Red shirts appear to be biggest losers in Thai amnesty bill

[mikemac]

I quickly read the heading as " Redshirts appear to be biggest losers..............." and I thought "that sounds about right, along with the losers who support them"

But the government ignored the criticisms and decided to send the amnesty bill to the House for the second reading today. The move was unacceptable to even several wings of the red-shirt movement, except the red shirts in the Pheu Thai.

Sounds about right...................

Worse still, all the arguments failed to explain why Thaksin would also be absolved because the former prime minister had nothing to do with protests and demonstrations.

Oh, must have been another Thaksin Shinawatra !

The Pheu Thai should have sought to undo the effects of the 2006 coup with another law instead of using the amnesty bill.

Amazing PTP ! Just create new laws to save your sorry ass as you go. No wonder they attract such intelligent and articulate supporters.

Speaking of their supporters, last time I looked there were about 29 comments on this story and all but one of them were anti- Thaksin type comments. One solitary voice, desperately trying to get a bite from a poster to feed his habit. Almost feel sorry for him, but not quite.

[yoshiwara]

On another point, Thaksin's son Oak, the troubled student in the past, wants his father to have fresh trials. Yes!!! Let's have the 2001 assets concealment trial all over again, how Thaksin and his wife hid millions of baht in his servants' names for years, let's rerun that and see a new verdict!!

The logistics of that would be rather tricky. If there was a new trial then there would remain the issue that there was a case to answer. Also remember that the evidence was not challenged at the time.

[khunken]

Yes, if this amnesty bill becomes law - a big if - the grassroots red shirts and the innocent victims of the 2010 riots will certainly be the biggest losers.

The thrust of the amnesty has always been to absolve Thaksin of his many crimes and the original bill was just a facade to pretend that the real victims were the ones to be given amnesty. The well paid red shirt leaders who were under instructions to create as much bedlam as possible will be major beneficiaries of the bill as well as Thaksin.

It may open the eyes of some ordinary red shirts but not many I fear because they have been so brainwashed and given some money for their willingness to demonstrate & vote for the party that pretends to benefit them.

Sad,

[siampolee]

Sad that it has taken so long and caused so much grief and deaths and injuries and social divisions before the Red Shirts realised they were and are nothing but pawns in the game of chess that Thaksin was and still is playing.

The gambit is called ''Fools mate.'' and the Red Shirts fell into the trap, however let's not forget a number of Red Shirts made tidy sums of money and secured nice parliamentary and public service sinecures by their coercion of the rank and file Red Shirt membership paid and otherwise.

A fine example of the manipulation of a fine grass roots movement for the personal aims of a tyrant.

[SICHONSTEVE]

Yes, if this amnesty bill becomes law - a big if - the grassroots red shirts and the innocent victims of the 2010 riots will certainly be the biggest losers.

The thrust of the amnesty has always been to absolve Thaksin of his many crimes and the original bill was just a facade to pretend that the real victims were the ones to be given amnesty. The well paid red shirt leaders who were under instructions to create as much bedlam as possible will be major beneficiaries of the bill as well as Thaksin.

It may open the eyes of some ordinary red shirts but not many I fear because they have been so brainwashed and given some money for their willingness to demonstrate & vote for the party that pretends to benefit them.

Sad,

Am I missing something here?

Why will the red shirts be losers? what will they lose through this?

I think that it is funny that they have come out in great strength over this 'twisted' amnesty bill thinking it is a betrayal of the trust they held in this government.

I can fully see why the Democrats are dead set against it but the red shirts will lose nothing as far as I can see.

[fab4]

Its been common knowledge that Thaksin sold the redshirts out in the deal with Prem, but the redshirts shouldn't be surprised as he has told them many times he doesn't need them anymore.

Bangkok July 31, 2008. He (Thaksin) insisted he is not advising members of the United Front for Democracy Against Dictatorship (UDD), the formal name for the Red Shirts, who enjoy wide support among Thailand’s rural poor and working class. “I don’t know them,” he said. http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2011/01/07/thailands_deposed_prime_minister_relaxes_and_waits.html

A classic example of "quote out of context" to support whatever theory is being put forward.

Now if you added the the preceding text the quote becomes clear and is not about "abandoning" the redshirts

Reports from Bangkok last week said a group of Pheu Thai party members were travelling to meet with Thaksin and discuss who should assume the opposition party’s leadership.

Thaksin, a former billionaire businessman, distanced himself Thursday from direct involvement in any political movement.

