Thai-Danish 7-year-old to be deported from Denmark

[DrDweeb]

My point here is that if a nation grants probationary partner- or family supported resident permits, this shouldn't - and in most countries doesn't - alter an initial decision to grant probational residency.

For instance, numerous immigrants are granted probational residency in UK based on relationship or as relatives. Should UK deport those who immigrated on these conditions if the settled relative or partner suddenly dies? Of course not. And this is also the majority of nations in Europe manage immigration matters like this.

In this situation, we may curtail (cancel) your former partner's permission to stay in the UK. However, this will not automatically happen if the basis of their stay has changed - for example, they may qualify for permission to stay on a different basis, or there may be other compassionate or relevant reasons why it would not be appropriate to curtail their stay.

One of the more interesting cases from a legal perspective is when a partner enters UK as a partner to a UK citizen and later becomes subject to criminal acts (rape, domestic violence etc.) by the UK citizen. If the partnership ends should the immigrating partner now be deported because the conditions no longer applies?

When I read a few posters and their opinions - to which they are fully entitled, of course - I get the impression the money factor triggers the reptile brains.

Exactly

There can be numerous reasons why a relationship fails. Of course, the fact that a husband dies, leading to an instant deportation can be good for the husband's life expectancy.

I.e. Never tell your Thai wife in Thailand if you have a big life insurance policy.

Thing is, for all the cynical behaviour that does go on to obtain visas and access, to slam down on someone who had apparently done nothing wrong and only been caught up in this due to personal tragedy seems incredibly harsh.

I haven't bothered to see what has been written in the Danish press on this matter, however one should be aware that there is exactly one message being communicated here. To wit, the message that the family's lawyer wishes to send. A message designed to garner sympathy and support. Newspapers like to carry this sort of soppy human interest story because it sells. It is hardly investigative journalsim and this sort of story rarely descends to balance.

Things are rarely as simple as they seem at first flush, and it behooves the independent observer to remind him/herself of that before taking a position.

I can easily construct any number of scenarios completely consistent with the information we have from this article, that would have the entire body of Thai Visa commentards on the barricades demanding her immediate deportation.

[benalibina]

My point here is that if a nation grants probationary partner- or family supported resident permits, this shouldn't - and in most countries doesn't - alter an initial decision to grant probational residency.

For instance, numerous immigrants are granted probational residency in UK based on relationship or as relatives. Should UK deport those who immigrated on these conditions if the settled relative or partner suddenly dies? Of course not. And this is also the majority of nations in Europe manage immigration matters like this.

In this situation, we may curtail (cancel) your former partner's permission to stay in the UK. However, this will not automatically happen if the basis of their stay has changed - for example, they may qualify for permission to stay on a different basis, or there may be other compassionate or relevant reasons why it would not be appropriate to curtail their stay.

One of the more interesting cases from a legal perspective is when a partner enters UK as a partner to a UK citizen and later becomes subject to criminal acts (rape, domestic violence etc.) by the UK citizen. If the partnership ends should the immigrating partner now be deported because the conditions no longer applies?

When I read a few posters and their opinions - to which they are fully entitled, of course - I get the impression the money factor triggers the reptile brains.

Exactly

There can be numerous reasons why a relationship fails. Of course, the fact that a husband dies, leading to an instant deportation can be good for the husband's life expectancy.

I.e. Never tell your Thai wife in Thailand if you have a big life insurance policy.

Thing is, for all the cynical behaviour that does go on to obtain visas and access, to slam down on someone who had apparently done nothing wrong and only been caught up in this due to personal tragedy seems incredibly harsh.

I haven't bothered to see what has been written in the Danish press on this matter, however one should be aware that there is exactly one message being communicated here. To wit, the message that the family's lawyer wishes to send. A message designed to garner sympathy and support. Newspapers like to carry this sort of soppy human interest story because it sells. It is hardly investigative journalsim and this sort of story rarely descends to balance.

Things are rarely as simple as they seem at first flush, and it behooves the independent observer to remind him/herself of that before taking a position.

I can easily construct any number of scenarios completely consistent with the information we have from this article, that would have the entire body of Thai Visa commentards on the barricades demanding her immediate deportation.

