The Good The Bad & The Ugly - What makes a photograph?

[Dancealot]

Looks like a banana to me

R.I.P. Lou Reed.

No, It is not a smoking pipe. Genius.

[Goshawk]

Some excellent original posts so far.....precisely what i was hoping for with post #1

I feel like i've sort of introduced, or switched on, an oscillating vibration over the skin of a drum (TV 'tog forum) covered in previously random sand grains (the members) - The initial patterns produced are quite revealing.....a certain grouping quickly collects over here, another grouping swiftly assembles over there, some are slowly dancing around between the two.

as Spock might say.... fascinating.

[sunshine51]

As a newbie and enthousaist, I would like to add every single one of you who posted here have shown me a new world, I couldn't possibly have discovered by myself.

Thank you.

Isn't discovery wonderful?!

Feel free to PM me on any questions you have; anytime.

[watutsi]

You can read all the bumf ever written about photography but it is not going to improve your picture taking. The proof of the pudding of course is in pictures, firstly immerse yourself in pictures, millions of them, of every genre , fashion ,street, wildlife, reportage, advertising, etc.Try and understand why a picture is regarded as great as opposed to good,Figure out how it was taken, it dosn't matter how wrong you are, you have just created a new way to take a picture. Go out and take lots of pictures, don,t doddle, just shoot , you only get one chance in every lifetime to shoot that particular moment.In another post i said that luck was the secret weapon of all photographers, but there is another secret weapon , editing. Discard everything you are not sure of, then do it again then do it again,if you are left with 1 picture at the end of it all, it is a big success.

Nothing like winding up with a blatant cliche but studying one good picture will tell you more than thousands of words of photographic thesis .

[canuckamuck]

A million years ago back in Art College, we would have critiques of each other's work continually. Several times a week we would post images in front of the group and we would listen to some very frank and aggressive criticism. Sometimes a professor would even rip an image in half (particularly if there were focus issues). Those of us who took it in stride and listened carefully, grew into better photographers. Those that couldn't handle it became defensive and stagnated.

Unfortunately we cannot have the same type of critiques here, because people are too sensitive. But my advice to all photographers is to keep searching for criticism, some of it will be useless, but you will find a grain of truth in all of it.

[MJP]

A million years ago back in Art College, we would have critiques of each other's work continually. Several times a week we would post images in front of the group and we would listen to some very frank and aggressive criticism. Sometimes a professor would even rip an image in half (particularly if there were focus issues). Those of us who took it in stride and listened carefully, grew into better photographers. Those that couldn't handle it became defensive and stagnated.

Unfortunately we cannot have the same type of critiques here, because people are too sensitive. But my advice to all photographers is to keep searching for criticism, some of it will be useless, but you will find a grain of truth in all of it.

I'd be grateful for aggressive critiques of photos I post here. It would help me.

[willyumiii]

For me it's the idea of the photo. If there is something unexpected, the better.

that is interesting.... an image that lies? Thanks for that oilinki.

Art is propaganda.

Something that makes you believe it is what it is not.

A photo? A piece of paper that looks like a landscape, portrait or..something other than paper.

A painting? The same on canvas.

Sculpture? A rock that looks like something other than a rock.

It's all propaganda.

[MJP]

For me it's the idea of the photo. If there is something unexpected, the better.

that is interesting.... an image that lies? Thanks for that oilinki.

Art is propaganda.

Something that makes you believe it is what it is not.

A photo? A piece of paper that looks like a landscape, portrait or..something other than paper.

A painting? The same on canvas.

Sculpture? A rock that looks like something other than a rock.

It's all propaganda.

[MJP]

The thing with good photographs is you've got to be there to take them.

This, to me, is a good photograph.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-24653643

Edited October 29, 2013 by MJP

[Kan Win]

As a newbie and enthousaist, I would like to add every single one of you who posted here have shown me a new world, I couldn't possibly have discovered by myself.

Thank you.

Tks-a-lot

Who else could post this, but

Kan Win

[watutsi]

For me it's the idea of the photo. If there is something unexpected, the better.

that is interesting.... an image that lies? Thanks for that oilinki.

Art is propaganda.

Something that makes you believe it is what it is not.

A photo? A piece of paper that looks like a landscape, portrait or..something other than paper.