He insisted he is not advising members of the United Front for Democracy Against Dictatorship (UDD), the formal name for the Red Shirts, who enjoy wide support among Thailand’s rural poor and working class.

“I don’t know them,” he said.

Clearly he is throwing up "smokescreens" about him partaking in the discussions over the party leadership. If you want to believe differently, go ahead.

Great Fab4, so Thaksin met with the PTP to tell them who has a cabinet position. Then in other news, he denies advising the UDD or redshirts, in fact he doesn't even know them. He probable flicked his hair at them as he said it. Seems you the one throwing up smoke screens.

So it didn't occur to you to co relate the two items even though they were from the same quote. Just two unconnected facts. Oh, well.

[mikemac]

A fine example of the manipulation of a fine grass roots movement for the personal aims of a tyrant.

I agree 100%, although I doubt if Thaksin's cheer squad will see it that way. Anyway if you did ask them they would probably start babbling about the redshirts who perished in the "peaceful protests" in Bangkok in 2010.

[A1Str8]

They appear to be just that no matter what angle we look at it from.

[khunken]

Yes, if this amnesty bill becomes law - a big if - the grassroots red shirts and the innocent victims of the 2010 riots will certainly be the biggest losers.

The thrust of the amnesty has always been to absolve Thaksin of his many crimes and the original bill was just a facade to pretend that the real victims were the ones to be given amnesty. The well paid red shirt leaders who were under instructions to create as much bedlam as possible will be major beneficiaries of the bill as well as Thaksin.

It may open the eyes of some ordinary red shirts but not many I fear because they have been so brainwashed and given some money for their willingness to demonstrate & vote for the party that pretends to benefit them.

Sad,

Am I missing something here?

Why will the red shirts be losers? what will they lose through this?

I think that it is funny that they have come out in great strength over this 'twisted' amnesty bill thinking it is a betrayal of the trust they held in this government.

I can fully see why the Democrats are dead set against it but the red shirts will lose nothing as far as I can see.

Steve - note that I said grassroots red shirts (& innocent victims). The point is that they don't need an amnesty and those that they were paid to protest against will gain amnesty as well as the army - already given 'amnesty' by Tharit. The red shirt leaders will certainly be beneficiaries.

In a nutshell - their protests & riots would have been in vain.

[TPI]

The sooner Thaksin is no longer with us, the better for all of Thailand. That is why he will never return - no balls - as the next of the many so called "assassination" attempts might well be a real one and he is fully aware of this fact. Poetic justice in my book, Thaksin living in fear and looking over his shoulder 27/7 - love it.

All it costs is 60 cents and a "master eye"...problem solved! The PTP is his party, root and branch, his politicians collect their salary every month...and the band plays on!

[SICHONSTEVE]

Yes, if this amnesty bill becomes law - a big if - the grassroots red shirts and the innocent victims of the 2010 riots will certainly be the biggest losers.

The thrust of the amnesty has always been to absolve Thaksin of his many crimes and the original bill was just a facade to pretend that the real victims were the ones to be given amnesty. The well paid red shirt leaders who were under instructions to create as much bedlam as possible will be major beneficiaries of the bill as well as Thaksin.

It may open the eyes of some ordinary red shirts but not many I fear because they have been so brainwashed and given some money for their willingness to demonstrate & vote for the party that pretends to benefit them.

Sad,

Am I missing something here?

Why will the red shirts be losers? what will they lose through this?

I think that it is funny that they have come out in great strength over this 'twisted' amnesty bill thinking it is a betrayal of the trust they held in this government.

I can fully see why the Democrats are dead set against it but the red shirts will lose nothing as far as I can see.

Steve - note that I said grassroots red shirts (& innocent victims). The point is that they don't need an amnesty and those that they were paid to protest against will gain amnesty as well as the army - already given 'amnesty' by Tharit. The red shirt leaders will certainly be beneficiaries.

In a nutshell - their protests & riots would have been in vain.

Don't the red shirts want their leaders given an amnesty? this new amnesty achieves just this, so they GAIN.

The army haven't done anything wrong as they were following orders so they are exempted anyway.

What the red shirts want at all costs is for Abhisit and Suthep to be tried for murder - the new bill will give amnesty to them but lets say the revised version fails or is withdrawn (no chance in reality as they steam roller it through) but lets assume that it doesn't happen. Abhisit and Suthep MIGHT see the inside of the court and if they do they will be found innocent and the red won't gain anything!!

In summation - the reds will see their leaders free of terrorists charges, their fugitive messiah can return home and Abhisit and Suthep's position will be no different, so they are actually better off with the revised version, as it goes!!

