemes' and not 'private pension schemes'.

Almost all company pension schemes in the UK have now closed their doors to new employees.

In about 10 years they won't exist any more (as current contributors retire).

[ggold]

personally, I think it is only a matter of time before that state pension disappears completely, whence the move by the UK government in making people join company pension schemes etc. I stopped paying into NI once I came to Thailand. I will remember the above when it comes to making my claim in 7-8 years time.

Sorry, in case you did actually mean 'company pension schemes' and not 'private pension schemes'.

Almost all company pension schemes in the UK have now closed their doors to new employees.

In about 10 years they won't exist any more (as current contributors retire).

I might be wrong, But I thought the UK government brought out legislation requiring people in work to take out some sort of pension scheme maybe just new employees! maybe not a company schemes, but some sort of scheme? Not that I would expect it to be any better than the current government pension. the only people that make out of it are the pension providers, the recipients are always ripped off.

[rayongchelsea]

Marginal contributions, for a short number of years hardly significant for less than 1% of the population.

It just a one way argument.

Although it is unfair.

If you didn't know then you should have known. I am sure you did a lot of reading on Thailand before you came here..

Except financial planning.

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[NoshowJones]

I do hope this isn't an enquiry about claiming to be in the UK and so getting your pension increased over the years in line with UK inflation versus claiming to be in the UK and having the pension amount frozen for the rest of your life. If you're resident in Thailand that would be fraud.

why whats your problem with that..these people have paid in for years,and getting what they should......chill out old boy....

Excellent post Winstonc. I could not agree more.

[NoshowJones]

As someone who informed the authorities of my residence in Thailand and who subsequently receives a non indexed pension, even though I did make NI contributions for 44 yrs. I would advice the OP to keep it secret where he now lives, and to have his pension paid into his UK bank, and in doing so he will received it indexed linked.

I'm sure some people will reply that I am encouraging fraud, well in my opion and that of tens of thousand of other pensioner who are in the same situation, the British Government committed fraud when they took my Ni from me with no intention of paying me a fully indexed pension simply because I reside in Thailand.

Another brilliant post, well said Nontabury.

[diyer]

I am currently on vacation in Thailand, but intend to live here permanently from early next year.

I'm only 60, so won't receive my state pension for another 5 years.

However I have already made extensive enquiries with the DWP and the Inland Revenue.

Everyone will have different circumstances and incomes, so my advise would be to do your own checks with relevant departments to see what works best for your situation.

Next year because I'm only 60 my income will come from renting my home and private pensions.

I'll register for self assessment for tax purposes.

No tax will be automatically taken from my private pension payments or home rental.

I can claim maintenance and agents costs against my total income and hopefully should break even without having to pay any tax.

When I'm 65 I'll receive my state pension and another private pension.

I can either notify them I am living in Thailand in which case my state pension will be frozen and I'll have to pay taxes, or;

I can claim exemption from the UK and pay no taxes there.

Theoretically I should then pay taxes in Thailand, but I won't tell if you don't

If you want to keep a UK address in order to get state pension increases, then you'll also pay taxes on your income.

You either make a clean break and live in Thailand or keep looking over your shoulder.

When considering where to have your money paid, either Thai or UK banks, consider interest rates.

The Thai banks offer a far better rate than UK banks.

Offshore banking is another option, although even their rates are lower than Thai banks.

If you spend more than 181 days in the UK then you can claim the current state pension.

Every 5 years or so, I'll visit family and stay to claim the current rate.

Even when I move back to Thailand that rate will continue.

There isn't any one answer to cover everyone.

I would make some more enquiries because you are wrong on a couple of counts.

All income derived in the UK is taxable. You will have a tax allowance and the cosde will be given to your pension provider. They will deduct tax at source.

If you become non-resident any rental income should have tax deducted at source - certainly in the case of a letting agent being used. You can apply for tax not to be deducted.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/incometax/tax-leave-uk.htm

I will stand corrected but I believe your pension increase strategy is also flawed. The increase would only apply for the duration of your stay in the UK

Form R85 from Inland Revenue.