Sticking to the law, the intent of it, the logic behind it and compassion ?

All that blethering about the languages the girl speaks, whats up with you guys ?

[David48]

Sticking to the law, the intent of it, the logic behind it and compassion ?

All that blethering about the languages the girl speaks, whats up with you guys ?

It goes to the credibility of the mother who, as family has stated ... "The family maintains that ... Im has lived in Denmark for approximately half her life, does not speak Thai,"

Many of us are saying that, a child who has lived half their life in Thailand and by the age of 3 1/2 would have a fair comprehension of her native language, having been surrounded by it from birth.

[David48]

The real Forethat ... please step forward and identify yourself.

And if you feel it's relevant to your credibility to identify yourself, please go ahead and do so - though I won't expect or ask for it since it would make me look like a pathetic clown.

There are those here who have formed that opinion already ...

.

[Forethat]

The real Forethat ... please step forward and identify yourself.

And if you feel it's relevant to your credibility to identify yourself, please go ahead and do so - though I won't expect or ask for it since it would make me look like a pathetic clown.

There are those here who have formed that opinion already ...

.

You've never been right about anything until now, why would this be any different...?

[David48]

Since you're already showing signs of being a stalker,

You flatter yourself ... really ...

Stalker ...

If you post, the members of the Forum have the right of reply.

I like to discuss issues, but it seems that you wish to personalise this.

As I said in a previous posts between you and me ...

Everyone has opinions, they are not factually based, they're opinions. Yours are different apparently to mine.

Doesn't make me right and you wrong, or visa-versa ... opinions are what they are.

I walked away from making this a discussion between you and me once ... and I'll do that again.

If you would like to demonstrate your 'realms of sarcasm', by all means, please, be my quest.

I'd prefer however, to listen to all the members take on what is acknowledged as a delicate situation.

We all have opinions, yours and mine are just single trees in that Forest.

Cheers ... .

Stalker ... you flatter yourself ... really ...

.

[Forethat]

Stalker ... you flatter yourself ... really ...

.

Well, considering you exercised the option of trawling my historical posts using this forums search feature and still ended up getting all the facts and assumptions wrong - even though the correct answer was there in black and white - I guess Stalker was a bit harsh since one of them probably had gotten the facts right.

What if we agree on "charmingly clumsy", does that float your boat?

[David48]

Stalker ... you flatter yourself ... really ...

.

Well, considering you exercised the option of trawling my historical posts using this forums search feature ...

I think you will discover that Forethat is more then tradition perception allows ...

[benalibina]

I reckon the 2 people only involved in this matter in Denmark, mother and daughter, must be evenmore convinced, after reading this thread of foreigners with a relationship to Thailand; please, please let us stay here in all sanity !!

[DrDweeb]

Sticking to the law, the intent of it, the logic behind it and compassion ?

All that blethering about the languages the girl speaks, whats up with you guys ?

It goes to the credibility of the mother who, as family has stated ... "The family maintains that ... Im has lived in Denmark for approximately half her life, does not speak Thai,"

Many of us are saying that, a child who has lived half their life in Thailand and by the age of 3 1/2 would have a fair comprehension of her native language, having been surrounded by it from birth.

In fact, the language issue goes to the heart of the matter. Local language proficiency is a heavily weighted factor when determining the level (or lack) of integration an individual has attained. Loss of mother tongue similarly weighs in favour of being allowed to stay in the adopted country. The message being sent by the lawyer here is carefully curated - make no mistake of this fact.

This is by no means unique to Denmark. I remember many years ago an Australian lawyer acquaintance was arguing before the court a deportation case - she lost. A very compelling factor in the outcome was that the individual had simply never learned to speak English, despite more than a decade in Australia. Since he still had his mother toungue, he was not able to claim there would be issues were he deported to his homeland.

[benalibina]

Sticking to the law, the intent of it, the logic behind it and compassion ?

All that blethering about the languages the girl speaks, whats up with you guys ?

It goes to the credibility of the mother who, as family has stated ... "The family maintains that ... Im has lived in Denmark for approximately half her life, does not speak Thai,"

Many of us are saying that, a child who has lived half their life in Thailand and by the age of 3 1/2 would have a fair comprehension of her native language, having been surrounded by it from birth.

