Fidelity USA fee for withdraws!

[zeekgarcia]

After a Fidelity csr told me that there would be no fees for an over the counter withdraw and that Fidelity only charges a 1% fee for using the debit card to make purchases, I did an over the counter withdraw at a Thai bank using my Fidelity Visa Debit/atm card. But now I found out that Fidelity does charge a 1% fee of over the counter withdraw from the following.

On Oct 5 at 18:11 I did an over counter withdraw at a Thai bank but in my Fidelity account it posted Oct 7

Then on Oct 5 at 18:26 I did an atm withdraw at Aeon with the same card but in my Fidelity account it posted Oct 7

The exchange rate for the over counter withdraw is 30.89 = a 1% fee.

the exchange rate for the atm withdraw is 31.20

*I came to this exchange rate by taking the amount of baht received and dividing it by the amount of $ deducted from my account. Then I checked it using the usa visa webpage.

From the visa usa webpage the visa exchange rate for

Oct 5 - 1 Thai Baht = 0.032048 United States Dollar

Oct 7 - 1 Thai Baht = 0.032048 United States Dollar

So then 1/ 0.032048 = 31.20 exchange rate

1 Thai Baht = 0.032368 United States Dollar with a 1% fee

1/ 0.032368= 30.89

Am I right in thinking that I could of used Bangkok Banks Ach service from the USA for cheaper?

Because this over the counter withdraw cost me almost $25 for almost $2,500.

[Suradit69]

If you transfer money from Fidelity to Bangkok Bank in NY (using the same Bangkok Bank account number you have here in Thailand), Bangkok Bank has been charging me $10 in NY and Baht 200 locally. My last transfer they charged me $5 and Baht 200. Not sure why the change. I transfer from my money market account with Vanguard who do not charge me for the transfer to Bangkok Bank in NY. I assume Fidelity does the same ??

The rate they use seems to be the one posted on their website on the day it's credited to my local account here, which is usually two/three days after it's sent ... depending on how you look at it because of the nearly 12 hour time difference. They send me a SMS here when the money is credited to my account and it shows the fees and the exchange rate used.

So, whether or not those fees are more or less expensive than your method depends on how much you're transferring, but $5 plus 200 baht seems reasonable to me.

From the visa usa webpage the visa exchange rate for

Maybe better to use the Bangkok Bank exchange rate ??

http://www.bangkokbank.com/BangkokBank/WebServices/Rates/Pages/FX_Rates.aspx

Use the TT (telegraphic transfer) buying rate column on the right side.

Edited October 30, 2013 by Suradit69

[Ticketmaster]

Everybody has been told repeatedly on TV that if you have a Charles Schwab account, there are NO fees. Schwab reimburses all ATM fees. Your exchange rate is absolutely the best possible. If you use something else, I wish you luck, but I certainly will not feel sorry for you.

[Langsuan Man]

The OP should use the October 4th date, since October 5th is a Saturday and the fixing rate would be one day earlier

But is seems to me to be a no brainer, use AEON atms and pay no fees

I did not know that Fidelity's Debit Cards would work on AEON or I would not have opened a State Farm Bank account for that purpose

Yesterday I used an AEON ATM with my State Farm card and when I returned home to my computer I received the exact same rate as posted by SCB @ 14:30, 30/11/2013. 30.96 THB per USD

see: http://www.scb.co.th/scb_api/index.jsp

Suradit69 Bangkok Bank has a sliding fee depending upon many dollars you exchange

Here is their fee schedule:

source:

http://www.bangkokbank.com/BangkokBank/PersonalBanking/DailyBanking/TransferingFunds/TransferringIntoThailand/ReceivingFundsfromUSA/Pages/ReceivingFundsfromUSA.aspx

Edited October 31, 2013 by Langsuan Man

[Pib]

If you transfer money from Fidelity to Bangkok Bank in NY (using the same Bangkok Bank account number you have here in Thailand), Bangkok Bank has been charging me $10 in NY and Baht 200 locally. My last transfer they charged me $5 and Baht 200. Not sure why the change.

One transfer amount was under or exactly $2000 and one amount was over $2000. The NY branch fee varies depending on amount transferred. Click on the Fees sublink at this Bangkok Bank webpage regarding funds transfers from the U.S. to Thailand via the NY branch. If a person routinely transfers amounts pretty close to $2000 (give or take a little), probably best to send exactly $2000 to only get the $5 fee; but if you send $2000.01 to $50K it turns into a $10 fee. In this case, transferring only one penny over $2K costs you five dollars more.