A painting? The same on canvas.

Sculpture? A rock that looks like something other than a rock.

It's all propaganda.

sorry willy this thread is for people with a mental age above 12, come back when you have something to say.

[villagefarang]

I shoot while riding my bike, and for me, success is not having one remaining shot at the end of the day. It is having a multitude of memories and having seen things, which I may not have seen, without the aid of my camera. Some images make it to the computer, while others only exist in the neural pathways of my mind.

Carrying a camera on my mountain bike rides just adds to the joy and exertion of riding the trails, and the day it becomes work or distracts from that joy, is the day I will begin leaving it at home in the closet. You can suffer for you art if you choose but for me it is fun or none.

I am getting too old to do things to please others but if it brings me joy, perhaps it will do the same for others, so I share. For me photography is not a serious thing used to beat others over the head in a show of dominance or superiority.

[Goshawk]

A million years ago back in Art College, we would have critiques of each other's work continually. Several times a week we would post images in front of the group and we would listen to some very frank and aggressive criticism. Sometimes a professor would even rip an image in half (particularly if there were focus issues). Those of us who took it in stride and listened carefully, grew into better photographers. Those that couldn't handle it became defensive and stagnated.

Unfortunately we cannot have the same type of critiques here, because people are too sensitive. But my advice to all photographers is to keep searching for criticism, some of it will be useless, but you will find a grain of truth in all of it.

+1 ..honest advice and wise observation from canuckamuck.

[watutsi]

I shoot while riding my bike, and for me, success is not having one remaining shot at the end of the day. It is having a multitude of memories and having seen things, which I may not have seen, without the aid of my camera. Some images make it to the computer, while others only exist in the neural pathways of my mind.

Carrying a camera on my mountain bike rides just adds to the joy and exertion of riding the trails, and the day it becomes work or distracts from that joy, is the day I will begin leaving it at home in the closet. You can suffer for you art if you choose but for me it is fun or none.

I am getting too old to do things to please others but if it brings me joy, perhaps it will do the same for others, so I share. For me photography is not a serious thing used to beat others over the head in a show of dominance or superiority.

It seems to me it is you who is always beating people over the head with your holier than thou preaching

-for arguments sake i am assuming you are a farmer and this is something you care about.That after preparing ,leveling the ground and planting, you are excited when the first shoots appear and even more so when it is a quality crop.That you are disappointed when you see careless and uncaring farming practices when it is just as easy to do it correctly.

If i turned up on the Farming Forum saying why are you guys so hung up about getting it right , it's only farming, you don't have to try too hard, just enjoy the digging , it's therapeutic it dosn't matter if anything grows, you might assume i am a self absorbed prick with no empathy.

[villagefarang]

Sorry I am not a farmer and never have been. I do recognize someone in those last six words, however.

I am not saying you can’t have your own opinion, I am just saying I do not agree that it is the only way of looking at things.

Edited October 30, 2013 by villagefarang

[willyumiii]

For me it's the idea of the photo. If there is something unexpected, the better.

that is interesting.... an image that lies? Thanks for that oilinki.

Art is propaganda.

Something that makes you believe it is what it is not.

A photo? A piece of paper that looks like a landscape, portrait or..something other than paper.

A painting? The same on canvas.

Sculpture? A rock that looks like something other than a rock.

It's all propaganda.

sorry willy this thread is for people with a mental age above 12, come back when you have something to say.

Your comments are always so insightful, intellectual and mature Watutsi!

Thank you so much for the constructive input.

You have changed my outlook on life, art and TV posters!

I am an avid photographer.

I should have known that the concept of art being propaganda ( one I learned in school ) could be beyond the reach of some TV posters

Do you have any examples of your photography or any artwork you could share with those not on your level yet?

Here is an example of mine.

I only hope it is not too far below your standards.

I have a great shot of a jack ass I took last month, but figure you see one of those daily.

Try some camels instead!

Thanks again for the constructive comment!

Edited October 30, 2013 by willyumiii

[Guest]

It seems to me it is you who is always beating people over the head with your holier than thou preaching

-for arguments sake i am assuming you are a farmer and this is something you care about.That after preparing ,leveling the ground and planting, you are excited when the first shoots appear and even more so when it is a quality crop.That you are disappointed when you see careless and uncaring farming practices when it is just as easy to do it correctly.