Getting tax-free interest on savings or claiming tax back

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/incometax/tax-free-interest.htm

[FiftyTwo]

I know of 5 British pensioners who are claiming indexed linked pensions while residing in Thailand, 2 of them have been here in excess of 6 yrs, there is simple no checks in place to find out who is non resident, for Christ sake they cannot even keep records or trace of thousands of foreigners residing in the UK. The only way they can find out, is if someone informs on them. I for one would never do that, best of luck to them I say.

And there's the rub. There'll always be some bastard who might. I'd prefer to sleep at night.

The best way to keep a secret, is not tell anyone else you have a secret or what the secret is.

[ThaiLife]

Only three weeks ago, I recieved a letter prom the UK Pensions office informing me that "to prevent fraud" from April next year UK Pensions cannot be paid into an account outside UK, EU and commonwealth Countries. This will apply to new applicants only and existing foreign payments are not affected.

Can any one please provide a link or more info on this

[Madgee]

Only three weeks ago, I recieved a letter prom the UK Pensions office informing me that "to prevent fraud" from April next year UK Pensions cannot be paid into an account outside UK, EU and commonwealth Countries. This will apply to new applicants only and existing foreign payments are not affected.

Can any one please provide a link or more info on this

I think this info concerns spouses who claim a pension solely on the N.I. contributions paid by their partner.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22423878

[ThaiLife]

Only three weeks ago, I recieved a letter prom the UK Pensions office informing me that "to prevent fraud" from April next year UK Pensions cannot be paid into an account outside UK, EU and commonwealth Countries. This will apply to new applicants only and existing foreign payments are not affected.

Can any one please provide a link or more info on this

I think this info concerns spouses who claim a pension solely on the N.I. contributions paid by their partner.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22423878

Thanks for the link

I though the comment related to people who may want their UK state pension paid into their Thai bank account .

[White Tiger]

personally, I think it is only a matter of time before that state pension disappears completely, whence the move by the UK government in making people join company pension schemes etc. I stopped paying into NI once I came to Thailand. I will remember the above when it comes to making my claim in 7-8 years time.

Sorry, in case you did actually mean 'company pension schemes' and not 'private pension schemes'.

Almost all company pension schemes in the UK have now closed their doors to new employees.

In about 10 years they won't exist any more (as current contributors retire).

I might be wrong, But I thought the UK government brought out legislation requiring people in work to take out some sort of pension scheme maybe just new employees! maybe not a company schemes, but some sort of scheme? Not that I would expect it to be any better than the current government pension. the only people that make out of it are the pension providers, the recipients are always ripped off.

It's called auto-enrolment and you can find out more about it on the website of the UK Pensions Regulator here: http://www.thepensionsregulator.gov.uk/employers/what-is-automatic-enrolment.aspx

The auto-enrolment legislation applies to employers.

In short all UK employers are required to provide membership of a pension scheme for their eligible employees. This is meant to come into effect over the period between 2012 and 2018. Employees don't have to join the scheme, but unless they make a conscious decision to 'opt-out' of membership they will be automatically enrolled by their employer. The pension scheme that an employer uses for this has to meet certain qualifying criteria - again there is information about this on the Pensions Regulator's website and elsewhere in the public domain.

As FiftyTwo says, many employer schemes are closing down or no longer open to new employees. But these tend to be the traditional 'final salary' type scheme. (Most of the cost of these types of schemes falls on the employer, and for many employers it has become too expensive to provide the often very generous benefits these schemes offer). The result is that many employers are using schemes that offer 'money purchase' type benefits to meet the new auto-enrolment requirements. In 'money purchase' schemes the cost/risk is shared between the employer and the employee and there are no guarantees about the amount of pension you will eventually receive.

Whatever type of company scheme an employee is enrolled in, under current legislation the benefits it provides will be additional to the State pension.