In fact, the language issue goes to the heart of the matter. Local language proficiency is a heavily weighted factor when determining the level (or lack) of integration an individual has attained. Loss of mother tongue similarly weighs in favour of being allowed to stay in the adopted country. The message being sent by the lawyer here is carefully curated - make no mistake of this fact.

This is by no means unique to Denmark. I remember many years ago an Australian lawyer acquaintance was arguing before the court a deportation case - she lost. A very compelling factor in the outcome was that the individual had simply never learned to speak English, despite more than a decade in Australia. Since he still had his mother toungue, he was not able to claim there would be issues were he deported to his homeland.

From humanitarian point of view the case is clear for me. Whatever lawfull reasons 1 can argue to impose their deportation there are human reasons to let them stay. A case like this proves the more that civilization in the western world is on a downhill road. Xenophobia is reigning and in this case for the wrong reasons. The 1s blethering the loudest about deportation are the same 1s blethering the loudest about the illogic/inhumane thai immigrationlaws.

Strange !!!

I am out.....

[Thai at Heart]

My point here is that if a nation grants probationary partner- or family supported resident permits, this shouldn't - and in most countries doesn't - alter an initial decision to grant probational residency.

For instance, numerous immigrants are granted probational residency in UK based on relationship or as relatives. Should UK deport those who immigrated on these conditions if the settled relative or partner suddenly dies? Of course not. And this is also the majority of nations in Europe manage immigration matters like this.

In this situation, we may curtail (cancel) your former partner's permission to stay in the UK. However, this will not automatically happen if the basis of their stay has changed - for example, they may qualify for permission to stay on a different basis, or there may be other compassionate or relevant reasons why it would not be appropriate to curtail their stay.

One of the more interesting cases from a legal perspective is when a partner enters UK as a partner to a UK citizen and later becomes subject to criminal acts (rape, domestic violence etc.) by the UK citizen. If the partnership ends should the immigrating partner now be deported because the conditions no longer applies?

When I read a few posters and their opinions - to which they are fully entitled, of course - I get the impression the money factor triggers the reptile brains.

Exactly

There can be numerous reasons why a relationship fails. Of course, the fact that a husband dies, leading to an instant deportation can be good for the husband's life expectancy.

I.e. Never tell your Thai wife in Thailand if you have a big life insurance policy.

Thing is, for all the cynical behaviour that does go on to obtain visas and access, to slam down on someone who had apparently done nothing wrong and only been caught up in this due to personal tragedy seems incredibly harsh.

I haven't bothered to see what has been written in the Danish press on this matter, however one should be aware that there is exactly one message being communicated here. To wit, the message that the family's lawyer wishes to send. A message designed to garner sympathy and support. Newspapers like to carry this sort of soppy human interest story because it sells. It is hardly investigative journalsim and this sort of story rarely descends to balance.

Things are rarely as simple as they seem at first flush, and it behooves the independent observer to remind him/herself of that before taking a position.

I can easily construct any number of scenarios completely consistent with the information we have from this article, that would have the entire body of Thai Visa commentards on the barricades demanding her immediate deportation.

As I said, it seems. She could be a money grabbing bitch, but unless there is any evidence to the contrary, I prefer to believe she isn't.

So all else being equal, it seems harsh.

[AYJAYDEE]

Always difficult, when children are involved!

But the headline should have read : Thai woman and her Thai daughter to be deported!

Think the Danish government got tired of people abusing the welfaresystem!

she was ABUSING the system? how so?

[brianmarinus]

I can now tell you that after all the danes made several groups to help the litle family to come back to denmark the goverment had a meeting yesterday evening and decided to change the law so that they can come back to denmark - a massive support and protest from danes helped this litle family - one group alone had over 100K members.Tushida can now continue her study and her daugther Im can continue her school and come back to her friends and grand parents.

To those who had daubts about Tushida-she is a good person and when people where talking about collect monye for the family she refused.

Today everyone in denmark are happy - and a bit proud again after a long time being ashamed being a dane,not only regarding this storie but all the racist tones wich have been a great part of danish politic for several years.

Feeling good today!