[rubl]

smokescreens? Mr. T is good at that. It took almost a year from "who am I to do so" to "helped in talks" regarding the (by now) failed dialogue with some non-terrorists down South.

Others may just say that he is a pathological liar.

Its been common knowledge that Thaksin sold the redshirts out in the deal with Prem, but the redshirts shouldn't be surprised as he has told them many times he doesn't need them anymore.

Bangkok July 31, 2008. He (Thaksin) insisted he is not advising members of the United Front for Democracy Against Dictatorship (UDD), the formal name for the Red Shirts, who enjoy wide support among Thailand’s rural poor and working class. “I don’t know them,” he said. http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2011/01/07/thailands_deposed_prime_minister_relaxes_and_waits.html

A classic example of "quote out of context" to support whatever theory is being put forward.

Now if you added the the preceding text the quote becomes clear and is not about "abandoning" the redshirts

Reports from Bangkok last week said a group of Pheu Thai party members were travelling to meet with Thaksin and discuss who should assume the opposition party’s leadership.

Thaksin, a former billionaire businessman, distanced himself Thursday from direct involvement in any political movement.

He insisted he is not advising members of the United Front for Democracy Against Dictatorship (UDD), the formal name for the Red Shirts, who enjoy wide support among Thailand’s rural poor and working class.

“I don’t know them,” he said.

Clearly he is throwing up "smokescreens" about him partaking in the discussions over the party leadership. If you want to believe differently, go ahead.

[virtualtraveller]

History is now in the hands of the red shirts, they either take a stand and part ways with Peua Thai if they go ahead or become the biggest losers in history - a mob for hire that was duped. Tough call, afterall they will be nothing without his money. It's too late to reverse the clock, Thaksin has f*7cked them over, he has revealed his true colours. If they accept this, they will be the laughing stock of the world.

Unfortunately they have been sold a dummy, Abhisit will never be go to jail as they insist, not because the justice system is protecting him but because it will set a precedent that will enable any protest to turf our Yingluck or anyone so easily. They hadn't thought that out had they? But Thaksin well knows it's a dead end.

Frankly, I think Thaksin is committing political suicide with the move, it may wash for awhile if he calls a snap election but same as April 2006 it will only delay the inevitable fate. Enough is enough, his enemies will react with something radical and the red shirts won't buy into his plans to resist.

[ridkun]

Those red shirts has been fuelling him, given him maybe largest political momentum ever in Thai politics for a long way just to have him stopped few inches away from his goal? Every red shirts know this day would come since the beginning, but the love for Thaksin and hatred on Democrats just blinded them away from the inconvenient truth.

[easybullet3]

How on earth are the red shirts the biggest losers ??? !!!

So,, you mean,, the Amnesty will allow Abhesit to be absolved from what he did? - erm,, what exactly did he do ?? !!!! the charges against him are stupid!

so,, the red shirts wand their leader off the hook and they dont want Abhesit to be included?

did I understand this correct?

the Reds are sooo spoiled!

(i can think of other adjectives)

also: this headline is completely wrong! bad journalism!

[SICHONSTEVE]

How on earth are the red shirts the biggest losers ??? !!!

So,, you mean,, the Amnesty will allow Abhesit to be absolved from what he did? - erm,, what exactly did he do ?? !!!! the charges against him are stupid!

so,, the red shirts wand their leader off the hook and they dont want Abhesit to be included?

did I understand this correct?

the Reds are sooo spoiled!

(i can think of other adjectives)

also: this headline is completely wrong! bad journalism!

Precisely my point in my posting 41!!!

It shows that the red shirts are dumb when it comes to making decisions and dumb when it comes to evaluating situations.

Getting Abhisit and Suthep imprisoned is nothing but a pipe-dream. This simply will not happen in a hundred years - just as to why they think it will is beyond me!! They really want it to happen obviously, but I want to really win first prize in the Euro lottery. I think that I have as much chance of achieving this as they do of getting them to see the inside of a cell (and I have never bought a lottery ticket in my life).

To be honest, I think that they want to feel that their worthless and unneccesary sacrifices were not in vain and just seeing Abhisit and Suthep facing their day in front of the courts would help ease the pain (for some strange reason). Also, they have'nt taken too kindly to being duped by Pheu Thai in submitting this revision so late in the 'amnesty game'. It is obvious that Thaksin planned this from the start. What he wasn't planning for though was the backlash it would cause in his rank and file supporters - now that really has thrown a spanner in the cogs and it looks like he is going to try and keep the machine running with the spanner getting ever more mangled until the machine comes to an untimely halt!! It will be interesting to assess the situation once this happens ie: what next for Thaksin, his options are fast running out, Brilliant!!!