If i turned up on the Farming Forum saying why are you guys so hung up about getting it right , it's only farming, you don't have to try too hard, just enjoy the digging , it's therapeutic it dosn't matter if anything grows, you might assume i am a self absorbed prick with no empathy.

I'm quite sure that villagefarang would in that case have wisdom to put things in perspective. The farming for you would be a hobby, which gives you a real joy.

Is there a reason for an corporate farmer to put the person who is learning to garden his 4m2 field down? Is there a reason to do the same in photography?

For me your attitude towards others is what could be described as teenager thug coming to kindergarten to bully the younger kids. Someone trying to push others down and thinks that it would increase his or hers status. Boy or a girl who thinks he/she is on the top of the world, but still lack the wisdom of the life.

I have seen the same attitude in tech forums. Nerds who are laughing to the people who are just learning how to use new operating system. It saddens me every time. That behavior is kind of ok on the very higher levels, where the game is hard and people in general are on the same page, but it should never be visible on the user levels.

Edited October 30, 2013 by Guest

[willyumiii]

For me it's the idea of the photo. If there is something unexpected, the better. When a image makes me think and then giggle, it has done it's job.

I do value the high quality shoots, which can give tranquility and atmosphere to the images. But to be honest, if those lack the idea, it's couple of seconds and I'm looking the next image.

Like you, I enjoy the unexpected that can make me giggle as well.

I took this unexpected shot last year.

It still makes me giggle.

Not Ansel Adams quality, but it does meet the aforementioned criteria.

She doesn't seem to be impressed enough to even stop eating but, it seems her girlfriend may be interested in getting some!

Edited October 30, 2013 by willyumiii

[sunshine51]

"The Good, The Bad & The Ugly-What Makes A Photograph?"

Goshawk started a great thread, which has, to me, digressed into

somewhat of a prick waving contest between the posters.

Please reference my post, #63, the last paragraph just before

my NB about why I edited said post. Omit accomplished if you

want...also omit alcohol and illicit substances if you desire

because I have no idea if these were used in forming opinions

of who has the better shot/penis. This thread in my opinion is

not about who has the best shot/biggest dong but just what

Goshawk initially stated...What makes a photograph?

Can a "happy snap" make a photograph? Yes.

Can a "happy snap" make a good photograph? Yes.

Can a set up shot make the same? Yes.

Set up means roughly predetermined or studio type

set up photography.

Can a documentary or current event shot make a

photograph? Yes.

Can any genre of photography whether it's post

visualised/rerendered with Photoshop, Lightroom,

DxO etc...etc...make a photograph? Yes.

Can any of the posters to this thread process their

own mono or colour? I have no answer to that; save

for myself and my answer is yes. Digital has just

removed one step in bringing a picture to the visual

realm vice being stored on celulose or plastic in a

light sensitive chemical emulsion.

The late Philip Jones Griffiths was a good friend of

mine. We'd meet in some of the strangest places

this planet has to offer and usually have a quiet

lunch somewhere discussing everything else except

photography. One day I had just returned from a

lab with a stack of matte finish proofs in monochrome

& colour. Philip said something like..."OOoooh...pictures...

may I have a look? I replied the obvious..."Sure & there's

some crap in the pile too."...perhaps a tad bit embarrased

along the way.

Phil looked through the pile taking longer with some

while a brief glance was what he gave others. He

finally said..."Where's the crap"?

Luck, right place-right time, time of day (lighting),

balls (how big they are at times), eye-mind-shutter

finger co-ordination, the ability to SEE vice just look,

how to listen and not just hear, what does the photog

want the photo(s) to achieve or portray...etc...etc...

there are a lotta variables out there...nearly 7 Billion

in my way of thinking. And it's the photog's mind, in

a microseconds decision that has to send the signal

to the shutter finger....fire...or forget it.

[MJP]

I photograph with love in my heart.

[watutsi]

It seems to me it is you who is always beating people over the head with your holier than thou preaching

-for arguments sake i am assuming you are a farmer and this is something you care about.That after preparing ,leveling the ground and planting, you are excited when the first shoots appear and even more so when it is a quality crop.That you are disappointed when you see careless and uncaring farming practices when it is just as easy to do it correctly.