[icare999]

You might want to take a look at this link as it relates to index-linking. If you are "officially" resident here, it appears your pension won't be indexed-linked. Thailand does not have a social security agreement with the UK(. Better to have it paid in to a UK account (or somewhere else in the EEA) and then transfer it over.

http://www.nidirect.gov.uk/state-pension-for-people-living-overseas

Why would you suggest having it paid into a UK account when someone is living in Thailand ?

It is more cost effective to have the Pension Service pay to a Thai bank account.

because like me you might still have investments in the UK and visit quite often. Its useful having cash available in UK for when you visit. Not everyone lives on measly UK pension. I also regularly transfer funds to other countries where I have bank accounts and visit regularly.

[maprao]

Buy condo in the PI establish your base there. They have an agreement with UK you will get your increases. Travel between your 2 bases in the PI and Thailand:rolleyes:

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[icare999]

Best to maintain your identity in the UK as well as you can.

Many benefits to a continued UK presence, no advantage at all to being officially in Thailand.

The banks don't like it.

Financial services don't like it.

Etc.

@Elliott

Most of the benefits recipients rarely leave the UK for extended periods.

Those of us able to live overseas are usually givers, and not the takers.

Their are many many advantages of being officially outside of the UK. No CGT tax is just one of them and provided you can satisfy certain criteria no IH tax for any assets held outside the UK. Of course if you only have a pension and no significant assets then that will not effect you. By being non resident I have saved at least 200,000 GBP in CGT tax and by also being non domiciled my dependents here will save several hundred thousand more in IH tax when I go. Although I pay Uk tax on my UK property investments, my UK dividend income is tax free as a non resident and no tax is due for any non UK assets.

So you are completely wrong for people with a high level of assets or income their are great benefits. I consider the benefits I get far outweigh the loss due to my UK government pension being frozen.

[nontabury]

Best to maintain your identity in the UK as well as you can.

Many benefits to a continued UK presence, no advantage at all to being officially in Thailand.

The banks don't like it.

Financial services don't like it.

Etc.

@Elliott

Most of the benefits recipients rarely leave the UK for extended periods.

Those of us able to live overseas are usually givers, and not the takers.

Their are many many advantages of being officially outside of the UK. No CGT tax is just one of them and provided you can satisfy certain criteria no IH tax for any assets held outside the UK. Of course if you only have a pension and no significant assets then that will not effect you. By being non resident I have saved at least 200,000 GBP in CGT tax and by also being non domiciled my dependents here will save several hundred thousand more in IH tax when I go. Although I pay Uk tax on my UK property investments, my UK dividend income is tax free as a non resident and no tax is due for any non UK assets.

So you are completely wrong for people with a high level of assets or income their are great benefits. I consider the benefits I get far outweigh the loss due to my UK government pension being frozen.

As ex-pats have most of their assets already outside the country, IH tax should not be a big issue,

And lets remember that IH tax starts at quite a high amount anyhow. As for CGT, this will only benefit a small number of people.

[Chupup]

As someone who informed the authorities of my residence in Thailand and who subsequently receives a non indexed pension, even though I did make NI contributions for 44 yrs. I would advice the OP to keep it secret where he now lives, and to have his pension paid into his UK bank, and in doing so he will received it indexed linked.

I'm sure some people will reply that I am encouraging fraud, well in my opion and that of tens of thousand of other pensioner who are in the same situation, the British Government committed fraud when they took my Ni from me with no intention of paying me a fully indexed pension simply because I reside in Thailand.

I too informed the government that I was living in Thailand. I now regret ever telling them. I was fully paid up for 48 years ,I never claimed sickness and I was never unemployed. I feel that for the last seven years the government have robbed me of what is rightfully mine.