[indyuk]

This amnesty bill is just more proof that the PTP do not care about those who elected them

Maybe when the next election rolls around they will vote with their brain and not sell their votes for 500 baht

PTP have shown time and time again, they have two goals ... Bring home the criminal and self enrichment

I do hope that you are wrong and that there is integrity in all that the present government has tried to do for the proletariat. Their intent is a 100% on target in the sense that the plans as stated will revitalize what were outstanding prospects for Thailand before the 1990's.

That however was until the current opposition decided that they could not bare to see Jeks out performing Abhisit in every respect again. Now it is Abhisit trying to destroy the Jeks again. As before they have decided to to destroy them by humiliating their famous son Thaksin in the same old way that they destroyed Thaksin and other distinguished Thais in the past.

If Khun Abhisit and Khun Suthep are successful in escaping their responsibility for the 91 murdered Thai people and defeat the Shinawatra family again we might even have to face the wrath of the Chinese. At the very least Khun Abhisit has entered into an himself or Thailand game that will have catastrophic effect on Thailand's medium term future, just as it has in the last seven years.

Although my point of view may seem hopelessly polarised you may have to face the fact that eventually the (Any) Democrat Government is not able to improve the prospects, based on their past performance, for Thailand or its working people, in the foreseeable future.

Edited November 1, 2013 by indyuk

[rubl]

Defeat the Shinawatra family again?

And here I was thinking about anti-government protests only. Why would anyone relate that with defeating the Shinawatra family?

This amnesty bill is just more proof that the PTP do not care about those who elected them
Maybe when the next election rolls around they will vote with their brain and not sell their votes for 500 baht
PTP have shown time and time again, they have two goals ... Bring home the criminal and self enrichment

I do hope that you are wrong and that there is integrity in all that the government has tried to do for the proletariat. The intent is a 100% on target in the sense that the plans as stated will revitalize what were outstanding prospects for Thailand.

That however was until the current opposition decided that they could not bare to see Jeks out performing themselves in every respect again. Now it is Abhisit trying to destroy the jeks again. As before they have decided to to destroy them by humiliating famous son Thaksin in the same old way that they destroyed other distinguished Thais in the past.

If Khun Abhisit is successful in escaping his responsibility for the 91 murdered Thai people and defeats the Shinawatra family again we might even have to face the wrath of the Chinese. At the very least Khun Abhisit has entered into himself or Thailand game that will have catastrophic affect on Thailand's medium term future, just as it has in the last seven years.

[Robby nz]

Reported on facebook that the latest move from the reds is to go back to the blood throwing again but this time at PT headquarters.

[SICHONSTEVE]

This amnesty bill is just more proof that the PTP do not care about those who elected them

Maybe when the next election rolls around they will vote with their brain and not sell their votes for 500 baht

PTP have shown time and time again, they have two goals ... Bring home the criminal and self enrichment

I do hope that you are wrong and that there is integrity in all that the government has tried to do for the proletariat. The intent is a 100% on target in the sense that the plans as stated will revitalize what were outstanding prospects for Thailand.

That however was until the current opposition decided that they could not bare to see Jeks out performing themselves in every respect again. Now it is Abhisit trying to destroy the jeks again. As before they have decided to to destroy them by humiliating famous son Thaksin in the same old way that they destroyed other distinguished Thais in the past.

If Khun Abhisit is successful in escaping his responsibility for the 91 murdered Thai people and defeats the Shinawatra family again we might even have to face the wrath of the Chinese. At the very least Khun Abhisit has entered into himself or Thailand game that will have catastrophic affect on Thailand's medium term future, just as it has in the last seven years.

Are you serious??

What a load of nonsense this is. I think that you have lived in a 'red' village for too long!!

Honestly, you don't actuall believe all of this drivel do you?

A couple of points on your last paragraph - why would the Chinese hate one of their own? and what about the 1,400 innocent citizens amongst the estimated 2,500 he murdered in his war on drugs and then there was Tak Bai with another massacre down to Thaksin. The difference between what Abhisit did and what Thaksin did was that Abhisit was doing all of this in the course of duty with the men in black para military wing of the red shirts killing innocent citizens, army and some foreigners, and Thaksin, ordering quotas of deaths from each province of anyone who they think might be involved in drugs and killing muslims in Tak Bai as he didn't understand what the troubles were all about!!