If i turned up on the Farming Forum saying why are you guys so hung up about getting it right , it's only farming, you don't have to try too hard, just enjoy the digging , it's therapeutic it dosn't matter if anything grows, you might assume i am a self absorbed prick with no empathy.

I'm quite sure that villagefarang would in that case have wisdom to put things in perspective. The farming for you would be a hobby, which gives you a real joy.

Is there a reason for an corporate farmer to put the person who is learning to garden his 4m2 field down? Is there a reason to do the same in photography?

For me your attitude towards others is what could be described as teenager thug coming to kindergarten to bully the younger kids. Someone trying to push others down and thinks that it would increase his or hers status. Boy or a girl who thinks he/she is on the top of the world, but still lack the wisdom of the life.

I have seen the same attitude in tech forums. Nerds who are laughing to the people who are just learning how to use new operating system. It saddens me every time. That behavior is kind of ok on the very higher levels, where the game is hard and people in general are on the same page, but it should never be visible on the user levels.

In all the years on this forum, i have barely made a comment to anyone, i have posted some pictures, again pretty much without comment. I have never criticized anyone elses pictures, nor would i.This particular thread was a general discussion, i presumed amongst grown ups, about what is a good picture and how best to achieve same.I happened to mention i hated complacency,, which seems fair game in the context, only to be attacked as an elitist snob, i defended myself, what do you expect, if it got too personal my apologies to villagefarang and willy.

Other than the comments to the previous 2 dear souls everything was meant in a general sense that if you want to improve your photography [ which was what the thread is about] you have too really care and as Canuckamuck said be ready to accept criticism. There is no criticism on this forum which is understandable given the state of internet banter, but any discussion of photography needs positive criticism.It was my opinion that the photography forum had become "broke' There was on the one hand a kaleidoscope of images coming in from all over Thailand which was interesting too see much of the unseen, but because of the amount all intimate interchange that previously made the forum interesting were pushed off the page. Ok so nothing stays the same but surely with a little bit of effort the forum could be organized to include all the images that are meant as nothing more than "i am here this is now" and photographs that people want to discuss in a continuing slower format than hundreds of images being posted everyday.Maybe nobody cares and everyone is happy with the way thing are, so no problem, i'll just go and be an o.a.p. teenage thug somewhere else.

[MJP]

It seems to me it is you who is always beating people over the head with your holier than thou preaching

-for arguments sake i am assuming you are a farmer and this is something you care about.That after preparing ,leveling the ground and planting, you are excited when the first shoots appear and even more so when it is a quality crop.That you are disappointed when you see careless and uncaring farming practices when it is just as easy to do it correctly.

If i turned up on the Farming Forum saying why are you guys so hung up about getting it right , it's only farming, you don't have to try too hard, just enjoy the digging , it's therapeutic it dosn't matter if anything grows, you might assume i am a self absorbed prick with no empathy.

I'm quite sure that villagefarang would in that case have wisdom to put things in perspective. The farming for you would be a hobby, which gives you a real joy.

Is there a reason for an corporate farmer to put the person who is learning to garden his 4m2 field down? Is there a reason to do the same in photography?

For me your attitude towards others is what could be described as teenager thug coming to kindergarten to bully the younger kids. Someone trying to push others down and thinks that it would increase his or hers status. Boy or a girl who thinks he/she is on the top of the world, but still lack the wisdom of the life.

I have seen the same attitude in tech forums. Nerds who are laughing to the people who are just learning how to use new operating system. It saddens me every time. That behavior is kind of ok on the very higher levels, where the game is hard and people in general are on the same page, but it should never be visible on the user levels.

In all the years on this forum, i have barely made a comment to anyone, i have posted some pictures, again pretty much without comment. I have never criticized anyone elses pictures, nor would i.This particular thread was a general discussion, i presumed amongst grown ups, about what is a good picture and how best to achieve same.I happened to mention i hated complacency,, which seems fair game in the context, only to be attacked as an elitist snob, i defended myself, what do you expect, if it got too personal my apologies to villagefarang and willy.