And as you mentioned on the local/in-Thailand branch end you will have another currency receipt/conversion fee of 0.25% (Bt200 min, Bt500 max) of the received amount....and keep in mind the received amount will be lite the fee the NY branch sliced off as it flowed through them. So, if you sent exactly $2000, the NY branch slices off $5 and $1,995 shows up at the local branch where the exchange rate of the minute is applied, the above local fee is subtracted, and then the remaining amount posted to account. Failing to consider these fees and the order they are applied is why some people can never get their exchange rate math to equal the listed bank exchange rate which usually varies a couple times a day--sometimes many times a day when the Forex market is having a volatile day because Ben Bernanke or some other big banker said something or farted.

[Pib]

You would have been better off using an ACH transfer to Bangkok Bank for that $2.5K. As it flowed through the NY branch they would have sliced off their $10 for that amount, leaving $2,490 arriving your local/in-Thailand branch where they would have used the Bangkok Bank exchange rate of the minute to convert it. 5 Oct was a Saturday so it probably would not have posted until 7 Oct/Monday when the first TT Buying Update rate was 31.15 baht/USD. So, $2,490 converts to Bt77,563.50, then the 0.25% (Bt 200 min, Bt500 max) currency receipt/conversion fee is applied which equate to Bt193.9 so the Bt200 minimum fee is applied leaving Bt77,363.50 to be posted to your account. But with the 1% over the counter withdrawal you ended up with Bt77,225, a small amount.

But just to simply the math and assuming the Visa exchange rate and bank exchange rate was identical, the over the counter card withdrawal cost you 1% or $25 in fees where an ACH transfer would have cost your approx. 0.66% or $16.42 in fees (assuming your sending bank charged no ACH transfer fee of their own).

[lomatopo]

Fidelity Visa Debit Card may have rules re: fees for cash advances and/or withdrawals. I would review those, and/or contact them to see if any fees can be reimbursed.

I use my Fidelity Visa Debit at AEON ATMs all the time, and seem to get the rate I expected.

FWIW, Bangkok Bank now send an SMS, to your Thai mobile number on record, with the details of any ACH transfer. It tells you the originating bank, the total amount deposited locally in THB and the USD amount - less the BBL/NY fee, the exchange rate and the local fee. On a recent transfer (Oct. 4) BBL/NY took $10, and BBL/TH took 233.37 THB. I paid $3 to originate the ACH with BofA. So the total fees were ~ $20.50.

Edited November 1, 2013 by lomatopo

[Pib]

Yes, that Remittance SMS Alert for arriving funds is a nice feature and has been around for years; however, it's not automatic as a person must sign up for the service, but it's free and easy. More info/signup procedures at this Bangkok Bank webpage. Takes the guessing game out of have my funds posted, how much arrived, what exchange rate did I get, exact local fee(s), etc.

[zeekgarcia]

Everybody has been told repeatedly on TV that if you have a Charles Schwab account, there are NO fees. Schwab reimburses all ATM fees. Your exchange rate is absolutely the best possible. If you use something else, I wish you luck, but I certainly will not feel sorry for you.

I tried to open an account at Schwab but when it came time to fund the checking account their system found out I was doing it from Thailand and I had to call in to find out what the problem was and their back office account setup people said that they are cancelling the applications because their system saw that I was in Thailand. And when I told them that my residence is in the USA they said I would need to go to their nearest office to open an account.

@Langsuan Man

The benefit of an over the counter withdraw is that you can withdraw more than your daily atm limit at one time and then go to the atm and withdraw your daily atm limit also.

But you need to make double or triple sure that your bank is not going to charge you a % of the over the counter withdraw. Because I talked to a csr at Fidelity and they even put me on hold to supposedly find out and assured me that they only charge 1% when making a purchase and nothing for an atm withdrawal or an over the counter withdrawal and even found out the withdraw limits for these. So I should had called again to see if I got the same answer twice but I figured the csr knew what they were talking about but they did not.

Edited November 1, 2013 by zeekgarcia

[zeekgarcia]

Fidelity Visa Debit Card may have rules re: fees for cash advances and/or withdrawals. I would review those, and/or contact them to see if any fees can be reimbursed.

This is a good idea. I may call Fidelity again and see if the csr tells me that they do not charge then if they tell me this I will tell them that I have been charged and see what happens. Because it will be a great plus because the over the counter withdraw limit is alot higher than the atm withdraw limit, plus you can do both right after the other.

[lomatopo]

Yes, that Remittance SMS Alert for arriving funds is a nice feature and has been around for years; however, it's not automatic as a person must sign up for the service, but it's free and easy. More info/signup procedures at this Bangkok Bank webpage. Takes the guessing game out of have my funds posted, how much arrived, what exchange rate did I get, exact local fee(s), etc.

OK. I haven't signed up for anything, and this is the first time I received an SMS alert after a transfer from BofA in the U.S.A. via an ACH transfer and BBL/NY.

Perhaps when I changed my mobile phone number recently, and notified BBL, they enrolled me automatically for this service?