The more I think about your post.....it is either a wind-up or you are one hell of an ignorant individual!!

[waza]

This amnesty bill is just more proof that the PTP do not care about those who elected them

Maybe when the next election rolls around they will vote with their brain and not sell their votes for 500 baht

PTP have shown time and time again, they have two goals ... Bring home the criminal and self enrichment

I do hope that you are wrong and that there is integrity in all that the government has tried to do for the proletariat. The intent is a 100% on target in the sense that the plans as stated will revitalize what were outstanding prospects for Thailand.

That however was until the current opposition decided that they could not bare to see Jeks out performing themselves in every respect again. Now it is Abhisit trying to destroy the jeks again. As before they have decided to to destroy them by humiliating famous son Thaksin in the same old way that they destroyed other distinguished Thais in the past.

If Khun Abhisit is successful in escaping his responsibility for the 91 murdered Thai people and defeats the Shinawatra family again we might even have to face the wrath of the Chinese. At the very least Khun Abhisit has entered into himself or Thailand game that will have catastrophic affect on Thailand's medium term future, just as it has in the last seven years.

Are you serious??

What a load of nonsense this is. I think that you have lived in a 'red' village for too long!!

Honestly, you don't actuall believe all of this drivel do you?

A couple of points on your last paragraph - why would the Chinese hate one of their own? and what about the 1,400 innocent citizens amongst the estimated 2,500 he murdered in his war on drugs and then there was Tak Bai with another massacre down to Thaksin. The difference between what Abhisit did and what Thaksin did was that Abhisit was doing all of this in the course of duty with the men in black para military wing of the red shirts killing innocent citizens, army and some foreigners, and Thaksin, ordering quotas of deaths from each province of anyone who they think might be involved in drugs and killing muslims in Tak Bai as he didn't understand what the troubles were all about!!

The more I think about your post.....it is either a wind-up or you are one hell of an ignorant individual!!

If Khun Abhisit is successful in escaping his responsibility for the 91 murdered Thai people,

Who ever murdered anyone during the red riots is having amnesty forced on them by Thaksin, so yes Thaksin gave Abihist a get out of jail free card.

[SICHONSTEVE]

This amnesty bill is just more proof that the PTP do not care about those who elected them

Maybe when the next election rolls around they will vote with their brain and not sell their votes for 500 baht

PTP have shown time and time again, they have two goals ... Bring home the criminal and self enrichment

I do hope that you are wrong and that there is integrity in all that the government has tried to do for the proletariat. The intent is a 100% on target in the sense that the plans as stated will revitalize what were outstanding prospects for Thailand.

That however was until the current opposition decided that they could not bare to see Jeks out performing themselves in every respect again. Now it is Abhisit trying to destroy the jeks again. As before they have decided to to destroy them by humiliating famous son Thaksin in the same old way that they destroyed other distinguished Thais in the past.

If Khun Abhisit is successful in escaping his responsibility for the 91 murdered Thai people and defeats the Shinawatra family again we might even have to face the wrath of the Chinese. At the very least Khun Abhisit has entered into himself or Thailand game that will have catastrophic affect on Thailand's medium term future, just as it has in the last seven years.

Are you serious??

What a load of nonsense this is. I think that you have lived in a 'red' village for too long!!

Honestly, you don't actuall believe all of this drivel do you?

A couple of points on your last paragraph - why would the Chinese hate one of their own? and what about the 1,400 innocent citizens amongst the estimated 2,500 he murdered in his war on drugs and then there was Tak Bai with another massacre down to Thaksin. The difference between what Abhisit did and what Thaksin did was that Abhisit was doing all of this in the course of duty with the men in black para military wing of the red shirts killing innocent citizens, army and some foreigners, and Thaksin, ordering quotas of deaths from each province of anyone who they think might be involved in drugs and killing muslims in Tak Bai as he didn't understand what the troubles were all about!!

The more I think about your post.....it is either a wind-up or you are one hell of an ignorant individual!!

If Khun Abhisit is successful in escaping his responsibility for the 91 murdered Thai people,

Who ever murdered anyone during the red riots is having amnesty forced on them by Thaksin, so yes Thaksin gave Abihist a get out of jail free card.

Of what use is a get out of jail card free going to be for Abhisit? That is akin to giving free theatre tickets to someone in Azerbaijan for the latest show in London!!