Me to, what a mistake, but i thought i was doing the right thing, THE BRITISH GOVERNMENT STEAL 3/7THS OF OUR STATE PENSION EVERY MONTH now while we are out of the UK yet deem fit to pay migrants & asylum seekers who have paid sweet FA into the system MORE than pensioners who do live in the UK and in quite a few cases house them in BETTER houses than some working people can afford !!.HAD I BEEN AWARE OF THIS WHEN I FIRST BECAME A PENSIONER NO WAY WOULD I HAVE INFORMED THEM as this system is morally unjust and discriminates against us just because we wish to live in Thailand

[FiftyTwo]

I never got the hang of telling my government stuff about my personal life.

Not their business, can't understand why anyone would do it.

@Icare99

You do understand none of your investments and pensions are protected by the FSA, now you are no longer resident in the UK.

[Jip99]

Best to maintain your identity in the UK as well as you can.

Many benefits to a continued UK presence, no advantage at all to being officially in Thailand.

The banks don't like it.

Financial services don't like it.

Etc.

@Elliott

Most of the benefits recipients rarely leave the UK for extended periods.

Those of us able to live overseas are usually givers, and not the takers.

Their are many many advantages of being officially outside of the UK. No CGT tax is just one of them and provided you can satisfy certain criteria no IH tax for any assets held outside the UK. Of course if you only have a pension and no significant assets then that will not effect you. By being non resident I have saved at least 200,000 GBP in CGT tax and by also being non domiciled my dependents here will save several hundred thousand more in IH tax when I go. Although I pay Uk tax on my UK property investments, my UK dividend income is tax free as a non resident and no tax is due for any non UK assets.

So you are completely wrong for people with a high level of assets or income their are great benefits. I consider the benefits I get far outweigh the loss due to my UK government pension being frozen.

Not wishing to be a pedant, but technically your UK dividend income is not tax free. A 10% tax rate has already been paid by the company and that 'tax credit' means that no one paying standard rate tax has any further liability. Where you benefit, as a non-resident for tax purposes, is where income levels fall into a higher tax bracket - as a non-resident you have no further liability to UK tax. Obviously, this income should be declared with the Thai tax authorities (if it is brought into Thailand in the year it is paid)

[Keesters]

Only three weeks ago, I recieved a letter prom the UK Pensions office informing me that "to prevent fraud" from April next year UK Pensions cannot be paid into an account outside UK, EU and commonwealth Countries. This will apply to new applicants only and existing foreign payments are not affected.

So what happens if you don't have a UK, EU or commonwealth account. Do they keep the money you're entitled to?

Any advice on opening a UK account without actually visiting there appreciated.

[ThaiLife]

Only three weeks ago, I recieved a letter prom the UK Pensions office informing me that "to prevent fraud" from April next year UK Pensions cannot be paid into an account outside UK, EU and commonwealth Countries. This will apply to new applicants only and existing foreign payments are not affected.

So what happens if you don't have a UK, EU or commonwealth account. Do they keep the money you're entitled to?

Any advice on opening a UK account without actually visiting there appreciated.

I'm still confused

Can any one please confirm this , and what happens if some one does not have a UK / EU bank account , ive not managed to find any direct links to this April 2014 fraud prevention directive that directly relates to a UK pension not being paid into a bank out side the Uk / EU .

[simon43]

Rather than start a new thread, perhaps I can ask my question here.

I left the UK in 2002 to live in Thailand. Prior to that date, I worked in the UK in a variety of employed and self-employed or contractor roles. My NI contributions were therefore 'all over the place', with some contributions from me/my employer, some from my own ltd contractor company and probably some not made at all!

I certainly have not paid enough contributions to receive a full state pension, and I have been considering whether or not I should (or am eligible) to pay voluntary 'top-up' NI contributions.

My concern is that if I do so, I may receive nothing in return when I reach retirement age (I'm 54 years old now), because I suspect that the government kitty will be empty from paying out to the EU economic migrants thathave invaded the UK...

What's your opinion? Is it worth the risk to contribute voluntarily into the NI system, (to possibly receive nothing in return or at best, a frozen, non-index-linked pension for my retirement in Thailand?