[lomatopo]

My best/only guess is that Fidelity charged you the 1% fee as the debit memo they received from "the Thai bank" appeared to be a cash advance and/or purchase.

When you log in to Fidelity to review the activity on the associated account what do you see for details? How is the debit notated? Are there any fees displayed?

I'd have the account up on my screen before/as I am on the line with Fidelity.

Not sure what your alternatives may be? Time/space your AEON ATM withdrawals or ACH a single, larger amount to cover your requirements for some period?

[Pib]

The OP should use the October 4th date, since October 5th is a Saturday and the fixing rate would be one day earlier

But is seems to me to be a no brainer, use AEON atms and pay no fees

I did not know that Fidelity's Debit Cards would work on AEON or I would not have opened a State Farm Bank account for that purpose

Yesterday I used an AEON ATM with my State Farm card and when I returned home to my computer I received the exact same rate as posted by SCB @ 14:30, 30/11/2013. 30.96 THB per USD

see: http://www.scb.co.th/scb_api/index.jsp

Suradit69 Bangkok Bank has a sliding fee depending upon many dollars you exchange

Here is their fee schedule:

BB.png

source:

http://www.bangkokbank.com/BangkokBank/PersonalBanking/DailyBanking/TransferingFunds/TransferringIntoThailand/ReceivingFundsfromUSA/Pages/ReceivingFundsfromUSA.aspx

Just to ensure no one gets confused, when using your Visa card on 30 Oct and where you got a exchange rate of 30.96 that was Visa's exchange rate for that day and just happened to match the SCB TT Buying Rate on 30 Oct of 30.96 for 2 of their 4 TT Buying Rate releases during the day (the other two rate releases during the day were 30.95).

The Visa and SCB TT Buying Rate could have been easily different but the Visa/Mastercard rate is usually plus or minus a few stang of Thai bank TT Buying Rate used for wired transfers. The Visa rate is usually just a little better than the MasterCard rate. When a person slides their Visa/MasterCard into a Thai bank ATM or AEON ATM they get the Visa/MasterCard exchange rate unless the that bank's ATM happens to offer their own rate (a.k.a., Dynaminc Currency Conversion--DCC rate) which will usually be several percent lower (like 3 to 4% lower)...DCC bad, very bad for the customer; DCC good, very good for the bank/merchant.

I haven't done an ACH transfers for over two years now as I just use my Schwab and State Farm no foreign transaction fee Visa debit cards. I use the cards primarily to keep my Thai bank account charged-up for day-to-day living expenses so I can pay bills via ibanking, use my Thai bank debit card to get money, etc. Between the two cards I can get approx. Bt62K per day from an ATM...I always use AEON ATMs to avoid the Thai bank foreign Visa/Mastercard card fee of Bt150/Bt180...but to get that Bt62K amount since AEON has recently lowered its limit per withdrawal to Bt20K I have to do 4 withdrawals...two Bt20K and two Bt11K...but it don't take long to do 4 ATM withdrawals one right after the other....then I will go use a Cash Deposit Machine (CDM) to deposit the money to my Thai bank account. Come back the next day and do it all over again if necessary. Fortunately, my nearby Lotus Mall I visit several times a week has an AEON ATM within about 20 steps of my Thai bank outlet in the mall. Makes it easy, quick, and secure for me to get money out of an AEON ATM and then take 20 steps to put in in my Thai bank CDM....then go do my shopping.

Since I mostly use my cards just to top-up my Thai bank account, I do my best to time my ATM withdrawals in order to get the best Visa exchange rate....I can easily say with little effort I have got a better exchange rate 8 out of 10 times using my Visa cards as compared to the TT Buying Rate if using an ACH transfer....and of course I get the money immediately in-hand with no fees (I always use AEON ATMs) versus waiting a day or several for a ACH transfer to arrive and keeping my fingers crossed on what exchange rate I will get upon arrival. That's why I said I use my card's "mostly" this way since many times I will check the Visa rate online before withdrawing to ensure I'm not withdrawing on a day their rate is significantly lower than the average Thai bank TT Buying Rate...try to pick a day where its higher...but when I know Forex rates have been pretty stable I won't even check the Visa exchange rate site....I just do the withdrawal because my experience has shown the Visa rate will be plus or minus the TT Buying Rate by a few stang--usually a little better based on my withdrawals but as mentioned many times I have timed my withdrawals. And don't get me wrong about using ACH transfers, they are definitely needed for BIG money transfers and I have transfers links setup for such when that need arrives again.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Regarding Fidelity, I think you have to be careful about what kind of transaction you're doing.

I believe, we've already established here previously that Fidelity's debit card when used for international ATM withdrawals has no FCC fee. But when used for POS purchases, it does have the 1% fee, from what I recall of what Fidelity cardholders have posted here. (Unlike Schwab, where there's no FCC for ATM or POS transactions).