Edited November 1, 2013 by SICHONSTEVE

[Robby nz]

If Khun Abhisit is successful in escaping his responsibility for the 91 murdered Thai people,

Who ever murdered anyone during the red riots is having amnesty forced on them by Thaksin, so yes Thaksin gave Abihist a get out of jail free card.

No. As I posted before.

Abhisit is the big loser in all of this as he now gets no chance to prove his innocence in court and will now always be called a murderer by PT, the reds and silly buggers who post the above Quote.

All part of the plan because if he and Suthep had been given their day in court the defense they would have mounted, including all the videos, voice recordings, photos and no doubt the money trail would without a doubt shown exactly who was responsible for all the deaths, injuries and destruction.

That's right the red leaders and their paymaster who was giving the orders.

[marcusd]

I should say Taksin is loosing it. His popularity has really dwindled and he has dug himself into a hole that he won't be able to get out off. Most poor Thais must now realise that Taksin and his family are no better than the amart or any other rich parties who have run the government in the past. So where does he go from here? Self imposed exile for the rest of his life? All that wealth could have been put to better use; think of the good life he could have had if he was not so obsessed with power?

Thais don't care of this government would not be in power. Stop giving the fools so much credit.

Look around you. Do the average Thai care?

Sent from my RM-892_apac_laos_thailand_219 using Tapatalk

[Robby nz]

Thais don't care of this government would not be in power. Stop giving the fools so much credit.

Look around you. Do the average Thai care?

The short answer to that is yes.

If you don't believe that go look on facebook where a survey told us that over 60% of Thais get their news.

Have a good look at the posts and you will see that an increasing number care.

You will see that people are coming out in Udon Thani, Korat and other parts of the red heartland.

[15Peter20]

PTP = Red Shirts 555

Now you people finally realize how spurious this always was. Disingenuous BS for simple-minded reasoning.

[Robby nz]

Is that right?

Tell us how many red shirt leaders are now PT MP's in cabinet or in Govt jobs.

When you post that list then tell us that there is no connection.

That some red factions are now waking up to how they have been use and are coming out against PT only shows what a balls up PT and their boss has made.

[ballpoint]

Is that right?

Tell us how many red shirt leaders are now PT MP's in cabinet or in Govt jobs.

When you post that list then tell us that there is no connection.

That some red factions are now waking up to how they have been use and are coming out against PT only shows what a balls up PT and their boss has made.

There were 11 red shirt leaders in parliament at the time of the vote. Seven voted for it and four abstained. Not a single one of them put their principles, or wishes of the grass roots members, on the line and voted against it. So, yes, things have moved on since the old PTP = Redshirts equation. It's very clear that for their leaders, PTP > Redshirts. It's also surprising that Thiida is remaining so quiet about all this. Surely she should be calling the troops to action? But since the paymaster is hardly likely to finance a rally against himself, maybe it isn't so surpising after all.

[Robby nz]

There were 11 red shirt leaders in parliament at the time of the vote. Seven voted for it and four abstained. Not a single one of them put their principles, or wishes of the grass roots members, on the line and voted against it. So, yes, things have moved on since the old PTP = Redshirts equation. It's very clear that for their leaders, PTP > Redshirts. It's also surprising that Thiida is remaining so quiet about all this. Surely she should be calling the troops to action? But since the paymaster is hardly likely to finance a rally against himself, maybe it isn't so surpising after all.

The connection may be getting weaker ballpoint but Thida the red shirt leader is the wife of Weng a PT MP.

A bit difficult to divorce (for want of a better word) that connection.

Come to think of it ; not a peep out of Jutaporn, wonder where he has got to?

[15Peter20]

There were 11 red shirt leaders in parliament at the time of the vote. Seven voted for it and four abstained. Not a single one of them put their principles, or wishes of the grass roots members, on the line and voted against it. So, yes, things have moved on since the old PTP = Redshirts equation. It's very clear that for their leaders, PTP > Redshirts. It's also surprising that Thiida is remaining so quiet about all this. Surely she should be calling the troops to action? But since the paymaster is hardly likely to finance a rally against himself, maybe it isn't so surpising after all.

The connection may be getting weaker ballpoint but Thida the red shirt leader is the wife of Weng a PT MP.

A bit difficult to divorce (for want of a better word) that connection.

Come to think of it ; not a peep out of Jutaporn, wonder where he has got to?

Whether or not you get a peep out of someone is solely down to the news sources you rely on. Jatuporn and Nattawut were a couple of days ago up north making speeches in front of red shirts who are opposed to amnesty. They were pictured next to signs calling for no amnesty.