Other than the comments to the previous 2 dear souls everything was meant in a general sense that if you want to improve your photography [ which was what the thread is about] you have too really care and as Canuckamuck said be ready to accept criticism. There is no criticism on this forum which is understandable given the state of internet banter, but any discussion of photography needs positive criticism.It was my opinion that the photography forum had become "broke' There was on the one hand a kaleidoscope of images coming in from all over Thailand which was interesting too see much of the unseen, but because of the amount all intimate interchange that previously made the forum interesting were pushed off the page. Ok so nothing stays the same but surely with a little bit of effort the forum could be organized to include all the images that are meant as nothing more than "i am here this is now" and photographs that people want to discuss in a continuing slower format than hundreds of images being posted everyday.Maybe nobody cares and everyone is happy with the way thing are, so no problem, i'll just go and be an o.a.p. teenage thug somewhere else.

No, don't go anywhere!

Edited October 30, 2013 by MJP

[biplanebluey]

"lets discuss"---- Mai ow cap---- But thanks for the invitation

[biplanebluey]

Simple really. Content, composition, exposure and most of all LIGHT . These are the absolute ingredients of a successful image. If any of the above are missing, the image fails. The content element is, of course, personnel appeal.

PP to taste fine tunes the above.

For me, I try to SEE a finished image, rather than LOOK for something that might (or might not) be there.

Then in PP I attempt to reproduce what I saw as best as I can, i.e. pre-visualisation. If I can't pre-visualise an image, I don't shoot it.

Photography is a skill in as much as it requires technique to perceive and achieve your goal.

Snapping away on a wing and a prayer is pointless, it produces nothing.

That's what I think anyway!

http://reeray.smugmug.com/

If you are anything of a photographer ,I do not see your points

1]LIGHT--- is the 'most of all' ingredient for a successful image

2] 'snapping away on a wing and a prayer' is pointless-------- sorry my friend but some exceptional shots have been produced at random

[MJP]

Simple really. Content, composition, exposure and most of all LIGHT . These are the absolute ingredients of a successful image. If any of the above are missing, the image fails. The content element is, of course, personnel appeal.

PP to taste fine tunes the above.

For me, I try to SEE a finished image, rather than LOOK for something that might (or might not) be there.

Then in PP I attempt to reproduce what I saw as best as I can, i.e. pre-visualisation. If I can't pre-visualise an image, I don't shoot it.

Photography is a skill in as much as it requires technique to perceive and achieve your goal.

Snapping away on a wing and a prayer is pointless, it produces nothing.

That's what I think anyway!

http://reeray.smugmug.com/

If you are anything of a photographer ,I do not see your points

1]LIGHT--- is the 'most of all' ingredient for a successful image

2] 'snapping away on a wing and a prayer' is pointless-------- sorry my friend but some exceptional shots have been produced at random

I find this. I'll go through the RAW files for the days shooting and some of the ones I thought would be great turn out disappointing but some of the random ones I think, "no, I can do something with that".

[sunshine51]

My last post...was not to point fingers at anybody. However from reading some

previous posts before my last post I could see a digression in the making and...

maybe being outta place...pre empted Goshawk and made the comments I made.

In an earlier post...#63 I believe...I stated that I do not like to use the word

criticise or the word criticism because if used even "positively" the words bring

about ill feelings. I invented a phrase off the cuff...pro-creative consultation to

make others at ease. Said phrase has no bearing on procreating mind you.

I reckon photogs are the worst...or best if viewed from another angle...people

to "criticise" another photog's work. I have seen some nasty fistfights break out

that I thought should be captured for posterity and embarrasment at a later date

although I resigned, walked away and thought to myself; the people fighting will

have enough pain & scars...why add to the melee?

We all have our ponts of view and ways of making "the shot". I have mine...y'all

have yours...and God bless us for this fact because the world would very one sided

otherwise.

A simple but accurate quote from Michael Jordan...yeah it's a cop out but I have

a nasty flu and feel like shit...

“I've missed more than 9,000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games.

Twenty-six times, I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed.

I've failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed."
– Michael Jordan

[Guest]

“I've missed more than 9,000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games.

Twenty-six times, I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed.

I've failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed."

– Michael Jordan

I never knew that baseball player could have given such inspirational quote, but that's due my own simplemindess. Real champs know how to be humble, they also know that they hold one skill, while others hold other kind of skills.

If we think of a kid who have just lost the game for the team, hears that quote. That's the way to get up and try more and try to be better.