So it doesn't come as much of a surprise to hear that Fidelity is adding the 1% fee to counter withdrawals.

In fact, I'm noticing that a lot of U.S. banks are increasing their own fees later for counter withdrawals. Those are aimed at customers who try to withdraw money from other banks besides their own in the U.S. But presumably the same fees would equally apply to counter withdrawals done with other banks outside the U.S.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

...

Edited November 19, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[zeekgarcia]

My best/only guess is that Fidelity charged you the 1% fee as the debit memo they received from "the Thai bank" appeared to be a cash advance and/or purchase.

When you log in to Fidelity to review the activity on the associated account what do you see for details? How is the debit notated? Are there any fees displayed?

I'd have the account up on my screen before/as I am on the line with Fidelity.

Not sure what your alternatives may be? Time/space your AEON ATM withdrawals or ACH a single, larger amount to cover your requirements for some period?

Sorry I forgot to let you know about this.

on the Fidelity screen when it lists:

an atm withdraw as> cash advance atm 0000 then the location of the atm

an over the counter withdraw as > cash advance then the name of the bank and the branch it was done at

[zeekgarcia]

You would have been better off using an ACH transfer to Bangkok Bank for that $2.5K. As it flowed through the NY branch they would have sliced off their $10 for that amount, leaving $2,490 arriving your local/in-Thailand branch where they would have used the Bangkok Bank exchange rate of the minute to convert it. 5 Oct was a Saturday so it probably would not have posted until 7 Oct/Monday when the first TT Buying Update rate was 31.15 baht/USD. So, $2,490 converts to Bt77,563.50, then the 0.25% (Bt 200 min, Bt500 max) currency receipt/conversion fee is applied which equate to Bt193.9 so the Bt200 minimum fee is applied leaving Bt77,363.50 to be posted to your account. But with the 1% over the counter withdrawal you ended up with Bt77,225, a small amount.

But just to simply the math and assuming the Visa exchange rate and bank exchange rate was identical, the over the counter card withdrawal cost you 1% or $25 in fees where an ACH transfer would have cost your approx. 0.66% or $16.42 in fees (assuming your sending bank charged no ACH transfer fee of their own).

Am I correct in thinking that the over the counter withdraw with a 1% fee would never be less that the Bangkok Bank ACH service?

[Pib]

You would have been better off using an ACH transfer to Bangkok Bank for that $2.5K. As it flowed through the NY branch they would have sliced off their $10 for that amount, leaving $2,490 arriving your local/in-Thailand branch where they would have used the Bangkok Bank exchange rate of the minute to convert it. 5 Oct was a Saturday so it probably would not have posted until 7 Oct/Monday when the first TT Buying Update rate was 31.15 baht/USD. So, $2,490 converts to Bt77,563.50, then the 0.25% (Bt 200 min, Bt500 max) currency receipt/conversion fee is applied which equate to Bt193.9 so the Bt200 minimum fee is applied leaving Bt77,363.50 to be posted to your account. But with the 1% over the counter withdrawal you ended up with Bt77,225, a small amount.

But just to simply the math and assuming the Visa exchange rate and bank exchange rate was identical, the over the counter card withdrawal cost you 1% or $25 in fees where an ACH transfer would have cost your approx. 0.66% or $16.42 in fees (assuming your sending bank charged no ACH transfer fee of their own).

Am I correct in thinking that the over the counter withdraw with a 1% fee would never be less that the Bangkok Bank ACH service?

Probably not, but it depends on the amount you ACH via Bangkok Bank NY since the NY branch applies a sliding scale fee based on amount being sent.

Say you send $2000, a $5 fee gets sliced off as it flows through Bangkok Bank NY, $1995 arrives the local/in-Thailand branch where the min Bt200 fee (approx $6) currency conversion/receipt fee would apply in this case...so a total of approx $11/0.55% in fees of the $2000 that started the trip. But if you sent $1000 there would still be the $11 in total fees but it now equates to about 1.1% of the $1000 that started the trip. Sending $1100 and that works out to 1% in fees. Send $5000 an there will be a $10 NY fee sliced off, Bt412 (about $12.50) on the Thailand local branch end for a total of $22.50 or 0.45% of the $5000 that started the trip.

Basically, if using a 1% fee benchmark if using the Bangkok Bank ACH route and assuming the TT Buying Rate and Visa/Mastercard exchange rates are real close then you will fair better using ACH when sending over $1100. Of course this also assumes your Sending back does not charge any fee. And as we have discussed before the best way to avoid all fees is to get a no foreign transaction fee debit card, preferably Visa since the Visa rate is generally a little better than the Mastercard rate.