[nrasmussen]

I can now tell you that after all the danes made several groups to help the litle family to come back to denmark the goverment had a meeting yesterday evening and decided to change the law so that they can come back to denmark - a massive support and protest from danes helped this litle family - one group alone had over 100K members.Tushida can now continue her study and her daugther Im can continue her school and come back to her friends and grand parents.

To those who had daubts about Tushida-she is a good person and when people where talking about collect monye for the family she refused.

Today everyone in denmark are happy - and a bit proud again after a long time being ashamed being a dane,not only regarding this storie but all the racist tones wich have been a great part of danish politic for several years.

Feeling good today!

For once common sense and decency prevailed. Not so bad to be a Dane today.

[benalibina]

Lets hope humanity will spread out to other countries in Europe. Many more cases where families living apart due to harsh immigrationregulations.

[Forethat]

As a Dane I'm ashamed on behalf of the DK Immigration authorities.

On the other hand, the matter has yet to be decided. The humanitarian grounds card is currently being played if I understand things correctly..? Slim chance, but...

I hate being right all the time.

Good thing someone at the Danish Immigration brought his/her brain to the office.

Edited November 14, 2013 by Forethat

[David48]

As a Dane I'm ashamed on behalf of the DK Immigration authorities.

On the other hand, the matter has yet to be decided. The humanitarian grounds card is currently being played if I understand things correctly..? Slim chance, but...

I hate being right all the time.

Good thing someone at the Danish Immigration brought his/her brain to the office.

What a load of BS!

I like Forethat ... he's a nice guy ... (I presume the member is a he ... can he confirm that to save my fingers typing) but he is espousing BS with a capital 'B' ... so we disagree on this issue.

Imagine this for a second. I'm a Immigration Officer and a Muslim (or feel free to choose any religion of your persuasion... it's my faith, I sworn to the faith ... my allegiance) and my allegiance is stronger to Allah then to my adopted country.

A 'brother' has presented himself to me at the Immigration Checkpoint ... he's on the BlackList ... but I know him ... he's not a radical ... he's just misunderstood. Sure he spent a bit of time in jail for firebombing that car ... but he was just angry ... I'll over-ride my compulsion to State and Country ... and allow my allegiance to Faith and Culture over-ride that.

Go on ... enter Denmark ... and be a nice guy this time ... OK?

So, the point of the emotive post above is ... under the existing Laws of the Country, does the person in question contravene the Immigration Laws of the Country?

Now, I'm not making any case for, or against the rights and wrongs of the case in question but ...

If the Law states that this, the woman can't stay in the Country, is not allowed ... change the Law ... don't vilify the Immigration Officer or the Judge who made the ruling.

If the weight of public opinion changes the Law ... great.

But to say that "someone at the Danish Immigration brought his/her brain to the office" is BS of the highest order.

If you give the Immigration Officers the discretion to pick and choose those who should and not who should not enter or stay in the country ... you are inviting corruption ... not compassion.

Change the Rules ... not vilify the Immigration Officer or the Judge who made the ruling.

.

[thaibeachlovers]

Technically they are right, but come on I can just hear the foreigners here complaining if an elderly farang is deported because his wife dies and now he needs to have 800k in the bank.

Sometimes reason should speak, those two had ties in Denmark and it is already hard that their father / husband has died and now they are deported too after having lived there for so long. I think deaths like this should be a special case.

I fail to see why having to conform to the law aof the land is worthy of complaining about. Can't he find some other Thai girl to marry, if he doesn't want to pay the going price for a retirement visa?

As for the OP, good on Denmark for finally enforcing their laws and not bending over to take all the PC BS. Thailand isn't going to persecute the deportee. In fact, most of us reading this WANT to live in Thailand.

Edited November 15, 2013 by thaibeachlovers

[nrasmussen]

As a Dane I'm ashamed on behalf of the DK Immigration authorities.

On the other hand, the matter has yet to be decided. The humanitarian grounds card is currently being played if I understand things correctly..? Slim chance, but...

I hate being right all the time.

Good thing someone at the Danish Immigration brought his/her brain to the office.

This has nothing to do with Danish Immigration authorities. They just followed the law.

What happens now is that the Danish parliament is changing the law retroactively.