I would like to see the advanced photographers along us being like big brother or wise old people who give advices to the rest of us. "That's nice, but how do you think if you would crop the image to this.. let me show how I would see it being better".

Critique can be constructive, which basically means that it include sharing knowledge to photographers who have less skills. Then again it does not mean that every photographer should follow the masters ways to become copy of the master.

I consider the photo forum as playground. I still remember how nervous I was when I posted my first photo to the Evaluate my photo forum. When I got positive feedback my feeling was out of the roof. Ever since photo forum has been a island on the Thaivisa land, where I can escape to see what images and real feelings other members has been willing to share with all of us.

I think that it as a playground as it has been a place with very little restrictions. A place with very little negative criticism. We, developing hobbyist photographers, have been able to put our photos for other to see and comment. Some of the photos are not so great and some have been something to be proud of. Every time I get the golden star (3 likes), I shake my butt a bit. It just feels good and that feeling makes me to try a bit more.

That is the feeling I wish not to loose on this forum.

[sunshine51]

@oilinki...

" Every time I get the golden star (3 likes), I shake my butt a bit. It just feels good and that feeling makes me to try a bit more."

That's what this entire section of TVF is supposed to be about...a place to share & hopefully a place to learn...

without walking in the footsteps of mentors...then it's just copying.

BTW...I remember M. Jordan as a great basketball player but I know from the media that some B-Ball players

also play baseball...for what that's worth!

[Fiddlesticks]

“I've missed more than 9,000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games.

Twenty-six times, I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed.

I've failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed."

– Michael Jordan

I never knew that baseball player could have given such inspirational quote, but that's due my own simplemindess. Real champs know how to be humble, they also know that they hold one skill, while others hold other kind of skills.

If we think of a kid who have just lost the game for the team, hears that quote. That's the way to get up and try more and try to be better.

I would like to see the advanced photographers along us being like big brother or wise old people who give advices to the rest of us. "That's nice, but how do you think if you would crop the image to this.. let me show how I would see it being better".

Critique can be constructive, which basically means that it include sharing knowledge to photographers who have less skills. Then again it does not mean that every photographer should follow the masters ways to become copy of the master.

I consider the photo forum as playground. I still remember how nervous I was when I posted my first photo to the Evaluate my photo forum. When I got positive feedback my feeling was out of the roof. Ever since photo forum has been a island on the Thaivisa land, where I can escape to see what images and real feelings other members has been willing to share with all of us.

I think that it as a playground as it has been a place with very little restrictions. A place with very little negative criticism. We, developing hobbyist photographers, have been able to put our photos for other to see and comment. Some of the photos are not so great and some have been something to be proud of. Every time I get the golden star (3 likes), I shake my butt a bit. It just feels good and that feeling makes me to try a bit more.

That is the feeling I wish not to loose on this forum.

"It just feels good and that feeling makes me to try a bit more.

That is the feeling I wish not to loose on this forum. "

I know that there are those that simply enjoy sharing with all of us what they saw and felt regarding this unique land and culture so they capture the image and invite us to share in their enjoyment. Then there are those who enjoy the challenge of capturing images that allows them to express an inner desire to create 'art'. Still others want to share the with us the wonder and beauty they find in nature. All of these are sincere and honest efforts to SHARE something of ourselves with others. Our response should be that of thanks and encouragement.

Oilinki, thanks for reminding us what kind words and encouragement can accomplish in each other.

[Dancealot]

You can read all the bumf ever written about photography but it is not going to improve your picture taking. The proof of the pudding of course is in pictures, firstly immerse yourself in pictures, millions of them, of every genre , fashion ,street, wildlife, reportage, advertising, etc.Try and understand why a picture is regarded as great as opposed to good,Figure out how it was taken, it dosn't matter how wrong you are, you have just created a new way to take a picture. Go out and take lots of pictures, don,t doddle, just shoot , you only get one chance in every lifetime to shoot that particular moment.In another post i said that luck was the secret weapon of all photographers, but there is another secret weapon , editing. Discard everything you are not sure of, then do it again then do it again,if you are left with 1 picture at the end of it all, it is a big success.

Nothing like winding up with a blatant cliche but studying one good picture will tell you more than thousands of words of photographic thesis .

I have thought about this all day, watutsi.

Thank you.