Simon

[bedbugy]

for me i WOULD not pay vol contributions

i would open an account with the government saving bank and invest in the lottery there you dont loose your money or stake you get a good return after 3 years and there is a draw each 16th of each month you will get a better return than the uk praty government

[AbeSurd]

Form R85 from Inland Revenue.

Getting tax-free interest on savings or claiming tax back

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/incometax/tax-free-interest.htm

I think the problem here is that many UK bank and building society savings accounts are only for UK residents. Filling in the R85 tells the UK bank or building society that you're not a UK resident. They'll then tell you you have to change/close your savings account.

I have no personal experience of this - but this is what I assume happens in a lot of instances. I may be wrong.

[uptheos]

The good old UK Government.

Trying to trap a fly to save money, whilst the big rats go in the back door and cost billions.

[rayongchelsea]

Rather than start a new thread, perhaps I can ask my question here.

I left the UK in 2002 to live in Thailand. Prior to that date, I worked in the UK in a variety of employed and self-employed or contractor roles. My NI contributions were therefore 'all over the place', with some contributions from me/my employer, some from my own ltd contractor company and probably some not made at all!

I certainly have not paid enough contributions to receive a full state pension, and I have been considering whether or not I should (or am eligible) to pay voluntary 'top-up' NI contributions.

My concern is that if I do so, I may receive nothing in return when I reach retirement age (I'm 54 years old now), because I suspect that the government kitty will be empty from paying out to the EU economic migrants thathave invaded the UK...

What's your opinion? Is it worth the risk to contribute voluntarily into the NI system, (to possibly receive nothing in return or at best, a frozen, non-index-linked pension for my retirement in Thailand?

Simon

You will be entitled to a pro- rata portion of the state pension at the age of 66.

It will be how many years you have contributed divided by 30.

So you will be entitled to something.

I don't think the government will make further changes other than to push back entitlement by the 1 year which they have for our age group.

I pay voluntary contributions, it is just makes sense based on your contributions to date plus can pay back 6 years prior..compared to any annuity out there.

Everything is a risk..you might not get to 66.

One thing is obvious it should not be your main source of income on retirement, but as part of a portfolio of investments well worth the deal..

First step is to get a forecast of your pension entitlements as of now. Very straight forward as long as you know your national insurance number. ( easy to google).

[rayongchelsea]

Form R85 from Inland Revenue.

Getting tax-free interest on savings or claiming tax back

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/incometax/tax-free-interest.htm

I think the problem here is that many UK bank and building society savings accounts are only for UK residents. Filling in the R85 tells the UK bank or building society that you're not a UK resident. They'll then tell you you have to change/close your savings account.

I have no personal experience of this - but this is what I assume happens in a lot of instances. I may be wrong.

Not in my experience and I have hardly lived in the uk.

I think trying to open a new one when outside the uk might be nigh impossible.

[KittenKong]

Form R85 from Inland Revenue.

Getting tax-free interest on savings or claiming tax back

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/incometax/tax-free-interest.htm

I think the problem here is that many UK bank and building society savings accounts are only for UK residents. Filling in the R85 tells the UK bank or building society that you're not a UK resident. They'll then tell you you have to change/close your savings account.

The information given previously about R85 is totally incorrect. This form is for persons resident in the UK who have income below the level of the personal allowance and who thus qualify to receive their interest gross rather than net. It is not designed for non-resident persons at all and cannot be used by non-residents.

Non-residents can fill in form R105 which (if accepted by their savings institution, not all will) will enable them to receive interest paid gross based on them being non-resident. As you mention, anyone doing so should be aware that submitting this form to a UK savings institution is tantamount to telling them that they no longer live in the UK, and that some (but by no means all) savings institutions may see this as a reason to close the account.

Either way, income arising in the UK such as pensions, rent, salary etc etc is still subject to UK income tax regardless of where you live and must be declared in the UK. Only dividend income, savings interest and gilts coupons are not liable to any extra UK tax above the amount deducted at source.

Any non-resident who receives interest paid net of UK tax can apply to have the interest refunded using form R40. The amount refunded will depend on the level of any other UK income and the personal allowance.